so obvious wrote on Jul 12, 2007 10:34 PM:It's so obvious that the editorial writer has never had a bad day, is white, is a man and doesn't undestand prejudice or diversity. What a waste of paper and webspace.

John wrote on Jul 12, 2007 10:53 PM:Let's end the social engineering in Iraq first! What a disaster.

Ron wrote on Jul 13, 2007 6:46 AM:What a great day in America! As said by Martin Luther King: "I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: 'We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal." "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."

not so obvious wrote on Jul 13, 2007 7:03 AM:he writer is 100% correct. It does not matter what the writers color or gender are. Your post shows your own ignorance and intolerance. It is well past time we stop blameing others for whatever problems we individually may have, and realize that all of us do in fact have the same opportunity to either succeed or fail based upon our own skills drive and iniative. Race and gender bias is the cry of the ones who cannot understand that it is up to them not the government to provide for themselves.

problem wrote on Jul 13, 2007 8:42 AM:The problem with racially unbalanced schools is not the imbalance of race but the imbalance of everything else that follows. Having a good, mostly white school and a good, mostly minority school is not in itself a tragedy. The tragedy is that more often than not, the mostly minority schools get fewer resources and are subpar compared to the mostly white schools, and this is a violation of minority students' civil right to equal access. Engineering racial balance helps to balance other factors so that the playing field is more level. For this reason alone, it should not be abandoned.

GFN wrote on Jul 13, 2007 9:32 AM:I do agree with this sentence: "When it gets down to it, parents want to know that their children are prepared to compete and excel as adults." It's true that parents want to "know", however, too many parents do not want to be a part of, or a force in, or do the work to enable their children to reach the level of competency.

Roby wrote on Jul 13, 2007 11:03 AM:GNF, that's good, let's continue to blame the parents & students ONLY for this mess (just like in your other comment on the VUSD editorial). Guess what? Our schools are BAD....the system is broken. You can blame non-english speaking students, students who some claim "don't want to learn" & parents who don't care all you want. Diversion & blame like this (sorry, nothing we really can be expected to do about that....just give us more money & we'll try) works well to maintain the status quo. Here's a question for you though: If our schools are not bad, how do you explain the fact that the MAJORITY of students who pursue a college education (2 & 4 year programs) REQUIRE remediation? These are our "best" students, right? How can they get through school, with "passing grades," (many with grades that qualify them for the honor roll), graduate with a diploma & still NOT be ready to take college level courses? Could it be that our K-12 educational system is not adequately preparing them? How about those students that go directly in to the work force...do you think they are adequately prepared? Most don't even know how to make change! Parents & students believe that passing grades are a sufficient indicator that these kids are learning what they need to learn but they are NOT. Grades are subjective not objective. We need MAJOR reform. Even the recently released "Getting Down to Facts" studies indicate that just throwing more money (and they are talking about a substantial increase in funding) at education, without major reform, will do little to help. (Should 100% of our State budget go to fund education or should our taxes be doubled?) Yes, we have students and parents that just don't care but as long as we have educrats like Jack O'Connell & the rest of them believing that what we are currently doing is adequate and as long as the taxpaying public continues to believe their rhetoric, don't expect much (except what you'll be required to cough up in taxes) to change.

GFN wrote on Jul 13, 2007 2:50 PM:To Roby; please go back and read my post more carefully. I did not say "let's continue to blame the parents & students ONLY for this mess." Also, go back and re-read my other post also and you will see who and what I blame. I do agree we need major reform also, and I do not believe it will take more money, and I am not against evaluation of teachers or introducing more rigor into the curriculum. But, the major problem we have in VUSD is the incredible number of ESL students. I also believe that the governments and courts have given too much power to students.

To so obvious wrote on Jul 13, 2007 4:44 PM:See, because you don't agree with someone you have to start name calling. Our world needs less of that and more understanding and tolerance of other peoples views. So because someone is white, they are prejudice? That is just a sad statement and you are the prejudice one.

