Time to move on wrote on Mar 7, 2007 9:28 PM:Please Louise, you asked for a vote and got it. You asked to let the people decide and they made their decision. It is not a shame, it is the result of educated voters casting their ballot. The time has come to really "unite solana".

A People's Victory wrote on Mar 7, 2007 9:32 PM:Special interests, carpet-bagging speculative developers, and - worst of all - REALTORS pumped more than $50,000 into a propaganda campaign against the small coastal community of Solana Beach (just 13,000 residents strong). Their opponents? A small band of grass-roots volunteers who have dedicated their lives to the community they love. The good citizens of Solana Beach were out-spent by a 10-1 margin. The media was against the cause, too, with articles in the biased NC Times and San Diego U-T slanted against the ordinance by a 4-1 margin. The two newspapers even tried to influence the vote with deceptive editorials against the ordinance, again riddled with misinformation and fear about the world-ending consequences of this undeniably positive proposal. And yet, against all odds the people have prevailed. We have determined our destiny and the City of Solana Beach will be forever better for it. Now we must work to repair the division created by the ironically named 'Unite Solana' organization that served as a front for the out-of-towners. Hopefully the tools that served the opposition cause will come to their senses and become a part of the community - instead of an enemy of it.

Kent Brockman wrote on Mar 7, 2007 10:36 PM:I, for one, welcome our new Neighborhood Preservation overlords.

Don't Take It Lying Down! wrote on Mar 7, 2007 11:52 PM:After reading the response of anti-incorporation real-estate vulture Louise Abbott ('It's a ... shame. There are some people who aren't going to take this lying down.'), I must say that I've seldom seen such a sore loser. I mean, if you're going to pick a fight - and then you LOSE - you should at least display a little humility. But this isn't even Abbott's first time LOSING this way! Time and again she has fought against her own community with anti-neighborhood vitriol. and every time she has lost. After more than twenty years of losing you would think she's learned her lesson! But bullies seldom do learn lessons. I just hope that she does NOT take this lying down. NO, definitely NOT! She should instead pack up and move on to some other neighborhood she can pick on.

Tom wrote on Mar 8, 2007 12:05 AM:I'm absolutely amazed that the vote was so close! The opposition had no business getting as many votes as they did, but when you LIE and spread FEAR and PROPAGANDA to advance your SELFISH, GREEDY interests then I guess you're going to con a lot of poor suckers into voting your way. But you lost. Move on. Get a life and if you have a problem with the outcome then move away and leave Solana Beach to the people who actually care about it. You know, the ones who WON. I was once wondering how Dan Chambers got sucked into being a tool of the Realtors PAC. To paraphrase his response... "Well-well look. I already told you: I deal with the customers so the engineers don't have to. I have people skills; I am good at dealing with people. Can't you understand that? What the hell is wrong with you people?" Nothing now, Dan. Nothing at all is wrong. We saved our community from the likes of YOU.

Intimidated wrote on Mar 8, 2007 12:25 AM:The vote was far closer than it should have been, but besides the lies and fear tactics that others have reported throughout the dirty campaign by the Realtors group, another factor was in play. There were many voters who were intimidated and in some cases threatened against voting Yes on Prop A. Yes signs were stolen and defaced, literal gangs of outsiders from the Realtors and hired Oceanside political consultants trolled the neighborhoods of Solana Beach scaring voters against turning out. For Solana Beach, the turnout of this election was VERY low. Imagine what the result would have been if it were a clean campaign! We'll never know, and thankfully enough voters were courageous enough to turn out for the Yes vote to save our beautiful city.

4 for 4 in SB wrote on Mar 8, 2007 12:49 AM:How to Lose An Election in Solana Beach: 1. Get a special interest group outside the zip code to spend oodles of money on daily misleading mailers; 2. Revive former counsel members Dodson and Renteria and ask them to join your band of deceptors; 3. Require Dodson to hold signs on freeway for 30 minutes before she heads back to RSF; 4. Ensure that Joe K. is "with you" on this one; 5. Get John Chamberlain of American Assets to blanket commercial property with your signs.

4 for 4 in SB wrote on Mar 8, 2007 12:59 AM:How to Lose an Election in SB 1. Make sure Joe K. is on your side; 2. Revive Dodson and Renteria for letters of endorsement; 3. Have John Chamberlain of American Assets blanket the commercial property he managers with your signs; 4. Require Dodson to hold your sign for 30 minutes MINIMUM before driving back to RSF; 5. Get a really large special interest group to pump thousands into your campaign and require them to pay for daily misleading mailers; 6. Make sure the special interest group does not have any ties to your city;

Wow wrote on Mar 8, 2007 6:50 AM:I don't think I've ever seen such a bunch of sore winners...

keep on gloating wrote on Mar 8, 2007 6:53 AM:The truth here is that the No side was up against the political machinery of 4 of 5 city councilmembers, the city manager who is their employee, and an activist organization that has been doing this for 13 years. and we made you guys sweat like you never have before. so gloat all you want, the real message here is that you've overextended yourselves and your power is on the decline. the best part is, you know it!!

JP wrote on Mar 8, 2007 6:57 AM:Don't worry people, the rest of north county is very receptive to your oversized fruity pink, err...salmon, McMansions with faux shutters and goofy turrets. Mediocrity never sleeps.

To "4 for 4" wrote on Mar 8, 2007 7:12 AM:Next time you might try organizing your thoughts before sending them in. What a bunch of classless individuals. Does 67 votes really seem like a mandate to all of you? Had this been on a regular ballot instead of an unnecessary special election, it would have lost by 10 points. Which of course is why the special was called instead of waiting until next spring. Democracy thanks you.

Uneven Playing Field wrote on Mar 8, 2007 8:22 AM:Let's see.... Outside special interests pumping tens of thousands into shell 'community organizations', developers and speculators spreading fear tactics and confusion, and biased media spewing anti-community disinformation. On the other side you have a group knowledgable, caring community activists. Only in Solana Beach would right triumph. Thank GOD I live here.

