Karen wrote on Oct 22, 2006 6:46 AM:If you think that is bad, you should see the poisons your child is exposed to at school by these pesticide companies....they always say their chemicals are "SAFE". wrong... read the Msds this stuff is deadly...search pesticide poisioning children and see what your find...

Baffled wrote on Oct 22, 2006 9:16 AM:Since when do migratory birds become "domestic ducks"? Looking at the picture I can see Mallards and a Coot among others, migratory birds according to my National Geographic Society field guide. Had a neighbor once whose swimming pool became a stop for some of these birds, could do nada per National Wildlife staff. So how come this guy gets to snuff a few dozen? Don Harris sounds dangerous to me!

Elmer Fudd wrote on Oct 22, 2006 12:37 PM:What a shame. Those ducks would have been great on the BBQ or in my oven. Heh, heh, heh, heh!

Ryan wrote on Oct 22, 2006 9:43 PM: If more than 70 ducks would disrupt the "ecosystem" of the lake, why did Don Harris allow 175 ducks to call "Menifee" their home? The unauthorized contract was to remove 60 ducks. What was the point? Removing 60 ducks would still leave enough ducks (115) to "disrupt the ecosystem of the lake!

Ryan wrote on Oct 23, 2006 1:40 AM:It never ceases to amaze me how folks can make determinations like "Don Harris sounds dangerous to me" Don Harris was not even present. You heard what Riverside County Animal Control Deputy Director Frank Corvino had to say. The practice is NOT uncommon. The method he described is identical to the one used by Harris. To look at a mallard duck and assume that the ducks being removed were mallarda? They were all described by those who ARE investigating as "domestic" but I guess this person knows more because he takes National Geographic. Say, you know what they say when you assume don't you.... well if the shoe fits.... For one I am glad there are guys like Harris around who shows sensitivity, and concern about being humane in doing his job. I hear all the time about lakes where they just shoot them! Sounds more like the duck lady is the one to be feared, albeit too late for the 30.

Daffy wrote on Oct 23, 2006 9:58 AM:Suffer'n Succotash!! We were just trying to go to another lake. That crazy Duck Lady spooked us and now many of my duck buddies are gone forever. There otta be a law!

Lake Walker wrote on Oct 23, 2006 11:29 PM:I quote from the animal control guy "You can always run the risk of a duck running into the water during the sedation process," Corvino said. "I wonder how well the area was sealed off to prevent interference." Why hasnt anybody mentioned the fact that the company hired for this duck removal never had this thought in mind? Come on, are you telling me this is the first time a duck has swam back into the water after feeling stressed? Maybe the residents should be looking at the company that was hired for not doing a good enough job to begin with. Could it be they are placing blame on the so called "duck lady" since they had to use paddle boats to attempt to rescue the ducks - how humorous must *that* have been???? Talk about the blind leading the blind, gimmie a break. Sounds like they are all a buncha winners.

Melissa wrote on Oct 24, 2006 11:45 AM:Seems the ONLY person that was NOT on Lake Menifee, the night of the kill, was the Lake Manager! If the Lake Manager contracted to have the Ducks killed, he should have, in the very least, been present!

Chris wrote on Oct 25, 2006 12:14 AM:Melissa: I don't think the contract called for any ducks to be "killed". While we all have the privilege of being "back seat drivers" and "arm chair quarterbacks" with 20/20 hindsight, let's trust that the folks doing the investigation as aluded to by Mr. Corvino, will consider all evidence before THEY render a verdict. Man, you guys are ready to barbecue everyone, INCLUDING the ducks!!

Melissa wrote on Oct 27, 2006 6:23 AM:Chris-What investigation? According to Don Harris, he could - 3) "sneak up behind them and wring their little necks,". Some ducks died; that IS sad. But let's focus on the REAL issue! The MLMA board did NOT authorize this expense; and therefore NO payment has been made to the "pest" control company! Check YOUR documents Chris!

