Greg in Oceanside wrote on Jun 30, 2007 12:46 AM:It's about time the military stop the witch hunt. Warfare is an ugly business, and our Marines are doing their job. Recruitment is going to suffer as long as there are investigations and charges brought agains good men. Those killed over there are more than likely guilty of some sort of action against US forces.

Retired Marine wrote on Jun 30, 2007 10:26 AM:There's NO SUCH THING as a Captured Terrorist that Does Not Present a Threat; therefore, it IS NOT Murder.

Joey wrote on Jun 30, 2007 10:29 AM:The longer this circus goes on the more it will diminish moral, retention and recruiting. It may increase casualties in battle because of indeciveness- " if I shot and kill the enemy and defend myself, will I be subject to a courts marial or jail time?" But, does the public know all the facts of this case? Crime and punishment- time will tell.

Steve wrote on Jun 30, 2007 10:41 AM:Sadly, these witch hunts when at "war" make anyone who would join the military - A FOOL. To be second guessed by some BRASS trying to get ahead is absurd. What do they want the service men to do? Oh, I know, GIVE-up and surrender become BEHEADED in living RED WHITE & BLUE color on the SUNDAY NIGHT news. Wake-up this is "war" with a people that wants us either In their Islamic religion, plain dead, or in total slavery with NO middle ground. None! It's, sadly, an eternal war that started 1400 years ago. And, even more sadly, it will end VERY bad for all.

An occupation wrote on Jun 30, 2007 12:17 PM:And Nation Building exercise is not the function of the Marines. Send the U.N. to do it. It is criminal to let the Marines be killed.

What do we stand for? wrote on Jun 30, 2007 12:18 PM:It seems that in the local area the sentiment is a carte blanche, "If we did it: it must be alright". This unequivical support for the troops is understandable, but such moral relativism is always dangerous. It is possible that crimes were committed and that the perpertrators dishonored their unit and branch of service. It isn't alright to commit any act for any reason--just because your in a war zone. There are some expectations and regulations--

censored again wrote on Jun 30, 2007 12:24 PM:If you follow the rules of this forum you still get censored unless you provide republican leaning right wing ideology in your post!!!! Down with NCT for censoring views that are not right wing!!!!!!!

The Cause wrote on Jun 30, 2007 12:26 PM:We allow our troops to be in harm's way in an unwinnable situation and this is the natural result. IMPEACH BUSH AND CHANEY NOW!

Troop Supporter wrote on Jun 30, 2007 12:34 PM:I think part of the agenda behind these circuses IS to hurt retention and recruiting - all part of the anti-American, anti-military, pro-terrorist supporting agenda of the mainstream media and politics of the Left and the Political Correctness to Insane Degree groups. Then they come in later to a mess THEY helped create, blame it on Pres Bush and the Republicans, who they hate more than they love America and especially our military. Then they take on the role of some kind of savers of our beloved country - oh, poor misguided us...so they think. Politics, agenda, and "notches on their belt" are part and parcel of NCIS - bunch of civilians working for a Federal Agency.

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Jun 30, 2007 1:10 PM:Is it possible that this government has been infiltrated or that our leaders may be snorting something? There certainly is NO rational answer. NCIS Agent Buice says no one would comment? Tell me it isn't so. Whatever happened to the good old "LEAKS" we've all become used to? Now we're to believe that the Haditha investigation causes another one from two and a half years ago, and that an organization already under investigation itself for its questionable practices, is going to investigate hearsay from 2004? NCIS can't even present believable, much less "proven", investigatory findings from events that occurred ONE year ago. How about completing the investigation into the investigators before the investigators are allowed to investigate "any"thing. In November 2004, I watched and taped the battle of Fallujah every day. It wasn't just war; it was HELL! Our troops, our Marines have been to Hell and back and this government has the audacity to take them there again? "No True Glory". Just when a general is convening authority over accused Marines he's portrayed in a movie. While Americans are paying their hard earned money to see the film, the "Real Heroes" will be in courtrooms fighting another battle; Defending themselves, not against the enemy from without, but from the enemy within.

I'm afraid wrote on Jun 30, 2007 2:11 PM:Iraq is the responsibility of dubya AND his supporters. He should be Impeached immediately.

Just curious wrote on Jun 30, 2007 3:19 PM:to aw4cryingoutloud: You watched and taped the battle in Fallujah? Are you a correspondent? How did you get over there to pull that off?

Hardcore lefty wrote on Jun 30, 2007 3:22 PM:To censored: I can't agree with your statement. I have found that if you keep it clean-ish and respectable and communicate in a civil tone, you eventually get posted. Try editing yourself a little dude.

