Things. wrote on May 8, 2007 2:36 PM:Happen in an occupation. Those civilians should leave the country. Let them live somewhere else.

Jaycee wrote on May 8, 2007 5:05 PM:Loved Mr Fred Losch's letter to the editor, published today. It's a war! You cannot be politically correct and win! Support the troops!

ahhh I see how it works wrote on May 8, 2007 5:37 PM:Brilliant!!! Give a guy immunity, then have him take complete responsibility for the whole thing. Dang, them boys are smarrrrrrrt!

Jaycee wrote on May 8, 2007 5:41 PM:Lets support our troops. They have a tough job, going against people who have no scruples. Former USMC Fred Losch wrote an excellent letter; published today. What is up with prosecuting our troops?? It's a war, with very unbalanced rules of engagement. Get some common sense.

Raul wrote on May 9, 2007 6:42 AM:Ever wonder why a great american hero said "War is Hell". Let the Marines go.

USMCDad wrote on May 9, 2007 7:19 AM:Yeah, Hitler had the best tacticts - kill 'em all - that's what the bad guys do, so why shouldn't we? Who cares about morality???!!!

Troubled wrote on May 9, 2007 8:51 AM:We have been told that the majority of our troops would not report it if they saw innocent civilians being shot; and we repeatedly read justification and support for the wanton and indiscriminate killing of Iraqis. We also read that recruitment standards particularly in the area of ethics (read convicted felons) have been lowered. Why can we believe anything he says.

JackieD wrote on May 9, 2007 9:14 AM:I agree, it's war. Things happen. I support the Troops no matter what and will always stand behind them. They are doing their job and they are the best in the business, if it wasn't for them we wouldn't be the country we are today!! Semper Fi!

wyobo wrote on May 9, 2007 9:21 AM:Just like viet nam again. let the enemy destroy our men who were sent there by the gov. and then don't let the troops do anything about it. why sent the men there with their hands tied and blindfolded to engage the bad guys? that is what we have done. Mistakes can be made, why punish our men for mistakes make in the heat of battle?

Pinky wrote on May 9, 2007 9:54 AM:I am troubled as well. Somehow John Wayne has taken over our country and he is taking no prisoners.

Guisseppe wrote on May 9, 2007 9:56 AM:To Things - why should the civilians leave their own homes and live somewhere else? Why are we occupying their country? What are you people thinking, have you gone mad???

Make Iraq. wrote on May 9, 2007 10:32 AM:The 51st state. Send more troops. We need the oil.

Stand by your Sons wrote on May 9, 2007 12:17 PM:War is not a clean environment where we can play "instant replay" and see what happened. It is not anyones place to judge these Marines unless you have been there. I would bet the vast majority of the "arm chair quarterbacks" have never gone on little sleep for days, eaten cold food and been called into battle to see your friends killed. These young men are serving our country and we sent them there. I will always support our men in battle! If there is a problem, I will also trust the Marines to do the right thing.

Terrific news? wrote on May 9, 2007 12:58 PM:Give these soldiers and their court a long enough time and our countrymen will forget what happened. What happens when they lay their heads down at night to sleep is another matter. Frankly they should all be receving intense medical/psychological therapy. While I"m at it, what about the high lack of ethics among the services? There is a problem for you to address...at the source!!

to things wrote on May 9, 2007 1:16 PM:Why don't YOU go live somewhere else?

To TN: wrote on May 9, 2007 1:48 PM:The reports about ethics in the military that the media is publishing their chosen snippets of are based on hypothetical situations - not instances that actually happened! The anti-military mainstream media is hoping for readers like you not to realize that. These studies are pro-active - some of the questions also were asked a couple years ago and have been being addressed - and our military is filled with brave, ethical men and women, which you do not hope to understand and are possibly incapable of it.

Set them free wrote on May 9, 2007 2:01 PM:When children and women are shooting and bombing our military people in Iraq, that leaves NO civilians. Americans can't fathom the thought that women and children are killing, and the media jumps all over that mentality. Then, the media says our marines killed civilians just because of the age and sex of the dead. Their are no civilians in Iraq - our men are innocent.