Sean wrote on Oct 28, 2006 12:52 AM:I actually spoke directly with the Officer handling the complaint from U.S. Fish and Wildlife. She told me that she inspected 43 carcasses and determined they were all "cross-breeds", based on their coloring, which have no protection under the law. In her opinion, no crime had been committed. I couldn't believe my ears. I, flippantly, asked her if I could kill ducks, because they annoyed me like other common pests like mice or pigeons? She stated,"You could as long as you know difference between a "true" wild duck and a cross-breed." She further stated that beyond that, it was a matter for our assoc. since the lake is private. I know that the Lake Manager and the Ducklady have had a tenuous relationship. I question the Manager's timing of this culling, given his pending dismissal. However, as residents, we bear some of the blame for these killings, because we have not remained vigilant of the Assoc. Board and it's policies. The way to be more vigilant is to let your voice be heard by voting. I'm not happy that $3,000.00 of our money was spent on this farce. If this was a routine operation that is carried out multiple times a year, as the current Board has stated in a letter to homeowners, why was it done in the middle night under the cloak of darkness after curfew? The Lake Manager claims that, according to his numbers, there is still a robust population. I walk the lake every other morning and I've rarely counted more than 30 at any one time since the incident. Get out and vote. Let the Board know that we are watching them!

Jamie wrote on Oct 28, 2006 7:53 AM:The statements of Don Harris and the FACTS noted in the above story reveal one very important FACT- THERE WAS NO NEED FOR THE REMOVAL OF ANY DUCKS. Don Harris said " The lake can safely handle 70 ducks," The FACTS are that there were 33 dead ducks, zero captured ducks, and now Lake Menifee has NO ducks. Do the math! There was no need for any removal!

Sean wrote on Oct 28, 2006 2:49 PM:Not only is this a tragedy for many of our local children, who have watched many of these birds grow up from hatchlings, but now the lake is filled with coots, which are a lot more destructive to the landscape.

JOHNNY wrote on Oct 29, 2006 8:38 PM:Well, I have read the back and forths, and I will shed a litte "light" on the subject. First there are still WAY to many ducks on the lake. At last count still over a hundred! The correct number allowed by the documents is 40. Harris stretched the number to 70 to give every side the benefit of the doubt. The DUCK LADY has been feeding all ducks for two years. And is in the minds of many the one responsible for the numbers of domestic ducks swelling to 150-175 depending on when you count. Furthermore to the person who said no crime was committed, let me offer you a little insight. Just because an animal is not protected does not mean you can "carelessly" cause it's death. Someone WILL be charged with the killing of the ducks. Remember you heard it first from John! Additionally,to the person who said "no ducks" .... .either you have no eyes, or no "eyes to see". Start counting at one, then two, then three, etc. etc. Interestingly, whereas domestic ducks are NOT protected, COOTS on the other hand ARE. Best not to mess with them! What was the name of the person from U.S. Fish and Wildlife with whom you spoke, SEAN? Do you remember? Melissa, you must not live in Menifee Lakes, or you would know from the letter we all received this past week indicating that "THE ASSOCIATION" had been working with a contractor to remove/relocate a number of ducks... This settles the matter for all time. And I understand that if CFO MOFFITT won't sign the check, there are others who will, knowing that MOFFITT probably won't be on the board after Nov 14th anyway. And once again I would like to remind everyone that while we all have our opinions, and some of us know the truth.... when the gavel falls, and the verdict is in.. hopefully there will be a newsreporter around to tell the story. If not I will be sure to call one. Try to get the facts straight before you write. It is comical to see what some are writing here, as though it were actually truth.

Sean wrote on Oct 30, 2006 12:01 AM:John or Johnny, I didn't receive the name of the Officer handling the case, as I was referred to U.S. Fish and Wildlife service by the Fish & Game Dept. She was only referred to as the Officer in charge of this case. I spoke with her directly. She stated on Sept. 28th that no crime had been committed and that further investigation was unlikely. If you want the true facts of the case, I suggest you contact U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service.

