Chris wrote on Aug 23, 2007 8:27 PM:Just more damn excuses to justify murder by our troops. Where is all of this compasion for the dead Iraqis and their family(if any are left) and friends? I am sick of the U.S. military and their lies and coverups.

DH wrote on Aug 23, 2007 9:04 PM:Chris, why don't you move to Cuba?

3533SGT wrote on Aug 23, 2007 9:26 PM:It is good to see that this Marine cleared. For Chris, it is the training all the way. I don't know the exact circumstances, but I myself have been in that situation, and that is how it is. When you stack up outside the door, and get ready to make entry, your heart is beating so fast. The next thing you know, It's all over.

John1 to Chris wrote on Aug 23, 2007 9:34 PM:What is an excuse in Lt Col Ware's recommendation? Does compassion equate to instant conviction, even if the evidence proves otherwise? Do you want justice done or a Soviet style sham trial, with foregone conclusion?

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Aug 23, 2007 9:55 PM:Finally! Someone with the intelligence to see through the NCIS PCBS. None of these guys are murderers. They're Marines trying to survive. Our Hamdania Marines are not murderers either. President Bush said, "If you're not for us, you're against us." The enemy discredits our troops and divides us. They've made murderers of decent, honorable Marines; with the help of NCIS, whose Whose track record of persecution is never ending. Just whose side are they on? It's time to put a stop to ruining the lives of good decent Marines who want nothing more than to serve this country. We owe them better than sacrificing them to the enemy without, and within.

Mike wrote on Aug 23, 2007 10:13 PM:I am so glad that someone understand the military life in war. I applaud your recommendations to drop all charges against the Marines. No Marines should be charge on any shooting in the war zone. LtCol Ware, you are my idol and a real American, you and the Marine Corps should be proud of your service. I, too have been there and done that. All these people complaint you recommndation should pick up there gears and go fight their damm war. Unfortunately, these people have no clue what war is all about. Congrat.

Chris to the above bloggers wrote on Aug 24, 2007 12:45 AM:I think that 3533SGT represents all you other bloggersbut at least he admits that he doesn't know the exact circumstances and quite frankly I don't think he cares. The rest of you are of the same ilk and I know that if it was the people in the Iraqi military doing the same thing all of you would come out here and show your outrage. I guess that breaking into a home and raping a fouteen year old girl and killing her parents (even though this case is different) is fine with you because you have declaired that all Marines should not be tried for killing Iraqis. God bless America. I think I am going to be sick.

Daniel to Chris wrote on Aug 24, 2007 3:41 AM:Chris, if you don't know the difference between murder and war, you must be a liberal. God help you.

Flo (as in Go with the----) wrote on Aug 24, 2007 4:45 AM:If Sadaam Hussein had Ware and Mattis on his side he would still be alive today. Afterall he honestly thought the Kurds were a threat, and responded as any successful and well trained dictator would in similar circumstance. Women and children died--but "ce la guerre".

Anya wrote on Aug 24, 2007 6:04 AM:If we are training our military to shoot before they look, there is something very wrong. I seriously doubt that this is the training in any way, just another Marine let off the hook. War is never a justification for murding children in their beds. I'm sure this is going to work wonders for our already deplorable standing in international eyes. Don't forget that the next President can, and likely WILL rejoin the international courts, then hopefully all these war crimes we turn a blind eye to will be brought to light, and those responsible will be held accountable. I guess the people who ran the gas chambers in concentration camps durring WWII shouldn't be considered to blame for what they did, after all, according to the logic I see here, since they were only doing as they were trained to, they did nothing wrong.

Justice for all wrote on Aug 24, 2007 6:17 AM:Those who have committed murder will have to live with their conscience for the rest of their lives, whether they are convicted or not.

Citizen wrote on Aug 24, 2007 7:03 AM:Prosecutors prosecute, and defenders defend. The judges are impartial and usually do the right thing. I do think this is very different from Hamdania, not least because it was in middle of a firefight where time for reflection etc. are hard to come by. But this idea the NCIS is always the bad guy is ridiculous. They prosecuted a Marine recently in North Carolina for killing two other Marines. Confessions were part of the evidence. Should that case be thrown out? Should all the child molesting Marines in Leavenworth be released because they too were prosecuted by NCIS? I don't think so. Prosecutors and investigators quite naturally are aggressive and concerned with convictions; they can't prosecute and also be expected to be completley impartial. That's why we have an adversary system. It seems to confuse a lot of people here, but it's set up that way so the two sides compete, want to win, and in that conflict the truth is supposed to emerge. But law enforcements job is to prosecute law breakers; there is such a thing as a law of war. Judges and Commanding Generals, not the NCIS or the JAG, should decide when to extend mercy based on the totality of the circumstances. Otherwise law-breaking is law-breaking whether in Iraq or anywhere else.

