AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Dec 13, 2006 12:21 AM:I don't know why I even checked to see what the latest was. I really didn't think there would be anything new happening yet. Since I was old enough to pledge allegiance to the flag I've been proud to be an American. Tonight, I'm ashamed of those in power; whether they be civilian or military. For me, they no longer represent the principles for which so many have fought. They've abandoned the values that they themselves have taught those who looked to them for guidance. Instead, they make a mockery of justice. When charges were first announced in June they said that these young men were presumed innocent. It's sad that the leaders and mentors will never be held accountable for the injustice they've allowed. I wrote a poem in September. It now holds holds more meaning than I ever thought it would. I'm no poet; which will soon be obvious if NCTimes allows. If I bore anyone, I apologize! ["Mentors"] "You taught them, Courage, Honor, Valor, and Corps de esprit'. To protect our country. To keep us all free. Now where are their mentors? Where have your voices been? You taught them, "Leave no man behind." To "Never give in." Trained to be Warriors. Made to walk through Hell. OORAH! Marine Corps mentors, For you have taught them well. You taught them that Marines take care of their own. So why have you deserted them and left them all alone? If America can hold her faith and trust in Her Marines. Then where are their mentors; The ones who taught them well, Who sent them into battle, Who sent them into Hell? Have you not the Courage, Honor, Valor, and Corps de esprit, To stand up for those who trust you and yearn to be free? To keep broken promises, To restore broken dreams. To live up to your motto to the United States Marines."] The toughest Marine I ever heard of; CHESTY PULLER,(among many quotes), said what I feel at this moment..."TAKE ME TO THE BRIG. I WANT TO SEE THE REAL MARINES."!!!!!!

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Dec 13, 2006 12:39 AM:If their enlistments have expired and they're no longer getting paid...LET THEM GO!!!!

Oh cry me a river wrote on Dec 13, 2006 8:27 AM:I'm so tired of hearing about the hardship of these guys.

esteban wrote on Dec 13, 2006 8:30 AM:Give the troops a pay raise!!!!!

Name and Rank only wrote on Dec 13, 2006 9:52 AM:Semper Fi Victor Kelley!

to AW4 wrote on Dec 13, 2006 9:54 AM:Chesty Puller is turning in his grave. These marines are being thrown under the bus.

awesome wrote on Dec 13, 2006 10:00 AM:to AW4cryinoutloud! That is truelly awesome! As a wife, Semper Fi

Goatskull to AW4cryinoutload wrote on Dec 13, 2006 10:01 AM:No do not let them go untill their case is finished.

resident wrote on Dec 13, 2006 10:54 AM:LET THEM GO !!!!

Impeach: wrote on Dec 13, 2006 11:10 AM:The so called head of this mess.

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Dec 13, 2006 11:21 AM:To Goatskull: I understand where you're coming from. I'd love nothing more than to see the remaining four go into court and blow this thing out of the water, but they and their families have been put through too cottonpickin' much. For once, I'd like to see the "innocent" get the gold mine rather than the shaft.

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Dec 13, 2006 11:30 AM:To Oh cry me a river: If you're so tired of hearing about the hardship of these guys, I have the remedy...STOP READING ABOUT IT!!!!!!

Consider this: wrote on Dec 13, 2006 12:03 PM:A group of Marines meet in the dark under a grove of palm trees and plot a murder. They agree on the target of their murderous plan, but if he’s not at home they also agree that anyone else will do. They agree to falsify their report and to make it look like a real skirmish—a bona fide engagement, rather than a murder scene. They agree to their cover story and they take an oath to stick to it. They all have one last chance to abort the plan but no one speaks, not one man. That night they roust Awad out of bed and drag the terrified father, out into the dark beat and bind him and shoot him in the head, over and over and over again. They are held in the brig and four of the eight confess and implicate the rest. Each of their pleas is consistent with the others. They later state that they knew it was wrong and that each of them had the power to stop it. Query: When their period of enlistment is up, why should we have to continue to pay them? There are real military heroes who conducted themselves with honor who are not receiving adequate medical care and whose families will be without their support for years and years to come. Why should these 8 be paid beyond their current term of service? "Innocent until proven guilty" doesn't mean financial entitlement in perpetuity. If you were an employer and 8 of your employees had been arrested for a serious crime against your company and had been arraigned and were held in the county jail….when their contract was over; should you have to renew it and keep them on your payroll, or should you be able to wait to see the findings of the court before renewing their contract?