Not quite united wrote on Mar 8, 2007 8:43 AM:I find it entertaining that the opponents to Proposition A claim that the supporters are dividing the city by their work. However the supporters were all able to "unite" behind a single organization (Save Old Solana) and drive a unified message behind adopting Prop A. The opposition was running no less than 3 different groups; "Real Property Rights" -> Louise Abbott and Marion Dodson who brought in the Realtors to spam our community with a big-bucks campaign; "Unite Solana" -> Dan Chambers who's strategy was to confuse the heck out of everyone with twisted bits of logical failures; and "Common Sense" -> Norma Rhum who simply fights any city council. Why don't the start with uniting themselves before they tackle something big like the entire city?

Sore who? wrote on Mar 8, 2007 10:16 AM:Posters 'Wow' and 'keep on gloating' are clearly confused. Sore winners? Read the quotes from Dan Chambers and Louise Abbott. The vitriol and LIES from the opposition (outsider special interests) was unparalleled in Solana Beach. The comment about 'political machinery' is a JOKE! This is Solana Beach, not San Diego. You must be an outsider to make such a ridiculous statement. And the supposed 'activist organization' you mention is a small group of volunteers who were outspent more than 10-1 by your overlords. Gimme a break. It took 14 years to finally boot Marion Dodson and her band of developer shills from the City Council to get representatives who actually REPRESENT US. The 'real message here' is that you outsiders lost. You lost. Did not win. Despite your lies, fear mongering, embarrassing mailers, and fake community organization tools, you outsiders just plain lost. Put your tail between your legs and GO AWAY.

The real lesson here wrote on Mar 8, 2007 10:20 AM:The "Real Lesson Here" is that no matter how many times liars repeat lies, they don't become truth. The Realtors PAC and developers manning the blitzkrieg against Solana Beach fooled a lot of people - enough to make it close. But their lies were never going to be truth. They lied, they spread fear, and the good people of Solana Beach saw through it. We saw through Marion Dodson (hey, we kicked her out of Solana Beach politics for a REASON) and we saw through anti-neighborhood Louise Abbott. Homeowners in Solana Beach won. Big money leaches lost.

Alf wrote on Mar 8, 2007 10:53 AM:Although I was (and still am) against the concept and the actual Prop A, I live in Encinitas and hope that the outcome will make the people of Solana Beach happy. Can we, as people, stop the bickering and insults and accept what has been decided?

Not Sweating Much wrote on Mar 8, 2007 11:34 AM:The honest truth is that in a general election Prop A would've passed by 10 percentage points. It's much easier to draw out the "No" vote in a special election. In fact, with Prop A being a special election, the resources available to the opponents, the flaws in the original ordinance, the head-start given by the referendum petition circulation, and the amount of press and press errors supporting the "No" side this proposition should've been easy to defeat. The fact that the three groups of organization opposition couldn't work together to do this in a coordinated fashion shows that there isn't much to worry about from them for some time to come.

67 vote mandate wrote on Mar 8, 2007 11:34 AM:To the poster from 7:12 AM, YES, 67 votes IS a mandate when the election was a small group of volunteer community protectors against a PAC juggernaut and developers like American Assets blanketing our beautiful city with disgusting signs and propaganda mailers.

McMansion Developer wrote on Mar 8, 2007 11:39 AM:In light of the recent vote, I'll be moving my McMansion-building business out of Solana Beach. You people are going to really miss out on the huge, cubic, generic, concrete monoliths that have enhanced such lucky neighbors as Bay Park and Cardiff. Too bad for you. You'll now be stuck with sunlight, yards, and breathing room. Sure, you can still build huge homes, but you can't fill up tiny lots, so I can't maximize my profits. And since I'm not there to build McMansions that tower over and impose on their neighbors, fewer of you will get fed up and move out - meaning less business for the leaching Realtors. Aren't you disappointed?

Have some class wrote on Mar 8, 2007 11:57 AM:Gloating is bad form. Not exactly the way to "pull together." Time to look to the future and stop living in 1969 (or 2006).

No waiting to protect our City wrote on Mar 8, 2007 12:03 PM:The individual "To 4 for 4" implies that the result would be different on a regular ballot. Of course it would have. It would have been a LANDSLIDE for the Yes vote because the outside PAC and shill organizations wouldn't have been able to spread their propaganda so effectively in a regular election where candidates and other issues would have garnered more attention. The right-wing media wouldn't have jumped on your No bandwagon either. You clearly know NOTHING about politics in Solana Beach. By the way, when you challenge someone to a fight, be prepared for them to hit back. You conned people into signing your petition to force and election, then when the Council scheduled the election you sued to stop it. Are those few McMansions that you're trying to stuff down our throats that important? All you cared about was getting your permits approved, so you tried to delay, delay, delay. You started the fight and you lost. THAT is democracy in action. You wanted initiative government and you got it. Be careful what you ask for next time.

Confused wrote on Mar 8, 2007 12:07 PM:Didn't the Prop A opponents want it to go to a vote? They got their way and now complain about the outcome. That makes no sense to me. You wanted to run the city at the ballot box so you got your way. You spent $50k and lost. Get over it. Stop making excuses and complaining. You lost. Think about it. You were WRONG. You wasted our time, wasted our money, split the community with your lies and fear tactics, and in the end we are exactly where we were months ago. The same ordinance is on the books. YOU LOST. MOVE ON. Democracy worked YET AGAIN.

You ARE confused wrote on Mar 8, 2007 1:40 PM:We never wanted a special election. You guys wanted one because you knew voter turnout would be lower -- which it was -- and that your side would be more motivated to turn out -- which it did. It was very smart strategically on your part, and it worked, so you might as well take credit for it.

We have class wrote on Mar 8, 2007 2:03 PM:Gloating? I'm sure David gloated just a bit after slaying Goliath. Here we have an overwhelming force blitzing our small city with LIES and fear. Talk about NO CLASS!! And after forcing a vote - and getting exactly what was coming to them - now we have Louise Abbott and Dan Chambers running off at the mouth. How about a little humility, losers? At least the American Assets guy and the Realtors PAC have kept their traps shut (so far). Give me a break. You picked a fight, forced the issue, LIED like bandits, had the upper hand in every way possible, AND YOU LOST. Accept it and move on. Maybe you can learn a lesson in neighborliness and honesty from this loss. Maybe you can stop looking out for your selfish interests and think about the community (if you even live here). Okay, that's asking way too much.

