ACLU: We'll sue if voters approve cross
By: North County Times | ∞
REDLANDS -- Voters decide next week if the "City of Churches" should restore the cross to the Redlands seal. When the American Civil Liberties Union threatened a costly lawsuit last year if the cross wasn't eliminated, officials decided the cross must be erased from the city logo. Many residents were outraged and voters will now decide Tuesday if the religious symbol will return.
If Measure Q wins, the ACLU will likely go to court.
"This is the first time this has happened, to my knowledge," said ACLU attorney Peter Eliasberg, who tracks crosses on seals statewide. He said it is "highly likely" a lawsuit would be filed against the city if it reinstates the cross.
"The cross is clearly unconstitutional," Eliasberg said. "It sends a message of favor for one religion over others."
Last year, the Los Angeles County Board of Supervisors voted to take a cross off the county's seal under threat of a lawsuit by the ACLU.
Scott Siegel, who led the drive to put Measure Q on Tuesday's ballot, resents that the ACLU forced the city into removing the cross from the city seal.
"What happens in this type of situation is that the ACLU threatens to sue, then the city capitulates on a cost basis, and the case is never decided on its legal merits," he said. "The ACLU is telling us that it's a foregone conclusion that we're going to lose if a suit is filed. That's just a ridiculous statement."
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Mr. Slugo wrote on Nov 7, 2005 7:52 AM:I am sooo tired of these guys hijacking the will of the people....we are in a democracy, put it to a vote and if the people approve, let it be. So 86% of Americans believe in God then why are 14% setting the rules. It's time for people to get off their rumps and stand up to these activist judges and groups. Stand up for what you believe in or we are looking at a country that can be turned down any path that 3 LOUD individules what it to go
Jesus wrote on Nov 8, 2005 3:41 PM:I am a 30 year resident of Redlands and have never heard our city referred to as "the City of Churches" until this election. Mr. Scott Siegel is an ultra conservative Christian zealot who has fanned the flames of this issue claiming it wasn't an issue until the ACLU bacame involved. That is not true because in the mid 1980's this same issue was happening with bumper stickers stating Save the Seal. I guess the Reagan 80's were more conservative. It is true that Redlands is very conservative and has dozens of Christian churches. This does not mean that there are not citizens who would prefer not to have the Cross endorsed on our city's buildings and business cards. I have no issue with a million crosses on every church we have here and have even come to terms with that gaudy 500 foot brass statue on the Mormon Temple that has lights on it 24/7. My family are Christians and are very active in local Church here. I was raised in church in Redlands. I have since become a Buddhist. I do not discuss my religion with my neigbors because I have heard too many intolerant and unenlightened comments from evangelical zealots. That isn't the reason I joined the ACLU, but I agree 100% with the position that the cross does not belong on the city logo/seal. On this election day, I hope that tolerance and brotherly love will prevail and Measure Q will be defeated. If not, I sincerely hope that Mr. Scott Seigel IS elected to city council because there will be great difficulties ahead finding money to keep Redlands running when we are found civilly liable for religious oppression. This will guaratee that Mr. Seigel will be held accountable for his actions.
George wrote on Nov 8, 2005 5:13 PM:I am also fed up with people whom find the time to do the things they want to do while many of us are fighting for our rights and theirs. Personally I feel we need to get together and file a class action suit against the ACLU for violating our rights and wasting taxpayer's money and impeach these radical judges and shove these arrogant, god hating minority groups to the wall who are demanding their rights while violating and denying ours. It's way past time we got back to the basics our fore-fathers put their fortunes and lives on the line for....America's Godly Heritage. We inherited it and its up to those with the guts and spine to get this country back on its earlier coarse. Everyone should read George Washington's Ffarewell Address. It's easy to find ...just type these very words into a search engine and you will find it. Read all of it and you will see how his warnings have come true ...and all because the people just din't keep watch over the partys and judges.
Marla wrote on Nov 8, 2005 11:04 PM:Since l947 and the Everson decision, the ACLU has been slowly stealing the religious freedoms our forefathers fought and died for. This is a group begun by atheists who hate God and their decendents are of the same mindset. Please, all of you who love freedom and believe in God, be strong in your defense of your religious liberty.
Nedd wrote on Nov 9, 2005 9:09 AM:In addition to the removal of the Redlands and LA County crosses, the ACLU also supports the removal of the cross at the Mt. Soledad Memorial in San Diego. The ACLU backs the removal of "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance. The ACLU helped lead the way to defeat Prop. 73, the parental notification act. The ACLU backs public school curricula saying two men or two women married to each other is no different than one man/one woman marriage. The judge ruling that parents have no right to tell public school teachers what their kids should or should not hear on sex in the classroom is the husband of the director of the ACLU of Southern California. How much more can Americans stomach from the ACLU before we say enough is enough? Groups like the Alliance Defense Fund and the Stop the ACLU Coalition are working hard to thwart the ACLU's agenda. But they need our help as well. Massive and sustained public awareness and mobilization are what is needed to end the ACLU's onslaught of everything good and moral. It is past time to get involved in ending this nonsense or our nation's glorious heritage will be a thing of the past. We have no choice if we are truly concerned about the future of our great country.
Xavier wrote on Nov 9, 2005 4:43 PM:What history books have you people been reading? This country was settled and eventually declared independence from the religious oppression of King George and the Church of England. I agree that many settlers came to practice their versions of Christianity, but our forefathers specifically fought to have the Bill of Rights included in our constitution before they would ratify. The First amendment states "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." The ACLU has fought many times to protect individual's rights to freely practice religion. And yes to prevent laws establishing one religious preference by the governement. Aren't you appreciative that we can have this discussion adn that our Right to free speech has not been trampled?
Ann wrote on Nov 9, 2005 5:10 PM:I believe that the ACLU should be audited and all money that they receive from the tax payers without their consent should be taken away. There should not be government funding for ACLU. Let it ruin the U.S. with private donations and also publish their donators names so the citizens of the U.S. can know who is denying the majority of the U.S. citizens of our constitutional rights and changing our AMERICAN CULTURE!
Ryan wrote on Nov 14, 2005 10:13 AM:The ACLU is not trying to deny people their rights, they are protecting them. Even if it is the will of the majority, civil liberties should not be violated. Slavery had immense popular support in the South at its time, but that didn't make it any more right. Just because the majority of Americans are Christian doesn't mean that we should set-up a theocracy. Enforcing the Bill of Rights does not interfere with your rights. It protects ALL citizens EQUALLY. Do we really want to go back to having no rights at all?
Doug wrote on Nov 16, 2005 4:42 AM:The ACLU has an insane literal-mindedness about religious symbols. European countries are far more secular than the US, but several incorporate crosses in their flags. In this case, it is a cultural affirmation, not a sign of a belief in the supernatural.
Bob wrote on Nov 23, 2005 9:10 PM: I read the constitution and there is nothing in the constitution about separation of church and state The way i read it having the ten commandments or something with god in it dose not constitute any religion the aclu is lying to the people and they are letting them get away with it get some backbone people
Robert wrote on Dec 11, 2005 3:25 PM:The ACLU is attacking with one of the most basic tactics. They are trying to scare the Christian majority. If we allow them to keep us from standing for what we believe in, then they will be allowed to change our nation without anyone to oppose them. Do you want to sit around and watch the ACLU turn this case into a ploy to destroy the Christian voice? If we don't get involved in out communities, then the ACLU will be able to enact its agenda: gay marriages, abortion, ect... Our country is at a major crossroads now. I can only hope that others can see what I can as a sixteen-year-old.
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