Roby wrote on Jul 13, 2007 9:13 PM:What power do student have? What you said about ESL students bothers me because I know administrators who believe that students can not achieve because they are brown, black or red. I also know teachers who are disgusted by what those students were NOT taught by the time they get them. There are MANY teachers who are under appreciated and under paid but there are also some who should NOT be teaching. I'm NOT against paying the good teachers more money but with that must come an accountability & rating system to weed out the bad teachers (and the bad administrators), I just can't stand the rhetoric from people like Jack O'Connell, the CTA or the NEA. The NEA would like to tweak NCLB by lowering class size (no more than 15) while increasing funding ($15K per student). That's already being done in Washington DC. Do you know how bad those students are doing? Parents buy into the lower class size not thinking that their children may then be placed in a class with an unprepared teacher. Teachers are the single most important indicator of a child's success or failure. I'd rather have my child placed in a class with 40 students with a good teacher than in a class of 20 with an poor teacher. I believe that education is or can be the most important equalizer for all. What we currently have now is crap & pretty expensive crap at that.

Alice wrote on Jul 13, 2007 9:43 PM:In a perfect world the decision of the Supreme Court would make sense. In this world it does not, we NEVER achieved the dream of the Brown vs. Board of Education or Dr. King's. This issue will resurface and go before congress and be overturned, unfortunately by the time it comes back again thousands more students will have fallen through the cracks. Amazingly the white race survives with very few losses. While I agree with NCT on the issue of “social engineering at the expense of educational excellence.” One would be wise to read the ideas of the Aristotle, Plato and Socrates and find similarities in their ideas so ingrained and accepted in our educational culture. Now more then ever there is a VERY STRONG EMPHASIS on social engineering in our public schools. The fact that the U.S.A. is incapable of producing scientists, mathematicians, engineers, etc. should not be a mystery but rather the result of this social engineering. Our schools are producing good government workers and politicians and not much else.

GFN wrote on Jul 14, 2007 9:50 AM:Roby, excellent post. Students have been given "rights" by the courts and their parents. When schools try to enforce clothing, cell phone, or homework rules and regulations, it's the parents who complain the most. Teachers cannot punish a student without parents screaming for their heads and the students know this and act accordingly. Sadly, school administrators are so afraid of being sued that they will go along with the student or parent...teacher loses; student no longer respects or listens to teacher. I totally agree with your statement, "I also know teachers who are disgusted by what those students were NOT taught by the time they get them." THIS IS A HUGE PROBLEM and it is where our schools drop the ball. A story: I have a friend who teaches Algebra II. She got a student who didn't know Algebra I and was also very disruptive. After checking, she found the student had a "B" in Alg I and she asked his teacher why? His Alg I teacher said that he was a bad student who was very rude and disruptive. She tried to get him disciplined, but he always was sent back and nothing of consequence ever happened to him. This one student made her day hell and took all the joy of teaching from her job. She said she could not stand the thought of failing him and having him back the next semester, so she gave him a B grade and sent him to Alg II. This lady is a great teacher who never got support; was she wrong? I also agree with the rest of your post and congratulate your love of education. If we keep working at it, maybe some change will occur.

GFN wrote on Jul 14, 2007 11:14 AM:Roby, one more thing. You write:"I also know teachers who are disgusted by what those students were NOT taught by the time they get them." Your wording says that the teachers and administration are to blame because the students were not "taught". Maybe they were; maybe they just didn't "learn". If you use learn, then the why they didn't learn needs to be investigated.

GFN wrote on Jul 14, 2007 11:19 AM:Roby, an anecdote to show my point about being taught and learning: A man called his friend and said to come over, I taught my dog to speak English. The friend comes over; the dog doesn't say anything. Friend says, I thought you said you taught the dog to speak? I did, said the man, but I guess he didn't learn. I can teach well all day long, but if the student won't learn...

To GFN wrote on Jul 14, 2007 8:22 PM:In your Alg 1 teacher example ... 'Was she wrong?' ... ANSWER: Yes ... she was wrong. She chose to make her life easier by letting an unqualified student progress. She did a disservice not only to the already troubled education system but to the student and, probably most importantly, to herself. She's clearly in the wrong line of work!

I am a HS teacher wrote on Jul 23, 2007 9:07 AM:GFN and Roby: Such are the arguments that happen in the school system. - Some teachers need to GO. - Some students DO NOT try to learn. No matter how many rights we all have, and how many people we have complaining...these things will never change.