To Alf wrote on Mar 8, 2007 2:06 PM:Alf, how big of you to suggest that we 'stop the bickering and insults and accept what has been decided.' Too bad you couldn't take that approach when you were meddling in an issue that you still CLEARLY don't understand. And so you continue to meddle. You tried to influence the people of Solana Beach - just like all the other outsiders - and not enough were fooled by your misrepresentations (intentional or otherwise). Yes, the people of Solana Beach are going to be VERY happy, thank you, but if you really wanted that then you would have saved your commentary and stayed out of our business.

What a joke wrote on Mar 8, 2007 3:41 PM:These references to "David vs. Goliath" and "citizens group vs. outside interests" are laughable. The "citizens group" has controlled the city council for the better part of the past decade and is the reason why the badly flawed 349 was passed in the first place. The outside developers were non-existent in this race because there's NOTHING LEFT TO DEVELOP in a city that's 99% built out. Realtors make their living off of high property values. If A would have helped preserve property values, the realtors would have been on your side. They weren't because it doesn't. I'm not a realtor but I don't need to be to understand basic real estate economics.

no, you don't wrote on Mar 8, 2007 3:47 PM:If you have to say "we have class," then chances are you really don't. Here's the way it works: the losing side is expected to be sore because, well, they lost. The winning side is expected to be gracious and humble in victory. But I guess that's expecting too much from a group that counts sign thieves and vote suppressors among their midst.

Party for 67 wrote on Mar 8, 2007 3:53 PM:We want to celebrate the Big W so please get the word out that there will be a block party at the end of Marview near L. Abbott's home at sunset. It is being quickly pulled together but organizers promise llama rides, face painting and muzak... I don't think Louise will be home so we might be able to use her bathroom.

Alf to To Alf wrote on Mar 8, 2007 4:01 PM:Your 2:06 post is out of line. I accepted the vote and wished the people of Solana Beach well, and you feel the need to insult again. I was, am and always will be against anything that restricts property owners' rights. My comments prior to the election were to try go get people to think, to look in the long term, to act rather than react. Now that the vote has been made, I see no reason to say anything negative, IT IS DONE. By your thinking, the people of Solana Beach should shut their traps about anything other than their city's affairs, lest they be meddling. I do not agree. The web comments is precisely so that ANYONE can voice their opinion, subject to the rules and common decency.

From San Marcos wrote on Mar 8, 2007 4:11 PM:Congratulations ! You did it. We have all been pulling for you up here in 'developer-council-land'. We saw first hand what big money from developers and special interests could do here in the last 2 elections and the 'appointment' of the person who worked on all of the council majorities campaigns - she "only washed signs" and they now have a rubber stamp. What is your secret ? We requested a special election to fill our vacant council seat and were told that it would cost the City $225,000.00 because there were no other special elections planned and we would have had to pay the entire cost. They won and the people lost here. Bravo for those of you in Solana Beach !

Classic comment wrote on Mar 8, 2007 4:28 PM:I'll frame this one: "We never wanted a special election." That's right, you never wanted a special election because the only thing opponents were really interested in was postponing the ordinance for their own selfish benefit. They just wanted to plop down a bunch of McMansions before the sh!t hit the fan in 2008. But as another poster remarked, you picked a fight, so you have to step up. And the opponents certainly did! I haven't seen such a dirty campaign since I was a wee boy in Chicago back in the 40s. Slimy mailers, bald-faced lies, and scare tactics that would make the Bush administration proud - you did it all! You pulled out all the stops, but this isn't Chula Vista. The people of Solana Beach (well, about 51% of them) saw right through your garbage and did was was best for the community.

Surprised wrote on Mar 8, 2007 4:30 PM:I'm surprised the Realtors Association didn't try to buy votes by offering commission discounts for no votes. They used just about every other underhanded, dirty move they could think of.

Encinitas loudmALF wrote on Mar 8, 2007 4:33 PM:LoudmALF chimes in again. So good of you to render your superior judgement and honorable plea for reconciliation on us poor plebes of inferior Solana Beach. What, oh what would we do without your endless guidance?

Have some class wrote on Mar 8, 2007 4:47 PM:I didn't have a dog in this fight, but it sounds to me like the people who won are full of hatred and venom, especially when they say things like "you LOST, you LOST, you LOST!" and "move out of town." I think EVERYONE (including the winners) needs to move on. Goodness gracious. (NOT)

Realtors money wrote on Mar 8, 2007 4:56 PM:One comment above stated that "Realtors make their living off of high property values." That is actually not true. Realtors make their living off of transactions. Poor community planning leads to higher turnover and therefore more transactions. I'm sick of that false argument. Realtors oppose ALL development restrictions, yet the areas with the highest values have the tightest development restrictions. Number don't lie, Realtors do.

Sign Thieves and Vote Suppressors wrote on Mar 8, 2007 4:58 PM:Someone typed that there were "sign thieves and vote suppressors" on the neighborhood side. That's absolutely false. It's another example of accusing your opposition of your own dirty tricks. Why does this person bring it up now any way? That's just sour grapes. Let's all move on! Will the "No-No's" ever let it go?

Laurence wrote on Mar 8, 2007 5:02 PM:I read the comment above that states "the citizens group has controlled the city council for the better part of the past decade." I am compelled to correct that. The VOTERS have overwhelmingly elected this city council in response to an out-of-touch, developers' shill of a council that was led by Rancho Santa Fe's Marion Dodson. Once the citizens of Solana Beach found some competent, respectful, and responsive candidates, we elected them. And we have been very happy with them. The anti-mansionization ordinance was more than 2 years in the works. This was a very well known effort in Solana Beach and until the outsiders started their campaign of fear and lies, it was a very well received and widely supported ordinance. When are the No people going to give up? Enough with the bitter comments. Can you just move on? Are you going to attack our city indefinitely??

