Deal or No Deal wrote on Feb 8, 2007 9:44 AM:11:31:31: No deal, therefore life in prison is very much an option if convicted! I hope that his lawyers know what they are doing. He just lost the sympathy that his taking responsibility and good behavior and contrition had earned him.

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Feb 8, 2007 10:25 AM:UH Oh! If my Testing 123 post comes up it's because I tried to submit one but the page kept coming up 'expired'. Guess the system is working now so, here goes again. My respect goes to Cpl. Thomas. He finally realized that he should have held steadfast to his belief in his innocence and not given in to intimidation and empty promises. Maybe Howie Mandell reached him and told him that the DEAL was NO DEAL! If I were one in power in the military today I'd be embarrassed at the ridiculousness of the title: Uniform CODE of Military Justice. CODE being the operative word. I thought the Code referred to something honorable. Now to learn they actually must literally mean CODE, because; in order to know what you're in for as an accused under the UCMJ, you need to decipher the CODE! Apparently, General Mattis is at a deficit. Even "he" doesn't know what to expect. Isn't that just the greatest example of JUSTICE ever heard of in this country!!!

MorallyRight1 wrote on Feb 8, 2007 11:09 AM:Deal or No Deal- WRONG...I would think that he just had second thoughts about what he was doing, when the constant harrassment stopped for a little while. And, I would think that with every legal counsel out there, each is getting a different slant on the entire scenario. Then, throw in the NCIS fiasco, and you have one heck of a clouded mind, not to mention such issues as PTSD!!! I mean we all know that this is war, and you can't hang a death of the enemy on anyone as long as they were following orders from a superior, and felt that he was within his legal responsibilities to issue that order at the time. And, it all goes back to a Corpsman who wanted to be accepted as part of the group, but who instead took the easy way out. I mean after all, they were all in this together, correct? Yet Bacos will be released within 4 weeks into freedom for being the first to turn tail and think of his own skin, instead of that of the Military he was a member of. Maybe that is why he felt he wasn't accepted....because he never acted the part. Maybe he never thought of the others more than his own safety and well being. Furthermore, I would think it would take more male fortitude to actually stand up, under these extreme circumstances and say "Hey wait a minute...." I would not be surprized if some new information was made apparent at this late hour that made him change his request. They are by far, not stupid men!

MorallyRight1 wrote on Feb 8, 2007 11:12 AM:AW4-boy you hit that right on the head, about the UCMJ operative word being CODE! And, if for heaven's sake, the head honcho doesn't even know what to expect (ha ha), then who in God's green Earth would. I agree that Gen. Mattis has been entirely too much in the shadows to be taken with any credence at this point. Maybe they are all out on the golf course again. How is that for JUSTICE?

Hate plea deals wrote on Feb 8, 2007 11:29 AM:I hate plea deals. If the prosecution has a case they shouldn't deal and if they don't then they shouldn't prosecute. How much credibility is there in the testimony of someone who has made a deal? What would you be willing to testify to if it meant ten years or twenty of freedom? I think most people would say what ever they are told to say if it would change a life sentence to ten or twenty years.

To Hate plea deals wrote on Feb 8, 2007 11:50 AM:Or in this case, the difference is 10-21 months versus life without possibility of parole. That's a mighty tempting carrot for anyone to resist.

Smilin Jack wrote on Feb 8, 2007 12:25 PM:Morally Right's position is anything but morally right. It says that all involved should stick together and cover each other's rear. To my mind, real male fortitude would have been for any of these guys to say AT THE TIME, "This is not right!" After all, this is not Osama bin Laden making these charges; it is the US military.

GFN wrote on Feb 8, 2007 12:46 PM:The prosecution has bungled this case so badly that they should swallow any remaining dignity they have and just dismiss the whole thing immediately. Is EVERY Federal agency incompetent? Isn't "effective management" part of the job of the Bush, or any, administration? This is frustrating to see so much of our tax money so totally wasted.