Darryl wrote on Aug 24, 2007 7:10 AM:The truth is finally coming out in the Haditha battle. Few know or want to find out that 5 Marine platoons from 3/1 Kilo Company were engaged within a block of the Haditha IED site. Over 60 Marines were in a firefight that 19 Nov 2005. 1 KIA and over 12 WIA Marines. The deaths of the women and children was tragic but the enemy(insurgents) chose to fight among civilians. God Bless Our Haditha Marines

Period wrote on Aug 24, 2007 7:11 AM:It is amazing. Liberals would like to see this Marine fried for killing in a war, but they have no problem with pedophiles walking the streets. Must be some unhappy liberals today, but don’t worry, I am sure you will be able to rejoice in the death of some heroes in the days to come.

Drop the Charges Against All wrote on Aug 24, 2007 7:12 AM:We are in a War. The real enemy is the Fascist Muslims. Please stop persecuting our heroes.

Sgt 0311 wrote on Aug 24, 2007 7:48 AM:Unless you have been "there" you have no right to judge them, let alone stand among them. Standing outside a doorway getting ready to enter in combat is like facing the Grim Reaper. Your life or death is based on a decision make within tenths of seconds. Don't spend years deciding what a Marine should have done while he's doing what you are too afraid to do.

Not amused wrote on Aug 24, 2007 8:02 AM:Good thing we had more public consistent support in WW 2 or we would all be living in very different world right now. Japan attacked the US and we responded in unity against the aggressors and prevailed. Now we get attacked by unified terrorists, and we have people wetting their pants every time the news comes out with a potential mistake, or something some can make into a political issue. Sadly, I do not think this war will ever end. It will either be fought over there, or over here. The terrorists are in for the long haul. Are we?

Goatskull wrote on Aug 24, 2007 8:04 AM:I am glad that these Marines will hopefully get out of this situation but I disagree with AW4Hamdania

Goatskull wrote on Aug 24, 2007 8:06 AM:I am glad that these Marines will hopefully get out of this situation but I disagree with AW4 about Hamdania. This situation is a matter of not knowing what's behind that door but Hamdania is nothing but murder.

a Liberal to Period wrote on Aug 24, 2007 8:11 AM:Yeah I just love pedophiles. How did you know?

Daniel to Citizen wrote on Aug 24, 2007 8:17 AM:The point you're missing regarding the NCIS is that they are the ones to collect the evidence and take witness statements, i.e, INVESTIGATE. Since it is clear they are not doing this well, the adversarial aspect (prosecutor v defendant) is inadequate at it's very foundation. I especially 'like' the one agent's (purported) testimony that they didn't want to interview the family members right after the Haditha incident because they had just seen their family member 'slaughtered.' If accurate, this statement proves NCIS bias against these Marines from the start, as well as an emotional investment rather than objective, professional investigation. I wouldn't give 2 cents for any testimony or evidence from NCIS and there doesn't seem to be any effort underway to rectify the situation. Though I'm sure there are excellent agents in the NCIS, it's likely they're trying to transfer to the FBI or other professional agency. Our military deserves better, and better reporting. Still not sure why "media" is given access to the proceedings via the Media Center but the public isn't. The public lost confidence in the "filter" a long time ago and know we will have to wait until this is all over to get real information.

to Anya wrote on Aug 24, 2007 8:23 AM:Well you may not like hearing this but if I were in that situation where I don't know whats behind that door then yeah I will shoot before looking whether or not it results in innocent women or children being killed. And BTW I am totally against this war and I am a liberal but I care more about our troops being sent out there and anyone else. Hamdania is a different situation because 8 guys when into a home and kidnapped, blindfolded and THEN all took shots at him.

Citizen wrote on Aug 24, 2007 8:40 AM:I would ask the super-duper patriots: when should war crimes ever be prosecuted? And, depending on that answer, when should other nations prosecute war criminals when the victims are Americans? For instance, should Germany have prosecuted Joseph Pieper for massacring US Soldiers at Malmedy? Or should they have said, "well, we're at war and all bets are off." And, if the situation were reversed, should we have prosecuted a similar massacre of prisoners who had been disarmed, corralled, and no longer were technically combatants?

