You've got to be kidding me? wrote on May 24, 2007 3:12 AM:Is Diane Wilson Graham an expert on playing an instrument and marching for mile upon mile in a volunteer marching band? That's right! Union folks going after volunteers again!

Clarinet wrote on May 24, 2007 4:38 AM:I was in the band for 4 years in HS. We were marching at 7 am before school and also during our PE time. Once marching season was over, we went to our PE class. What's the matter with these dummies. That marching was a much better exercise than what the regular PE classes were doing.

Murrieta Mom wrote on May 24, 2007 5:16 AM:When I was in high school, band was band and PE was PE. They are not the same. Both are important, but I see this as another way we are catering to high school sports. "If you play on the band and come out and be showy for the games, we'll let you out of PE." If the teachers are so worried their programs will suffer, then they realize that there are those who are in band only to avoid PE. If the kids are truly interested in band, they will do both. What the teachers are really worried about is their job, and that's not a reason to excuse these kids from PE.

R U Kidding? wrote on May 24, 2007 9:14 AM:I was in band for two years, pageantry for two years, both were considered a p.e. class since it took up two periods of our school day. We were at the school at O dark thirty AM and we practiced after school until it was past 9 pm. We marched on the weekends and even went to the Rose Parade. The discipline that is used in this class, plus the comraderie and friendships don't even come close to P.E. they surpass it with gusto! We even started band and pageantry camp two weeks before school started. We would get to campus at 6:30 AM and leave around 5 PM. Go band and pageantry!!!!

Temecula Mom wrote on May 24, 2007 10:03 AM:My daughter was in marching band and as far as taking place of a physical education class, it wasn't happening. Marching Band is great for those that want to play an instrument but to keep our kids fit, marching band is not the answer. Look at our youth these days. What do you see? Unfortunately there are several over weight kids today. Why? Because they sit and don't get any exercise when they leave for home from school. At least when they are in a physical education class they are moving at least 40 to 50 minutes a day. More then what they would get if they were not in a physical education class. Let's follow the state laws and get these kids back in our physical education classes and if they want to join the marching band that is fine but it should not take place of a physical education class.

Gimme a Break! wrote on May 24, 2007 12:04 PM:Just because they are not kicking a ball around doesnt mean they are not getting "physical ed" Marching band members spend countless hours marching in the heat, some are carrying a 40lb instrument.

to temecula mom wrote on May 24, 2007 12:27 PM:if your daughter was in the marching band and was not fit, its your cooking that to be blamed.. maybe you are not feeding her healthy foods...

Tiny Tim wrote on May 24, 2007 12:50 PM:My son played the ukelele during his high school band years. Many times he had to play/march under extreme weather conditions and even had to dodge debris thrown at him when a performance went sour. His constant marching and quick manuevering allowed him to not only perfect the art of ukelele playing but he became physically fit. His finger agility was also enhanced Thus, band is good physical training.Thoughts while tiptoing through the tulips

Sam wrote on May 24, 2007 12:54 PM:What's wrong with a few obese band members here and there?

GOHS Spirit Band Dad wrote on May 24, 2007 2:12 PM:As a proud parent/board member of the GOHS Spirit Band and Colorguard, I attend all of the after school practices. I see these dedicated young men and women practicing 2-3 hours two or three times a week, not to mention the weekend competitions. They are running laps, stretching, doing push-ups and sit-ups before practice even starts. This is per the Band Director. I am told they also do this each day at the start of the band period before the actual practice starts. They march in full uniform during some of the hottest days of the late summer/early fall. I have seen band members get sick and light headed due to the heat and rigors of practices. To state that Band is not PE is correct. They are very different in the structure of what they do/achieve, but make no mistake about it, they are getting a work out that is equivalent to a one hour PE class each day.

Duane wrote on May 24, 2007 2:40 PM:If students get more exercise in Marching Band than they do in P.E., it's the P.E. curriculum that needs to be upgraded. Now if it were a *running* band, perhaps ...

Cynthia wrote on May 24, 2007 2:55 PM:My son is currently in the Vista Murrieta band program. Anyone who is familiar with the program can attest to the rigorous workout these band members get each time they are out there practicing 3-4 times a week or more. It is physically demanding and time consuming. In addition to a period during the school day they practice in the evenings and on weekends. This has to count for PE credit. In addition as band is an elective there would be no time in the schedule for another class. Let's hope the board can come up with a compromise to satisfy the state requirements.