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Dec 13, 2006 12:16 PM:For those out there who have already found these guys guilty before hearing "everything"; The news on the Duke LaCrosse Team case just announced that the lab that did the DNA testing on the accuser failed to report that "multiple" DNA evidence was found. None of it matched the DNA of the accused. The lives of these young men have been ruined by a prosecutor who will now probably be investigated by the federal government.

Brother of Pennington TO wrote on Dec 13, 2006 12:38 PM:oh cry me a river...You're tired of hearing about the hardships these guys are receiving? Men who are now in jail and not only have to find a way to drum up money to pay for their defense, but consider this, they also now can't send money to support their children. I guess these kids don't matter to you either, or their well being. To Goatskull, what is the risk of letting these guys out until their trial? Where are they going to run to and with what money? There is no money left. It's a heartlessness, like your comments, that put these guys in jail before being convicted in the first place. My brother protected your freedom and he's earned nothing from you and others like you but instant guilt, lack of fairness, and most certainly a lack of a fair trial. You've given him no benefit of the doubt, no rights. When was the last time you served, Goatskull? In what unit? When was the last time you picked up a gun and defended this country? How is the view from the cheap seats? And finally, to Consider this, please go and check my laundry list of comments under the link for Hamandayia P8's, and more specifically under "Marine says he was denied lawyer". All your arguement brought up was what the media has released to the public, or shall I say, what the government has allowed leaked to the public. I have posted over and over again with facts and valids pieces of information refuting the government's claims, but I guess people like you are going to believe what you're going to believe no matter the FACTS that show otherwise. These Marines have been mistreated from day one, and anyone here who wants to live in the dreamland that Awad was some innocent father can go run themselves up a flag pole. He was an insurgent, a terrorist, you know, those people who want us infidel Americans to suffer and die! GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT! I've had enough of this. You people stand with your peanut gallery comments, spewing your uneducated filth as though you know all the facts. I do know all the facts, I've seen every bit of the evidence the government has, which is nill. I've talked with Marines who served in Hamandayia. You people want to fry my Brother after the case has come to a conclusion, fine, knock yourself out, because it probably makes you feel better about yourself, and no doubt, fuels your anti-war views. I only pray sometime in your life, the same thing that has happened to my family happens to you in spades. Maybe then you can gain an appreciation of the people who have fought for your rights, then had their removed without provocation, like my brother.

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Dec 13, 2006 1:25 PM:To Consider this: Consider this... Each of the "pleas" is consistent because the "pleas" were "prepared"; kind of like the "prepared statements" handed to our guys by NCIS. The versions of what happened are NOT consistent. NCIS can't even keep it's story in line with Iraqi so-called testimony. They accuse the Marines of leaving a rifle and shovel by the body, by the hole; which is what the so-called Iraqi family members and friends said. It is NOT what the Tribal Leaders said. The Tribal Leaders version coincides with the Marines version; that they took the body, shovel, and rifle to the Iraqi police station. This is what the Tribal Leaders reported 5 days after the incident. How in the livin' House of Beelzebub can "any" photos taken days later Prove anything? The Corpsman and two Marines say what NCIS said about putting the man in the hole, bound and gagged. So, why did one of them say he didn't know who the guy was because he couldn't see him as he was "running down the road to the North"? How does a supposedly bound hand and foot, gagged, beaten, stuck in a hole, man "run" down the road?? Maybe he hopped like a bunny!! NCIS originally charged "all" of the guys with shooting bullets into the deceased. Now all of a sudden; miracle of miracles, after "plea deals", they're sticking "two" guys with putting all of the bullets into the deceased. Tell me how two guys can stand "across the road"; with one of them perfectly placing 3 to 4 rounds in just the face? While the other guy perfectly places 10 rounds into the guy's chest? Wouldn't the guy fall over at some point, or at least "tilt"? Nothing is consistent in this screwed up mess. The plea deal statements are NOT all consistent. You're right about the "fact" that the government doesn't "have" to pay them once their enlistment expires. Heck no! Heaven forbid that the Corps' live up to its bull about standing by its men. To not even allow them to re-up during a time when they're supposed to be under a presumption of innocence; That's really honorable isn't it? The reason they should pay them is because they have not been "proven" guilty, because the Corps' said that all of these men were "presumed innocent", because not everyone has been heard yet, because they all have honorable records of service, and Oh!...It just might be the human, compassionate, and honorable thing to do. You asked about what we'd do if we owned a company and 8 employees were arrested, arraigned and jailed. My husband is starting his own company soon and I can assure you that, in that situation, he and I, both, would check into it personally to see if they were being railroaded. Of course we'd wait!!!!