Go Figure wrote on Aug 24, 2007 9:14 AM:I agree with citizen that Haditha and Hamdania are TWO very different situations.

Thank you Marines wrote on Aug 24, 2007 9:42 AM:Thank you for choosing to serve our country and not pursuing selfish interests. Thank you for doing a job that it exhausting, dangerous and nearly payless. Thank you for giving me hope that there are real Americans who still believe that freedom is worth the sacrafice. I am sorry that things have become so twisted in this generation and that many don't understand that war is not an easily negotiable business deal, nor is it something that can be won with attorneys breathing down your back. Rather it is about protecting our country and bringing home your brothers, alive. Thank you for doing your job. God bless the USMC.

Bush's War wrote on Aug 24, 2007 9:47 AM:This military is out of control. I,m tried of hearing how great they are. They are now part of the problem.

o2cool1 wrote on Aug 24, 2007 10:04 AM:Well it's about time someone came to their senses.I may be a liberal (with a small l) but I support our troops 100%.

SemperFudge wrote on Aug 24, 2007 10:06 AM:So, why don't we just go ahead and give clemency to Osama Bin Laden for 9/11? Nothing's been proven in a court of law to show he was behind the murder of 3,000 people. He had declared war on America 10 years earlier, so from his point of view he was in the midst of a war, and "these things happen" in war. Whether you've murdered 3,000 adults or three children, a charge of murder is a charge of murder; unless you're in the middle of a war evidently.

Rudy wrote on Aug 24, 2007 10:23 AM:I'm glad that the charges were dropped against one of our "warriors"! We need to support them and stand behind them! I know they're coming back with mental problems because of being forced to kill for our freedom. I've got one relative with PTSD from his times in Iraq. He feels bad because he took human lives there.I sympathize with the young men that will live with they're internal hell for the rest of their lives!

Proud Commie wrote on Aug 24, 2007 10:51 AM:I love terrorism.

Citizen to Daniel wrote on Aug 24, 2007 11:51 AM:How is the situation you describe any different than most police departments in the US? Talk to any criminal defense attorney: cops fudge, make up their minds too quick, disregard procedure, lose evidence, disbelieve witnesses and believe others, and generally, after a point, seek to prosecute particular people for the crimes in question. The Hamdania point about the families is only offensive if we're talking post-NCIS interviews with the Marines, at which point the evidence of guilt was pretty substantial. The whole point of cross examination and an adversary system is to expose these kinds of shenanigans; plus, nothing stops any of these guys from filing a Bivens action seeking money damages from the NCIS agents (and ultimately the federal government) if their civil rights were truly hamed. But as for prosecutorial and investigative discretion, that's the same issue and problem for every single criminal defendant in America.

o2cool1 wrote on Aug 24, 2007 12:14 PM:SemperFudge that's about the dumbest thing I've heard coming from someone other than George Bush. I suppose you're going to want murder charges brought against the pilot that dropped a bomb on 3 British soldiers in Afhanistan today, right? What a bone head.

Some Priorities wrote on Aug 24, 2007 1:14 PM:Hamdania Marines get time served, general discharges, one gets (technically) to stay in, and none but Hutchins serve additional jail time. From today's news, "A sergeant based at Camp Butler, Okinawa, was found guilty Aug. 23 of improperly touching four Marines at an enlisted club, a Marine spokesman confirmed. Sgt. Tony Agosto, 24, with 3rd Marine Logistics Group, was reduced to private, given a bad-conduct discharge and will spend 45 days in the brig, said 1st Lt. Brian Block, a III Marine Expeditionary Force spokesman. The four male Marines, who were lance corporals at the time of the March 1 incident, testified during the trial that Agosto approached them at the club, placing his hand on their thighs and making homosexual advances throughout the evening, Block said." What a screwy sense of priorities that guys convicted of conspiracy and felonies and kidnapping get time served and this guy, admittedly a weirdo, gets 45 days and a Bad Conduct Discharge. The UCMJ needs sentencing guidelines just like the feds to stop these disparate sentences all over the map.