Diane wrote on May 24, 2007 5:57 PM:What's also interesting to me is that dancing for 1 hour per day as a class counts for PE in a lot of school districts. Yet, hour for hour, band programs equate to many more hours of actual physical exercise than dance or PE. How many hours are spent in band marching vs. how many hours of PE each day. I bet band requires many more hours each week before you even add the dawn, evening, weekend and summer practices. ... Many schools have figured out how to address the PE curriculum with band. Doesn't seem that hard to me!

Michelle of THS wrote on May 24, 2007 6:12 PM:Compared to some other classes such as "Power Walking" marching band gets much more exercise and general fitness. My marching band practices 9 hours a week, not including extra practices for any upcoming competitions or shows and even I have been on the verge of fainting from horrible weather conditions and we also have a 2 week marching band camp of 6 hours each day to be able to get a head start and help freshman/new members get some quick basics. Also after just a couple months of marching band, I could tell I was in the best shape I had ever been, no PE classes in middle school helped me become that fit before. Also the actual "education" part(more stuff to do with studying) is learned by everyone in a Health class that is required to graduate. PS Our director makes us run about half a mile about every other practice. Not to mention the fact that marching is much different from walking.

Leslie wrote on May 24, 2007 8:18 PM:Check out the state standards for PE by googling California + state standards for physical education.

John wrote on May 24, 2007 8:19 PM:I'll accept Band as "physical education" when a tuba player can blow "From the Halls of Montezuma" while doing 50 pushups and reciting key nutritional information and identifying the key food groups.

Kes wrote on May 24, 2007 9:56 PM:As a band mom of two band members in a high school I find this offensive. As a competition band you practice 3 to 5 hours a day. And during the summer band camp you practice in heat over 100 degrees sometimes 5 days a week. Marching band includes rhythm and dance, takes a lot of careful planning of certain routines to songs. I would rather have my kids in band than getting in trouble on the streets. Music helps in all academic areas, provides exercise, they work very hard, and now you want to take that away, the music programs will lose a vast amount of students if this is implemented, some kids are natural at reading music, not everyone can play an instrument,learn formations, movements,steps or marching takes a dedicated student. It is a form of P.E. their exercising and doing something they love, or they wouldn't be in it. What you are doing is punishing the musicians for what they like.

JD wrote on May 24, 2007 11:47 PM:There two things at play here: physical activity v. physical education (as noted in the article). As far as physical activity, you likely get more of it doing marching band than traditional P.E. classes. However, it is the education portion that the state seems to be worried about; in marching band, you aren't being "educated" on physical aspects. Of course, as anybody who's actually taken a traditional P.E. course can attest to, you don't learn anything there either (except the rules to various sports). What the students really need is a Diet & Exercise class... I'm taking one at UCLA now, and it is FAR better than any physical "education" i received in high school.

haha wrote on May 25, 2007 8:20 AM:I hope band doesnt count for PE. get those nerds out in the field and do some real exercise...what a bunch of geeks.

Robby wrote on May 25, 2007 3:05 PM:To Geek or Not to Geek, that appears to be the question. I agree with the last blogger that Band participation in lieu of the physical education requirement is ridiculous. Get those prima donna horn players and drum pounders out on an athletic field where they can sweat off some of that extra poundage that adversely impacts their ability to march in cadence.

to haha wrote on May 27, 2007 3:33 PM:you called them bunch of geeks.. yeah most of them are straight A students and very happy in what they do, very respectfull, hardworking, loving kids.

Are You Serious wrote on Oct 23, 2007 8:57 PM:During my first year in hs I put in so much time into marching. I had before school practices starting at 6am and after school sectionals on wednesdays and thursdays for 2 hours. We do way more work in marching band then in PE. So what's the big deal?? Besides who doesnt love marching in below freezing temperatures.

Bill wrote on Oct 28, 2007 2:06 AM:I didn't have marching band for P.E. when I was in high school 35 years ago and I carried an antique sousaphone that weighed half my weight. Actually, I enjoyed playing that tuba. We were required to have four years of P.E. back then (one semester for every semester of attendance). I think only two are required today, so it's still only 2/3 of what I had to go through (and the rest of the "baby boomer" generation who was in the band!) Later, I joined the Army and I was glad to have a real physical education experience. After my honorable discharge, I went back to school and got bachelor's and master's degrees in music, with a tuba concentration. I now teach and play tuba overseas. It's a great life.