John wrote on Oct 30, 2006 3:12 PM:Say there Sean, do you remember the phone number you called? You can check your phone records. I have called and no one remembers speaking to you, unless you used a different name. NO accusation here. Just a phone number would be helpful. The reason I asked is that your numbers seem to be a bit different from the ones I received. For example you state that she inspected '43' carcases. Well, the numbers given to me by the same department AND the folks at APM was '33' carcases. Since there were only a total of 35 birds tranquilized according to records and reports, this would be significantly incriminating if it were true. It would demonstrate that someone is not on the same page. Also with regard to your observations on your lake walks. Since we are just starting to get the coots in, we have probably not yet received our influx of migratory mallards, etc. for the winter. The "resident" ducks that are here are not "out" where you can see them during the early morning or even mid morning hours. Try checking again around 4pm or so to get a more accurate count. Still over a hundred by my count. Finally, just FYI the United States Wildlife Dept. as well as the California Department of Fish and Game may have indicated that none of THEIR statutes or regulations was violated since none of the birds were protected may be more accurate than stating "no crime was committed". The article states quite clearly by an officer of the law, Deputy Director of Riverside Animal Control Corvino: "He said it is possible that state animal cruelty charges could still be levied against either the pest control company or the residents depending on who is found to be a fault." I would put my confidence in his remark as to the specific charges of animal cruelty. But I trust you are correct in so far as the "migratory bird act" is concerned. Regards,

Melissa wrote on Oct 31, 2006 7:57 AM:John, Johnny, Harris; whatever you call yourself - If the terminated lake manager stated that there were 170+ ducks on the lake, and knew that even 70 ducks were too many, WHY DID HE ONLY CONTRACT FOR THE REMOVAL OF 60 DUCKS? Allowing the population of ducks to swell to 170+, is the ultimate responsibility of the Terminated Lake Manager. Exercising a contract to remove an inadeqate number of ducks,which continues a violation of MLMA /CC&R's is also the the responsibility of the terminated lake manager!

Dick wrote on Nov 1, 2006 12:44 AM:You didn't publish my first comment, maybe you'll publish this one. It's too bad that the duck incident at Lake Menifee has been so controversial. But at the expense of our poor ducks, it has in fact brought out two things . . . good and evil. Now all the voting residents of the lake have a choice as to which path they wish to walk on, good or evil. For those of you who have made adverse comments against my wife, and for the lies published and broadcast on live TV, you've made your choice. I was there WITH my wife the night of the incident. I had to tie my shoe laces and catch up, approximately 80 seconds, but, the ducks were already IN the water BEFORE WE WERE EVER CALLED TO THE LAKE. Re-read the truth. It was eye-witnessed that the ducks, WITHIN 3 TO 5 MINUTES of eating something from bags thrown to them by an employee of a pest control company, "stumbled and fell over". "Some of the ducks sort of FLEW IN TO THE WATER and some were on the grass and cement NOT MOVING". Let me repeat that . . . in the water, on the grass and cement NOT MOVING. 15 MINUTES LATER, my wife arrived on the scene and I 80 seconds behind her. When I got there, I found the same thing the witness saw, and Suzy found, ducks (dead), on the grass, on the cement and in the water. My wife wasn't even around when I got there. She was up an enbankment at a neighbor's yard getting a camera so she could shoot the scene, and she did just that All the ducks were dead, not tranquilized, dead. Even one of the security guards brought me a duck he found 40 yards away, and he said to me, "this duck is not breathing". I told him I didn't think any of the rest of them were either. (Even the fish and wildlife inspector said she saw over 40 carcuses . . . why were there 40 carcuses when only about 12 ducks got in the water???) It's called poison, not sedation, poison. 40 ducks wearn't in the water when we got there, only about a dozen. All the rest were dead ducks laying everywhere, on the sidewalk and in the grass. I then instructed the guards to open the gates to the paddle boats because the pest company employees were arguing with each other about "not gettng wet" to get the dead ducks off the lake, some as far away as 60 to 70 yards. I even helped them push off in the paddle boats to retrieve the dead ducks on the lake and waited until they returned. They left with about six dead ones in a cage that they retrieved from near shore, and came back with about another six from the lake, for a total of about 12 ducks from the lake (we have photos of before and after that paddle boat left and returned). After at least a half dozen attempts, I finally got one of the pest control employees to give me the contract that they felt authorized them to do what they were doing, knowing the sheriff was on the way, because the eye witness who woke Suzy and I from our sleep, had also called the cops. I left for my home, was gone longer than expected because of a problem with my copier, got back to the lake, gave the original copy back to the pest company employee and took a copy to the sheriff at which time we did agree, they had a right to do what they were doing according to the contract (which I understand is under dispute). So, the dead ducks are not dead yet, and this apparently isn't over, because we are being accused of interferring, yet the ducks were already "sedated" and dead in the water before we even got on the scene. We got there AFTER they were dead, and we've yet to have anyone tell us where the "recovered" ducks are so we can go visit them as we did when they were with us at Menifee Lakes. Why, because no ducks ever recovered and they never will because we firmly believe they were not sedated. You'll hear a lot more before this is all over, but Don Harris, the previous lake manager, whom, from what I understand, was only the manager of the swim lagoon (not the lake) the night this incident took place, falsely accused my wife, the "duck lady" of killing the ducks based on a concaucted story by a pest control company out of control . It's called C.Y.A. and Suzy has been used as a scapegoat. IMPOSSIBLE. They were dead before we got there. I suspect what really happened is that the pest control employee "sedated" the ducks too close to the water's edge and a duck when frightened will naturally head for the water (if he can). I believe we can prove that the scene we came upon was one of utter confusion and out of control BEFORE we got there. The "sedated" ducks got away from him. I know he called for help because before I started my 80-second trek to the lakes edge, a third employee drove around the locked gate, on to the park grass and down to the scene, almost hitting me in the process because he never saw me. What that says is that he was called BEFORE we ever were on the scene, not after we were there. There's also the question about the protection code for this effort. It spells out some very specific steps these companies must take BEFORE they begin the process. None of these steps were in place that night indicating gross negligence on the part of the pest control company and whoever hired them in protecting residents of the park from harm and making sure there was no accidental interference. So, the duck lady DID NOT kill the ducks. The ducks were dead BEFORE the duck lady (and her husband) got to the lake and there were only about a dozen ducks on the lake when we arrived. Lastly and very questionably, how in the world does 30 domestic ducks overpopulate a lake the size of Menifee Lakes (or even 40 if that's what the fish and wildlife warden saw). There was no need to remove them to begin with, none whatsoever. That's my 30 for now, more to come if necessary. We stand in the truth and we won't give in to the lie.