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Aug 24, 2007 1:18 PM:To Citizen: THANK YOU! You are correct in your comment at 7:03AM. I want to quote you because I am so impressed with it. Quote: "JUDGES AND COMMANDING GENERALS, not the NCIS or the JAG, SHOULD DECIDE WHEN TO EXTEND MERCY BASED ON THE TOTALITY OF THE CIRCUMSTANCES." That was the most intelligent and truthful statement and I'm very impressed by it. I'm sure that General Mattis will consider the TOTALITY of circumstances when he makes his decisions.

Chris wrote on Aug 24, 2007 1:55 PM:I am sick of the lies comming from these supporters of the ... actions of some of our Marines. First of all they are not doing anything to protect our country. Iraq had nothing to do with anything but that doesn't matter so we just keep repeating the lie. As far as not knowing what is behind the door the simple solution is to surround the house and call the people out but you supporters don't really care about that. All you care about is giving our troops carte blanche in Iraq and there is no concern about the Iraqis (remember the ones we were freeing and giving democracy to). The excuse that this marine's instinct took over and he didn't realize he was shooting women and children is bunk but of course we can just blame it on his training. As I said he should not have been in the room in the first place. There were no shots comming from the house and again the sensable thing to do is surround the house and call the people out. ... If this action was above borard why did they lie and tell their supperiors that the people were killed by the IED. But the people out here that defend our troops don't care about right or wrong. This war has taught me that many of the American people are no different than the ones they have been criticizing for committing attrocities. I believe that the vast majority of American people have no scruples and those that do are called Liberals, America haters, terrorist supporters, appeasers and many other names that come to mind to these people who wrap themselves in the flag in order to hide their true motives.

Retired Marine to Chris wrote on Aug 24, 2007 2:01 PM:When You're Man Enough to stand in these Warrior's Shoes, You will Understand these are NOT Excuses, but the Reality of the Fog of War. Now, thank EVERY Serviceman and Servicewoman for their Service and Your Freedoms.

To the Motor Transport and Infantry Sergeants above... wrote on Aug 24, 2007 2:06 PM:Don't let the Chris and His Like get to You. They have not been there. You have. It's a different perspectus. Retired Marine

Col. Jessep: wrote on Aug 24, 2007 2:20 PM:Very Well Said: "Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Whose gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinburg? I have a greater responsibility than you could possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago, and you curse the marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to."

Chris to Retired Marine wrote on Aug 24, 2007 2:28 PM:I have put this challenge out before but have had no takers. What war did our military fight that had anything to do with my freedom?

Breathless wrote on Aug 24, 2007 2:38 PM:At 1:18PM she does it again; she sets herself up as the final arbitrator of what is truthful and correct. Unless that was written by the imposter--one never knows.

John1 to Chris wrote on Aug 24, 2007 2:50 PM:Are you drunk? Your mixing of references seems to indicate so.

SemperFudge wrote on Aug 24, 2007 2:51 PM:these "retired marines" make excuses for their kind in order to make themselves feel better for things they've witnessed or been a part of that do not sit right with their inner selves. I grew up in and around Camp Pendleton; I know and have heard your stories.

John1 to Some Priorities wrote on Aug 24, 2007 2:52 PM:Actually more than one will probably stay in. And you realize of course, all the Hamdania Marines spent 14 MONTHS in confinement, right?

to Chris wrote on Aug 24, 2007 3:22 PM:If I were in that situation I would shoot first. You may be sick of that fact but oh well for you.

Sgt 0311 wrote on Aug 24, 2007 3:25 PM:Chris,( about your 1:55pm comment) Those guys had just taken a hit from an IED and were in a hostile situation. Sometimes you can't stand in a street and call people out. Do you think we want to clear houses? It's dangerous. You have an 80% casualty probability. We grunts know that. Can you imagine what it feels like knowing that and still going in. The key is to use speed and violence of action to catch the enemy off balance and force him to move or fight. You wouldn't know that. FYI.....don't believe everything you hear in the news. Its a STORY for ratings. Its not meant to deliver fact. If you want to change things so bad, I can help you find a recruiters office.

John1 Sgt 0311 wrote on Aug 24, 2007 4:27 PM:Oorah Sgt. I detect a grain or two of salt on your utilities!