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Dec 13, 2006 1:56 PM:PS: The President pardoned a "turkey" at Thanksgiving!!!!!

Concerned wrote on Dec 13, 2006 2:12 PM:To Consider this? You are entitled to your opinion however wrong it may be. The fact here is Awad's death occured in a war. A war that is being fought so that you, my friend, can spew you're mind as a free man. He was a casualty, not a murder victim. These men should have never been charged. The fact that they were is a testimonial as to why we can't win in this situation.

mark wrote on Dec 13, 2006 2:43 PM:The Marine Corps has a long disgraceful history of providing sub-standard defence council and often little to no funds for investigation. Sometimes only a few hundred dollars gets approved even in a capital case. It's "free" and worth every penny.

Harry wrote on Dec 13, 2006 2:50 PM:All we know for sure is that 4 of the 8 confessed and pled guilty to reduced charges. Their sworn statements point to the other 4, as party to the crime. We know that Hashim Awad was killed. The court martials are necessary to prove or disprove the allegations.

Jane wrote on Dec 13, 2006 2:56 PM:Of Course Randy Duke Cunningham will continue to collect his retirement.

Brother of Pennington But Harry wrote on Dec 13, 2006 3:23 PM:Can you not agree at this point that these boys aren't being treated fairly? What more do they have to go through before people like yourself, who haven't exactly stood on the side of the Marines in this case, admit an injustice is being done to my Brother and his brothers? Harry, I ask you this, is there ever a point where the government has gone to far, over-stepped too many bounds, crossed too many illegal lines before enough is enough. I have wished for my Brother's day in court, but not under the circumstances that are currently skewing any chance he has to a fair trial. How are these boys suppossed to be pay for their children's well being, as their held in jail without pay? I'm sure the Haditha Fathers are able to pay for their children, seeing as how, even though they are awaiting charges and trial, they receive full pay and walk the streets free men. Why doesn't my Brother deserve that same right? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. Harry, I've given you bit after bit of information(In Marine Asked For Laywer link), about Awad, refuting the poor, innocent, and crippled words that the prosecution has linked to the press, and the anti-war folks have eaten up with a spoon. I gave you good arguements as to why the junior Marines took their deals. Is there anything to convince you, or are you so assured of your position that not reason nor logic can pursuade any of your ilk to see what is happening to your fellow Americans, the same Americans willing to die for you and your freedoms. Soldiers and Marines don't get to choose who they shoot at, which country they're to go to, who they are to fight, that's the government's job. I'm not being derogatory, I'm just trying to understand your side's position on this, which seems to be, burn these boys at all costs, fairness be darned. Is this what America does to those who fight to protect it? Is this the thank you for my Brother's 3 volunteered tours in Iraq. I am shamed by my country, and those who can't look past their political agendas for just one moment to see the injustice that is ongoing.

Consider this to concerned wrote on Dec 13, 2006 3:30 PM:Yes we are at war and I can understand when one army kills the enemy--but we invaded and defeated the elite guard and disbanded the Iraqi army. So if we are at war, would you be as charitable if the sunni death squad or the shiite militia came to North County and dragged men from their homes and executed them and raped 14 year old girls and kicked down doors of civilian homes? War doesn't justify murder. Civilian populations aren't legitimate targets in war. I don't describe this as a war, it is an attempted and failed occupation.

