Lisa wrote on May 19, 2007 10:56 PM:It's irritating to me that my son/"student" seems to be little more than a dollar sign for the school districts & for the City (for that matter). How can I believe otherwise...when every year, the districts have their hands out for a raise...and every year there is some kind of budget shortfall and the student's programs take the hit - not the district employees. Before anyone wants to start whining about how little the teachers make, let me tell you I know a teacher that makes $50,000/yr - now that's a very nice salary. And before anyone wants to whine about the cost of living, let me ask you why "your" livelihood is anymore important than mine (I am a business owner)? I know that the majority of our students are not getting the education they deserve from public schools (the scores prove that). I will not vote for a bond for a new school. I hold the school districts and the City responsible for the poor education our students are getting, while the districts and the schools line their pockets with money, benefits and retirement. They still haven't a clue that a school district with good scores equates to a better quality of life for all - and most importantly for our students!

San Marcos Taxpayer wrote on May 19, 2007 11:38 PM:You tell them Lisa!! I seriously do not believe that the majority of teachers really care about the students and the learning process anymore. Teaching is a well paid, great benefits, gravy train career that rewards mediocrity without the risk of being truly held accountable for results.

Parent wrote on May 20, 2007 2:27 AM:According to this article, "The state gives school districts money based on the number of students who show up to school on a day-to-day basis." Shouldn't the state give money based upon the needs of the schools, not solely upon number of students? I mean, the students that are still attending will continue to need the materials, programs, etc. Seems like the other children will be short changed. Lisa, I have a question for you... the teacher that you know, does she/he work only one teaching job of the 50k? I'm not a teacher, but I'm going to answer your question with what I think... I believe that a teachers livelihood is more important than yours and mine because she/he is teaching the future. Teaching is a thankless career, (example your post and San Marcos taxpayer's as well). It's a job I could never do. I think they do as good of a job as they can, but you also have to take into consideration that 1. scores aren't everything, 2. students have to play a part in learning and 3. so do parents. Everyone blames teachers for their kids not succeeding. It's not always the teachers fault. That being said, there are teachers out there who don't care. I'll cite as an example, my math teacher in Catholic school that my parents paid good money for me to attend as an example of a bad teacher. She could careless if I understood. I didn't, she didn't help me and I still struggle in college trying to get through remedial math. So, it's not only public schools, private schools can be lacking as well. As a parent student, of both and adult child and a pre-schooler, I know many teachers.. elementary, all the way up to college. The ones I know work hard, struggle, care and are dedicated to teaching. And, they don't make that much money. Many work more than one job. I give them lots of credit for doing what they do. Parents also need to be active in the education of their kids and work with teachers, not attack them. Without them, who would teach our children?

District Math is Wrong wrote on May 20, 2007 2:31 AM:"At Central Elementary School, for instance, Principal Marta Baker said that their loss of about 40 students this coming year is going to cost the campus around $80,000 -- a significant dip in funding for the second year in a row." and "Baker also said that she will not fill two teaching positions that will be vacant, after veteran third- and second-grade teachers retire at the end of this year." don't make sense. 2 veteran teachers must cost the district at least $175,000 a year in overall benefits, salary, and retirement. As usual, job performance is not the #1 priority with teachers, the school administration, and the teacher's union, it's keeping the staffing at high levels and at high salaries. California teachers make one of the highest salaries in the nation and ostensibly the best retirement benefits, yet our per capita spending is average. Either we trim our teacher costs or we should bite the bullet and hire MORE outrageously expensive California teachers. Certainly our student/teacher ratios are horrible and our "inclusive" policy of teaching illegal immigrants aren't working. How can we keep hearing the same old media BS and NOT get angry?

Lisa is correct wrote on May 20, 2007 6:44 AM:Also if enrollment is down, then the rate the taxpayer is paying for the bonds should go down. I want a refund from the school district. Good idea. Lets get a refund. Someone out there got any ideas on how to go about it. How about a bond measure to refund out money?

Christine wrote on May 20, 2007 7:36 AM:While the elementary schools are experiencing a drop in enrollment, the charter schools (also public, but non-union) are experiencing the largest waiting lists ever. Parents aren't happy with the education provided by the administration-heavy, union-run traditional schools. If you want to find teachers that care, try charter schools or private, where they are not paid nearly $50K.

Carter: wrote on May 20, 2007 8:01 AM: So, less students per class - less money for the school. the other side of that coin is, more students more money. Usually, if you look at the outside of the school you will not be able to tell the difference. I use to, as a part of my job, evaluate our suppliers periodically to determine if they were living up to there contracts. (The evaluation was a line item in the contract.) A part of my evaluation was to be on the lookout for suppliers that were having financial difficulty. A hypothetical example of one sure sign was when the president of the company was out mowing the lawn. Now I propose that we continue to reduce their budget until the Principals are out mowing the lawns at the schools. Then we could throw them a few bucks for appearance sake, even though we would have at that time found something useful the principals could do. The article above is nothing but propaganda put out by the county civil servants in the form of press releases, etc.

Sam , parent,taxpayer,sucker. wrote on May 20, 2007 8:35 AM:These schools, teachers,supervisors, school districts, etc. take advantage of our children toget monies from anywhere thet can. Where does the monies go? It doesn't go for education! Check their pockets fast before they run to another district. People think the Mofia is bad; it does not compare to them. Suckers'

JSten wrote on May 20, 2007 8:39 AM:Suggestion: Keep your kids at home, move to the desert or the mountains, where there are no schools and teach them yourself. Problem solved. Think of how much money you will save. Or, OR, here's another good suggestion: try getting a job as a teacher yourself and get one of those high paying jobs in a palatial school, with those eager little beavers. You will change the world. Or, OR, go to the school board meetings or the PTA and become better informed on the state of the schools. Naaah!