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Aug 24, 2007 4:46 PM:To Chris: If you're so "sick" of Americans who believe in our Marines and you care more about insurgents and Iraqis who support and protect insurgents more than your own countrymen, then go to Iraq and do something constructive to help those innocent(?)people in that town. IF those innocent(?)people start shooting at you, make sure you don't enter their homes. Stand outside and call them out. IF they come out what are you going to do? If a CNN journalist, who had a sit-down with Bin-Laden years ago, couldn't impress the DAD of JIHAD, just what affect do you think you'll have on his followers? Did you know that when the journalist put his hand out to shake Bin-Laden's that Bin-Laden looked him in the eye and told him that if he ever saw him again he would kill him? The leader of Jihad "used" CNN for his purpose and that purpose was served. For you to say there were no shots coming from the house is one of the most ignorant remarks you could have made. Even the media reported it. As for lying; that would be the media's haste to report before getting their facts straight. Sgt. Wuterich reported that 24 had been killed--15 civilians by the IED blast and ensuing fire, and that 8 of the dead were believed to be the enemy. The report concluded (quote): "The follow-on small arms fire between insurgents and coalition forces contributed to the civilian deaths". The Division Public Affairs Officer left that sentence out. The accusation of deception was because NCIS said that the last sentence was too brief and didn't accurately reflect the magnitude of the number of civilian deaths. If you don't agree with the Marine's practice of "house-clearing"; Tough! They do it to protect themselves. If you want to blame someone try Safa Younis, who knew of the attack and did nothing! Chris; try something new to you...Wait until you've heard the whole story before you go around accusing United States Marines of murder.

Chris to everybody wrote on Aug 25, 2007 12:34 PM:There was an interview by 60 minutes of a Marine (Frank Wuterich) who was interviewed by Scott Pelley. To find it I had to go to the New York times. After I got the page I put in these names and they brought up another page that said to search for those names on the web. I clicked on to that and then clicked on number five on that page and it brought up the entire transcript wich consisted of six pages. I first put their names on the web without going to the N.Y.T. and all I got was junk just trashing Scott Pelley. It is my oppinion that this Marine was lieing because other Marines countradicted parts of his story. When I say to surround the house I don't mean to stand out in the open but when you just kick in the door and enter the house you are just asking for ether getting shot or killing innocent civilians. There are many people who have guns in their homes especially there and what would you do if someone kicked in your door especially in the middle of the night when it is dark. Yes my sympathies are with the Iraqis because it is their country we invaded and killed thousands of them before any Marines set foot on their soil. I like how AW4 and the rest of you refer to Iraqis as terrorist or insurgents. Remember many Iraqis have been killed by these insurgents. Yes there are innocent Iraqis that support the insurgets but once again we invaded their country and killed or caused to be killed many Iraqis and now their life is one of despiration thanks to our invasion. But I like how sanctamonious some of the people out here are when they condem the Iraqis for hating us. I do not owe alegence to our troops just because they are Americans. I stand for right and wrong but as I have said before it is not what someone does but who does it for many of you.

John1 to Chris wrote on Aug 25, 2007 3:59 PM:Oh, Chris- Scott Pelley's interview is so well known! Perhaps it is news to you, but to no one else even moderately interested in the Haditha cases! Your recitation is borne of ignorance and a video game player's knowledge of combat. HALO 3 and SOCOM don't describe realistic combat. You would argue as if the villagers in Iraq outside of some of the major cities ever lived beyond the technology of dumping their sewage from a medieval middens into the Euphrates! You need to do more homework. I recommend either enlisting or just getting out and going to Iraq to join your fellow insurgent idealists such as Sean Penn. As to killing "thousands before any Marine set foot..." well, duh- we killed thousands of their troops- don't make it what it wasn't. 3/1 Kilo was under fire and they responded to an attack which, I remind you, was deadly, luck preserving all but one brave Marine. I wish you would hit the road, Chris. If you are sympathetic to insurgents, then you do not belong in the US and you are a BAD CITIZEN. But, I have to say, it's your right to be such. That makes you no less despicable. Did you ever see the picture of Japanese citizens walking across a painted US flag? In my mind, Chris, I see you doing the same.

Chris to John 1 wrote on Aug 25, 2007 9:09 PM:where is the intelegent dialoge. Oh, I forgot that name calling is the only response I can expect from you Bush supporters. So we only killed their troops. Tell that to Robert Fisk who was there when the bombs fell. He wrote a book but I know that reading is not what you Bush supporters do. You have to get your information from your gurus like Rush Limbaugh who tells you to only listen to him because he is the only athority to give you the right information.