Tired of the attacks wrote on Mar 8, 2007 5:08 PM:I can't believe what I'm reading here! The vote is over and the No people lost. Why are they still bickering and complaining? What do you have to gain besides further dividing this wonderful town? I think you have already caused enough damage. I've had the opportunity to meet with the leaders on both sides of the issue. I decided to vote Yes because I was impressed with the graciousness, humility, and genuine care displayed by the people of Save Old Solana. The other groups just seemed to be interested in their own interests. Dan Chambers and Louise Abbott were so mean spirited that I was physically uncomfortable in their presence. I am so surprised that they got as many votes as they did. Apparently the mass mailers and scatter-shot yard signs are more effective than I would have thought. I'm just so happy that selfishness didn't win over our community.

Dog fight? wrote on Mar 8, 2007 5:11 PM:The person named 'Have some class' wrote about a dog fight. Too bad it came down to that. Until the outsider realtors and developers got involved we never saw such a dirty campaign in Solana Beach. I'm very disappointed. I won't be hiring a realtor for my next real estate transaction. Now I hear that they are trying to put together an initiative to repeal the results of this election! They are the ones who wanted it to go to a vote in the first place and now that they lost they want another vote? When will it end?

Right... wrote on Mar 8, 2007 5:13 PM:So the realtors deliberately tried to drive down Solana Beach property values by opposing A? That might be the dumbest argument in this whole mess of stupidity I've heard yet. Of course realtors make their money off of transactions, but do you suppose they'd prefer them be higher dollar value or lower dollar value? If Del Mar is so great, perhaps you should move there...

Alf wrote on Mar 8, 2007 5:14 PM:The blogger who calls him/herself "Encinitas loudmALF" has a problem. This person just does not seem to get it. The vote is over and yet the rancor continues from "Encinitas loudmALF", not from me. We are, however, entitled to our opinions. MOVE ON. NEXT!

Six Percent wrote on Mar 8, 2007 5:15 PM:As a Realtor, I was very, very disappointed with the way the North San Diego County Association of Realtors (NSDCAR) ran their No on A campaign. For the first time in my long career, I was embarrassed to be a Realtor. I believe that we need to reevaluate our leadership at NSDCAR in light of their anti-community priorities.

You must have missed wrote on Mar 8, 2007 5:17 PM:the news reports of the admitted SOS and Prop A supporter who was cited and fined by the police for stealing No on A yard signs over the weekend. That is absolute fact. Do you still want to dispute it or should we post the police report on here?

Who is Alf? wrote on Mar 8, 2007 5:22 PM:Did this Alf person vote? Does he live in Solana Beach? Does he have any understanding of the history, people, or issues? It doesn't seem so. He seems to just be filled with criticism and malcontent. Maybe he's another developer just trying to influence people, but the election is over. Let's all move on. Why can't Alf let it go?

And now... wrote on Mar 8, 2007 5:22 PM:HERE COME THE LAWSUITS!!!!! 67 VOTES IS TOO CLOSE FOR THIS TO PASS. INJUNCTIONS WILL BE FILED AND PROGRESS WILL CONTINUE BECAUSE IT'S NOT POOR BEACHBUMS WHO MAKE PROGRESS IT'S THE OWNERS OF THESE LARGE DEVELOPMENTS. WE HAVE THE MONEY AND THE TIME DO YOU?

Jacinda wrote on Mar 8, 2007 5:24 PM:I moved to Solana Beach last year in part because I was happy to see a progressive community taking steps to prevent unlimited development and McMansion proliferation. It seems like so many people don't realize just how lucky they are to live in a place like Solana Beach. In my time here I've met so many wonderful people that it's hard to believe how mean-spirited the 'No' people are and that they're actually among us.

All Caps wrote on Mar 8, 2007 5:26 PM:That, my friends is the voice of the opposition. Sore, selfish losers. What a shame that they've moved in to our wonderful home town.

Never satisfied wrote on Mar 8, 2007 5:28 PM:The post above in capitalized letters is disappointing. They wanted a vote, and at great expense to our small city they got one. They ran a dirty campaign and we let them get away with it. They brought in outsiders and hired political consultants, and now they aren't happy that they lost so they are going to sue. What a shame. I feel great sorrow for such hollow individuals.

One more time... wrote on Mar 8, 2007 5:35 PM:We have the money and time to put it on the ballot once again ALSO to have an injunction before this can take effect because there are constitutional issues to be decided. You will lose eventually. We're capitalists this country was founded on people who develop. We'll win our bank accounts are WAY larger than yours!

Alf? wrote on Mar 8, 2007 5:39 PM:Why has Alf migrated from the Letters to the Editor section to this story? The vote is over, Alf. You aren't going to bring anyone over to the No side now. The ordinance passed.

Margaret wrote on Mar 8, 2007 5:41 PM:I am happy to read that Proposition A passed. But I am surprised at the continuing mean spirited attacks by the opponents. Why are these people so anti-social? We all live together in this small community. Can't you put your vitriol aside and let it go? I know it is hard to accept defeat, but complaining and making wild accusations is no way to move on.

Alf wrote on Mar 8, 2007 5:43 PM:You ask, "Who is Alf?", you receive. I live in Encinitas, therefore I did not vote in your election. I built my own house here in Encinitas. My 10:53 post was a response to the bickering that I saw. I suggested stopping the bickering and letting go and was insulted. I, as stated in my 4:01pm post, am against reducing property rights. That is who I am and it seems that we both suggested the same thing, but since I live in Encinitas, I was insulted.

Facts of life wrote on Mar 8, 2007 5:46 PM:The person boasting about another ballot or an injunction is pretty out of touch with the reality of law in California. The people voted this in and the council overwhelmingly supported it. It is now law. By the way, we are all capitalists, and you have no idea what we have in our bank accounts. Finally, not that you need a reminder, but you've lost every time. Every time. None of your idle threats have come true yet, and it's been years.

Encinitas Alf keeps posting wrote on Mar 8, 2007 5:51 PM:I'm not sure what Alf's goal is, but blanketing a board with posts isn't the way to get it. Now that we know he's a builder, his opposition to a pro-community ordinance makes some sense.