Other side wrote on May 20, 2007 10:31 AM:All I can say is that test scores alone do not measure student learning or achievement, especially with second-language learners. Test scores are a bright idea that people like Bush came up to put the final nail in the coffin for public education. They want the middle class to think that public schools are bad, and that the only good education is a private one. Public education used to be the great equalizer in our country, but Bush doesn't want that. He wants a society of haves and have nots. And his plan is working perfectly.

To Other Side wrote on May 20, 2007 12:00 PM:test scores certainly ARE important for English learners for them to be competive in our market. Otherwise they needed to stay in their own enviornment. Gov't. can't enter into private schools or they'd honor tax credits for fees paid for education. That isn't going to happen.

Reardon wrote on May 20, 2007 12:07 PM:We test for the same reason that we keep score in athletic events -- to measure success. While it might be interesting to value effort, in real life -- we keep score. It is always the losers who question the score -- and the scoring. we measure so as to determine how we need improvement -- and the National Assessment of Educational performance tests children in every state on the same test. California finishes at the bottom -- Massachusetts finishes at the top. There are many reasons -- ESL students, experimentation, mainstreaming, teacher competence, parental involvement, but the results speak for themselves. The fact that, after Katrina we could have hired Louisiana teachers and IMPROVED California Reading scores, tells a bitter tale. If the parents in this state do not wake up to the current low rating in education of this state, it will not improve.

Genny wrote on May 20, 2007 2:19 PM:All these comments reflect the level of propaganda out there. High stakes testing does not improve education, it destroys it. You cannot evaluate any higher level thinking with a scantron, so you stop teaching any. Those who insist upon punitive tests are getting the education for their kids they deserve...one without adequate instruction in writing, science, social studies or other content areas. This generation of students will be one of the most ignorant ever produced, not in spite of these tests, but because of them. The thinking seems to be that teachers are the cause of all of education's woes. They are certainly being made the scapegoat by people who want to undermine our educational system. And as far as the money issue is concerned, what other profession asks its members to contribute so much of their own money to others. Do you have any idea how much the average teacher spends so that his or her students will have the best materials? What if you went to the hospital and the nurses had to furnish clean needles out of their own pockets? Start paying teachers like fast food workers and just see what effect on education that has.

To Reardon wrote on May 20, 2007 2:53 PM:The National Assessment is a norm-refernced test. That means that a control group takes the test and their scores set the guidelines for how the test will be scoreed. The students who take the test are in the Mid-West. Those students are absolutely nothing like our own. We need to get out of the cookie-cutter model of education. Not every student is the same and therefore not be taught the same or tested the same. And for anyone who thinks teaching is such a well paid and easy job---then do it. In any five year period between 50-80% of teachers leave the profession because it is so easy and they are so well paid.

Polarized wrote on May 20, 2007 7:08 PM:Yet another pile of polarized posts. I have learned something in my years of work. Nobody thinks they are being paid enough. Managers never think they have enough assets to get the job done. Customers always wonder why the product costs so much. The education industry is no different. We need testing to measure performance. It isn't perfect but it is all we have. They aren't trying to measure creative thinking or other intangibles, just the basics, like reading writing and arithmetic. What good is higher level thinking to an illiterate person?

Please... wrote on May 20, 2007 11:51 PM:don't give me that teachers pay out of their pocket so much...if it were $1000/yr, it would not make a real difference in teacher's salary. Just because the school district spends so much of their money on overpaid teachers that school supplies get shorted and are made up partially by the teachers doesn't justify the situation. Teachers are overpaid. The teacher unions say teachers are the most important resource. Test results are poor. Maybe teacher salaries should reflect the test results. We certainly aren't giving the students themselves incentive to learn -- a high school diploma means you aren't illiterate.

Why don't they get it? wrote on May 22, 2007 10:46 AM:Am I the only one who is wondering why there is such a flap about building new schools and hearing about the overcrowding in schools? I guess the schools want to be overcrowded so they will get more money! My kids schools are bursting at the seams with students...I'd like to see a few less kids there. Maybe the teachers can actually teach instead of babysit.

To: Other side wrote on May 22, 2007 10:49 AM:At the rate our public schools are going...everyone will be "have nots". This isn't about haves and have nots, it's about the terrible eduation ALL our kids are receiving.

To wrote on May 22, 2007 11:34 PM:To Parent: To answer your question (re: teacher I know who makes $50,000/yr)...This teacher I know is a twenty-five year old lady that has worked as a teacher for 3 years and currently makes $50k working one full-time teaching position in Poway. Furthermore, to set the record straight: 1. I teach my child first and foremost before any other 2. My child is a successful student - a GATE student with high GPA 3. My child/student plays the biggest part in his education. Another thing: Teaching IS NOT a "thankless career". How dramatic of you. Teachers are appreciated by many and I'm sure the teachers of today are very thankful for their very nice retirement packages. Give me a break..."thankless" - hah. And finally, I do agree with you on one thing: "I believe that a teachers livelihood is more important than yours" BUT NOT MINE AND NOT MY CHILD'S.

FYI wrote on May 23, 2007 9:02 PM:The reason Poway teachers make more than teachers anywhere else in the county is because their teacher's union is part of the meat packers union.

Skip wrote on May 26, 2007 2:00 PM:The real story here is what percentage of the students still know how to speak English

Skip wrote on May 26, 2007 2:01 PM:Oh by the way I pay a lot of money to enroll my children in Private Schools. Enough said..........