mark wrote on Jun 21, 2006 10:42 AM:This is just the latest brainstorm some desk jokey safe in Washington has come up with to win the hearts and minds of the Iraqi insurgents. We tried giving them soccer balls and goats. They took them then planted IED's. We built them schools and vaccinated their children, they became the eyes and ears of the insurgency. Even cold hard cash has failed to win them over. Maybe if we grab up some low level Soldiers and Marines, ram them through the slipshod military justice system, then execute them. The insurgents will have to acknowledge our fair mindedness and then they will "like us", really "like us"! Won't they? Hey it's worth a try we have nothing of importance to lose, right?

Chief In Iraq wrote on Jun 21, 2006 10:58 AM:Stop using us a scapegoats. Look whats happening to us. I'm over in Iraq in the triangle. Now we are believing stories from the very people who sell us out daily. I wish you could really see the bull we go through. I had two friends who were killed by the very people we were training who turned out to be the enemy. Over here is kill or be killed. Let us open up a can of whoop butt and finish this business. Those young Marines were doing their duty. There is no fairness. You can't call time out or a foul. Lets just ruin these young Marines lives. Hell they have live with this experience for the rest of their lives. There is no easier way to put it. Or should I create a picture perfect facade as say war is fair. Those young Marines and the Navy Corpman are scared and don't think for one minute it will go away with time. I still here and I think about the death, loss of friends and stupidity of our leaders.

Claymore wrote on Jun 21, 2006 11:31 AM:I feel sorry for all our Military. We ask them to kill the enemy and when they do,-- we hold them for murder. Anything our soldiers do to protect themselves and others from these animals has my full support. It seems ok for the "insurgents" to behead our people but we must not upset them. What's wrong with this picture? What's wrong with our Country? If any Iraqi poses a danger,-- kill them.

Quit your sniveling, Chief, its unbecoming of a career Navy Man wrote on Jun 21, 2006 12:07 PM:Let due process take its course. If they are innocent, they deserve an apology, if not some legal remedy...but if they are guilty, may I suggest dooming them to rot in Gitmo. We have avowed to fight a war on terrorism, not act as terrorists ourselves! America always must take the high moral road. Chief, nobody is using you as a scapegoat...do your duty man, that's all we can ask, all we expect, and all we appreciate. However, shipmate, if you violate the often distasteful, but appropriate rules of war, don't look for any special consideration for the world or the American people, or even your shipmates.

Look Here wrote on Jun 21, 2006 12:11 PM:At this juncture what are our service members doing in Irak anyway? Bush keeps saying that "when the Irakis stand up, we will stand down". Well, what are they supposed to stand up for? Can't Irakis man check points and risk their lives like our guys do? I mean, how much training does that take? Oh, it does take guts which is something the Irakis lack!!

Peter wrote on Jun 21, 2006 12:30 PM:We in American must come to grips with the fact that some people will never be our friends. They will always want to kill us.. It's time to level the playing field, and kill before being killed..... Sad, but I don't think this policy will ever happen... One way to quickly solve this problem is for our boys in uniform to vote with their feet and let policy makers carry the rifeles in the next war.

Two young soldiers killed.... wrote on Jun 21, 2006 12:44 PM:By the Iraqi security forces they were training. This happened some time ago. The military didn't just cover it up they made up bald faced lies about it. I'm sure they felt it served the higher purpose of advancing American and Iraqi relations. The truth only came out because one of the families would not quit their sniveling and just let it go.

Harry wrote on Jun 21, 2006 1:50 PM:It is time to come home from this mess! I don't care if you call it "cut and run" or admit a mistake and a failed policy. It is virtually impossible for a foriegn government to "win" a civil war. The Iraqi government wanted to grant amnesty to insurgents as long as they hadnt killed any Iraqi's, they actually stipulated that killing Americans was ok (and that is the government the purple fingers elected and Bush brags about.) It is time to come home and I say, "Run" don't walk home.

Harry wrote on Jun 21, 2006 1:55 PM:It is time to come home from this mess! I don't care if you call it "cut and run" or "admit a mistake" and a failed policy. The Iraqi government wanted to grant amnesty to insurgents as long as they hadnt killed any Iraqi's, they actually stipulated that killing Americans was ok (and that is the government the purple fingers elected and Bush brags about.) It is time to come home and I say, "Run" don't walk home. No more deaths, no more public relations shots for the President. The broken bodies of our captive soldiers are reason enough to come home--they died for "weapons of mass destruction" and for Carl Rove's campaign stratagy. If Republicans need this to win elections--shame on them! I am a Patriot and I say, bring our boys home.