Brent wrote on Nov 1, 2006 1:41 PM:Hello there, Since DICK works for the TIMES who publishes this web news site, I am not surprised that they publishes his lies. Lets see if they will also publish the sworn statement of the folks at APM the company who performed the "attempted lawful" relocation. Also, strange that it took DICKY boy a month to fabricate his story, when APM published the following account the morning after the attempt. And have given the same statement to all governmental agencies looking into or investigating the incident. September 27, 2006 On the scheduled date for contracted duck removal, I Brent Sherman, Area Manager for Animal Pest Management Services, Inc. spoke to security guard Tim regarding duck capture tonight and requested that he keep the golf cart clear of the duck baiting area so that the birds would not get "spooked" and fly into the water. He then went on patrol around the lake in his golf cart. Soon after, two people later walked through the park as I was baiting.I baited approximately 30 - 35 ducks with (AC) bread in the parking lot approximately 50 yards from lake's edge. When the ducks were almost fully sedated, which was 10 - 15 yards from the shoreline I spotted a woman about 50 yards away walking towards me. As the woman approached (Mrs. Allen) she asks me what I am doing. I informed her that I am performing the duck removal as instructed by our contract with Menifee Lakes. She asked me again what I am doing and why the ducks are acting as they were (they were falling asleep). She told me to leave and said I was trespassing and that she was going to call the police. She also said the HOA Board Members were on their way to the job-site. Mrs. Allen began making her phone calls. I asked her not to interfere with the situation and that she could endanger the ducks if she did so. Mrs. Allen then proceeded to walk towards the shoreline as I protested. I informed her to leave the birds alone and that she was endangering their lives if she walked closer to them. I asked Mrs. Allen repeatedly and told her multiple times that she was endangering their lives. Mrs. Allen said I was a killer and that nobody is removing her "children" from here tonight. I once again warned her as she tried to either pick up or check on one of the ducks that was approximately 10 - 15 yards from the shoreline.(30-45 feet) the ducks became spooked 'and their adrenaline began to kick in due to her commotion and her talking. Approximately 30 - 40 of the ducks flew into the take in a matter of an instant as t had warned her they would do. I then called Kevin Hawman, the Vice President of Operations and iufoaned him of what had just taken place. Kevin spoke to Mrs. Allen and when she asked how many of the ducks will wake up Kevin replied "we will have to wait and see how many of them will drown. During the next 20 - 30 minutes Kevin Bowman. Ron Moore (Area Supervisor) and myself found ourselves being harassed by Mrs.Alllen. She also stated that she was going to follow us home so that we would not harm "her children." I consider this unacceptable behavior and threatening. Shortly thereafter 4 - 5 more residents showed up all of which hegan protesting the validity of our contract and taking photographs. The security guard was aware of the situation and was not able to do much to diffuse the situation. We requested the use of paddleboats to retrieve the ducks. We were able to ,retrieve 33 ducks on the lake over the next 45 minutes: most of which had drowned as a result of Mrs. Allen's interference. James Hymeman and Jayme Halladay from the Security Committee came in and started talking with Mrs. Allen. His conversation was very civil and later James said he was pushed, The Sheriff Deputy(Officer Keene) arrived and defused the heated conversation. Office: Keene looked Over our contract and stated there is nothing further for him to do. We requested that Officer Keene address the point that following as away from the fob-site would not be allowed. At that point Officer Keeney went to talk to Mr. Allen and then Kevin. Ron and I left the job-site. The morning of September 27th, 2006. Brady Hill from the Department of Fish and Game called.

