Simon Says: wrote on Aug 13, 2006 7:37 AM: It seems to me that we go out of our way to complicate things. First we must realize that if everybody were doing their jobs from the beginning, as the current immigration laws prescribe, we wouldn't be in this mess. Now the republican and democrats both want to change the immigration laws to feather their own nest; i.e.,for the most part - the Republicans want to please global business, and the Democrats want to swell their voting ranks. Well, me and my cohorts want people to start doing their job, forget about making new laws, and enforce the ones on the books now. People who tell us what is wrong with the current laws are really telling us how the laws don't fit their agenda and their plans for their pocketbooks. At the rate we earn and spend the absents of the 12 billion growth mention in the article above over the next ten years will not be missed. And, on the other hand, if we start enforcing current immigration laws we will have dodged the loss of the 50 billion a year. So, lets stop fooling around and start doing our jobs. I have done my part here, now you guys get busy.

El Guero wrote on Aug 13, 2006 7:39 AM:Much misinformation here. Not so much in the report itself as in the analyses and conclusions of groups like the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, which claim that legalizing illegal immigrants 'would significantly increase the number of people filing federal tax returns.' So? As people like Rector of the Heritage Foundation point out, filing a tax return doesn't equate to collecting income tax revenue because most illegal immigrants qualify for a exemptions like the Earned Income Tax Credit. And 'bringing them out of the shadows' with legal residency status and 'a path to citizenship' also entitles them to additional subsidies. And Melissa Daar of People for the American Way is correct that 'House Republicans are trying to portray immigration as a one-way situation where only immigrants benefit.' That's because it's true.

Cost Schmost wrote on Aug 13, 2006 8:15 AM:Even if we could determine, beyond all doubt, that the illegal immigrants were benefitting our economy, their presence here would still be ILLEGAL, yes? Or does money make all that unpleasant illegal business go away? Our laws are not simply being ignored, they are being STOMPED on. Whatever boons to our economy the illegal alien population might be bringing does not change the fact that they are criminals.

Send them all back: wrote on Aug 13, 2006 8:28 AM:Then we'll see who does the real hard work here. It won't be americuns.

Not Stupid wrote on Aug 13, 2006 9:12 AM:Legalizing all of the illegals will cost taxpayers money - money we are tired of giving to that black hole called a government. Stop pandering taxpayers like we don't have a brain. The majority of taxpayers don't want the illegals made legal. Plain and simple. This is a democracy where those who vote legally are supposed to make the final decision. Let the voting public decide, not those bums in Washington who are only looking after their own behinds!

Ron wrote on Aug 13, 2006 9:31 AM:Here's how you know that illegals will cost more than they provide to the economy. Most simply do not make enough to provide all of the basic needs to themselves, and their families. This is true of all low income people, U.S. citizen, or non-citizen, it is not simply an illegal vs. legal issue. It's a money issue. When you only make $8/hour, and have a family of 4, you are barely scraping the bottom. So, programs like welfare, WIC, AFDC, community clinics, and emergency rooms become part of your way of survival. We have always seen this trend in immigrants. The parents come, usually with only manual labor abilities. Their children become more educated, and their children's children continue to gain. Eventually, there is equillibrium, but it is 2-4 generations down the road. For anyone to say that illegals are paying "their" freight, is simply not seeing all of the subsidizing the taypayers provide.

Skip wrote on Aug 13, 2006 9:43 AM:Regardless of what this report says: the question should be how many more can we support. It is about overpopulation. Does anyone think the Illegals will stop coming when we have enough. A few hard working Illegal Aliens families are cute, but now we are talking about millions and millions of third world impoverished people coming here, with no end in sight. The open borders advocates would have us turn into a third world country, just like the ones they are fleeing from. If you don't believe me, then just take a drive around East Los Angeles sometime and see what it has become.

AlegalAlien wrote on Aug 13, 2006 9:56 AM:What most Americans resent is the legalization of a criminal act. We had laws in place regarding immigration that illegals blatantly violated, the federal government underfunded and that were not enforced. Those that did follow the rules are insensed that breaking the law would be rewarded with citizenship. It would be impossible for illegal aliens to pay back taxes in an amount equal to what they have already cost the American taxpayer. As a result, there can be no financially net benefit when we're already starting out in the hole!