Ambrose wrote on Jun 21, 2006 2:35 PM:We are supposed to take the word of people who are out to kill us about what happened in Iraq? When I was in Korea, we even had 7 year old kids trying to booby trap our jeeps. We are losing the war AND our country to a smarter enemy. "We have met the enemy, and the enemy is us." ( I don't remember who said it, --but it's true.

It was Walt Kelly (Pogo cartoonist), Ambrose wrote on Jun 21, 2006 2:49 PM:He also said, "God is not dead...he's just unemployed!"

Commanders wrote on Jun 21, 2006 3:06 PM:I would like to see the so called "Commanders on the Ground" give a press conference every four weeks without Bush, Cheney or Rove being present and update the nation as to the true situation on the ground and the plan for the next four weeks and so on. One of the questions I would ask is "When you say the Irak army is not ready, what do you mean and what standards are being applied to make this determination". Has anyone figured out that it is quite possible that Irak will never meet US Military standards and, therefore, we are doomed to be the Irak security force for the next 100 years at a cost to the US of $400,000,000,000.00 per year. This money we must borrow, how are we to pay it back? This could bring our nation down. Bring our troops home and let Irak and their people finish their civil war, I'm happy to watch how that develops on CNN.

Scott wrote on Jun 21, 2006 3:10 PM:Put these stories in your recruitment commercials Navy and Marine corps. Let these kids know exactly how you will stand behind them. ... pay and risking your life isn't enough now you have to worry about being stabbed in the back by the brass.

Pogo wrote on Jun 21, 2006 3:19 PM:'We have met the enemy and he is us.' - How can we ever combat the Islamofascist terrorism that seeks to enslave and destroy Western Civilization when American military leaders and and self-serving politicians cannibalize our all volunteer armed forces who are tasked with vanquishing our enemies?

John wrote on Jun 21, 2006 3:22 PM:We sent these kids to stop Saddam from using WMD's - there were none. Then we kept them there to liberate Iraq and build a nation in our image. Our leaders told us the Iraqis were better off than they had been under Saddam's rule. Better off dead? Our leaders sent our troops back into hell, constantly finding new reasons for the war, until they broke down and killed and robbed out of desparation. When we allow troops to kill in this way, it kind of blows holes in the idea that we are making them free over there. Why not leave and let the Iraqis take over their own country?

Dave wrote on Jun 21, 2006 3:24 PM:How about justice those responsible for the two soldiers who were recently kidnapped, tortured, and executed? Why should we mete out justice against our own people when atrocities like these go without punishment?

There was/is nothing: wrote on Jun 21, 2006 3:27 PM:Good that will come of this war. It was/is a mistake. We are going to pay for it big time. Just now seeing what toll it takes on our brave men and women. Not one of the suit leadership has been in combat yet they send our young folks to die. Wake up and put them in jail.

Randy wrote on Jun 21, 2006 3:31 PM:Has this entire process gone mad! They are butchering and debasing our young soldiers and we are treating Zarqwai's body humanely and trying our guys for murder!?! Is that really our concern here? Where is George Patton when we need him? It is time to show these Islamic rats the error of their ways! We need to start covering them in pig's blood.

2 Randy wrote on Jun 21, 2006 4:53 PM:Pig's blood? I thought we were over there to liberate and spread democracy - death and destruction. The process hasn't gone mad. It was never sane to begin with. The idea that we could kill our way into the hearts of the Iraqi people should have been flushed down the tubes a long time ago - along with Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Pearl, Chalabi and other assorted neo-con, chicken hawks. They have brought evil upon our land.

Jay wrote on Jun 21, 2006 5:00 PM:I am pleasantly surprised by some of the truly intelligent remarks here. I had expected just the retrofascists to espose their "eye for an eye" rhetoric (though there are of course those). Finally this paper is printing some of the more sensible remarks instead of the brain-dead warmongerers who think American murderers are getting a bum deal and Islamic terrorists are somehow worse. Isn't it the same? Besides, given our history of slapping the wrists of our soldiers guilty of atrocities, who really expects these guys to be found guilty or if so, pay a severe price?