Sand and oil. wrote on May 9, 2007 2:02 PM:That's all there is. Let them solve it by themselves.

Ex-CWO wrote on May 9, 2007 2:28 PM:I hope that some of these people above don't ever have their nation invaded and occupied by a strange foreign army (and Marines). I doubt they would think it is okay to kill innocents because some troops were angry, if THEY were the targets. As for the troops and those who have covered it up, they are in the wrong business. I'm further disturbed that most of the atrocities that we are hearing about are being committed by Marines rather than the Army. Something is clearly wrong with discipline in this branch of service. For THAT we need to blame the officer corps. The Army has so far dealt SEVERELY with their cases while the USMC covers up and when forced, gives light sentences. This is a big shame on our nation and the Marine Corp.

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on May 9, 2007 2:29 PM:Since we all know how the enemy uses civilians and has no qualm about sacrificing even babies for their cause, WHY is it so difficult for anyone to believe that many of those civilian casualties weren't a result of the insurgents? The Corps' has reported how the enemy takes, or rearranges, what we would consider "evidence". So, how in the heck can anyone accuse Marines who are in a firefight of anything criminal? WAR, FIREFIGHT, SURVIVAL of the FITTEST, KILL or BE KILLED...FACT of LIFE!!!

Nozzle wrote on May 9, 2007 3:34 PM:The United States Marines are the most deadly and ethical fighting force in the world. Some of you youngsters might think about pulling up your pants, pulling out your nose-rings and joining up. It's a hell of a ride. semper fi, Scott ... USMC retired

2NDLTUSMC wrote on May 9, 2007 3:59 PM:As a former Marine, I can tell this, these men will start fighting back. And they will not stand by and have our government make accusations when they are in a WAR. Since when do you have to ask " Can I shoot back?" and when will they tell their officers that if they are expected to fight and die, then we will fight the pentigon and their arm chair warriors. It's KILL OR BE KILLED. There isn't any gray area only black and white, so if they want to convict, then I would tell my men do what you have to do and make damn sure that you come back safe. This is Bush's war and he doesn't have the ball's himself. He's nothing but a coward and a liar.

rick wrote on May 9, 2007 4:23 PM:A USMC Dad, for real. Don,t convict without proof. If they really did something technically wrong, it should be reviewed in the proper context of their environment and mental state at the time. You could not drag 98% of the weasels that that sent them there to go also, I refer to government officials.

Rob wrote on May 9, 2007 4:58 PM:If you ask me this is sad. This is part of whats wrong with this country. we send them over to fight a war but when they do there job we try to court marshal em.

Mike wrote on May 9, 2007 5:19 PM:" We have been told that the majority of our troops would not report it if they saw innocent civilians being shot; and we repeatedly read justification and support for the wanton and indiscriminate killing of Iraqis. We also read that recruitment standards particularly in the area of ethics (read convicted felons) have been lowered. Why can we believe anything he says. " Yet the same people who wont believe US Marines believe terrorists when the claim our people are killers and that they have been tortured? After all men who cut off the heads off of helpless prisoners while they scream GOD IS GREAT! Are perfectly trustworthy...where is your drivel on 'ethics' now?

Rob.B wrote on May 9, 2007 6:14 PM:I thank god that i am not in the corps anymore. I would probably end up in prison too . I could not see having to act like a campus cop in a combat zone. One thing i am sure of is that if i was there i would shoot at anything i had the slightest doubt about.

Here is the moral. wrote on May 9, 2007 6:18 PM:Don't send your Army/Marines anywhere unless you want them to kill. That is what they do. They do NOT nation build. They do NOT try to stop a Civil War. This whole business was a huge mistake. People (suits) need to go to jail. Wake up America!

zach wrote on May 9, 2007 7:17 PM:i wish some of you could know what some of us know. the weight of a flack half way through a patrol in 110 deg. heat. going around a blind corner. watching a door expolode after your friend kicks it in. tapping a video camera to your helmet so you have proof you're being shot at. none of you were there. i'll trust the grunts because grunts trsted in me and i trusted in them.