I like Alf wrote on Mar 8, 2007 5:53 PM:I agree with Alf in that I, too, am against reducing property rights. That's why I voted YES on Proposition A. Maybe Alf should do some research to see what the ordinance will actually do - and what similar ordinances have done in other coastal cities - before posting his knee-jerk reactions all over NC Times.

SOS 5, Developers 0 wrote on Mar 8, 2007 5:57 PM:Thank you to the dedicated volunteers of our community's true representatives, Save Old Solana. They ran a clean, respectful campaign. They worked hard to dispel a barrage of blatant lies that even influenced the local newspapers. And in the end they educated enough people to the true issues that every citizen of Solana Beach won on Tuesday. Even those who voted no will soon realize the benefits - in private property rights, privacy, and property values - that the anti-mansionization ordinance will bring. Thank you again!

Hmmm...let's see wrote on Mar 8, 2007 6:01 PM:2/3 of the comments on here are from Yes people, including 7 of the first 8 after the story was published last night. They just couldn't wait to gloat over their slim victory. And they call the No side mean-spirited... Please.

Propagandists lose wrote on Mar 8, 2007 6:03 PM:My father fought the Nazi propaganda machine in WW2, and I fought the victims of the Viet Cong propaganda 'Nam. Lies and manipulation by fear may never go away, but they seldom win the day. Thankfully enough people in Solana Beach were able to see through the insulting caricatures and fake letters on the blitz of "NO" mailers to vote for what was best for our city. I love this town and am glad to live out my years here.

Martin wrote on Mar 8, 2007 6:07 PM:I am about to sell one of my homes in Encinitas. Can someone recommend a way to post my house on the MLS without using a realtor? I just don't feel right giving a realtor so much money when their organization seems so mean spirited. Why did they feel the need to attack a little town like Solana Beach?

Keeping track wrote on Mar 8, 2007 6:13 PM:Someone likes typing "..." in their anonymous names. I wonder who??? ;) Seriously, though, interesting statistics on the number of people posting comments. It seems to me that perhaps there is actually a higher number of supporters posting than you think since many of the sore loser (No) comments appear to be from the same person. I think this is an indication of how confused the No voters were. The Realtor PAC succeeded in creating a lot of fear and confusion to garner No votes. They didn't win many friends.

Gerald wrote on Mar 8, 2007 6:16 PM:I've been a plumber in Solana Beach for the past 25 years. I work on a lot of large homes in Solana Beach including a lot of new ones. The way I read it, there are only a couple of houses in Solana Beach that don't fit into the reasonable limits of the neighborhood preservation ordinance. I was disappointed in what I saw on all those No mailers. People who knew better ignored them, but I think they got a lot of votes from people who were scared. Dan Chambers should be ashamed to be associated with those liars.

Selfish realtors wrote on Mar 8, 2007 6:18 PM:First the realtors talk about increasing their already bloated commissions and hoarding the MLS, then the N.SD Realtors Assoc. comes out in favor of another tax, and now they pick on a small town like this. I will never use another realtor again.

Good Karma wrote on Mar 8, 2007 6:26 PM:Someone wrote that the Proposition A vote was a choice between neighborliness and selfishness. That was a very good way to frame the decision at hand. The opponents were only able to articulate selfish motives. Not once did they imply that voting No would help the community or their neighbors. Indeed, the leaders of the opposition weren't even from Solana Beach. The proponents of Prop A, on the other hand, were concerned only with the welfare of the community as a whole. When we look out for the good of our fellow humans, rather than selfishly hoarding with no concern for our neighbors, we invite good karma. Tuesday's result was just that - the result of good karma. I love Solana Beach, and I am proud to call this small town my home.

Mr. McMansion wrote on Mar 8, 2007 6:35 PM:Wow. I'm surprised that the big money my cronies at the Realtors Association pumped into Solana Beach didn't win the day. How are we going to create a homogenized McCoast if we can't build our McMansions? Shame on the people of Solana Beach for defending their community!

McRealtors McLose wrote on Mar 8, 2007 6:42 PM:The news seems to be that the McRealtors and McDevelopers that want to blanket small towns with crammed McMansions have McLost despite all their McMoney. Who would have thought a small town could beat back the horde?

Monica wrote on Mar 8, 2007 6:44 PM:Congrats to the reasonable residents of SB. I'm glad you all stood up for yourselves and protected your community. Based upon what I've seen in pictures and driving through SB, the over sized houses are really out of place in the area and I think it would be unfair and rather rude to block the views long time residents have with the monstrosities some people wish to build. As usual some only think about themselves and not their communities.

Gwen wrote on Mar 8, 2007 7:09 PM:To the person who wrote something to the effect of "neighborliness vs selfishness" - that is a fantastic way to look at it. Monica's comment was along the same lines. I don't think SOS did a very good job of relaying that message, but it really would have hit home with a lot of people. I think that describes the issue very well.

Alf wrote on Mar 8, 2007 7:19 PM:If I must repeat, I must. "My 10:53 post was a response to the bickering that I saw." I was hoping, beyond hope apparently, that there would be civil discourse. Prior to the vote, I had made comments. Rather than fan the flames of bickering, I was trying to point out that IT IS DONE, the winners won and there is no need to keep arguing. I was wrong. It is apparent that neither side will accept the vote, both sides will insult and accuse. (I built my house myself, with my 2 hands, I sculpted my acre, I have damned good reason to voice my opinion, more reason than someone who has not driven every nail, sweated every copper joint, drilled every hole, snaked every wire in their house and left pieces of skin and drops of blood in their house that is their home like I did.) I earned my right to voice my opinion by my sweat. If any of the people who insult me have done what I did, let them speak. I came into this today in a spirit of peace, I leave with a challenge - If any of you have built their 2 story house from the ground up, (themselves - as carpenter, plumber, electrician and roofer), then you qualify to come forward and insult me, if not, back the hell off. Am I perfectly clear?