Hardcore lefty wrote on Jun 30, 2007 3:26 PM:Lots of bloodthirsty comments on this blog already. Guilty before proven innocent - hey it's war, get over it. What an attitude! Spread that freedom baby. Just make sure you put the dog back on the leash when he's done eating the neighborhood.

2 Steve wrote on Jun 30, 2007 3:34 PM:I'm awake. You are having a nightmare. Wake yourself up and smell the coffee. The war you are describing is mosltly a product of a masterful advertising and PR campaign - not the liberal media. The media is just a tool used by the elite to sell us this war. Remember all the fancy logos, embedded reporters, etc. You've been sold a bill of goods for a hoax and you are blaming the messenger instead of the perpetrators. They sure scared you silly. Calm down and get real. Don't exagerate the threat into the apocolypse. It ain't here yet.

Veteran wrote on Jun 30, 2007 3:37 PM:Are these the same federal idiots that prosecute our own Border Patrol agents for doing their job? These guys had better decide whose side they are on before they cause even a bigger morale issue than they do now. I fought in Vietnam and there are no black or white issues in a combat zone. GIVE IT A REST!!

2 Troop Supporter wrote on Jun 30, 2007 3:43 PM:Agenda to hurt recruiting??? You really think the miltary or the media would do that? You think only republicans care about and love America? Get real!! Hey, it WAS Bush's war. I don't hate the guy - but I do think he screwed up big time. I feel really sorry for Bush. He's got an Iraqi albatross around his neck from now til Kingdom come. I think he and his party are rightly going to be held accountable.

Ice water wrote on Jun 30, 2007 5:06 PM:Fallujah was definately a Hell on Earth; and Bush, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz and our failed policies made it that way!

Wake Up! wrote on Jun 30, 2007 5:16 PM:Fallujah was and is definately a Hell on Earth...and TERRORISTS...made it that way!!

Troop Supporter wrote on Jun 30, 2007 6:49 PM:To post at 3:43 - I did NOT say the military had an agenda to hurt recruiting - the agenda is from the mainstream media and certain politicians and the Left, and these groups shove their agendas down people's throats. And I stand by my belief about that. I also did NOT say that only Republicans care about and love America - I referred to a couple groups - the anti-military, pro-terrorist, anti-American media, the Left, and the Political Correctness to Insane Degree groups. And I stand by my belief that these groups do not care about America. To my knowledge, every person does not fall into one of these groups - and that's a good thing!

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Jun 30, 2007 6:58 PM:To Just curious: Nope, Not a correspondent. Would loved to have been, and would have said so if I was. National televised news, 24/7 embedded reporting. I threw a tape in on September 11 and just kept at it for months.

freedom baby wrote on Jun 30, 2007 7:23 PM:Isn't it nice to be able to say whatever you like in a forum like this without fear of being sent to prison or even killed ... welcome to America baby. Plenty of places out there where you cannot. I'm glad I live in America, but I am not glad the Constitution is at odd with big business and is now behind in the count bigtime. I don't see much improvment in my generation. Maybe in 2012, we'll get a real leader. Pickings are mighty slim now on both sides of the fence. I wish I had not served a career in the USMC; I might have a shot at leading local, regional or national levels. My experience screwed my future and the future of my beautiful sons. This Texas-style adventure in the Middle East is about to have a multi-generational impact that nobody will be in power to change. I hope the flag officers will exhibit the intestinal fortitude of those who went before them ... but hope is not a strategy folks. Good luck Devil Dogs. I know you didn't asked to be placed in this pickle.

Cold shower wrote on Jun 30, 2007 7:33 PM:Bush Rumsfeld Cheney and Wolfy definitely made Iraq a breeding ground for terrorists. They opened the door for disaster. Pandora's box. If Fallujah is a Hell, that's where Bush and Co. belong.

Gambler wrote on Jun 30, 2007 7:35 PM:Anyone care to take a gander on who will be getting presidential pardons first... the Pendleton 8 or Libby?

Relax and calm down wrote on Jun 30, 2007 7:54 PM:About 25 years ago, my mother in-law turned me onto a book called "The Power of Positive Thinking." I wish I had enough copies for the bloggers that write on the NCTimes site. You all should read it, let it soak in and change your attitudes. Although it was written in the 50's it still applies to today. There's a great segment in the book in which the author discusses how to avoid fuming and fretting. It went something like this: "Stop worrying about the communists taking over. The communists are NOT going to take over." This was written during the McCarthy era - and the author, Norman Vincente Peale was right! Communism went belly up. The domino theory never happened. Now the same type of people who fretted about communists are fretting about Islamists. Stop it. Stop thinking negatively. Stop letting shadows spook you. Have faith. If you don't have faith in your fellow Americans - try God. It's all going to be OK. There are bad people in every religion, but we can deal with them. We have it in our power to protect ourselves without going off half cocked. We have a great country with bright creative people. America is going to be OK. Another great line from that book is a quote from Stonewall Jackson... "Don't take counsel of your fears." Think about THAT the next time the word "terrorists" makes you start hyper ventilating. Best wishes for a Happy 4th of July to all - and start thinking positive.