Press 1 for English wrote on Aug 13, 2006 11:02 AM:Yeah sure, like the illegals are going to be honest about paying "back taxes". Every one of them is going to claim he/she just came to the US yesterday and never worked. They came here knowing they were breaking immigration laws; no sensible person would think that just granting them citizenship will turn them into law-abiding people.

Ron wrote on Aug 13, 2006 11:14 AM:What do you expect from the NCT. Just another Edward Sifuentes "poor Mexican" essay. If these people are such an asset then why are their native countries in such states of turmoil and poverty and why should we support them coming to our country to destroy it too?

Mike wrote on Aug 13, 2006 11:20 AM:After reading the recent article that researchers disagree on illegal immigrant cost-benefit analysis, it should be obvious to any reasonable American that both political parties are just “running out the clock” on the mid-term elections by playing the old shill game, hide the pea. Earlier this year the Country experienced hundreds of thousands of illegals marching through many major cities waving Mexican flags, chanting in Spanish, “yes we can”, and threatening to shut down the seaports and airports in Los Angeles if they didn’t get they way. This created a massive backlash that resulted in their “handlers” instructing them to switch to American flags instead, and a political ploy in Washington promising that they would pass meaningful changes to finally secure the borders. Well, summer is almost over and nothing has changed. The House [to their credit] is demanding border security first, while the Senate and the Administration still demands a guest worker plan, eventual citizenship for 12-15 million people, and then the same for their second tier family members [mother, father, siblings, cousins, aunts and uncles]. If the Administration plan is approved, the Heritage Foundation estimates the number of additional immigrants from Mexico will increase the number granted citizenship by 50-70 million over the next 20 years and will virtually bankrupt the welfare and healthcare systems in our Country. Unfortunately, by even raising these issues, concerned Americans are immediately branded a xenophobe. How bad must it get before we acknowledge that we are destroying our education, healthcare and penal systems and our children and grandchildren will pay the ultimate price in the future? If you think my comments are overblown, just consider the following statistics that were published recently in a Los Angeles Times article, hardly a conservative paper: 40% of all workers in L.A. County (L.A. County has 10 million people) are working for cash and not paying taxes. This was because they are predominantly illegal immigrants, working without a green card. 95% of warrants for murder in Los Angeles are for illegal aliens. 75% of people on the most wanted list in Los Angeles are illegal aliens. Over 60% of all births in Los Angeles County are to illegal aliens from Mexico on Medi-Cal, whose births were paid for by taxpayers. Nearly 25% of all inmates in California detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally. The FBI reports half of all gang members in Los Angeles are most likely illegal aliens from south of the border. Nearly 60% of all occupants of HUD properties are illegal. 21 radio stations in L.A. are Spanish speaking. Add to this, a finance study just completed and reported 2 weeks ago by the L.A. County Board of Supervisors that stated, “The County is facing an eminent catastrophe due to the financial burden of illegal immigration”. The article went on to say that the cost of just social services [welfare and healthcare] and public protection [legal system] is costing the County $1 billion annually. In addition, while the enormous financial impact on L.A. Unified School District was not factored in, they acknowledged over 70% of the students are Hispanic, and over 50% have parents that are “undocumented” and the district is collapsing under the weight. Less than 2% of illegal aliens are picking our crops, but 29% are on welfare. Over 70% of the United States annual population growth (and over 90% of California, Florida, and New York) results from immigration. The cost of immigration to the American taxpayer in 1997 was, (after subtracting taxes immigrants pay), a NET $70 BILLION a year, [Professor Donald Huddle, Rice University]. When you factor in all of the costs listed above, PLUS the rise of explosive rise of third world diseases [antibiotic resistant TB, Hepatitis B&C and Leprosy] along with the minimal level of taxes paid [even if on the books] by very low-income “uneducated” workers with large families, I respectfully take issue with Edward Sifuentes, the article’s author. The facts are clear to anyone willing to review them. Using any acceptable cost to benefit analysis, American hospitals, jails, social welfare system and ultimately citizens are the big loser in this debate.

gordonius wrote on Aug 13, 2006 11:43 AM:I remember a time when San Diego County was held up as an example of cooperation and cross border good relations....where did all these bigots come from? Do we have more of a white native born problem than an illegal alien one?

