FROWISS wrote on Aug 19, 2007 8:57 PM:All the more reason to protect the San Luis Rey River aquifer system as virtually San Diego County's only local freshwater supply. Oceanside mixes it with Metro water and 200,000 residents drink it. Permitting the Gregory Canyon Landfill will eventually destroy the San Luis Rey River aquifer system through toxic leachate, which will inevitably infiltrate our precious groundwater supply in these aquifers.

Hilarious! wrote on Aug 19, 2007 9:12 PM:Over development, not a fish, is endangering the water supply..that and our green, green lawns and golf courses. C'mon Gig. I know you didn't write that headline!

GFN wrote on Aug 19, 2007 11:42 PM:Moritorium until the water issue is solved!

Paul wrote on Aug 20, 2007 6:06 AM:Replant those green lawns with low water maintenance plants, learn to take Navy showers, and flush the toilet fewer times. The farmers will have to cut back on their produce production resulting in price increases.

Jon wrote on Aug 20, 2007 6:08 AM:Lets have a fish fry.Problem solved.

Green, but not stupid wrote on Aug 20, 2007 6:19 AM:It's time to let them die, just as the dinosaurs, the mammouths and the saber tooth tiger, it's all part of evolution.

jaxd wrote on Aug 20, 2007 6:43 AM:I have no idea what a delta smelt is or does, but here is another ridicilious example of some insignificant animal taking over our lives. Why don't these wacko environmentalist help some homeless family; volunteer to help people instead of trying to make our lives difficult.

Alf wrote on Aug 20, 2007 6:51 AM:For so long as building and grading permits are still being issued, my lawn stays green. I will not cut back on watering my plants and lawn so that there can be yet MORE houses and MORE draws on this "limited" supply. If water is so limited, why are cities still issuing permits? Regards, Alf.

to Green from Brown wrote on Aug 20, 2007 7:04 AM:It's time to let them die?You must mean the golfers, the developers, the avocado growers and the rest of us who depend on water from hundreds of miles away to sustain our way of life. you certainly couldn't mean the fish. The fish have lived for billions of years without any adverse effect on their enviornment.

cts wrote on Aug 20, 2007 7:31 AM:I'll trade the 1/3 loss in water supply if they stop building. If this isn't a clue that we have passed our building limit in the region, I don't know what is. I don't know any Delta Smelt personally but everything deserves to live.

Robert24 wrote on Aug 20, 2007 7:35 AM:I'm with "Jon" and "Green". I'm sure these fish provide little in the big scope, and probably aren't nearly as "endangered" as we are led to believe (I can tell you a Gnat Catcher story that is probably similar). Transplant the fish to some environmentalist's swimming pool and pump the water!

LLB wrote on Aug 20, 2007 7:38 AM:Surely there is another solution. This sounds like a solution looking for a problem. Find a new home for the fish and keep the economy alive.

Smelt Fishy wrote on Aug 20, 2007 8:09 AM:So, this just goes to prove that humans are the scourge of the Earth. A tiny fish has more rights to life than the People of Southern California. So. Cal needs to band together to take back this state from the liberal human haters (funny, aren't the liberals human? I guess they should help their cause of cleaning the envirnoment of the sourge known as Humans by following the age old pratice of the limmings: run down to the ocean and drown themselves. Would cut the human population by quite a bit, decrease teh greenhouse gasses, demand on water, power, food, land, etc. and help all those people and things said liberals keep saying we are destroying). And, if this Judge rules for the fish, feed him to the fish (vote him out of office next election or recall him!). Thirsty people can get very rowdy, and I really don't think these people have considered just how much people like their Water!

To Brown wrote on Aug 20, 2007 8:11 AM:You drink water too! Your body needs water to live. So, are you going to move out of the state to help save the fish, or are you going to ask your neighbor to stop using water so that there will be enough left for your use?

Green, but not stupid . wrote on Aug 20, 2007 8:16 AM:To Brown, no, I do mean the fish, the dinosaurs also lived for millions if not billions of years without any adverse effect on their enviornment, but their extinct, thats all part of nature, just as we are, so just let it happen!

Stop the Insanity!!! wrote on Aug 20, 2007 8:42 AM:News articles like this make we wonder if we don't all live in a fantasy world. Water is life. With dramatic cuts in water usage, a fish may be saved -- but thousands of acres of agriculture will die -- and with them, all of the insects, bees, birds, and smaller, wild mammals (rabbit, raccoon, coyote, etc.) that rely on open fields for survival. There's the human conceit -- the narrowness of our perspective, the ignorance of consequence, all trumped up as magnanimity.