A Bit Touchy wrote on Mar 8, 2007 7:33 PM:Good thing Alf didn't have any skin in the game in the Prop A vote. For one, his skin seems pretty thin, and besides that he seems to have a healthy temper - not to mention an enlarged sense of entitlement. I guess building your own house in another city gives you license to tell us what we should think or do in ours. And you still fail to address the issues of this ordinance. Are your posts just going to escalate indefinitely in an upward spiral of rage? Why can't you just accept that there are intelligent people in this world who may choose not to agree with you? I've read the comments you spoke about, and I wouldn't have taken them so personally. But I don't know you or what your baggage is, so it's not for me to say what your motives are.

Count wrote on Mar 8, 2007 7:54 PM:Alf wasn't too far off. 15 of 16 posts before his 1053post this morning were using fighting words like overlords, liar and stuff like that. He asked for peace based on those numbers. In his 719pmpost he does sound like a builder all right, a builder of 1. Sounds like a tycoon to me to.

Brenda wrote on Mar 8, 2007 8:09 PM:I am so proud of the people of Solana Beach for standing up to the Realtors, developers, speculators, and other special interests by passing this pro-community ordinance. The turn-out was low, but my neighbors and I agree that was mostly due to people being turned off by the Realtors dirty tactics. In a general election, Prop A would have passed by a huge margin.

Alf to A Bit Touchy wrote on Mar 8, 2007 8:29 PM:I guess that I should be pleased at being addressed as "Encinitas loudmALF" and being told that I do not understand that one side won, that Prop A increases what is considered Floor Area and reduces the F.A.R. My baggage is "small town politicians" in general, not necessarily in Solana Beach and a previous Mayor of my "fair" city who abused her position of authority to obstruct a subdivision map on some of our property. My motive prior to the election was as stated in my 4:01 p.m. post. That obstructionism, combined with building my house, our home, myself, has made me keenly aware of property rights. This stupid Prop 83 showed me that people are willing to flush rights of another down the drain. So I called out for people to beware and was told I was meddling, I called out for less bickering and I am told I'm meddling and insulted. You ask that I accept that there intelligent people who disagree with me, I do. What does this "Can we, as people, stop the bickering and insults and accept what has been decided?" (as I said in my 10:53 a.m. post) look like to you? Am I insulting, or calling anyone names or demeaning anyone in any way? Hell, with the exception of the very first post, I wrote the least offensive and the most peaceful language up to that point. And I would have gracefully bowed out had not my good will been returned with snide insults.

Alf wrote on Mar 8, 2007 8:32 PM: When you buy something you have less connection to it than if you build it. The challenge I issued at 7:19 p.m. still stands.

To Count wrote on Mar 8, 2007 9:06 PM:Are you proposing that the opposition to Prop A didn't lie throughout their propaganda blasts at the community? If so, you have no credibility. Also, are you proposing that the post by "Kent Brockman" that used the term "overlords" (which you directly referenced) was anything more than a joke? Besides that, the comment was anti-Prop A. As far as your reference to "fighting words" - the campaign is over. There is no more fight, and the only fight during the campaign was one-sided attacks by the realtors and their shills.

Alf's challenge wrote on Mar 8, 2007 9:13 PM:What purpose does your challenge really have? You aren't the only person to have built their own home, Alf. I just wonder why you keep posting about Solana Beach. People are clearly not interested in hearing from outsiders on this issue - especially after the vote. If you lived here and received the near-daily mass mailers from the Realtors with insulting caricatures, misleading graphs, and outright lies riddled throughout, then you might have a different perspective. The 'No' group that you promote in your posts was made up of a huge commercial real estate developer, a Realtors association, and a few people who have fought every community initiative in Solana Beach for years - parks, trails, incorporation, community events, everything. Your issue in Encinitas just does not equate in any way to what Prop A is about. Prop A was created to combat exactly what you complained about. I'm quite sure that if you lived in Solana Beach and were involved in the 2 years of planning and input that went into this ordinance that you would have supported it.

Cindy wrote on Mar 8, 2007 9:15 PM:Since when is the word "lies" a so-called fighting word? If they lied then they lied, and they did. Why tiptoe around it by calling it otherwise?

Count is humorless wrote on Mar 8, 2007 9:19 PM:Kent Brockman is the reporter on The Simpsons (an animated television show). The community in which The Simpsons is based is routinely invaded by aliens, etc and Kent's standard line after an invasion is "I, for one, welcome our new _____ overlords." It's a joke, and a pretty funny one at that. Personally, I supported Prop A and that joke is against Prop A, but it is undeniably funny. There aren't any 'fighting words' there. Oh, and just for your information, this isn't Shootout at the OK Coral and you aren't a cowboy, so you might not want to use that term too much.

Greg in Solana Beach wrote on Mar 8, 2007 9:27 PM:Alf, I built my home in Solana Beach with my brother in 1961. We both voted yes on Tuesday.

Alf wrote on Mar 9, 2007 5:41 AM:To the people who posted between my post at 8:32pm and 9:27pm - Thank you for being civil. I appreciate and respect your opinions.

its won and done wrote on Mar 9, 2007 4:51 PM:good nite alf.

Good grief! wrote on Mar 9, 2007 7:59 PM:Lay off already, Alf! The election is over and the No side lost. I voted no, too, but in retrospect I realize that I just didn't know the issue very well. If the vote were today I would have certainly voted yes. I'm glad my vote didn't lose it!

John wrote on Mar 12, 2007 1:18 PM:Sounds to me like the people have spoken. Now watch the loosers take this to court and have it overturned.

Darryl wrote on Mar 12, 2007 5:17 PM:The result of this election really doesn't matter. Big money realtors groups and developers will fight to no end - and despite any number of elections - to eliminate all restrictions. All they want to see are Wal-Marts, strip malls, office building ground cover, McMansions, and condo buildings. Character and neighborhood mean nothing to those people.

Alf To Good grief, John and Darryl wrote on Mar 13, 2007 8:37 AM:Maybe, just maybe, you should also give it a rest. Or is bad-mouthing limited to residents of Solana Beach? I stopped offering my opinions about the proposition, the election is over and done with, the people of Solana Beach decided their fate and the Yes side won. What keeps fueling your need to grump? about winning, 5 days after the election?

