mark wrote on Jul 2, 2007 10:52 PM:Our new "best buddies" the Sunni tribal leaders probable ordered the investigation to prove we're willing to throw our own under the bus because we need their help so much. Funny all these accusations involve Camp Pendleton and not Camp Lejeune Marines. The NCIS knows were it's shoddy investigations are most likely to receive a sympathetic reception.

Greg in Oceanside wrote on Jul 2, 2007 11:23 PM:"Credible allegations?" I have doubts as to any truth to "credible allegations" and think they are more like innuendos and lies. Those supposedly killed were insurgents. These are not good people and were probably responsible for waging warfare against our forces, and possible responsible for the 4 Blackwater deaths that precipitated the battle in April for Fallujah in April 2004. The military needs to rethink this prosecution carefully, or it will face an unprecedented recruitment shortage the likes they have never seen before. War is fair and is an ugly affair. Bad people, as well as good people are killed, maimed and injured. We need to quit dragging our good military people through the mud and doing these witch hunts.

Here we go....... wrote on Jul 2, 2007 11:27 PM:OMG, awful4 and her cronies will be defending a third group of suspected war criminals, and pleading that because they are in a war zone, they have complete immunity, regardless of the nature of the atrocity, evidence or even confessions!

John wrote on Jul 3, 2007 12:41 AM:Well Said Mark

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Jul 3, 2007 12:55 AM:NCIS finds allegations against Marines credible? NCIS wouldn't recognize "credible allegations" if they jumped up and bit them in the butt. WHOSE credibility? More Iraqi testimony? More Iraqis who will never be seen again once they know our troops are screwed? We have an investigative organization that is supposedly being investigated for its own improper and questionable investigative practices and its practice of coercive interrogations; yet this ridiculous bunch of civilians admit that they're investigating "more" Marines? Heaven help these guys. The lives of 15 Marines have already been ruined. WHO in their right mind would allow NCIS to investigate any Marine for anything? What happened to the investigation into NCIS that was ordered in January? Anybody heard anything about it? This is the most blatant display of government abuse of power that I never wanted to see in my lifetime. This bunch of renegade civilians who abuse their power must be our Gestapo. Sad, because I thought that was something from another time.

NCIS is investigating! wrote on Jul 3, 2007 3:52 AM:What are they going to LIE about this time???

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Jul 3, 2007 7:36 AM:To Here we go: Darn Straight! What's your problem? Why aren't YOU tired of NCISBS? Are these not YOUR fellow countrymen? Do you care more about enemy propaganda than our own Marines? Why don't you try paying attention to what the enemy is doing and get off the backs of our Marines? NO ONE, Not one single person on these blogs has said anyone should have immunity but they have said that our leaders and NCIS should have confirmed what Iraqis said. They have said that Americans should have given OUR Marines the benefit of the doubt. NCIS hasn't PROVEN one thing. "Beyond A Reasonable Doubt", remember that? UCMJ...Read it! NCIS coerced and intimidated its way into plea bargains. Wise up! How about defending OUR people. How about giving OUR people the benefit of the doubt. Go put your application in for employment with NCIS. Shucks; they'd probably start you at the top. You seem to already have their mindset.

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Jul 3, 2007 7:41 AM:When you think about it; re-reading the title of the article is actually sadly funny...knowing what we do about NCIS. Dark Humor would be a good word for it. Is anybody really instilled with confidence that NCIS says it "confirms" something? Odd that they never bothered to confirm Iraqi testimony. Dark Humor!

Concerned-1 wrote on Jul 3, 2007 9:31 AM:I saw this story break last week here in the NCT. Congratulations NCT for sending in your "investigative" reporter to stir the stew. You have now officially joined the people who want to destroy this country. And NCIS, you're right there too. Keep it up and we won't have an armed forces capable of fighting. Oh, but we will be politcally correct and the world will love us again....yeah right!

To the Iraq Cheerleaders wrote on Jul 3, 2007 11:35 AM:You only like the official position when it supports your warped (and minority) view of what is going on in Iraq. Your like an alcoholic in denial, it would be funny if thousands of people were not dying.

Jerry: wrote on Jul 3, 2007 8:37 PM: To Mark Walker - All the Marine Corp comes under the Sec. of the Navy. In addition I wish when you mention the UCMJ please give the location in that document you are quoting.