I don't understand wrote on Dec 13, 2006 3:38 PM:Of course no one wants to believe that such an awful tragedy could occur. The reality is that it is possible. Its just as wrong for people to assume that these Marines are innocent as it is for others to assume they are guilty. NO ONE knows for sure what happened that night, except for the Marines, Awad and the Good Lord. Let the judicial process take its course and the truth will come out.

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Dec 13, 2006 3:40 PM:To Consider this: Consider this...The "pleas" are consistent because they were prepared and agreed to by those taking the deals. Just like "prepared statements". The versions of what happened are "not" consistent. Iraqi testimony charged that the P8 placed a rifle and shovel by the body. Yet the Tribal leaders who reported the incident said the Marines took the body, rifle and shovel to the Iraqi police station; which is what the Marines stated. The body can't have been in two places at the same time. Ther's no way the so-called witnesses could have seen a body by any hole. They said they even waited till the next day to look for the deceased. The charges, later backed up by the Corpsman and two Marines, stated that the man was bound, gagged, put in the hole and shot. Yet, one of the two Marines said he didn't know who the guy was because the guy was running down the road to the north. How does a bound man who's been shot and in a hole pull that one off? Originally all of the guys were charged with shooting the man. Now, after plea deals, they say there are only two guys who supposedly fired the fatal bullets. Yet, the accused say they all fired from "across the road", with only a couple of them not aiming at the man. Nothing about this thing is consistent. It's true that the government doesn't "have" to pay our Marines once their enlistment expires. But to not give men; who the Corps' itself stated were presumed innocent, and have honorable service records, the chance to re-enlist is just a swell example of the Corps standing by its men. If my husband and I owned a company and 8 men were arrested, arraigned, and jailed for allegedly harming our company, we would check into it ourselves to make sure they weren't being railroaded. That does actually happen you know!!!

So its OK to kill wrote on Dec 13, 2006 7:19 PM:So it's OK to kill an unarmed civilian and shoot him, because thats war? We hear about atrocities commited by other armies of the world, and the American public is outraged. American military does it and its ok? Hypocrties! And no I'm not a liberal, I am a conservative.

MorallyRight1 wrote on Dec 14, 2006 12:21 AM:One thing has become glaringly apparent as this event continues to unfold, and that is the Military made absolutely certain that it had it's derriere covered from all angles, for all instances, for all situations, and for the protection of those in higher command, when they drew up the U.C.M.J. They 'could' pay these men if they wanted, but they don't. They 'could' extend their enlistments, but they don't. They 'could' release them until trial, but they don't. Since, all Military is above the laws of our land, they have some sort of clause for every stinking, dirty act they pull, they made sure of that. That is why they have their own judicial court system as well, with a 9 member Marine Officer jury, not 12 member from a cross section of society. Does one even stand a chance? But this facade does not make it just, nor does it make it morally fair. It just makes it stink. And the Marines above all, now only further dig their own grave, no longer the elite force they once were. This isn't about a man's death anymore, folks. This is about the slow demise of a military system that refused to adapt to the times. In every facet of our society we have changed with the times, even too much so at times. Yet, not the military. They will not even entertain any change whatsoever. Their 'slap on the back for the Colonel' or 'I'll cover your back if you cover mine, if caught red handed' antiquated attitude, where anything goes, so long as their pay continues, may soon crumble on their shiny shoes. Hence, it may very well be that this single event will prove to be the demise of our Military as we know it. Who knows for absolutely certain the status of Awad prior to his death? But one thing for sure is known, if he were the innocent civilian some are proclaiming him to be, and handicapped at that, then he should have evacuated with the rest of the 'innocent civilians', long before this event ever happened. The fact that he stayed, several years now, and was armed and well supplied, one can only deduct he is anything but innocent. Come on Marines it's high time to get with the program and get real, before it is too late.