It won't stop wrote on Mar 13, 2007 9:35 AM:Greedy realtors and speculative developers only see the dollar signs. For the realtors, a 6% commission on the $2 - $5 million homes in the Prop A zones is $120k to $300k. That's more than these unskilled leaches would ever dream of earning in any other industry - so naturally they will fight for the kind of uncontrolled development that will cause the established residents to sell out. Greed normally wins the day, but Solana Beach is apparently a lucky exception... for now. The money to be made by destroying neighborhoods is too much for them to take their medicine and go away. Plan to see pro-McMansion and pro-strip mall initiatives soon. All you have to do is look at that proposal for a new strip mall by the train station to see that it's already happening.

Still with the Alf wrote on Mar 13, 2007 9:52 AM:Man, this Alf guy just doesn't let up! Ever heard of the concept of 'live and let live'? Why does he feel the need to keep badgering people about this Prop A mess? I voted no, but with people like him lurking out there berating and criticizing everyone about it, I wish I hadn't! I just don't want to be associated with that kind of bitterness.

Agree with Darryl wrote on Mar 13, 2007 9:58 AM:Until there's a Starbucks, Panera, and Jamba Juice on every block there will be no rest. Homogenization seems to be the ultimate goal. Solana Beach is a target because we still have small businesses, an eclectic community, and free will to resist the assimilation into the non-culture that defines most of America. The McMansions that these outsiders are building look like something out of Arizona, Texas, or Georgia. I hope the people of Solana Beach fight for one of the few remaining cities in the US that actually has an individual identity.

Alf didn't read wrote on Mar 13, 2007 10:00 AM:the comment from 'Good grief!' because if he did he would see that person voted no. Don't lump everyone together. You're out of touch, and that's fine. Just keep out of it if you don't know what's going on.

Don't feed the troll wrote on Mar 13, 2007 10:10 AM:You people should stop posting to/about Alf. He doesn't even live in Solana Beach! I think he just posts to start arguments.

big mAlf wrote on Mar 13, 2007 10:17 AM:Just say no to Alf. Ignore trolls and they go away.

Alf to It won't stop wrote on Mar 13, 2007 10:24 AM:Is the "new strip mall by the train station" within theareas designated by Prop. A? I do not know. If it is not, and if you as a Solana Beach resident, should do something right now - grant grandfather clauses to all existing structures upon which building is done or commenced and include ALL of Solana Beach in another Prop. A sort of thing. But you gotta watch out - the same charge, "they won't stop until they have it all", may be leveled at you. I am in favor of an informed people deciding what they want, they did so, if need be grump at the next thing. Please, Prop A passed, I am leaving that subject alone and others keep on acting as if Prop A either did not pass or it was not enough. Look at the title of this article.

Never Ending wrote on Mar 13, 2007 10:32 AM:I can't believe people are still posting about this. I guess Louise Abbott was right when she said her band of No-No's wouldn't accept the result of the election they forced. We're in for a long haul fighting off these selfish people.

Alf to Alf didn't read wrote on Mar 13, 2007 10:34 AM:What part of IT IS YOU WHO KEEP GRUMPING, ADDING COMMENTS and acting as if you have an endless spleen to vent. It was not until this "keep your nose out of it" and "they won't stop" bull kept up a week after the election that I added a voice of reason. Who won't let go? By the way, as it regards this "keep out of it" manure, stop slinging it, I am a homeowner and am allowed to have views on property rights whether you like it or not, but then you are shoulder deep in it if someone can't suggest peace.

Say What? wrote on Mar 13, 2007 10:35 AM:Alf, you are so far out of touch that it's embarrassing. I'm embarrassed FOR you. The strip mall planned for North Cedros is in a commercially zoned area. Why would Prop A have anything to do with that? PLEASE get a clue before you post some nonesense. How can you say you are 'in favor of an informed people deciding what they want' and then post something that you don't have any idea about??? The Solana Beach City Council agendas and a detailed EIR on the North Cedros strip mall project are public record. Research, buddy. Don't just spew.

Leaving it alone wrote on Mar 13, 2007 10:37 AM:Alf, you post that "Prop A passed, I am leaving that subject alone" but you KEEP POSTING! What gives? Give it a rest already! You were against Prop A (who knows why since you don't even live in SB, much less an affected area) and you've made that very well known. Prop A passed by the voters - not the city council - so stop harping on it!

I'm with Alf on this one wrote on Mar 13, 2007 10:57 AM:I've heard of sore losers, but sore winners? All I saw was a guy saying what he thought, even if I didn't like it. As a resident of Solana Beach, I am ashamed of the way some of us have acted. Stop and let the guy speak, it's sometimes funny.

To Leaving it alone wrote on Mar 13, 2007 12:08 PM:I read along and It won't stop 9:35am was saying that "The money to be made by destroying neighborhoods is too much for them to take their medicine and go away. Plan to see pro-McMansion and pro-strip mall initiatives soon. All you have to do is look at that proposal for a new strip mall by the train station to see that it's already happening.". Alf 10:24 responded with reasonable suggestions. He did not insult anyone. Read it for yourself, this 'it won't stop' person was ranting, not Alf. Maybe Alf keeps posting in an effort to have peace because the winners won't "Leave it alone", betcha didn't think of that. I saw it, can you?

Alf is with Alf wrote on Mar 13, 2007 12:12 PM:So good to hear someone is with Alf. As far as his shotgun posting goes, I have yet to read a funny one so I must disagree with you on that.

Not Sore wrote on Mar 13, 2007 12:22 PM:Sore winners? I haven't seen a single post that I would characterize that way. No, the opposition to Prop A used dirty tactics and lies, but I voted no anyway. All I see here are people calling it the way it is: Big special interests trying to railroad a small town. Stop twisting and distorting and just accept it for what it is. They have.

Joan in SB wrote on Mar 13, 2007 12:23 PM:I applaud Alf's calls for an end to the discussion. Wait. Is this the same Alf that still complains about a FORMER mayor in Encinitas that he didn't like? So much for moving on.