Straight Majority wrote on Jul 3, 2007 8:50 PM:Support our troops, our brave young men and women who serve our country, our sons and daughters and loved ones, our neighbors, some of our best and brightest. Ugly,ill informed, sweeping general negative comments here from a few people about our troops are just that, and possibly made by the same poster under different names - common tactic to make it look like his/her views are more common. Thanks to the NCT for good coverage of these cases - much better coverage and more fair, informed, and objective than mainstream news outlets have provided.

Listen up!!! wrote on Jul 3, 2007 9:29 PM:I wonder how you people will feel when these ... idiots start slamming gas and nail filled vehicle bombs into shopping center then wonder why there are no soldiers or marines to protect you. WHY!!! Because none of them will want to be prosecuted for doing what has to be done to fanatics who won't think twice of chopping your head off with a rusty sword! As for NCIS well there success at failure is well documented NCIS should stand for N.o C.omment I.'m S.tupid! Nuff' said!

NCIS puh-lease wrote on Jul 3, 2007 9:31 PM:NCIS couldn't find breasts in a strip joint let alone complete a competent investigation!

MorallyRight1 wrote on Jul 3, 2007 9:35 PM:To Here we go....the third incident? Have you had your head buried in the sand? Yes, it is the third to be publicized and totally torn to shreds in the media. With no hope for justice. However, one little phrase caught my eye: "The Department of the Navy law enforcement agency is composed of civilian investigators who are not under Marine Corps control." Sounds a bit encouraging...maybe the Marines are trying to separate themselves from the thinly veiled group of untrained non-professionals called the NCIS? Naw, that just can't happen. But they are saying for all the world to see....that this same group is above the laws of the land again, and above reproach, as far as they are concerned. And from the blogs I have seen here over the past year....it is not who they are targeting so much as how they are going about it, how they are prosecuting, how they are incarcerating (or not, if you're lucky), the tactics used to coerce, the methods of 'investigating' by using lies, deceit and closed doors, no Maranda applies here. No legal counsel while interrogated. One group gets the lie detector tests, the others 'not'. Musical marines, wherein the powers that be, try and succeed to turn one man or many against those that strand strong on their convictions. One man dead vs 20+ women and children, oh well!! That sort of thing. The blatant disregard for their own Bible of justice, ie; the Uniform Code of Military Justice. This is a war. People will die. Whether we like the political party at the helm or not, they have all been there are one time or another, and no one likes war. But, I'll be damned if I want another 9-11 in my backyard. Now, I know there are those of you out there who say that won't happen. Well, get your history books out guys. Because, it has and it did and it will. But maybe this time, it just could be from the inside out. Just take a gander at the requirements to be an 'investigator' for the NCIS. Or better yet, take a look at the immigration stats. That should tell it all.

MorallyRight1 wrote on Jul 3, 2007 9:37 PM:correction: 3rd paragraph....."...against those that stand strong..' sorry

Samuel wrote on Jul 3, 2007 9:54 PM:Oh come on now, I mean really... I can't recall if these guys were really Captured hmmm, maybe... they were still trying to fight and thats when these soldiers defended their brothers and sisters from harms way. As long as these terrorist are alive, they present a threat. There JUSTIFIED. I am proud to be an American, Happy Birthday America!!!

MorallyRight1 wrote on Jul 3, 2007 9:58 PM:To Aw4 @ 12:55am. Boy you got that one right on the money. And, if you look at the history again, this isn't the first time they have been under the microscope, and found dirty. Yet it continues. And, yet, somehow we are still viewing our government, our military, as a democratic way of governing? I think we have gotten way off the beaten path, and need to get those pockets of individuals hung by their own Bible, and see how well they would fare. They (the CO, the White House, the Congress, whom ever is allowing this kind of BS to continue) have gotten so bold, and so arrogant to think they can do this and continue to get away with it. Well, hold on, because I think, just maybe, there is going to be a battle to behold, and it is going to be against those same individuals. One can only hope. Let's get this country out of their selfish, power hungry hands, and back to the citizenry. This isn't Paint Ball in the north forty, folks, this is our sons, our husbands, our brothers loosing their lives, loosing their freedoms at the hands of....of....well, let's just say, personnel that shouldn't have that power.