US Citizen in Townsite wrote on Jun 21, 2006 5:12 PM:How many friggin shovels does it take to bury an IED? I seriously question the accuracy of the investigation as a whole since blanket charges are being thrown over the whole group. I hope the Lawyers defending our soldiers have access to as many resources and peer-professional help to fight these charges successfully. See you at Saturday's Rally with my donation outside the gates of Camp Pendleton.

Tony wrote on Jun 21, 2006 5:28 PM:Let's say gang members in compton kill a couple of cops. The cop's buddies are angry and go into some random house in compton, pull out some unlucky guy who is totally unconnected to the cop killing, and shoot him to make themselves feel better. Would you expect those cops to go to jail? Stop lumping all Iraqis together. Not everyone who lives in Compton is a gang member. Some are decent, law abiding people. Same goes for over there.

puffball wrote on Jun 21, 2006 5:34 PM:Cheney won't let the troops leave, because Halliburton is making so much money from them! every overpriced substandard meal puts money in the Hawks' pockets. not to mention the equipment, ammunition, support services, etc. take a look at who is profiting from this "war". i feel bad for the troops; they volunteered, but not for this. it's up to *US* in 2008, people.

charles wrote on Jun 21, 2006 5:47 PM:I am willing to wait to see what happened, but unless this was an egregious case of some boys simply being vicious without a cause, I am opposed to any sort of trial or conviction. They work hard, they are in harm's way. They are young. They are under stress. I think that if we put our young sons in these conditions without experience, then sometimes they will make mistakes. We should not attack them for this and ruin their lives. If that is how this starts to go I will be in favor of passing a law that an indictment of a group of people for murder or other related acts will require an indictment of derelection of duty all the way up to the 2 star level -- on principle. Then lets see if they want to investigate and lets see if they want to stay in Iraq.

Mark wrote on Jun 21, 2006 5:58 PM:Have confidence in the integrity of the investigative and UCMJ process. Marines operate according to rules of engagement, rules of war and military discipline. Our Marines are held accountable to a higher standard than the enemy because they come from a civilized society where the rule of law prevails. Due process must uphold the integrity and honor of our Armed Forces by seeking the truth.

Between Iraq and a hard place wrote on Jun 21, 2006 6:14 PM:Support our troups. End the occupation of Iraq. Vote Democratic in November

Thoughts wrote on Jun 21, 2006 7:32 PM:Glad to see some support for what I posted earlier. We are better than the thugs and have no use for thugs in our military. Let the courts martial handle it. I think Rumsfeld is a putz. Go with everything you have or don't go at all.

Scapegoats wrote on Jun 21, 2006 8:03 PM:Nothing more ... nothing less!

a pack of lips now wrote on Jun 21, 2006 8:35 PM:This is pure bull, charging soldiers with murder in a war zone is tantamount to issuing speeding tickets at the Indianapolis Raceway. I say charge Rumy and Cheney with fraud and deception of the highest order.

Warner wrote on Jun 21, 2006 9:03 PM: The problem was the pre-trial treatment the men were getting. They were suspected of committing crimes but there was not enough evidence to give probable cause for charges, in civilian courts indictments, to be brought against the men. The Marines and one sailor were held and shackled, as if they were guilty. We the people were very upset by that treatment of the young men. We are not lawyers but we can smell something rotten when it is there. We know enough to ask questions. We also know that the Marine Corps brass works to orders, but it would behove who ever is in charge to hold an evening press conference and tell the public in detail the truth about what is going on. The Marine Corps' credibility is in question and their recruiting program is at risk. And for pete's sake, now that charges have been brought, treat the men accordingly, tell the public the truth and save the Marine Corps' day.

Harry wrote on Jun 21, 2006 9:19 PM:How will people feel if the facts turn out to be that these Marines barged into a civilian home, dragged the father out, in front of his terrorized family and then shot him and then to conceal their crime, staged his death scene to make it look as if he had been planting IEDs. I suggest that we wait for the evidence and then decide if they are just misunderstood and framed soldiers or if maybe they committed a war crime. I do agree that a President and Attorney General who justify torture and who call the Geneva Conventions of War, "Quaint" set a tone in which war crimes seem "ok". We are a country without any moral compass or standards. The readiness of the public to condone what ever may have happened is chilling. Just imagine if tonight three men broke into your home and dragged you away from your family and shot you...would you expect the perpertrators would have a rally in support of their actions.....IF It Happened...this is horrendous. I am willing to wait, but I am not willing to condon criminal behavior in the name of patriotism.