Flip Flopping Away wrote on Feb 8, 2007 12:55 PM:"Well first I was guilty, then I was not guildty" Spoken like a true politician. Love all the rants of the neo-cons on here who run the UCMJ down like it was some commie plot!!!!

Ms. wrote on Feb 8, 2007 3:09 PM:Male Fortitude? It is amusing how pre occupied some people get about "maleness" and its impact on this case--we have had vulgar terms such as "clankers" bandied about; we have references to "manning up" and now "male fortitude". I don't think maleness or male body parts have anything to do with bravery or honesty or forthrightness. A man or woman either has fortitude and courage or they don't. I will grant you that an excess of testosterone might have influenced the decisions in Hamadia the night that Awad was killed but thats about it.

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Feb 8, 2007 3:13 PM:My comments at 10:25AM, and the posts up through 11:50AM, were submitted under the article 2/8/07 titled: Marine Murder Defendant Moves To Withdraw Guilty Pleas; which was printed at 8:30AM PST. The above mentioned posts were moved under "this" article titled: Marine Could Face Premeditated Murder Charge Death Penalty, printed at 1:23PM PST. I mention it because "this" article has additional information which would have influenced part of my comments. In "this" article Cpl. Thomas says he was acting under the color of authority and acting under the orders of his Staff Sergeant. When I offered my respect to Cpl. Thomas it was because I was under the impression his intention was to stand for his innocence; NOT to try and place blame on the Sergeant. Cpl.Thomas had already made a plea arrangement to testify against the others. I have NO respect for this tactic. The rest of my comments stand as written.

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Feb 8, 2007 3:16 PM:To Flip Flopping Away: Try reading the UCMJ before you go foaming at the mouth at those who "have" read it. What the hell is a neo-con anyway? I was under the impression that I'm an American. What do you call yourself? I could offer a few suggestions but will refrain. AW4.

to GFN wrote on Feb 8, 2007 3:49 PM:to the contrary, at this point the word of the remaining defendants is compromised the prosecution should go to trial and seek the strongest sentences up life imprisonment. No more deals.

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Feb 8, 2007 4:00 PM:To the post at 3:49PM: The word of NCIS; which lead to the prosecution of this case, is also compromised. Rather than no more deals...Drop the Charges!!!

Harry wrote on Feb 8, 2007 6:52 PM:I hate it when NCT moves comments from one story and puts them under another. It skews the meaning of the remarks in a way that is quite unfair and irresponsible. I understand AW4's comment. I think it is a shoddy journalistic practice.

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Feb 8, 2007 7:44 PM:To Ms: No one is preoccupied with "maleness"; except, possibly, YOU. What's your problem with it? Smilin Jack's term "male fortitude" was used correctly because it was used in reference to Males. What should he have said..."girlymaleness fortitude"? Clankers replaces the word used for many years in referring to someone who has the... strength.... to face adversity or stand up for something. Not my fault. I didn't start it. I'm sure not going to use the original word. I've used "backbone' and "fortitude" but when I'm PO'd (Uh Oh, I'm gonna hear about that) I use the one that bothers you. If you have a better one feel free to share. I'm open to one that will get a point across in a very expressive way. True; women are also courageous but, in my book, the male is the stronger of the sexes; therefore the "maleness" references. As for testosterone influencing decisions in Hamdania; You're way off base; way out in left field. According to recent reports the problem wasn't testosterone. The problem seems to have had more to do with the brain area of the leaders much higher up than the Sergeant and his men. The other problem seems to be within your brain area; since you seem to presume them guilty without hearing the testimony of all involved and more trials to be held. What's your problem with the use of the term "manning-up"? It's used a lot lately. Gads! At one time, I used to call my friends and say, "WHAAZZZUP?". It was popular at the time. Down the road there will be other words to replace these. When that happens you can expect to see them. Hope it won't offend your "delicateness"; since you are apparently a female who can't seem to deal with "maleness". I, personally, appreciate the fact that it exists.

GFN wrote on Feb 8, 2007 9:54 PM:Based on what has been presented so far, I still believe the prosecuters will drop the charges or lose the case. Incompetence oozes from every discovery.