Brown wrote on Aug 20, 2007 8:42 AM:We are the only animal that lives or has ever lived that threatens the continued inhabitability of the planet; we are the only animal whose extinction would be a boon to every other species of plant or animal.

I know! wrote on Aug 20, 2007 9:02 AM:Hey, I know! Let's actually start reducing the amount of buildings the builders have "overbuilt" and we'll start by having the government confiscate the homes of the people who think all development should stop...now that they have their homes. We can return those properties and developments back into raw land and let the weeds grow back. And where is that moratorium on having babies? Isn't that the real problem? After all, 80% of the population growth in California comes from within, it's all of us having kids. Every extremist group thinks the answers to our problems lie in promoting their extremist agendas. But that's the real problem. Promoting extremist positions only make things worse and create mountains of dissention among all of us. The smelt probably does have some significance in the ecological chain. So maybe we should find another way to suck the water out.

What? wrote on Aug 20, 2007 9:39 AM:Is it the pumps that are killing the fish or is it the pumps sucking their habitat dry? If it is the former why can't they screen the fish out at the pump inlet? If it is the second that is a much tougher problem. Another question. Why do we keep dumping grey water into the ocean? Why aren't we using it to water crops? I sometimes wonder if the enviromentalists will be happy with anything short of population controls. With fixed resourses and growing population what can you do?

What? wrote on Aug 20, 2007 9:40 AM:Alf, government control by restricting the number of building permits isn't very libertarian of you.

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Aug 20, 2007 10:14 AM:To Brown: Color me Green. Just as he or she says; Nature. Let them croak! Oops! That's frogs isn't it? Either way; there are two organizations in which I have no trust: EPA and NCIS. Both have their own agenda and both do more harm than good. Years ago a Developer was going to build on land they had owned for awhile. Tree hugging environmentalists held it up and sued to force the developer to "make" a pond for one "RAT" they saw in the area, so the "RAT" would have a place to drink water. They had a sheriff with a gun guard said "RAT" until the problem was resolved. Personally, I think that the tree hugging RAT lover should have taken the cottonpickin' disease carrying thing to his own home and cared for it. Eventually, the Development Company won out over the Rat; who, by the way, most likely found water in someone's yard or someone may just have sent said Rat on its way to Rat Heaven. If Environmentalists care so much about the Smelt, which sounds like it's too small to eat, then they should suck them outa there and take them home and throw them in their fish tanks. Humans 1- Smelt 0!

bvv wrote on Aug 20, 2007 10:36 AM:Why not raise the endangered smelt in a "fish zoo" & then release to a similar natural habitat -- similar to the way the Condor has been protected from extinction.

Donne wrote on Aug 20, 2007 10:45 AM:We are part of a complex and interconnected system; we don't know how this seemingly insignificant fish fits into the puzzle. Protecting the "delta smelt" may be part of self preservation. Who knows if it is missing what other life forms will die or experience a population explosion, what bacteria might flourish, what the chain reaction might be?

michael a. wrote on Aug 20, 2007 11:10 AM:CONSERVATIVES OPPOSE FREE MARKET SOLUTIONS AND HAVE ONLY CONTEMPT FOR GOD'S CREATIONS Most of our water "problems" can be solved without wiping out ecosystems or reducing SoCal's population. A HUGE amount of the state's water is wasted because it is priced too low. Those who waste the most (Agribusiness) have no financial incentive to conserve. And, most of our "conservative" political leaders have been bribed by Agribusiness to NEVER raise the price of water for farmers. Conservatives rant on and on about "free market" forces and "God". But it's just talk, they really don't believe in their own ideas. Gradually raising water prices would unleash creative free market forces that would conserve our water, enhance it's quality, and INCREASE it's reliability.But of course, conservatives ALWAYS oppose this option. The delta smelt is at the bottom of the food chain in the delta ecosystem. If the smelt goes extict so will the ability of the delta ecosystem to ever recover. I'm not religious, but I do know that the Bible says several times that God was PROUD of his creations. Unfortunately, most American conservatives are not. Their glee at the destruction of the God's creation (our natural inheritance) is disgusting.

Fishbait wrote on Aug 20, 2007 11:28 AM:Developers will build because someone will buy...the new proud homeowners will have a dream a mortgage and a water bill ...which a bank and city will be paid..and you will be asked to conserve water ...so the circle of profit can continue...remember the gold ring on the merri-go-ride.... we know someone wants to save the little fish.. but who will save you???