Not So Fast wrote on Jun 21, 2006 9:56 PM:Bad beginnings (farce) have horrific endings (tragedy). We haven't seen the worst, yet. One thing history teaches us is that we don't learn from history. Overreaching military empires have all collapsed. Don't hold your breath assuming this one won't.

Phil wrote on Jun 21, 2006 11:45 PM:Where was support like this for we Marines during Vietnam?

Harkadahl UK wrote on Jun 22, 2006 3:04 AM:The US army has been put in an impossible position by cowardly business-politicians who have never served in war themselves. The whole country has been duped into fighting a bogus war that improves nothing and worsens much. As the unprovoked invader and occupier of someone else's sovereign country, the US must now show a higher standard of moral conduct than ever before. The marines in question must get a fair trial and justice according to the result of the trial. If there is not enough evidence then they must be released. Similarly, if there is not enough evidence to try 400 odd people in Gitmo then they must also be set free. Is this a country of laws or bigotry, xenophobia and fear?

Rockbiter wrote on Jun 22, 2006 8:20 AM:Our boys are being set up to take a fall like sacrificial lambs being led to the slaughter. They're being prepped to atone for the evil sins of the fathers in WDC that took un into this HELL HOLE w/o legal justification. Join us this SATURDAY, and every Saturday (rally begins at TEN am at south gate in Oceanside...take CP exit off I 5 and proceed to main gate w/posters, flags, family and friends) in the forseeable future to protest the hypocricy of these court martials of our brave POW's at CP. Seems to many of us the ones that should be shackled and court martialed on on the East Coast! Help us DEFEND THE DEFENDERS! If this can happen to them, it could happen to anyone else. Bush's policy on this war is the same as his open borders policy w/Mexico that is DESTROYING our nation before our very eyes. This nation is headed into some very turbulent waters.

Gunny James wrote on Jun 22, 2006 8:50 AM:This had to be the strangest Article 32 investigation ever. Pre-hearing confinement in shackles; a coercive statement process that we aren't allowed to use a Gitmo. Quite a denial of civil rights and liberties going on here - sure a good thing the military is exempt, otherwise the FBI would be all over the Pendleton JAG. From Lt. Pantano's case to this case makes me glad I'm not serving now. Lessening the confinement standard after charging is a dead giveaway. Maku Ali Baba, indeed.

Semper Fi wrote on Jun 22, 2006 9:01 AM:I'm a former Marine, I served in Iraqi Freedom. Do I agree with this war? Yes, and no. Yes I believe in trying to make a better world for the Iraqi's. No I don't believe in the propiganda that surrounds this war. Here is what I see through this situation. you have men, going to war for 6 to 12 months. In that time, they are expected to perform their duties perfectly. I'll tell you this much, that doesn't happen that way. I see these men, they probably carried out an order from a superior and are now taking the fall for that superior (probably a desk jocky officer). I've seen this happen before, and here it is happening again. While what these men did was wrong, I blame the military for it. not them.

Blue Yonder wrote on Jun 23, 2006 7:34 PM:I'm old Air Force from from the 60s. I am deeply saddened by what is happening to our troops. What terrible dangers they face with terrible consequences: over 2000 killed, over 18,000 horribly wounded. I don't blame them much for what they do under the pressure of a place gone mad. Our "leaders" put them there; let them sit in the courtrooms. Let them face the accused. Make them sit on the juries. Make them drive the streets in Iraq.

paul wrote on Jun 24, 2006 10:03 AM:Appreciate your coverage of the Patriots at the Camp Pendelton gates who demonstrate support for our troops: "The Pendelton Eight." Keep it up. Can you pubish an "accurate" count of their numbers please? Thank you. I ask all Americans to come to the aid of these brave young men and contribute to their defense fund(s).

To Phil wrote on Jun 24, 2006 12:27 PM:I apologize to all Vietnam veterans but I was only a teenager and didn't know what was happening. I have Vietnam veterans as friends and family. I am ashamed but we should have learned by our mistakes. I stand beside these young brave men whether they or right or wrong. I do not have the slighest idea what they went through and I am not to judge. They were there for a reason and I will come to their aid. Please let us know what we can do. What would their accusers have done if roles reversed. Plenty of hind-sight.

MarKorVet wrote on Aug 22, 2006 9:36 PM:Marines:It is time to hand in your weapons and take a walk when your own commanders wont "close ranks" for you!!