Samuel wrote on May 9, 2007 7:39 PM:As far as I think, from the information provided to us, these men did their duty and their jobs right. There is a big difference between "After-action" reports and a "Probe" investigation. No wrong doing was committed. Nozzle said it right! Uh-Rah!

Raymond wrote on May 9, 2007 7:40 PM:What is going on here? Our political leaders need to decide whose side they are on. Allow our troops to fight a war and support them. This trial is a joke and shameful. We have stabbed these men in the back.

MB wrote on May 9, 2007 8:07 PM:WWII would have been lost if our Marines were second guessed in this ridiculous manner. Some people need to be reminded that this is a WAR. People die. The prosecution of these brave Marines must be devestating to morale.

docjay wrote on May 9, 2007 9:48 PM:This situation eerily reminds me of Breaker Morant, a movie about innocent troops from Australia that were executed during the Boer war by the British for political correctness. The fact that our president or the pentagon hasn't spoken up against this sham of a trial really scares me. I wouldn't be surprised if the outcome is based on political expediency rather than truth.....shame on all those letting our boys suffer for someone elses agenda.

Walter wrote on May 9, 2007 9:52 PM:Prior to WWII, the mission of the USMC was to defend USN ships and installations and obscure overseas territories. They gained their current power and status as a result of the Pacific War which the U.S Army did not consider a priority. This force has clearly gone way beyond its intended purpose and most importantly, tactical and martial abilities. The remarks above, many supposedly espoused by current or former memebers, indicates clearly that this branch of service considers itself something of a special, elite storm-trooper force. This mistaken mind set has led to these well publicized atrocities.Many of the remarks are frightening and sound little different than the rhetoric espoused by street gangs. Young men who sport shirts and tatoos with such slogans as "Death Before Dishonor or Swift, Silent, Deadly" are to be feared as much by us as any misperceived enemy. These acts, these slogans and the many supportive remarks above are NOT compatible with a free and democratic nation that has, until recent decades, prided itself on its fairness and compassion. On the contrary, I have read these same remarks in the journals of the Nazi SS. Those who continue to claim that our nation is at war are only using that word as a battle cry and excuse for their hideously aberant behavior. Our nation is an occupying power in a nation engaged in civil war, naturally they are going to be targeted. To kill every civilian in sight because you are frustrated is not what a United States Soldier does (or should do). Those that support them are little better than cheerleaders at a Roman Colliseum. No, this military unit should be returned to their former status, as a security gaurd to the USN and its budget, weapons and salvageable officer and NCO corps transferred (after a period of retraining) the the US Army.

Support Our Troops wrote on May 9, 2007 10:25 PM:Let's see: we go to war, we fight the terrorists, and we treat our soldiers with honor. Whoops, take out the treating our troops with honor part. In this PC-dominated administration, prosecution of troops for doing their duties is the norm. It's shameful and must stop.