MorallyRight1 wrote on Dec 14, 2006 12:29 AM:An afterthought: these men have been denied due process of law, right to speedy trial, rights to the normal debriefing and psychological assistance, their pay cut, have been harassed 24/7 for over 7 months now, by our own Marines, visitors treated as common criminals themselves, mail tampered with, death threats from within, their families harassed, and then kicked to the curb like a dead dog. What else, pray tell, can the Marines find to further torment them with? What other cruel tricks can they pull out of their hat, even BEFORE THEY HAVE BEEN FOUND GUILTY. OMG, try pulling some of this stuff in the civilian world, and you would have so many agencies and civil rights groups jumping in, your head would spin. Think about it, what else can they do to these four? And then, will they also do the same to the Haditha group to follow?

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Dec 14, 2006 12:41 AM:To Brother of Pennington: Hey kiddo. There are just some people whose minds you can never change, no matter how much information you give them. I've tried, and found that the ones who are most against your brother and the others, are the ones who ignore information I've tried to share. They'll insult you or seem to give you a crumb of understanding, and then ruin it with some comment that nullifies even that little crumb. They understand why the four took plea deals. They know it has nothing to do with innocence or guilt. They just don't give a crap. The thing to keep in mind is that they are a Minority. This morning I listened to Rush Limbaugh. He used the words "Tyrannical Minority". I like that. Take their words for what they're worth...NOTHING!! Lean on those who stand by you. Tell your brother to carry those of us who support him and the others in his heart and keep us in his mind. Draw strength through his family, his attorneys, us, and his faith. We aren't going anywhere. We're in this for the duration.

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Dec 14, 2006 12:52 AM:To MorallyRight1: Your words could very well be prophetic. I just wish those in power had the intelligence to realize the truth in them, and the guts to act on them. AW4.

Harry wrote on Dec 14, 2006 3:51 AM:Brother of....When I read your words I find them very compelling and I have enough distrust of our government and dislike for the military that I am inclined to believe you. But I still have the impression that your brother and the other men were going beyond their orders and knowingly violated rules of engagement and took matters into their own hands.. Your arguements are the most rational and convincing of any I have seen written in these columns and I am trying to take them in. Most of the posters are so offensive and noisy and as thoughtful as a cheerleader squad at an execution, and they move me to respond with angry rhetoric, but I am listening to you. Good Luck.

Harry wrote on Dec 14, 2006 4:20 AM:To Brother of.....I continue to think about your words; I know that the government did frame and convict an innocent man in 1975 who still is and will probably die in federal prison. Leonard Pelletier is an American Indian leader who was convicted of shooting 2 FBI agents at the Pine Ridge Reservation. The evidence was doctored, witnesses lied, etc. So I know that injustices, such as you allege, happen. I also know of draft resisters who were mistreated and essenially tortured in prison, so I know it can happen. I really assumed they only happened to those on the political left--naive of me I suppose. Once again. Good Luck.

Harry wrote on Dec 14, 2006 10:18 AM:Rush Limbaugh was borrowing a phrase written by John Stuart Mills in 1859. In his Essay On Liberty he warned of the potential tyranny of the Majority. "Mill warns of a danger to liberty, which democracies are prone to, namely, the tyranny of the majority. In a representative democracy, if you can control the majority (and get them to vote for, and elect, your candidates) then you can control everyone (because your candidates, once "democratically elected", will pass whatever laws are needed for this, as was done by Hitler's agents in the 1930s in Nazi Germany and seems to be happening today in the U.S.A.)." I hope Rush gave credit to John Stuart Mills for the original idea and the pompous, over-inflated drug addicted sexual tourista didn't try to pass off his ridiculous parody as original thought.

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Dec 14, 2006 11:52 AM:To MorallyRight1: Sorry. Just can't help myself. Don't know your gender. It doesn't matter; you are awesome. I've written letters to people I'll not mention. If you haven't; you should. Your thoughts and the way you express them is needed. I'll bet you're also in this for the duration. God Bless you MR1. AW4.