Larry wrote on Aug 13, 2006 11:46 AM:Pogo said, 'we have met the enemy face and we see that he is us.' Procrastination, denial is a personal destruction and tragedy And so is it universally. So, that explains the problem. What are we going to do about it? Ask more questions, do more studies? And still the destruction goes on. Even 'this' is an existential experience. As another has said, "Remember the Alamo!"

Marilyn wrote on Aug 13, 2006 1:31 PM:Congratulations on an informative, balanced article, Mr. Sifuentes. Isn't it unusual that North County has a very strong labor market and economy, yet it also has a large number of immigrants? Is it possible that immigrants actually create jobs? If they were documented, perhaps they would demand higher wages and pay more taxes.

Discriminant1 wrote on Aug 13, 2006 2:04 PM:Simon is right.

Dan (Temecula) wrote on Aug 13, 2006 3:03 PM: Look at some of the facts now with legal and illegal immigrants, and you will find they make up over 70% of our prison population here in the state of California. What about the majority who get welfare, wic, medical-medicaid, and other social services offered are taken up mostly by illegals, and legal immigrants. Now if we legalize millions more who only get by because they live 40 to a house they will qualify for earned income tax wage, and get a thousand per child. That is not contributing that is taking. My x who is a stripper doesn't pay 1 red cent in taxes all year long, but because she is an independant contracter (what a joke) she get's $2,500 from us taxpayers because of earned income credit, and because she can file her earnings to her benefit, and write everything off. Well this is a little off the beaten pass but its a point to make that with so many dependants we will end up carrying all the new citizens of Mexico, and if we are going to end up doing that I say we take Mexico from them, and give property to all the American citizens who have carried illegals on there back for years now. This issue is so unfair to people like myself and countless others who have been robbed by are government, and illegals, and we are not going to take it anymore!!!!!!!!!!!

RonExplains the situation Correctly wrote on Aug 13, 2006 3:20 PM:Exactly and precisely the way it has been, is, and always will be until such time the cost of housing and medical care is commensurate to the legally defined minimum wage earnings or vice versa. Most citizens scale the socio-economic ladder within the geographic confines of their own country. Only here in the USA, California in particular with Chicago a CLOSE second, do unlimited opportunities exist to pull one-self up by their BOOTStraps (bottom feeders like myself) along with a multifold platform of social welfare programs available as a safety net until such time one gets a comfortable foothold in the upward mobility ladder. Many well heeled (monetary)foreignors, legal and illegal, cross our borders seeking political asylum and a leisurely non-committed lifestyle. They immidiately proceed to freely partake of our generously funded by the TAX PAYER Social Welfare programs including Supplemental Security(Welfare) which often times exceeds the monthly Social Security check of seniors who have paid into the system their entire lives,

Counter wrote on Aug 13, 2006 3:44 PM:I wonder how many Supporters of open borders would be willing to ?put their money where their mouths are?. Lets have a family of six non-English speaking immigrants come to live in the home of a Supporter of legalizing immigrants. The wage earner for the immigrant family will turn over his pay to the Supporter. The Supporter will provide all costs for food, housing, clothes, education, health, auto insurance, transportation, (the total cost), for the entire immigrant family. Are there any immigration Supporters out there willing to find out how long he can survive under these conditions?

Raoul wrote on Aug 13, 2006 5:02 PM:Who is the idiot that states "70" percent of convicts in California are immigrants, legal and illegal and where does he get that information? He can't vecause it is simply untrue. The vast majority of convicts in CAlifornia are antive born Americans. ONLY 12 percent of California state prison inmates are illegal aliens, epriod, end of discussion. Source: Department of Corrections. Anyone who makes stupid claims like this man is equal to the moron from the Heritage Foundation who makes even wilder statements without any scientific or census and truth basis in fact whatsoever.

Me Geronimo-How wrote on Aug 13, 2006 5:06 PM:I am racist because my land was stolen from my people by the white man. I am racist because my people were slaughterd by the white man. I am racist because the white man never kept there word by breaking every treaty written. I am racist because my people that were left, were moved to other territories. I am racist because the white man invented scalping. I am racist because the white man burned our villages. I am racist because the white man stole our horses. I am racist because the white man killed our buffalo for their skin only. I am a racist because the white man was the true illegal immigrant. Factual is not racial. Realism is not racism.

john wrote on Aug 13, 2006 5:19 PM:I wish people would quit calling them immigrants,First they broke into our home,(America),than they stold benefits that Americans should be able to get,but cant because the system is overtaxed by these thieves.Call it what it is, Criminal aliens.And the politicians pandering for votes are nothing more than prostitutes.Just plain talk is all thats needed.