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on May 10, 2007 12:17 AM:To Walter: I read your comments and am trying to decipher why you think a mindset of confidence in the "special" training one has endured to earn the right to wear the Eagle, Globe and Anchor, and of pride in that, is considered by you to have led to atrocities. First of all; Please explain when any of the charges were "proven". I seem to have missed the trials. The comments you describe as being the same rhetoric of street gangs, is most certainly NOT. It is the rhetoric of Americans who are pissed off at the INjustice of the military system of justice, at politicians who dishonor these Marines by either making inflammatory statements or don't have the spine to stand up for them and against this persecution, and at any American who has decided guilt without knowing ALL of the facts or even one trial. You say the remarks are frightening. Geeze! Survival of the Fittest, Kill or Be Killed, and Death before Dishonor, have been around at least since WWII, if not before. What is so frightening about them? I'm a female. They don't frighten me. "MISperceived Enemy"??? Tell me you're kidding. There's NO misconception about this enemy. The remarks by bloggers that you spoke of above "ARE" most definitely compatible with a free and democratic nation that has prided itself on its fairness and compassion. Please share with all of us the name of the Nazi SS publication and page numbers that have the same remarks, according to you, that have the same phrases Americans use. While you're at it; How did you come by these journals? In this DEMOCRACY in AMERICA, do you know that the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff has said, "Certainly the soldiers on the ground will be very keenly aware of the people coming toward them. If they're wearing civilian clothes, they will NOT ASSUME that those are really civilians." He also said the soldiers on the ground "have an absolute right to defend themselves." Perhaps those in power over our troops are the ones who should be on trial. They made a contract with our troops when they mentored them and trained them. I call that Breach of Contract. So, let's sue the Military Brass. Congressman Murtha is being sued. Why stop there? What the heck; how about a "class-action suit" by every American who believes that our Marines are being persecuted and railroaded. They fight for us. The least we could do is fight for them. They don't deserve to have their careers and lives ripped apart by a bunch of pantywaste leaders who have screwed up so badly that they would sacrifice those under them to cover their own sorry rears.

Joe wrote on May 10, 2007 6:18 AM:You call it a war. You put a young man trained to kill in a foreign country wondering if a bullet or bomb will kill him that day. Add in the heat of an armed engagement and an undefined enemy. What do you expect to happen? These men, for right or wrong, did their duty to the best of their ability and training given all the circumstances. They should not be on trial. Whether and how we should use the Marines in the interest of our country and ideals is the question.

Steve wrote on May 10, 2007 6:50 AM:What in hell! is wrong with you people! Don't you know, this is war! You must understand if you have any brains. These USMC,Army, men were trained and sent to war for a reason. Hell! mistakes are made in war. Thats why they war is HELL!! These Marines only did there job. I do not beleive these soldiers would kill for no reason. If you punish these soldiers, then you better come and find every other soldier that fought for this country. I'm one of them. If your going to punish us for war mistakes such as this, maybe you better just let the terrorists take us over, even if it means US no more.

Hank wrote on May 10, 2007 7:23 AM:To folks like 'Walter', all I can say is wake up and smell the coffee. Realization can and will eventually sink in.

To Walter wrote on May 10, 2007 7:56 AM:Maybe you should study a little more of your history. The Marine Corps has been involved in much more than just the Pacific Theater during WWII. They were also involved in ground operations during WWI. You might have heard the name given to them "Devil Dogs" (Translated). I don't think you understand the warrior mindset. We have to tell ourselves that we are special. If we didn't think we were special, then there's no reason to have us. You have to have the will and the mindset in order to survive. Let's not forget about My Lai's tragedy during Vietnam. That was committed by an Army unit. You can read all the journals about warriors from the past and they all read the same. Why do you think our Service Academies study past battles? The Marine Corps has been known for its aggressivness and committment. It's those qualities that allowed them to save countless of lives during throughtout their history. Take a look at their success during the Chosin Reservoir. They were able to bring almost all of their wounded and equipment out. Can the Army say the same? This is not a dig at the Army. They are an outstanding fighting force. The invasion of Normandy and the breakout during the Battle of Bulge gives testimony to the fighting sprit of them. Before you spout off your nonsense, read your complete history and not just selected parts that semi-support your claims.

Ted wrote on May 10, 2007 10:29 AM:This is war not sand box play. The government is tying the hands of our service men, like they tie the hands of our police and immigration agents. Pretty soon no one will even think about holding positions like these. The media needs to back off the shoulders of our service men and police.

Nancye wrote on May 10, 2007 1:03 PM:What are our troops supposed to do - knock on the door and ask, "Are there any terrorists in there"? Duh!!! This IS war, isn't it?

Jacob wrote on May 13, 2007 11:43 AM:If this happened in Vista or Oceanside or San Marcos, would you be so blase about civilian deaths? It is war but it isnt an excuse for renogade soldiers abusing women and children. War doesnt make it right!