Just curious wrote on Jun 30, 2007 8:01 PM:Thanks for the reply A-Dubya. Guess I should spring for cable TV someday - but it would probably just make me more angry to watch the mess. Reading about it in the paper or online is a little less sensationalized. Just a little.

LINDA wrote on Jun 30, 2007 8:29 PM:I really wish North County Times and other affiliates would NOT make these allegations PUBLIC. I believe it puts the remaining Troops at HIGH RISK, when this kind of 'news' is reported. News like this may have a rippling effect on the remaining Troops in the Middle East and their safety and possible safety of their Units. Will they 'hesitate' under threat, for fear of being held on MURDER charges--thus costing them their very own lives??? PUBLIC News like this may also breed contempt towards the American Troops, by Iraqis--again--putting our Troops at greater risk.

freedom baby wrote on Jun 30, 2007 9:43 PM:hope is not a strategy ... but no doubt good vibes will ensure we are all mellow when it does come. shaka

2 troop Supporter wrote on Jul 1, 2007 8:03 AM:Conservatism isn't a guided missle capable of targeting all the woes of mankind. Without the left wing - the right wing would never get off the ground. Think like an Eagle. You may not like the left - but you need us and our tax money to keep the country humming. (Yes I own a business that generates taxes to fight wars etc.) It's always better when you flap together.

Troop Supporter wrote on Jul 1, 2007 12:19 PM:Topic is getting off course - my comments have been how these agendas hurt our troops. Another time for the group hug! LOL Anyway, I've flapped together with all sorts of people, probably more types than most Lefties ever will or would want to. As a parent of a 3 time deployed infantry military member, I have laughed, cried, discussed, consoled, prayed (!) with people of all different races, income levels, backgrounds, futures, religion, political beliefs, and being in the military is a lesson in diversity - remember our military lives, sleeps, eats together, fights, grieves - it doesn't matter what their beliefs, background, race are - they have a job to do - maybe you would like it!

MorallyRight1 wrote on Jul 1, 2007 4:33 PM:Hasn't there been enough proof, and I do mean 'Proof' that shows that the NCIS is not manned by qualified personnel. Go for yourself and check out what kind of criteria they use to hire. And, furthermore, use unethical and illegal tactics to get to their desired results. And, given the fact that they are going to continue, yes, a 'witch hunt' is shameful. It not only furthers the inability to let our soldiers do what they are trained to do. It makes it almost a certainty that the draft will have to be reinstituted. Because, who in their right mind would ever enlist under such microscopic (and erroenous) scrutiny by a bunch of incompetent egotists such as we have in the NCIS? I have yet to see a bonafide good investigation by them in the past 5 years. And yet they are allowed to continue to undermine our war efforts. When is the White House going to see the error in their ways?

2 Morally Right wrote on Jul 1, 2007 8:04 PM:"When is the White House going to see the error in their ways?" Don't hold your breath.

2 troop supporter wrote on Jul 1, 2007 8:07 PM:Hope your kid survives this God awful war and lives to tell his grandchildren about it. I also hope you get off your high horse and start respecting your fellow Americans who don't share your devotion to Bush's failed foreign policies.

MarineMom wrote on Jul 1, 2007 10:00 PM:It's war!!!! The enemy or perceived enemy gets killed, that's why it is called WAR. For the love of Pete, these boys are sent over to a foreign country and are told they are protecting the USA, what do you think they are going to do to protect the USA? Set off balloons, play musical numbers, dance in the streets, play with butterflies? If the government spend as much time helping these boys that were sent over there after they come home as they have been spending trying to prove they committed a crime for following orders, this country would be alot better off. And I won't even go into the subject of the Bag of Wind in Washington that sends them over there. I am so tired of this mess and all the do-gooders that keep making it bigger and messier. Just bring all of our military home and then there won't be a question about if they killed anyone they weren't "supppose" to kill.

G-man wrote on Jul 2, 2007 6:21 PM:Libby got off - the marines get the brig. Pays to be connected. Nice going Georgie Boy.

Is this Marine Rich wrote on Jul 3, 2007 8:15 AM:Just asking because if he is or his family is connected to President/King George Bush, he doesn't have to worry. He'll be commuted. Of course, all the others who are working hard and still considered poor in the Marines will get life in prison. Such fairness from the head of our country.