LJ wrote on Nov 1, 2007 9:57 PM:has anyone actually SEEN a PE class in HS nowadays? theyre absolutely pathetic. the PE teachers cannot force the kids to do anything. most of them dont even care. i see kids walking around a field, sitting around a basketball court "waiting" to play (by waiting, i really mean avoiding any movement at all costs). if this is about physical activity, the marching band deserves more than their fair share of credit. they do more willingly than the PE teachers force their kids to do. FIX YOUR PE CLASSES AND THEN USE THEM AS A STANDARD. if this is about education, throw what they need to learn into that required health class that each highschool student is suppose to take in HS. just a note, if you think GOLF is more physical in band because its a sport that has rules... i just dont have words for whoever thinks that.

band parent123 wrote on Jan 18, 2008 6:18 AM:Why is it that the people that are in charge of education in this state think that running is the only way to achieve fitness?
My daughter was made to run all the time in middle school and never became physically fit. Why? because she HATED IT!!!

She joins marching band and is in the best shape of her life. Over the season she dropped almost 20 pounds due to all of the daily practice and competitions. And you know the best thing?? She enjoyed it and will continue to be fit because she has an activity that appeals to her.

What the standard makers don't seem to get is that if you make something enjoyable, you're going to promote fitness and get the person to make it routine. Personally, I really don't think that intimate knowledge of the food pyramid or the rules for volleyball will make any difference to my child's future employer.
How sad that the state is so ignorant!!

student wrote on Feb 4, 2008 6:10 PM:My marching band marches at LEAST 10 hours a week for practice. We're in the hot scorching sun and the cold during the winters. We start band camp 1 month before school starts and even go to practices and competitions almost every Saturday. This exceeds what normal "PE students" are doing! Honestly, people CANNOT blame "band kids" for the obesity in California. If a child is obese, it doesn't neccesarily mean that they don't get enough exercise. A person has a CHOICE to be obese and people can't blame it on kids who are in band that work twice as hard and get plenty of exercise. Bands practice more than most high school sport teams and most of the time we get no credit for it. Why should we be punished for doing something we love?

Also, to people who aren't in band, don't judge us by what you see because you don't even know HALF of what we're doing. So stop thinking you know it all and that we're just "band geeks". You're just being ignorant.

TVHS band student wrote on Feb 26, 2008 7:29 PM:as a student in a high school band. i realize that many can believe that it is not a "active" activity. you could not be any more wrong. as a player in sports and such i can compare freely that band ranks up on the toughness level to some of the sports. just think about this, they would allow the band to keep thier p.e credits if thier director had a p.e credential, except you would not have to do anything different, just by having the credential they could have the credits. what has the state come to, blaming clubs on obesity based purely on stereotypical ignorance. it's just sad if you ask me.

Rene wrote on Feb 27, 2008 9:37 PM:What is wrong with the state. They are not thinking clearly. They cannot take away the PE Credit from band. As of what I know, my friends in colorguard told me that they will have PE Credits taken away from them also, and then also including the Dance PE. The state has to think on how hard the students that are in these activities work. It is hard for a band member to walk across that field over and over and over again, in the summer heat, blow in their instrument. Even though, I am not a band member. I do and can see how hard it is. Even for the drummers. Some of them carry those big drums. And I truly doubt that it weighs less. Those things are heavy. That is some work out right there. Being in band is not something easy. You have to learn how to play an instrument, then you have to go practice on the field for many hours during the summer. Then colorguard. It is not easy to spin a flag, rifle, or sabre. It is hard work. You don't just toss it, and whatever. As a former colorguard member. I know what it takes to do it. Especially on rifle. Since it is the heaviest equipment of all. It is not easy to spin it. Then the hours. At my school for winterguard, they will be have 6 - 8th period. and that is from around 1- 4:30, and that there is already 3 1/2 hours. It is pretty hard to work on the show. And going over and over a bunch of times to make your show perfect. Guard does not just stand there and do nothing. They run, the do push ups, crunches, and other work outs. It ain't that easy being on guard. And the same thing with dance. You work out, and all to work with every single muscle in your body. And I am aware that this article is about band, but at my school I have gotten from the instructors myself that their PE credit is maybe going to be taken away. And I agree with "LJ" The state has to go to the schools and actually see what the PE students are doing. Last year. As I was in guard taking a break. I saw the students jsut sitting there doing absolutely nothing. It is pretty sad that the people that are doing something, will have to do even more.
PE should not be taken away. It is just a big stupid idea. It will jsut be way to much for the students to take...stupid!