Sean wrote on Nov 2, 2006 3:58 PM:John, Johnny, or Don? I will be happy to produce my phone records, if and when this thing goes to a hearing, if requested. It is funny how the numbers of ducks killed keeps changing depending on which side of the issue you are on. Initially, I was told 60 ducks had been killed. If you talk to Assoc. supporters, they state that 33 ducks were killed. That's why I called U.S. Fish & Wildlife, to find out the facts. The Case Officer was on site. I wouldn't expect that she would remember everyone that she talked to in the days following the incident, because she had quite a few calls. The propaganda campaign that has been launched against Suzy "The Duck Lady" is disgraceful. She has been one of the people that makes Menifee Lakes a great place to live. There is no doubt in my mind that this action had more motivation behind it than just the health of the lake. First, if there was 170 ducks on the lake, as management claims, then removing only 60 ducks would have still left far more ducks on the lake than the Assoc. allows and what was determined to be a "healthy" amount. Only removing 60 ducks would still have not brought the lake into compliance. Second, I believe this was a petty and cruel attempt to "stick it" to the "Duck Lady" one last time, because certain people blame her for the situation they are in today. Anybody, who has lived in this area for any amount of time, knows how much Suzy cares for these birds and would do nothing to harm them, so they attack her at her most vulnerable spot by attacking her "children"(her words) rather than confronting her directly. Bravo!

Aquatic Ecologist wrote on Nov 16, 2006 12:14 AM:WEll, This is certainly quite a thread. Let's see if this gets posted, what do you say. So far all I see is a personal attack on either the Duck Lady or Mr. Harris. The bottom line is that Mr. Harris acted within his position as the Manager whether it was his last day or not. He had authority to schedule the relocation of the ducks, had notified his board of directors, and was acting within the parameters of his operations manual. As a a lake ecologist I can tell you that there is a lot more to determining how many ducks a lake can support than just the surface area. Sidewalks, grass areas, ages of people using the parks, water quality, make up water or source water quality, and chief among these is the nutrient content of the lake water itself. I love reading all of the arm chair quarterbacks passing judgment on either the duck lady or harris. Whatever happened the night the ducks died, one thing is certain... Harris had nothing to do with it. You can second guess all you want but it is just "words going out to do battle with words" and signifying nothing. As to how much responsibility lies with the company and how much lies with the Duck Lady, I have looked a little deeper than perhaps y'all have. There is an ongoing investigation. When the investigation is over, I suppose we will know who is to blame for the deaths of the ducks. It would be useless for us to try to second guess the authorities who are doing the investigation. But as a specialist I can tell you that this is not a local problem only. There are man made lakes all over the U.S. and in California with EXACTLY the same problems. That is why companies like APM provide this service. Duck lovers don't like it. But that's just the way it is. Perhaps if they had to do all the clean up and pay all the bills associated with the mess created by too many ducks (ducks can carry the 'bird flu' which will be the next pandemic folks), and all the other problems that occur when we interfere with nature, they would not be so beneficent. What say we let the 'sleeping ducks' lay. AE

Bama boy wrote on Nov 28, 2006 8:17 PM:What do Aquatic Ecologist, Brent, Dick, John, and Johnny all have in common? They are all Don Harris!

Bama Boy wrote on Nov 29, 2006 7:55 PM:I stand corrected. Dick is not Don Harris.