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Dec 14, 2006 1:02 PM:To Harry: "YOU" said, and I'll use your quote, that "Most of the posters are so offensive and noisy and as thoughtful as a cheerleader squad at an execution, and they move me to respond with angry rhetoric..." WOW! The only thing "moving" you is YOU! Remember when you told people to ignore my "rants"? Shucks; I thought I was the only one to whom you referred in that way. Back in August you told Jay to hang in there and not let J.D's "rants" get you down." Just before that you had been "moved" to respond to someone, telling them, quote: "We have the 'ravings' of people who believe any action carried out by a Marine is honorable and above crime--it wouldn't matter if they had killed Joseph and then raped Mary, they would say "Semper Fi" and call them heroes...". It must be difficult for a man of peace for over 40 years to be "moved" to respond with that kind of insulting angry rhetoric. Now, after months of dissing our Marines, you say you distrust the government and admit you have a dislike for the military. WHY? Does it have something to do with being a "witness for peace" for over 40 years? I still wait to learn what one does in that capacity. I tried googling it; to no avail. Could it mean standing by, doing nothing and witnessing (peacefully of course) what the military does to defend all of us? You tell Brother of Pennigton that you're inclined to believe him, then; there goes the little crumb of understanding you threw out to him. In your following comment you just have to grab that little crumb right back. But, my favorite is that you really assumed that injustices only happened to those on the political left. Does that mean that the Navy Corpsman and Marines are, in your mind, all on the political left? This is so ironic because, you see; I was born on the political left. Today I'm on the political right; yet, for me, "I" don't see left or right. "I" don't see black or white. "I" don't see any specific religion. What I do see are "AMERICANS" who have served this country with honor and are now being "persecuted". NO one has "moved" you to anything Harry. Man-up and take responsibility for your opinions.

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Dec 14, 2006 1:09 PM:To MorallyRight1: I hate it when my English goes south on me. I gotta do this...correction...."your thoughts and the way you express them ARE needed." Just a quirk of mine but, I actually don't mind repeating it because it's true. AW4.

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Dec 14, 2006 2:47 PM:To Harry: I have no doubt that your knowledge of history and literature is extensive. Just not impressive in the way you use it. I find it interesting that you are so aware of the potential tyranny of the majority. Don't you ever worry about the tyranny of the minority? It is, after all, ever present. As for Rush' giving credit to John Stuart Mills; I don't think Mills is worried about it, since he's been deceased for quite a long time. I don't give a toot where Rush Limbaugh got the phrase; I just liked the words. They were indicative of my thoughts. Excuse me, but aren't YOU the one who said he was moved by others to respond with angry rhetoric? Of course, I suppose you believe that your words aren't brought about by what is inside of you. Why don't you man-up Harry and take responsibility for your own rude, insulting and somtimes hateful remarks? Where did the "cheerleader squad at an execution" come from? The remarks about Limbaugh, and I quote you; your words Harry; "...and the pompous, over-inflated drug addicted sexual tourista didn't try to pass off his ridiculous parody as original thought." NOT exactly the words of one who professes to be a Witness for Peace for over 40 years is it? I hear a lot of hate in there. Aside from the disgusting remarks; what makes you think Limbaugh should have to give credit every time he uses a phrase? Do you? He used it the same way I did, and I certainly don't feel that I need to account to you for it. You're already judge and jury over the P8. Aren't you satisfied with that? Must you now assault everyone who uses an analogy or a phrase used by someone else?

Roo wrote on Dec 14, 2006 9:19 PM:The Left has become the Intolerant Left - this is no group singing Kumbayah anymore. They do not have a set of core values - they contribute very little except shrill ugly voices. Many are limosine liberals, don't have a clue in the real world, sit in their ivory towers, have identity complexes, and spew hate and intolerance at the Americans who helped give them their way of life. To the families and supporters of the P 8 - my thoughts and prayers are with you all.

Kanga wrote on Dec 15, 2006 6:45 AM:Not Kumbayah! "We are a gentle, angry people... We are a land of many colors... We are gay and straight together...We are young and old together.... We are a peaceful loving people And we are singing, singing for our lives." Holly Near

PARDON THEM NOW wrote on Dec 15, 2006 2:39 PM:A presidential pardon now for the men being held in the brig at Pendleton!! A pardon for what? For any crime they may be ALLEDGED to have committed. They confessed? These are young guys who could be tricked into "confessing" with promises of this and promises of that. Ever hear of false and coerced confessions? Get real. Release them now. Restore their pay and let's honor them and every man or woman who has gone through the hell of war for the rest of us. Let's not dwell on muddled scenerios and guesses. Do the right thing. Don't sacrifice these guys to satisfy a political agenda calculted to smear our war on terror. However you might feel about the strategy to prevent another 9/11, persecuting these Marines is an abomination and a tragedy. LET THEM GO NOW.