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Aug 25, 2007 9:18 PM:To Chris: Right and Wrong? Beheaders vs. Americans? Iraqis vs. Americans? You've made your choice.

To Chris wrote on Aug 25, 2007 9:28 PM:I don't know how the heck you do your internet searches - but I just went to Google, typed in 60 Minutes interview with Frank Wuterich and there it was, #2 spot, all of it, plus video. Google + right combination of words - maybe you chose "leading" words....nah, couldn't be. (sarcasm) Not Chris. By the way, 60 Minutes claim to fame started as Ambush Journalism and they're still at it. I don't know why Wuterich decided to the interview, but he did well and held his own, knowing that the editors cut, delete, conveniently shorten or leave out certain things that they choose, and of course include what they want.

To Chris wrote on Aug 25, 2007 9:31 PM:Google Janet Reno and Waco about surrounding a house and calling people out.

Harry wrote on Aug 26, 2007 6:23 AM: Chris, they will vilify you and get sanctimonious and outraged. They will spout off and quote erroneous factoids or lead you down side tracks; they will shriek as if the world would come to an end if they stopped; they will do anything to keep the plain truth at bay. No matter what they say or do, they can’t change the basic fact that the United States is the aggressor in Iraq; that there was no justification for this war and that hundreds of thousands of Iraqis have died, and suffered unspeakable pain and loss because of our invasion, destruction and occupation of their country. There is no honor or lofty idealism here—it is nasty and dirty— and no matter what the gang at the gate say, it must come to an end.

To Chris/Harry wrote on Aug 26, 2007 8:14 AM:Reading Comprehension 101 - you are the ones who sidetrack. These stories are about Haditha - you go off on tangents not connected to these cases, bring politics and generalizations into them. If you can dish it out, learn to take it.

John1 to Chris wrote on Aug 26, 2007 8:25 AM:Chris, I am responding to YOUR words (as misspelled as they are). It is YOU who express support of insurgency. It is YOU who write in ignorance in shameful prose about what you have OBVIOUSLY not researched, even to support your own arguments. Intelligent dialogue requires homework, son. And you haven't done yours.

John1 to Harry wrote on Aug 26, 2007 8:27 AM:Harry, while at times we fervently disagree with one another, at least I can say is you come to your arguments with some "meat". Chris needs to do his homework, and say carefully his points, vs. the weakly posed and obviously ill-thought out pablum he is now producing.

Huh?! wrote on Aug 26, 2007 11:24 AM:I saw it written some where: why do we have to kill people that kill people to show that killing people is wrong? I'm not going to prentend to be an all-knowing expert but under no circumstances is it ok to kill people and those service men who raped and murdered that girl and her family should be punished. That is not what they are there for, that is not "American" (what ever that is).

Chris to to Chris and John 1 wrote on Aug 26, 2007 11:44 AM:First of all I talked about the transcript concerning a Marine who had lot to do with Haditha, so where does to Chris get off with his rubbish about Reading comprehension. But to Chris just like John has nothing of substance to say. And John the most absured thing that you have ever said is when you said that we only killed members of the military and don't worry about my spelling at least I have brought up specific points as compared to your blogs that are only composed of smoke and mirrors and your last blogs are no different. Just more name calling and obfuscation.

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Aug 26, 2007 2:14 PM:All that's missing is the pulpit. Harry has spoken; Quote: "It must come to an end". Oh Puhleeze! Villification, sanctimonious, outraged, spout erroneous (factoids?). "They will shriek as if the world would come to an end if they stopped". If Harry is hearing shrieking, he might want to try toning it down a bit. "Factoid" is that his concern seems to be for those of a foreign country, for those he can't even prove whether Iraqi, Iranian, Syrian; whether friendly or insurgent. Incessant whining and shrieking for who? Identify them! Prove whether they be friendly or insurgent. Until you do, don't shriek at me or any of us for caring more about the pain suffered by OUR own! To Harry, Americans who care about Americans first are referred to as "They". We choose to refer to the ENEMY as "They".

Chris to AW4 wrote on Aug 26, 2007 8:18 PM:Let's see if I got this right. We go into a country that has done nothing to us or threatened us and destroy it and now we have the right to say they are the ememy. Iran in 1979 got rid of our puppet who was a corrupt and brutal tyrant. The new leaders wanted to do business with us but because they wouldn't bow down to us we declared them the enemy. What gives us the right to just declare someone the enemy who has done nothing to us but just want to go about their business without interference from us. So now we invade another country and some of the citizens fight back and they are declared the enemy. I want to see if AW4 can justify this without obfuscating the issue.