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Jul 4, 2007 12:33 PM:Ironic isn't it that on Independence Day we're observing the lack thereof. We're observing the persecution of those who fight for our independence. We're observing an buse of governmental power in denying our Marines their rights. Has this government no shame? I believe this government has forgotten the words that NCTimes published for today; words spoken by Thomas Jefferson, who was full aware of the potential of government to abuse its power, when he said..."that to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the (consent) of the governed. That whenever (any) form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the (right) of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government." NCIS has become destructive of these ends and I believe that the majority are fed up with it. There are three branches of government, for the specific purpose of keeping each in line and from overstepping their powers. NCIS is not now, nor has it "ever" been held accountable for its inefficient and questionable practices. It has usurped and blatantly abused its powers. This is one governmental organization that needs some serious "altering". Then, celebrating "Independence" Day might feel right.

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Jul 4, 2007 2:13 PM:Correction: 2nd sentence...an "abuse" of power. I left out the 'a'. It's MR1's fault. Sorry Morally. Just kidding!

3 Equal Branches wrote on Jul 4, 2007 4:43 PM:Yes the Consitution establishes three branches of government but in the past 6 years we have seen the executive surplant both the judiciary and the legislative and reduce the US Constitution to a "scrap of paper". The supreme court has been stacked with ideologues who have no respect or alliagence to the prinicpals upon which our country was founded; the Justice Department has been reduced to an arm of the Republican National Committee under Gonzales, and the legislature has been afraid to exercise its responsibility to provide oversight and/or to investigate the actions of the Executive, including its "signing statements" which are in fact usurptations of the Legislative function.

To awful4 wrote on Jul 4, 2007 9:14 PM:"In the Hamdania case, five of eight Camp Pendleton troops have PLEAD GUILTY". accept it.

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Jul 4, 2007 10:04 PM:To the post at 9:14PM: I "accept" the truth. In the Hamdania case five young men were coerced into making plea deals to save their butts from lenghty sentences. They plead guilty to lesser charges. Try reading the UCMJ. It says there must be corroboration and proof of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt for a conviction. When was the trial that gave any of the five accused that chance? NO one was convicted. NO one was proven guilty. NO one had a trial. Grow a brain!

John1 to Three Equal wrote on Jul 5, 2007 1:05 AM:"Idealogues" in the Supreme Court? Hmm, I think that razor cuts both ways? Ms. Justice Bader-Ginsberg was the chief counsel to the ACLU, hardly a middle of the road organization.... The principles that founded our country are quite contrary to you, I deem.

to post @9:14 wrote on Jul 5, 2007 2:11 AM:Five of the eight thought only of themselves and plead guilty. Wouldn't you? They were told in no uncertain terms: 25 yrs to life. So, let's see, 12 months if they plead guilty. Sure, it's called 'The Deal of a Lifetime'. And each of these five know that now, as they are or will soon be walking the streets free men. That's how we see that justice is served? By a spat on the hands if they agree to tell the story the way the bogus NCIS wants it told. And, to accept it, means just another notch in an already too full belt for those trying to demolish any sort of justice for these, and others to follow. Sure, lay down, sweep it under the rug, give up yet another right under our own constitution. The treatment and subsequent charging of our own military, at the suggestions and accusations of our enemies has got to stop. Accept that.

Hey Wait wrote on Jul 5, 2007 2:14 AM:'The Department of the Navy law enforcement agency is composed of civilian investigators who are not under Marine Corps control.' I presume the reporter is referring to the NCIS. And if so, when did they now become a 'law enforcement agency'??? Well, I guess that is their new role, since they can't investigate themselves out of a paper bag!!

3=to John1 wrote on Jul 5, 2007 5:11 PM:Ruth Bader Ginsberg received unanimous vote for confirmation and the ACLU, contrary to the hysterical public in southern California, is one of strongest advocates for Constitutional principals. Her votes as a Supreme Court Judge have not been out of the mainstream and have never had the effect of reversing years of jurisprudence and attacking precedent such as Brown vs. Board of Education. (By the way the use of stilted language like “I deem” doesn’t make your non-gramatical and nonsensical comment, about my love for the principals upon which our country was founded, sound more intelligent—it makes you sound ridiculous and ignorant.)

3= wrote on Jul 6, 2007 11:08 AM:principles not principals (I hate it when that happens.)

to 3= wrote on Jul 6, 2007 6:52 PM:gramatical = grammatical (busted again!)

goblin wrote on Oct 21, 2007 11:14 PM:[*map/map_index_cnx2_14.txt||10||r||1|| @]