AW4cryinoutloud wrote on May 17, 2007 2:29 PM:What happened to the first prosecution version that ALL of the squad allegedly met and agreed to a plan? NOW only four allegedly met and plotted a plan. Since four are supposed to have plotted, I guess that means that the Sergeant was not a ringleader or mastermind. So we are to now believe there are four masterminds? It's all in the wording isn't it? The prosecution can't seem to get its ducks in a row so those making the plea DEALS know what the hell to say. What a crock!!!

AEQUITAS ET VERITAS wrote on May 17, 2007 2:54 PM: I really have come to believe that in many cases some of these preliminary hearings and courts-martial are cases of scapegoating. It is painful to note that no general officers or indeed, civilian authorities in the DOD, are being held accountable for their conduct in this war. Signals were given from Bush, Rumsfeld and others on down the line that anything goes, that whatever it takes to win is hunky dory. But just as soon as some poor grunt goes nuts from the heat of battle, the horrors of combat and drills a few insurgents, then HORRORS, HORRORS, and GOODNESS GRACIOUS, WHY WE CERTAINLY DON'T CONDONE SUCH BARBARIC BEHAVIOR. (OH AND BY THE WAY, NOW THAT WE'VE SAID THAT ~ DON'T FORGET TO VOTE FOR US NEXT ELECTION.) I'm thinking, who are these bozos that got us into this friggin mess in the first place? 5 of the Pendleton 8 have pled guilt and have been sentenced. The others await completion of the legal process. What they admit to is horrific and ghastly on the face of it. What's bugging me though is that these are young guys with a clean record who witnessed some of their squad buddies blown apart by IED's, courtesy of Iran, planted by an enemy who is faceless and indistinguishable. I have come to suspect that these young Marines went off like they did in the midst of bloody, gory combat we cannot understand unless we were there. They snapped, I suspect. Since we are granting amnesty (legalizing or whatever you want to call it) to undocumented migrants, then why isn't an unequivocal pardon in order for these young Marines? I think it is. If some general officers are allowed to fumble and tolerate almost anything and when caught allowed to quietly retire or are merely reassigned, then Themis, the Goddess of Justice must balance her scales of justice in favor of the young Marines.

John1 to AW4 wrote on May 17, 2007 4:20 PM:The 4 alleged to have met to design the plan were Hutchins, Thomas, Magincalda and Pennington. They are the 4 highest ranking in the squad. Then all 8 are alleged to have met to discuss the plan so created. Trust me on this, I've been in the courtroom a few times to hear this story! ;)

Brother Of Pennington wrote on May 17, 2007 4:45 PM:Aequitas, you speak the truth. Many sit from their peanut gallery seats, having never served in the military, much less in hot war zone, and proclaim every one of these men to be monsters who deserve to be thrown in a dark place with the key conveniently lost. No wants to pay attention to the fact that these men had been strained to their limits (my brother was on his 3rd tour in Iraq, all in hot combat zones), weren't given permission to protect themselves, and sent out on patrols which seemed to have the purpose of sending our guys out like target signs for snipers, and with no real clear mission other than the laughable hope that they could catch an insurgent in the act of terrorism. My brother has told me, that during his first two tours this was not the case. By this third tour, The American military stopped letting the Marines protect themselves, released known insurgents, and held the Marines in Hamadania to a peace time police officer’s standards. A Marine is not a police officer, and hasn’t been trained as one. Hamadania is and was not a peaceful town and shouldn’t be considered as such by any. My brother had no, zero, zilch criminal record before this incident. Up until this incident he had been seen as an exemplary Marine, so what, did he just go bad overnight? I can't understand how the naysayer’s of these men put not accountability on the Marine brass. The grunts take all the heat, while Mattis gets another star.

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on May 17, 2007 5:14 PM:To John1: I trust you on it. I have trouble with those who so viciously slam these guys without knowing all of the facts. They don't know whether the squad leader was following orders. That trial still has to take place. They are so eager to jump all over the negative and ignore any other possibility. As far as devising a plan; If one had orders to do so, then that person can not be referred to as a ringleader or a mastermind, yet the press has used those terms from the beginning. It's all in the wording!

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on May 17, 2007 6:01 PM:To Brother of Pennington: One thing I've seen happening, aside from all that you just said in your comments, sadly, is that for the past several months the military knows they screwed up royally and they've been playing "catch up" at the expense of your brother, John1's son, all of the rest who were accused; which also includes the Haditha Marines and the Marines in Afghanistan. The Core Values crap, the changing of ROE's for this type of war; Roe's that this military knew years ago should have been changed but never did, the new counterinsurgency rules to cover their butts...All too late for Marines who, like you said, had exemplary records. Marines who were proud to serve. Marines who went to a barbaric, mostly uncivilized country willing to risk their lives for the people of that country. Old warriors like Natonski, Sattler, Hagee, Pace (not as old), and Mattis have spent years teaching and "ordering" young Marines to fight, to kill, and, lest they forget...To Survive! THEY are at fault for the end result. THEIR planning, THEIR decisions, THEIR lack of concern for the possible outcome and the effect on those who take their orders. THEY are the ones who should be investigated. Where is Congress on this one? They went after the President and the Secretary of Defense. If they really gave a damn about the troops they'd be standing up for your brother, for JJ, for Sgt. Hutchins, and for all of them; Hamdania, Haditha and Afhganistan. It's a little disgusting to see the members of Congress cow to John Murtha. You'd think there'd be at least one with the guts to demand an end to persecuting our Marines. All the afore-mentioned Generals have been praised as great leaders and most of them promoted. Now, the Convening Authority over the future of these Marines; will be portayed as a great war hero in a movie starring Harrrison Ford. Mattis said it himself: "No truer friend, No Worse Enemy". Somehow it seems to take on a whole new meaning.