MorallyRight1 wrote on Jul 3, 2007 9:05 PM:You know, just as in hundreds of battles, hundreds of wars before this one, there are things that we will never know the absolute truths. Ever. And, for just that reason, our being human, does not make it automatic that there has to be an answer. That does not make it an automatic that someone has to be responsible. Doesn't anyone believe at all anymore, that sometimes things happen 'just because'? And, by that I do not mean some foo-foo, ominous being or beings or even non-beings made it happen. So because you might not believe that, you hang one or ten or twenty men because of your possibly singular belief? The key in that sentence is 'singular'. Because if you remember the Marine Corps has always claimed they leave no one behind. That they are a unified front, standing beside one another forever. Yet in these cases, and others, and those yet to come, I am afraid, there has been only one individual who, one person making decisions based on his own personal feelings, and not the laws that govern him or his actions. And that one person, usually not even qualified by our normal socially accepted criteria, has changed the course of lives. In a phrase, they have 'abused the power given them'. I only hope that someone in the chain of command in the Marines, or in White House, or Pentagon has enough sense to stop this insideious nonesense of charging battle-trained-to-defend military personnel with murder. And, while we are at it, who was the horse's ass that approved media 'tagging along' on the front line? And, for love of God, don't just piegeon hole it by saying "Bush did it!!!". I mean, doesn't the military make any decisiions for themselves without blaming someone else if not popular? Did it prove worthwhile? Nope, it just lost more lives, covering their inexperienced derierres.

I was there wrote on Jul 4, 2007 7:41 AM:My unit was the first ones in Fallujah, and it was no cake walk. Leave the men who are risking their lives alone

mick187thrct wrote on Jul 5, 2007 8:25 PM:I'd like to see this go to trial. The defense could introduce the argument that the Geneva Conventions permit the execution of enemy combatants captured on the battlefield without uniforms as spies. A trial might be an excellent forum to put the insurgents on trial for the many war crimes they have committed such as not wearing uniforms, using civilians as human shields, putting civilians at risk by using civilian cars as improvised bombs, etc.

planoppl wrote on Jul 8, 2007 6:09 AM:I am the Father of two Marines, one currently serving in Iraq. These Marines you speak of...they are your next door neighbor's kids, your boss' kids, your Uncle's kids. One of my sons was Captain of the Cross Country team in High School, the other was just a good natured, average kid. They all are American kids, being asked to put themselves in harms way, in order to keep us safe. Instead of crucifying, we should be thanking them for risking their lives on our behalf. Semper Fi.

joesixpack wrote on Jul 8, 2007 10:21 PM:This is clearly more ACLU dirty work for the purpose of destroying Marine Corps morale and with it the combat effectiveness of the greatest fighting force on the planet. The NC Times could perform a great service by publishing the names and addresses of the NCIS investigators and the Marine Corps JAG prosecutors.

Savage wrote on Jul 10, 2007 5:04 AM:I have one question of the writer of the this piece and also the commentators on the discussion. How can those shot go from "a group of prisoners" in line 1 to "insurgents" in line 12? I'm English and have a lot of respect for the US and especially its focus on liberty and justice but where is the justice in this piece. I sense that because the prisoners are a) dead and b) unlikely to sue, this piece can tarnish them in order to assist in the justification of their deaths. We do not know how why they died but the evidence is not looking good for the marines. This type of reporting is dismissive of human life and existence and does shame to the American tradition that it is pretending to uphold. Shame on you. In reply to the tone of this board, yes it is war and yes it is ugly. I am under no illusions about that coming form a military family. But this war is supposed to be about peace and freedom...

Iraq survivor wrote on Aug 20, 2007 11:50 PM:WAR IS GREY, NOT BLACK AND WHITE. IF YOU WERE NEVER IN COMBAT, YOU WILL NEVER TRULLY UNDERSTAND. THOSE OF YOU WHO STAND BEHIND US, GOD BLESS YOU. THOSE OF YOU WHO ARE AGAINST US, WE MARINES WILL FIGHT FOR YOUR FREEDOM ANYWAY.

to: Iraq survivor wrote on Sep 3, 2007 4:37 PM:Thanks but no thanks, my freedom was never at stake in Iraq, not for one minute. That is a war of aggression and occupation against a country that hadn't the capacity to threaten us or our freedom. Now that we have attacked it, it has become a second front for Al Quieda, but even so our continued occupation continues to threaten America's freedom. I hate to tell you but you only made things worse. Those who died there, sacrificed their lives to cover for the worst blunder in our history. Bush was over there today shaking hands with those who two months ago were killing americans.