Skip wrote on Aug 13, 2006 6:58 PM:A Chevrolet Suburban carrying 11 people suspected of being undocumented migrants ran off Interstate 70, in Utah, on Saturday, throwing passengers into the desert and killing four people. A fifth injured person was not expected to survive. Happens almost every day now. Hardly even makes the news, except we keep paying for this, and our borders are broken.

BVV wrote on Aug 13, 2006 7:56 PM:Do your own analysis. The house on your street where it looks like dozens of people live [judging by the traffic in and out and the cars parked up and down the street and on the lawn]. Do the taxes on this house pay for the sewage, water, schools, police, library, hospital, and all social/physical infrastructures that are used? Those rates are based on the average persons per household [PPH]. The US Census shows that Escondido has 3.4 PPH, Vista & San Marcos 3.03 PPH, CA average 2.57 PPH, US average 2.59 PPH. There are about 2.5 million ESL students in our 6.5 million student population. Do their parent's low income and often off-book income really pay for all of the basic and special services these millions of students require? That's not county the special outreach for immigrant parents and free breakfasts and lunches. This is not rocket science. BTW - California has the largest number of immigrants - legal, illegal, refugee. BTW2 in 2005 Mexicans working in the US sent home $20 billion. This year it is $24billion. That is money that is not spent or invested in our local communities. Wage suppression because of unfair competition from workers who will work for a dime on the dollar of a decent wage, affects every blue collar worker. There is no doubt that statistics can be twisted to make any point. But how are you coming on your common sense research? Oh, BTW3 according to the US Dept. of Labor new immigrants got 40% of the new jobs created in 2005. A significant percent of those are illegals. 813755p

To Geronimo wrote on Aug 13, 2006 8:33 PM:You will never get my land. And if every treaty has been broken, why do you have the reservation, the casinos, and Indian government.

Skip wrote on Aug 13, 2006 8:51 PM:A Chevrolet Suburban carrying 11 people suspected of being undocumented migrants ran off Interstate 70, in Utah, on Saturday, throwing passengers into the desert and killing four people. A fifth injured person was not expected to survive. Happens almost every day now. Hardly even makes the news, except we keep paying for this and our borders are broken.

I don't understand Marilyn: wrote on Aug 13, 2006 8:53 PM: Are the "immigrants" you wrote about illegal non-citizens or legal non-citizens? It sound to me that you are afraid to specify illegal non-citizens in your suport of the criminals.

To Raoul: wrote on Aug 13, 2006 9:03 PM:I would say that the california prison population is about 40% Hispanic, and of those the majority are Illegal Aliens. The incarceration of convicted illegal aliens in state prisons and jails and uncompensated medical outlays for health care provided to illegal aliens each amounted to about $1.4 billion annually. The incarceration costs did not include judicial expenditures or the monetary costs of the crimes committed by illegal aliens that led to their incarceration. Try this : http://www.fulldisclosure.net/flash/VideoBlogs/VideoBlog20.php

To Dan (Temecula) wrote on Aug 13, 2006 9:13 PM:Join my Yahoo Group CLOSEBORDERS, to get more up to date information.

OOPS wrote on Aug 13, 2006 9:34 PM:I meant to say Join our Yahoo Group "closebordersgroup" to get up to date information on the Immigration and Overpopulation Crisis in America

Illegals ruin America wrote on Aug 13, 2006 9:38 PM:We are getting millions of unskilled, uneducated people who invade the United States illegally. Of course they cost us billions of dollars and also lower the quality of schools and medical care and put fear in citizen's lives with their crimes. 2% of illegals work in agriculture and many of them could be replaced by machines. The rest of the illegals offer NO benefits. They are dead weight on American society and a blight on the United States.