Concerned wrote on Feb 9, 2007 8:59 AM:I'm encouraged by the change in plea. I never thought this should have been in court in the first place. I know some here will disagree. However, now that it's happened, let's hope for the truth to emerge. We can all learn from the truth.

John1 to Erica and Trent wrote on Feb 9, 2007 9:12 AM:To Trent- you kept my son safe and a grateful father thanks you. I hope and pray for you, my son by extension. Erica, thank you for your kindnesses to me and my son. My thoughts to you and your daughter for strength and grace in this tumbled time.

John1 to GFN wrote on Feb 9, 2007 9:12 AM:Someday there will be a book about the courtroom demeanor of some of these guys.

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Feb 9, 2007 10:27 AM:At 3:13PM yesterday I put "Staff" Sergeant. Should just have put Sergeant. Guess I was going for a promotion for one who would probably be getting one by now, if not for this persecution.

Reality Check wrote on Feb 9, 2007 8:56 PM:I don't think the Marines gives promotions for participating in the murder of a civilian and then a web of decent, lies and maneuvers to escape responsibility. Semper Fi

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Feb 10, 2007 3:31 PM:To Reality Check: Here's a reality check for you. The Marines have NOT PROVEN a murder. The Marines have NOT PROVEN any web of deceit (I think deceit is what you meant), lies, or maneuvers to escape responsibility by any of the accused. NCIS, and the Corps' HAVE PROVEN their effectiveness at Not living up to their oath to protect their own; the ones who have fought valiantly for this country. They HAVE PROVEN their effectiveness at coercion and twisting the crap out of the UCMJ; which was twisted enough to begin with. It didn't need any help. If you don't like this Administration, then take it out on them, Not our Marines. And where do you get off using the words, Semper Fi? To what are you faithful? It can't be the Marine Corps. You're certainly not faithful to Justice because you've already convicted them. Last time I heard; In a court of law, that is illegal. You insult the meaning of those words, just as you insult the intelligence of anyone who believes in the right to a fair trial for all. Do me a favor. Walk up to a Marine, tell him how you feel, and then look him in the eye and say, "Semper Fi".

lolly wrote on Feb 10, 2007 7:38 PM:i would think that AW4cryinoutloud would have better things to do then bash bacos... Have you ever been in this position?????? did not think so...you do not know what you would do in this situation. I do not think that he turned his back on anyone. He has a family and his first priority should be to them, not to a bunch of men that were supposed to be protecting our country, who made bad choices. They may havae been actin under orders, but they knew what they were doing was wrong. He owed it to his family and our country to stand up and tell the truth not try to cover up to protect his buddies. In the long run, the ones who have told the truth and stepped up to the plate, are the ones who I feel are the heros not the cowards who do not stand up for their mistakes and face the consequences, I mean after all he cant help what sentence he was given, meaning Bacos. That is what he was offered. So badmouthing him is not going to make this go away. Like I said earlier he had an obligation to his family also and I believe that he has a child. He owes his life to her not to making sure that he covers up for his fellow marines.