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Dec 15, 2006 3:55 PM:To PARDON THEM NOW:I'm right there with you. You'd think that if, in this country, we can pardon a turkey, we could at least do the same for our Marines. At the very least; leniency or clemency. By denying our guys their chance to re-enlist, the Marine Corps just may as well have said aloud that they are Not presuming them innocent and Not allowing them a fair trial. How much more obvious can a so-called justice system be? How can these leaders hold their heads high with any semblance of pride? They dishonor not only their own; they dishonor themselves.

Turkey Lurkey wrote on Dec 15, 2006 4:49 PM:I wasn't accused of anything.

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Dec 15, 2006 5:33 PM:To Turkey Lurkey: Gobble Gobble! Yeah; THAT totally makes sense!!! Thanks. Now I understand. AW4.

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Dec 15, 2006 5:42 PM:I was re-reading the article. Lt. Vickers says the Marine Corps officials are abiding by regulations. Boy Howdy; that's reassuring. Could they not have begun a little sooner? Say, perhaps...in Iraq!!! Does anyone know just WHO made the final decision to do do this to those they say are presumed innocent?

Children of Hutchins & Thomas wrote on Dec 15, 2006 6:02 PM:I agree with Pardon, let ALL 8 of the guys out now. USMC has done a great injustice to these brave men who voluntary stood up to defend our freedom. And sorry to the bleeding hearts out there that refer to the act that these Marines are accused of as murder, I don’t see it that way in a time of war, correct a WAR. While the tree huggers are out singing Kumbayah and the ACLU is on their intolerant campaign to remove Christmas I want to know how I could get gifts to the innocent children of Sgt Hutchins and Cpl Thomas since the USMC is playing the part of scrooge. Any ideas where to drop off gifts, mail them, or get a list of needed items for these men w/the young children? And to Bro Pennington, Keep the Faith!

Accuracy. wrote on Dec 16, 2006 4:54 AM:The ACLU defends your right to celebrate Christmas as it defends the practice of all religions without Government interference.

PARDON THEM NOW! wrote on Dec 16, 2006 8:50 AM:Marines in combat with a vicious and stealthy enemy. An enemy who sends children with bombs taped to their bodies. Bombs planted along roads and detonated with remote control. Marines killed and maimed by an enemy disguised as civilians. Marines who day and night witness up close and personal the horrors of a war that has lasted longer than World War II. Buddies with arms and legs blown off; buddies now dead or wounded beyond belief. Who was Hashim Ibrahim Awad? Who was he REALLY? An innocent victim of murderous Marines? Was he a terrorist or connected with terrorists? Amid the horrors and incessant small arms fire and incoming mortar rounds and bombs,was he confused with other terrorists? Stop the nonsense and release these Marines NOW!

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Dec 16, 2006 10:47 AM:To the post at 6:15PM on the 15th: Call the Brig, but be sure to ask for specifics on the "total" amount from "all" givers that is allowed each person. You may possibly be "underwhelmed". CHRISTMAS! A time set aside in your heart for peace, love, giving, and forgiveness. Like I said...Underwhwelming!!!!

ACLU wrote on Dec 16, 2006 11:16 AM:The A.C.L.U. makes sure that America doesn't become a theocracy like Iran, Afganistan and even Israel for that matter. God Bless the ACLU and God Bess America (and go ahead and hug a tree--you could do much worse)!

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Dec 16, 2006 10:14 PM:To NCTimes: How'd you like to have me work for you? My post at 10:47AM. 4cryinoutloud, I must not have been awake. The word "givers" is supposed to be "gifts". I give up. I need to read after I write. Could I blame it on you guys? Think I'll become a writer... (joke)!!!...AW4.

brbrNv wrote on Jan 14, 2007 8:59 PM:AW4cryinoutloud you are so awesome...I love it!! Right on!!