DRIP wrote on Aug 20, 2007 11:42 AM:To Donne: True. But do the environmentalists know? They should have proof for wanting to turn us into an old Mel Gibson Road Warrior film where humans fight each other for water.

Alf wrote on Aug 20, 2007 12:09 PM:"What?" at 9:40AM, You say - "Alf, government control by restricting the number of building permits isn't very libertarian of you." Neither is government control by restricting water, in this case which is the LESSER OF TWO EVILS? My point is that either we have a future shortage of water or we don't. If we do have an impending shortage, then it is arrogantly hypocritical and stupid to force cutbacks and simultaneously keep issuing permits. Grading uses water, compaction uses water, the mandatory dust control uses water and the new houses use water, so why, if we have a foreseeable shortage, are permits still being issued? Regards, Alf.

Algore wrote on Aug 20, 2007 12:14 PM:Just another example of how Global Warming threatens our lives. Time is now to do something!

Concerned-1 wrote on Aug 20, 2007 12:23 PM:Donne has a good point. However, the fact is the Delta Smelt is just one of the many problems with the Delta. Hind sight is 20-20. If we would have built the Peripheral Canal 20 years ago, we wouldn't be worrying about the Delta Smelt, Zebra mussels, levi stability and all the other problems inherent to the San Joaquin Delta since its inception in 1849. It's time to put some common sense into the Green Movement. So far the so-called environmentalists have done more harm to the environment than good.

Concerned-1 wrote on Aug 20, 2007 12:27 PM:Alf, I have to disagree with you on this one. A moritorium on construction would have ripple effects on the economy. Keep it a free market, but encourage smart designs. There's a lot we can do to better use our water.

Don in Carlsbad wrote on Aug 20, 2007 12:41 PM:Time to get that desalinization plant going ASAP.

Oceanside wrote on Aug 20, 2007 12:42 PM:The question is why are so many people for saving a bait fish, but are for abortion?

CA Expatriat wrote on Aug 20, 2007 12:47 PM:Smelt is fresh water sardines. Bait fish, in other words. If they're so enamored with Smelt, there's plenty in the lakes in the upper midwest and Canada.

anotherview wrote on Aug 20, 2007 12:56 PM:Please know, dear readers, that the agricultural industry in the state uses most of the available water supply, about 90 percent of it (maybe more). Households use about 5 percent. The rest goes to other uses, like industry and commercial. A simple analysis using high school math shows that 5 percent of 90 percent equals 4.5 percent of the whole 100 percent. Hence, forcing farmers to introduce efficient water use to reduce their use by only 5 percent would nearly match the present household water use. By means of political pressure, however, farmers resist changing their farm irrigation practices. In short, the Golden State has plenty of water available, but the distribution of this water does not happen rationally. Farmers grab most of the water. So any fair and sound solution to the water supply problem must require farmers to stop using so much water. Then others will have enough water.

Human wrote on Aug 20, 2007 1:11 PM:The dinosaurs are extinct and maybe the delta smelt will be, too. As far as I can see the smelt tries to live where the habitate will support it, whereas, we try to live wherever we want regardless the cost. We have met the enemy and he is us.

Human wrote on Aug 20, 2007 1:14 PM:Right, Don, the desal plant won't harm the ocean or kill any fish. Will we ever learn.....anything.

Environut wrote on Aug 20, 2007 1:27 PM:If one person dies because of lack of water, the public should join and file a class action suit against each group that joined this suit against, us, the state and feds. Yes don't forget these whack jobs are suing you and I, normal everyday citizens that need the water. Turn their tactics against them, sue and tie them up in court along with their funds. Enough is enough. You don't deprive people of water and the pursuit of happiness because you have more money and time then you know what to do with. These are the same that believe in Darwins theory of evolution. The problem is they don't let go of the past once something evolves.

Concerned-1 wrote on Aug 20, 2007 1:35 PM:Second Time Post: Donne has a good point. However, the fact is the Delta Smelt is just one of the many problems with the Delta. Hind sight is 20-20. If we would have built the Peripheral Canal 20 years ago, we wouldn't be worrying about the Delta Smelt, Zebra mussels, levi stability and all the other problems inherent to the San Joaquin Delta since its inception in 1849. It's time to put some common sense into the Green Movement. So far the so-called environmentalists have done more harm to the environment than good.

To Anotherview wrote on Aug 20, 2007 1:46 PM:Your absolutely correct. I worked on the Castaic Pumping station -- most of the water is used for agriculture. What we need to do is resort to the water wars of the 1930's. Where's Mulholland when you need him?