Father of Pennington wrote on May 17, 2007 6:05 PM:What the "8" did was heroic. They killed a known bad guy before he could kill any more Marines. Period. End of story. They did EXACTLY as they were trained to do. They should be given a medal and set free. Their families should be paid back the hundreds of thousands of dollars they've spent so far trying to defend their Marines. Yeah, then I woke up.

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on May 17, 2007 7:13 PM:Brother of Pennington is ignoring the fact that these men are well paid professionals who are supposed to know how to behave. Something went wrong and someone has to pay..

Proud Sister Of Cpl. Thomas wrote on May 17, 2007 7:29 PM:I fully stand behind these Marines, people don't know what they go through, or the things that they see in Iraq... No matter what people say, my brother is a HERO!

The problem is... wrote on May 17, 2007 7:42 PM:If they believed that what they were doing was following orders, and therefore legal, they would not have come up with the story about finding him planting a road-side bomb. They apparently believed that they had to hide what they were doing. As far as who is the ringleader, rank has both its privileges and it's responsibilities. Hutchins was highest ranking. Again from the lawyers' statements as reported in NCtimes and elsewhere the issue is apparently not did the incident happen but rather was it due to PTSD and/or did they believe they were following Hutchins' orders. From other testimony, however, Phan was fully aware of the incident, at least after the fact, and joined in swearing an oath to conspire to say that the incriminating statements were coerced. I wonder if he will end up testifying against his men in order to keep from being charged for conspiracy.

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on May 17, 2007 7:45 PM:To Father of Pennington: God Bless you Terry. Most of us know they're getting a raw deal. Congressman Delahunt believes Rob was screwed on the sentencing. His site ahs an area to comment and support Rob. Just wish Delahunt would go before Congress with a resolution the way Congressman Jones did for Ilario Pantano. Stay strong for your son and family. Easy for another to say but, You are not alone. AW4.

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on May 17, 2007 8:38 PM:The post at 7:13Pm was not made by me. Apparently someone who has no life of their own is at it again. PATHETIC is the only printable word I can think of. Sorry Brother of Pennington. You know my feelings concerning all of you. Enough to know I'd not make such a stupid comment like the jerk at 7:13PM. AW4.

Father of Pennington wrote on May 17, 2007 8:39 PM:If congressman Delahunt really cared he'd be calling for a criminal investigation of the NCIS - the agency who violated our Marine's constitutional rights by denying them counsel during their interrogations. There's so many stories like this involving NCIS, the agency who doesn't investigate, rather sets out to prove a preconceived idea, and no one is willing to step up to the plate and take a swing at them.

John1 to AW4, Father, Brother and Sister of ... wrote on May 17, 2007 9:18 PM:Semper Fi. LOL, JJ and Rob speak Arabic in the Brig to show they're still fighting. The "Dirty Firsts" are the real deal. They are true combat infantrymen and the Marines of Guadalcanal, Chosin and Hue have their brothers in our boys.

John1 to "Fake AW4" wrote on May 17, 2007 9:19 PM:JJ's rate of pay equated to 34 cents/hour.

John1 to "The Problem Is" wrote on May 17, 2007 9:20 PM:Phan has been granted immunity in return for the Non Judicial Punishment he will receive.

NorallyRight1 wrote on May 18, 2007 1:44 AM:To John1 @ 4:20: There you go again trying to play someone who was there on-sight when this incident alleged to have happened and you weren't. And, depending on what day of the week it is, is the determining factor on what your son (and yourself, I might add) thought happened that fateful day. And just because you were sitting in the audience does not give credence as fact to what you say. Period. And Delahunt is just another politician flapping his jaw about something of interest. Does he do anything about it? Oh, hell no. And, he sure does have in his power the tools to really make a difference, yet he doesn't. And I'll just bet the entire Haditha incident will just poof-be gone as 'collateral damage', even though apparently truly innocent women and children were killed. And, yes these men too had alleged conversations following the incident as to what they would say if ever questioned. Sound familiar? Yet, Poof-be gone.....yep that sure sounds like fair and equal justice. Just like 12 months sentence or 18 months sentence versus 25 years to life for same charges.

John1 to NorallyRight wrote on May 18, 2007 9:52 PM:Uh, you do realize that my son is one of the CP8 defendants, right? My son was feet on the ground in Hamdania and walked up to Awad's dead body- I've also seen the pictures of Awad's dead body . The allegations against Thomas, Magincalda, Hutchins and Pennington state the same thing for all their cases, which indeed was the same for my son. I was more than just "sitting in the audience", as well. I testified at my son's trial, under oath. I am certain, as are all the others involved in these trials (including in my opinion, the prosecutors) that Awad was a Mujahadeen insurgent.

JIm wrote on Feb 13, 2008 9:57 PM:I have been involved in the fund raising for one of the Pendleton 8 Marines and in diseminating information through the media. I have had personal conversations with several family members and their legal counsel. These Marines got screwed, they were not allowed to defend themselves to the fullest, the NCIS has shown a pattern of corruption and deceit that is criminal, and Congressman Delahunt is a liar that he tried to help; his associate Kivlin sat in the trial and never reported back the important evidence for his leader, Delahunt to hold up in Congress to stop this sham trial.