Reasonable Suggestions wrote on Mar 13, 2007 12:26 PM:The person posting at 12:08 talks about Alf's "reasonable suggestions" but they, too, apparently don't know anything about the North Cedros project. Alf's so-called suggestions are so far out in left field that they're like suggesting to feed hay to your car to combat high gas prices. That just makes no sense at all. Prop A has nothing at all to do with commercially zoned (or multi-unit) areas. This just exposes Alf's ignorance on the matter all along. And yours. (Of course, you're probably Alf just tired of using his normal handle.)

yeah solana! wrote on Mar 13, 2007 1:19 PM:i am thrilled that prop A passed! big gargantuan homes are so unesessary in solana beach... we have a great community~if you want a ginat home go tot he ranch or fairbancks~ its close enough. :) thanks to the voters who voted to pass it!! down with the big money bullies..not in my back yard...no way buster. i am thrilled my vote FINALLY meant something !! what a joy! VIVA SOLANA BEACH! WOOHOOO! HAVE A GREAT DAY PEOPLE.

Alf wrote on Mar 13, 2007 1:59 PM:The obstructionist tactics of the former mayor cost us over $260,000. Over a quarter million dollar loss sort of sticks and stings for a while, so "Joan in SB", when property values are the subject on the table, I speak, you would too, even if you and I live in different cities.

Not Alf wrote on Mar 13, 2007 6:54 PM:I think Alf is going for the all time trolling record. I didn't think it was possible for someone to post so much about something they are obviously so clueless about. Prop A increases property values, Alf. You're on the wrong side. It would help if you knew what you were talking about.

Alf wrote on Mar 13, 2007 8:04 PM:Well, "Not Alf", what part of the several gracious Prop A has won's, the people of Solana Beach have decided for themselves do you not understand? You can have your beliefs, I have mine. They are not the same. There is an old saying that a property is worth what you think it is, while the value is what someone is willing to pay for it, nothing more. How a person writes here, under anonymity, gives a true measure of the person's character. An impartial observer might wonder why insults are being thrown at someone who, after the election, seeks peace.

Sympathetic wrote on Mar 13, 2007 8:04 PM:Sorry about your problems with some politician in Encinitas. Encinitas Solana Beach. Also, you seem to be on the wrong side of Prop A if property values are a concern.

You go Solana wrote on Mar 13, 2007 8:06 PM:I think the rest of San Diego must be WAY out of touch. First they get conned into voting for Prop 90 - yikes! - and now they are coming down on Solana Beach for protecting our homes.

Alf wrote on Mar 13, 2007 9:42 PM:Someone is so hacked off at me that no matter what I say they gotta insult and be hurtful. I backed off and you still insult. I ask for post election hissy-fits to stop and you still insult. You egg me on and then insult some more if I respond. With the exception of blowing my top after multiple insults, I have been seeking peace since the election and you still insult and belittle me. When does it stop? I'll give you the only answer, when you stop insulting me.

All about Alf wrote on Mar 14, 2007 10:52 AM:I guess it really is all about you, Alf. Isn't this article supposed to be about an election in Solana Beach? Instead, you've made it about you and your problems. Let's see... 1. You don't live in Solana Beach. 2. You therefore didn't vote in the election. 3. You still don't seem to understand the topic. 4. You post WAY TOO MUCH! Please move on and give it a rest. Not a single post on this or any other article about Prop A has appreciated your posts. Doesn't that send a message to you?

Peace? wrote on Mar 14, 2007 10:58 AM:Alf wrote: "...why insults are being thrown at someone who, after the election, seeks peace..." But you haven't done anything of the sort. Instead, you took it as an opportunity to castigate voters for their error. You posted 16 times. How is that seeking peace? How about just moving on after your side lost - in an election you didn't even vote in. The FIRST sentence in your VERY FIRST post stated that you were against Prop A - and this is after the voters already decided. Why would you want to start up that way if you were actually seeking peace? Peace would be letting it go after the result, not digging in by voicing your opposition after the fact.

Kevin B wrote on Mar 15, 2007 1:10 PM:I voted no and in a democracy, in certain cases, a simple majority rules. Barely half of the registered voters turned out (50.2%) and made a decision that affects 20 per cent of the homes - for now. Though some view this as a "win" Solana Beach lost an average of 24.3 per cent potential tax revenue - per lot. That's a lot of money. Could have fixed a lot of streets, funded the Rail Trail, etc. Not only the potential tax revenue but once again government attempting to limit my rights sits badly with me. It's a perception that was sold and won in the passing of Prop A because in reality the footprint structures have on the varying lots changed minimially. Essentially we added a 7.5 foot setback on either side of a large lot owner (16K)who might desire a max size single level home.

Totally unsubstantiated wrote on Mar 15, 2007 4:46 PM:Kevin B's comment "Solana Beach lost an average of 24.3 per cent potential tax revenue - per lot" is totally unsubstantiated and based in no fact whatsoever. You're trying to justify your sour grapes with ridiculous fabrications that stand in the face of the actual results borne by every other example of similar measures passed throughout the entire United States. Your baloney didn't work before the election. Now it's just stale.

Boo Hoo wrote on Mar 15, 2007 4:50 PM:Kevin says that 'in a democracy, in certain cases, a simple majority rules.' Boo hoo, Kevin. Somebody sounds upset that they didn't get their way. No, Kevin, your side had unmatched advantages in every way. If you didn't get enough people to vote your way then it's your own fault. Don't blame democracy. After all, it's the No-No's that wanted the vote in the first place (and then sued to stop it, but that's another issue).

SevenFiveFive wrote on Apr 24, 2008 11:42 PM:I had never read these vitriolic and nasty posts until today (4/24/08) - a day late and a dollar short, as they say. I can only say that the "winners" were exactly as they have always been, the most bitter, vicious and mean people of Solana Beach. I have lived here most of my life, I am a Realtor and proud of it. Solana Beach is lost to wealthy liberals, they have ruined my town.

We The People wrote on Apr 29, 2008 11:24 PM:Prop A passed because the proponents were all about inclusiveness and giving; using concepts such as "our city" and "community benefits". The opponents all