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Feb 10, 2007 11:08 PM:To lolly: No, I've never been in Bacos' position. Have you? I've stated several times, when talking about those who took plea deals, that I haven't wailked in their shoes. It's just that I believe in standing up for your own and for your own innocence. Cpl. Magincalda is trying to stand for his innocence and stand with the only man left who has not taken a bended knee to his accusers. Cpl. Magincalda also has a family who loves him and is being destroyed by his own military. You point out that Bacos has a daughter and that he owes his life to her. Well; be happy because he's done you proud. He's made a deal to "back up" the prosecution's story. He's home free. So what are you so bent about? Be happy for him. He can pick up his cards and go home. (I got that from MR1). OH! You might like to know that Sergeant Hutchins also has a precious daughter. He also actually has a family. He has a proud mother and father, he has a proud wife, and he has a proud brother; all who love him very much and are suffering far, far beyond anything Bacos will ever have to endure. You said Bacos owed it to his family to tell the truth. What truth? Agreeing to clone the investigators story? That's sad isn't it? You should read an article I found earlier this evening. There was an investigation by experts in military law in 2002'(5 years ago) into the abusive practices of NCIS and the UCMJ's failure for over 30 years to adopt key procedural "safeguards" used in civilian courts. One of the experts was Mr. Fidell; who has recently been commenting on these proceedings. He's been well aware of the problem of unlawful command influence in the UCMJ... Not to mention the abuse of power throughout NCIS. A Navy Captain, based at the Pentagon, said NCIS' system is too much about winning and not enough about justice. The P8, the Marines in Haditha, and Army Ranger Staff Sgt. Ray Girouard, are only a few of too cottonpickin' many caught up in a world of Military Injustice. This is unforgiveable. The blame doesn't lie in a lack of intelligence. It lies in man's inhumanity to man. It lies in the cruelty of those in power over others and it has been ruining the lives of decent people for years. And not ONE person in the Pentagon, the DOD, the White House, or Congress has the character or guts to change it. THAT is Abuse of Power!!! Now I understand why Chesty Puller said, "Take me to the Brig. I want to see the real Marines."

In my humble opinion wrote on Feb 11, 2007 5:08 AM: Bacos is assailed as a liar and oppurtunist, because he won't stick with the story these men made-up in advance of the crime, out under the palm trees before they grabbed and shot a non-combatant and boasted that they had gotten away with murder. Such character assassination! Such a presumption and assumption of poor character and lies! In my opinion his testimony stands out as consistent and plausible in everyway. I know that defense attorneys need to discredit a witness who brings damaging testimony, but it is dirty work.

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Feb 11, 2007 12:07 PM:To lolly and In my humble opinion: I have another humble opinion. I just found a couple more articles on Thomas. Both reported that Thomas' change of heart was heavily influenced by Bacos' testimony. Now, here's where it gets nauseating. On February 7, Bacos testified that Thomas was instrumental in kidnapping Awad but, was a good man and...that if Thomas had been the squad leader it wouldn't have happened!!! Do the two of you remember the words, "character assassination"? Let's just dump it all on Sgt. Hutchins. Reminds me of the old commercial with the little boys who are too chicken to try the new cereal so they give it to their "brother" Mikey. Bacos and Thomas are going to "give it" to their "brother". That's really admirable. Now Thomas is protected from having to testify to all the things he said about himself before. "Character Assassination"??? Yeah...Bacos, Jodka, Jackson, Shumate, and Thomas, when they get through testifying against the ones remaining... the ones who get to sit there day after day and can't say a thing in their defense while their "brothers" save their own butts. One hell of a great Justice system isn't it? Want more??? CNN is going to show an interview with Trent Thomas tomorrow. Can't wait to see if it was done in the Brig. Question is; What makes him so privileged that he can say what he wants on national television? Does the Marine Corps' not give a tinker's d*** that all of this is prejudicing any chance of fair trials for those who declare their innocence? Do you think Pennington, Magincalda and Hutchins will be invited to an interview? The two of you have the gall to whine about character assassination of Bacos. While you're at it, don't forget the Marines who are "really" the victims of character assassination; by NCIS, by the Corps', and now, by their own "brothers". One more humble opinion: If either of you were the Convening Authority, we wouldn't even have to allow any more hearings or allow anyone else to defend themselves. What do you do when you read a novel; decide halfway through that you know who the guilty person is and stop reading? Sad, because you probably missed the best part.

humble opinion wrote on Feb 11, 2007 7:37 PM:I do agree that there is a lot of manuevering by the prosecution. I was surprised and couldnt figure out why they allowed Thomas to change his plea, now I think it was so he would put the blame on Hutchins (I think it belongs there--but still this isnt the way to prove it).

shiloh wrote on Apr 6, 2007 8:05 AM:I think that he should be set free, and not treated like a criminal for protecting our country. The judge that convicts him should be strung up!!!!!