SGHS band student wrote on Mar 6, 2008 4:22 PM:I think the school board should go to the schools and watch what the people do in marching band and compared what they do in regular pe classes. And they should think on what the students do. Because the students will be affected if they say it doesnt count because the students will be effected and might have time or the room to take a pe class.
As a student in a marching a think that its offensive when people say that in marching band they dnt do anything. Marching band is basicly the same thing as a sport. People put their own time and effort into some they want to do, something that would make them proud to do. I understand that people just want to take band to get out of pe but in high school but pe classes are just so patheic. Student just take them and arent really committed to it. Marching band is tough when you have to work in the hot sun for hours working on something over and over again until you get it right, on top of that you probably have a band teaches/assistants yelling at you to do something the wat they want it. Beeing in band is also rewarding because you have many memories with close friends that are also in band and also enjoy what they do. The feeling when you win a major trophy is great.You feel proud of what you accomplished.In marching we do twice as more work and effort then people in pe classes. While people in band are at band camp working their butts off over the summer for long hours and while people who arent are probably at home laying around beeing lazy. So those people who say we're just some nerds who dont do anything i wanna see you play an instrument while marching, keeping up with the drum major, be in step, memorize music,spots for the drill, march non-stop for as long as 10 mins, AND counting in your head! Then tell us if we're just some band geeks who are lazy and dont do anything!
Pe credit shouldnt be taken away its stupid. Its basicly the same thing as pe but alot harder.

UCLA Student/Band member wrote on Mar 18, 2008 6:43 PM:This is ridiculous. To say that kids in marching bands are not getting exercise is preposterous. You parents who complain your child in band is still fat, you are the ones at fault. I have read enough studies and marched enough years myself to know that if you are doing it right you should be burning calories. Don't blame the school, blame your child for not eating right and not having an active lifestyle. Even my friends on the UCLA football team agree we exercise and deserve credit. I put in 12 hours a day for 2 weeks before students even show up for the year to begin here at UCLA. I marched the Rose Parade myself, thats 5.2 miles for those of you who don't know. Thats about 4 miles of me holding up my instrument and moving constantly in a uniform. To put it old school, "Don't knock it till you try it." Go watch a DCI show on ESPN and tell me marching band is not exercise. Oh, and try to march all those sets while blowing your brains out. Thanks.

GMaj13 wrote on Mar 27, 2008 8:27 AM:It's not about facts and youth health. It's about power and money. Spalding and Wilson vs Bach and King.

The solution is simple:
Use computer based learning modules for nutrition and health education. Allow students to choose from a list of sanctioned 'activities' where the student heart rate reaches the American Collegiate Sports Association recommended levels for a medium stress cardio-vascular activity.

As it stands, band does not necissarily meet these reqirements. On the other hand, neither do many of the so called PE classes!

The question we all need to be asking is WHAT ARE THE OBJECTIVES? What is the LEARNING GAP they hope to close here?

Saying too many people are fat, and we must close the gap is too broad here folks. If the goal is simply to get heart rates to a certian point for a certian amount of time...then let's make sure that is done. It doesn't really matter if it's the band director, a coach, or the cafeteria lady that's supervising the activity, as long are they are trained to do it safely and effectively.

The problem is, no one really wants to solve either problem. Too many lobbiests are getting filthy rich by dividing schools and communities while politicans sit around arguing about legislation that's not really their place to get involved with anyway.

Simply determine the objective, and make sure it gets done. Also consider what it will cost having taken that time away from some other activity.

Finally consider...what works for one school district does not work for all. That's half the problem these days!

Happy marching, and may the music be with you!

TVHS Band Kid wrote on Mar 30, 2008 4:34 PM:I think it's odd that us band kids are going to lose our PE credits when the cheerleaders get to keep theirs because their coach has a PE credential. I'd like to see one of them carry 35 pounds of brass on their shoulder for four hours in the California summer, not mentioning having to memorize and perfect all the music. We support this school as much as anyone else, but they keep thinking of ways to make things more difficult for us. Compare what we do ( Over ten hours a week in after school practice) to the (maybe) 40-50 minutes of actual physical activity in PE class. In a year of PE, I learned just about nothing about the human body and how to stay fit. I learned that stuff in the HEALTH class we are all mandated to take, so to me the argument that we can't substitute band for PE credit because we don't learn about fitness and nutrition in band is ridiculous, because that stuff was never taught in PE. In the end, it seems like this is just another example of the school district taking potshots at band programs, something they are getting very good at.

Carl wrote on May 5, 2008 5:12 PM:The argument is a fallacy since all sports will be exempt, and they do not address most of the PE areas. Is Golf really better for physical health? JR ROTC and some dance clubs will also be removed from giving PE credit, and they certianly work out a lot more than several sports.

Rahcel wrote on May 13, 2008 9:04 PM:NO! it shouldnt, because band, the class itself is not physicaly demanding at all. They sit in a class room and learn the music. they do all of the physicaly demanding work outside of the class. In that case why dont sports outside of pe get a credit? It just doesnt make sense. marching band is a choice, just like softball or basebal or football, you do not have to to it. that is why you get a letter for participating.