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Aug 26, 2007 10:41 PM:Chris; the only "obfuscating" is in your mind. Please go obfuscate someone else's day.

Chris to AW4 wrote on Aug 27, 2007 7:59 AM:I find it so frustrating that people like you will not check out some of the things I have been saying and are willing to support sending our young people off to die and kill untold millions of people over the years because our government says that those people are our enemies when in fact it is only to satiate their own vanity or to plunder those people for the sake of corporate profits. Instead of treating my like the enemy why don't you find out how our leaders have been treating us like fools since the founding of this country.

Brad wrote on Aug 27, 2007 9:14 AM:Reading some of the comments is like going to a roller derby--no standards of acceptable behavior and no holds barred.

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Aug 27, 2007 1:27 PM:Chris; I'm giving it another go for one reason. I don't think you realize that "many" of us, who you keep referring to as flag-wavers, fully understand what our leaders have done over the years. I've told you before I'm not a happy camper. The difference is that you seem awfully bitter. Don't be insulted by that because it is not meant that way. I know that the longer one lives, the more heartache, the more injustice one sees; the less patience one has. But, regardless of the why's and wherefor's, this is OUR country and these Marines and all of our troops are OURS. I understand the screw-ups of the government but, Chris, don't you know that the troops and their families suffer and pay the price for those screw-ups? I understand your compassion for the Iraqi people. I'll tell you when I lost that compassion you have. In 1991, when I watched on television these people being tortured and killed, I cried. I was devastated. I was ignorant of it until then. I remember telling my husband that somebody has to do something to help them. We did. Now here we are years later and nothing has changed. We go again. We get Saddam and free the Iraqi people, for a short time, and here come the insurgents from all over the Middle East to terrorize and take over their towns. When I saw Iraqis (not all of course) protecting insurgents, for whatever reason, causing harm to our troops, my compassion changed from that for a country to that for individual Iraqis who prove they mean no harm to our troops. The rest are no better than the enemy. OUR people are my priority. Your compassion seems to be for the Iraqis and there seems to be so little for our own. You and I can't solve the world's problems or the problems of the Middle East, and the scary thing is that our politicians could care less because they're going to protect their power structure and their own personal interests. All the while, folks like you and I blog ourselves silly and accomplish nothing. If you find a way to get all of our leaders to work together for the good of the people, this country, and whoever else on the globe, let me know. They may not blog but theyre going to "bicker" us all into an early grave if they don't get their act together. Take care Chris.

Chris wrote on Aug 27, 2007 8:07 PM:I am still waiting for one of these Marines, who keep repeating the lie that it is because of them that I have my freedom, to tell me which war they faught to protect my freedom. Well, let's have it.

Harry wrote on Aug 28, 2007 12:35 AM:To Chris: WWII; the freedom for all generations to come. You are free to pledge allegiance to our flag today. You're Welcome!

John1 to Chris wrote on Aug 28, 2007 7:50 AM:I think Harry has said it all.

Go Figure wrote on Aug 28, 2007 8:14 AM:To all bloggers lets get back the the real issues.

Ghost wrote on Aug 29, 2007 9:14 AM:Chris, your freedom is being fought for. Freedom from fear. When we determined that Saddam most likely wasn't capable of turning Uranium 238 into weapons grade 235,Donald Rumsfield stated a very true point. He said that if Saddam didn't have U-235 he would have gotten it. You also probably didn't know that US forces found several sites where centrifuges that spin U-238 into U-235 (weapon grade uranium..it takes 7 yrs and was probably being made prior to our arrival) were most likely held. Saddam loyalists had gutted all these installations in order to hide what was really there. The terrorists are now using our media as a weapon. A great nation like ours can only fall from within. We can only destroy ourselves. If your buying into what you read and hear then your casualty. I was in Iraq Chris. I was there first hand and I had a birdseye view of the situation. Most of what you read and hear is only a story. I suggest you go find the truth in person. Lastly, about your 8/27 8;07PM comment, I cringed when I read it. People gave their lives just by agreeing to go and averting a draft and forcing poeple like you from having to go. What do you consider protecting YOUR freedom? If another nation invades YOUR back yard and tries to hurt YOU in particular. I guarantee YOU'LL wish a Marine was there.