To Oceanside wrote on Aug 20, 2007 2:20 PM:Hey Oceanside, if the fetuses you are so concerned about develop to be gay men or lesbian women--will you fight for their civil rights?

Alf wrote on Aug 20, 2007 2:55 PM:"Concerned-1", I am perfectly well aware of what would happen if building and grading permits stopped being issued and of the ripple effect all the way up and down the ladder, I built my own house and know EVERY aspect and detail of EVERYTHING involved including having to make 202 stamped, addressed envelopes to make the required Coastal Commission notifications before we could get our permits. Again, either we have a problem and EVERYONE tackles it or no one does. This mule-fritters of "we will require cutbacks from current users SO THAT WE CAN HAVE EVEN MORE USERS" is completely insane. Regards, Alf.

Bucky wrote on Aug 20, 2007 3:00 PM:Environmentalists love every species except MAN. This is yet another proof that Environmentalism has gone NUTS !

common sense wrote on Aug 20, 2007 3:23 PM:Instead of dumping millions of gallons of waste water in the ocean clean it up and reuse it. The technology is already used in other places.

Patrick wrote on Aug 20, 2007 4:06 PM:Forget the poor fish... stupid humans are reproducing at alarming rate. We need state mandated birth control then we wouldn't have any of these issues!

Concerned-1 wrote on Aug 20, 2007 4:56 PM:To Alf; I understand your point and agree that it is a challenge that should be approached from all sides. Water has always been one of my major concerns. Now, that all said, I just don't believe in cutting back on an industry that affects our economy like construction / real estate. Hey, someone has to buy those pictures of yours; and in the scheme of things your customers might be affected. My two cents.

Jack wrote on Aug 20, 2007 5:02 PM:Reminds me of the Red Queen vs Alice!NCT has it all upside down. How about "Banks pump threatenes endangered Delta Smelt!"

grower wrote on Aug 20, 2007 6:23 PM:"Agribusiness" may use a lot of water, but the waste elsewhere. Every Californian appears to feel entitled to a lovely, lush green lawn. I wasn't raised here, so I know that a green lawn is not a God-given right when water is in short supply. As to raising the price of water, just how much do you want to pay for an orange or an avocado?

To Patrick wrote on Aug 20, 2007 7:15 PM:You need to study history. State mandated population control has already been tried. Have you heard of the Holocaust? How about the Pol Pot regime? What about the "ethnic cleansing" in Rwanda and the former Yugoslavia? Did you know that Amnesty International reports that China continues to force women to have abortions in order to enforce its one child policy? History teaches us that human rights abuses are always initiated by state mandated action. Why do you think our government would be any different?

Suggestions wrote on Aug 20, 2007 7:55 PM:There are several alternative solutions to this problem. First, cut off all water to the homes of environmentalists. Second, eat the smelt into extinction so they don’t die in the pumps. Third, put the environmentalists through the pumps that are killing the smelt. Lastly, revise the Environmental Protection Act to include humans.

Vista Resident wrote on Aug 21, 2007 12:21 AM:US citizens have achieved zero population growth with much sacrifice. All population growth now comes from immigration. Texas is planning for a doubling in population in the next 25 years or so. The people of the US don't want their sacrifices to be spit upon. Citizens still have the power to determine whether rampant population growth via immigration will be our future. We are the power - - as long as our vote is counted as cast rather than manipulated in a voting machine.

I wrote on Aug 21, 2007 10:41 AM:I don't understand why everyone thinks it's either kill the fish or kill agriculture and water starve the people. There are solutions that could still serve everyone. We've completely changed a wetland ecosystem to a delta, in the first place, to grow crops and re-allocate water. To rape the land and forget the fish isn't a real solution. The food web concept has been around for a long time...some of you might want to look into it. And by the way... I moved into a desert climate (much of so cal) and have a really lush green lawn, but for some reason I have water issues...DUHHH!!!

Patrick wrote on Aug 22, 2007 1:28 PM:Less humans - better planet. Start taking responsibility!

RobertM wrote on Aug 25, 2007 1:23 PM:I see a lot of people denouncing agribusiness as an evil. Don't you realize agribusiness means the food that you eat? California provides a huge portion of the food for not only the US but a large part of the world. Denying water to farms in California would do a lot more damage than sucking fish into pumps.

Afghani Jed wrote on Oct 22, 2007 5:50 PM:The true answer to the question is that nine of ten humans need to go away.

Franklin wrote on Mar 2, 2008 2:43 PM:Those damn endangered fish as soon as they get on the list, they go messing up everybody's lives, can't trust them, you see it in the eyes.