To Mike wrote on Aug 14, 2006 12:04 AM:I totally agree with you, but some of those numbers you throw belong to Urban Legends. Even Snopes.COM has a page on those stats. R/ Skip

WHO WAS HERE FIRST? wrote on Aug 14, 2006 12:24 AM:The next time a Mexican tell you that they were here first, you need to inform the uninformed individual of the truth. The link that follows is a BBC report on EUROPEANS that were here BEFORE the so-called Indians. I know it is not what you have been told, it was surprising to me as well. http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/2002/columbus.shtml

El Guero wrote on Aug 14, 2006 8:03 AM:I didn't know that 'idiot' and 'moron' were respectful words to use about other readers. Would someone please check Raoul's papers and see if he's here legally?

ToMike wrote on Aug 14, 2006 1:30 PM:I don't see how LAUSD was able to claim that over 50% of their students had an "undocumented" parent. It probably is true, but to the best of my knowledge, no public school in California is allowed to ask about immigration status. This is the biggest disservice to the taxpayer since education suffers the greatest impact from the federal government's failure to enforce immigration law. These costs are borne by the state and local taxpayer. How can Californians have an intelligent debate on the costs of illegal immigration if the we can't even quantify the biggest cost?

Facts wrote on Aug 14, 2006 2:29 PM:Maybe Raoul could go to http://www.sdsheriff.net/home/ and see where 8 out of the 10 most wanted criminals in San Diego County are Latino. One White, one Iranian, and 8 Latino. But I suppose since this would not be to his liking, he would just say they were a bunch of stupid idiots and morons.

fedup wrote on Aug 14, 2006 3:38 PM:And, just to give everyone something else to think about, the fine folks at the Border Patrol do NOT report the numbers of ILLEGALS that have been detected crossing the border (detected with cameras, motion sensors, etc.) when they do not have anyone to respond to the crossers. So, the published numbers of "suspected ILLEGALS" in the country is farther from the true numbers than one would think.

Common Sense! wrote on Aug 15, 2006 7:51 AM:To Mike...well done blog! It is factual and to the point. Now if only those infected w/their own self righteousness, hate and bigoted bias and agenda would open up their minds and come to terms w/the Mexican Invasion as it REALLY stands today, as you so cogently outlined in your brief. Thx!

About Mikes figures.. wrote on Aug 15, 2006 9:23 AM:If they are even HALF true.. does it matter?? Isnt that reason enough for any reasonable person to accept that illegal immigration has to stop ad these people NEED to be deported? The 14th amendment HAS GOT TO BE REPEALED!

obvious wrote on Aug 15, 2006 2:43 PM:Raise you hand if you are unclear about the meaning of the word ILLEGAL!!!

Too Obvious wrote on Aug 24, 2006 2:16 PM:Raise your hand if you are unclear about the meaning of the 14th Amendment!!!

Dsand wrote on Nov 14, 2006 7:34 PM:Excellent article. It is very difficult to find statistics to battle against the onslaught of alien haters out there. So much bad information generated by a people trying to generate fear in people that don't know better. I wish there was some way to get California to publish where it's welfare goes, how many illegals are in our schools, how much money is given to house illegal aliens and how much is spent on medical care for them.

In responce to Dsand wrote on Sep 16, 2007 2:25 PM:It doesn't matter if it's $1. That's $1 that Americans shouldn't have to pay.

Carlos wrote on Mar 6, 2008 8:49 PM:To all my fellow Latinos,

How about this for a long term
solution lets all go back to whatever
latin country we come from and take our
country back from all this evil people
who run our country for generations and have no soul or even a drop of good
blood in thier system. They have done
nothing but rub us of everything that
our forefathers have struggle for.

They are the one to be blame
and nobody els why we are all in this
predicament.

I wish my hero Pancho Villa and
the one and only Zapata are still alive
Mexico will be more powerfull and known
more for its hard working people and her
natural resources, insted we are more
in disgrace becouse of durgs, crime and
corruption from top to botttom.

LETS STOP BLAMING THE WHITE PEOPLE for
sins and bad choices of our leaders have
done to our own country. This evil and
very corrupt government in all of the
Latin America should at least be more understanding in our straggle for a better life and future.

LETS ALL BE PROUD LATINOS AND GO BACK
TO OUR INDIVIDUAL MOTHERLANDS AND GET
RID,ERADICATE AND FIGHT THE BIGGEST
DIABLO OF THEM ALL "CORRUPTION"

=====VIVA MEXICO=====