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El Grupo making a name for itself
By: EDWARD SIFUENTES - North County Times | ∞
NORTH COUNTY -- A year after a Latino rights coalition called El Grupo resurfaced, its members say it has had an eventful new start with a string of successes --- and a long list of problems left to tackle.
The group announced its return last August after what members called a series of setbacks for the Latino and immigrant community in North County.
Escondido was considering a proposal to ban landlords from renting to illegal immigrants in Escondido.
Several Latino suspects had been shot by sheriff's deputies in Vista.
And council members in the same city were considering a day-labor law that activists said would punish workers.
"I wish that El Grupo was unnecessary," said Bill Flores, the group's spokesman. "When there is no need for the group, that's when we'll call ourselves successful. But the formation was in response to these major issues."
The group is a coalition of representatives from various civil and Latino rights organizations that takes political stands on social and legal concerns in minority communities. It first came together in 1998 under the leadership of late San Marcos Councilman Vince Andrade.
The group started as a networking opportunity for organizations, but has now taken a more activist role, Flores said.
About a dozen organizations make up El Grupo, including the California Rural Legal Assistance Foundation, the American Civil Liberties Union of San Diego and Imperial Counties, the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People in North County and the Chicano Federation of San Diego County.
Since its return, the coalition's members have been the driving force behind a lawsuit that resulted in some changes to the Vista day labor law, a successful legal challenge of the Escondido rental ordinance and a state Attorney General review of the shootings in Vista.
The group also raised a $10,000 reward for information leading to the arrest of people responsible for vandalizing a migrant camp near Rancho Penasquitos in January. No one has been charged in the incident.
El Grupo reborn in difficult times
Flores, a retired San Diego County assistant sheriff and a founding member of El Grupo, said the ordinances, the vandalism case and rampant anti-illegal immigration rallies in North County are rooted in fear about the region's changing demographics. Those demographics and the xenophobia they bring have been exploited by politicians, he said.
In the 1970s, "a guy with the mentality of an Archie Bunker was laughed at, now they are sitting in city councils," Flores said.
One Escondido City Council member who has been critical of El Grupo said the group does not deserve much credit and does not speak for the entire Latino community.
"If they feel they accomplished something, that's fine, but it wasn't them," said city Councilman Ed Gallo, about the blocking of the council's rental ordinance. "It was the federal judge."
Gallo, one of three council members who supported the Escondido rental ordinance, has said the ordinance was needed to alleviate housing overcrowding as a result of illegal immigration, which, he said, has led to a decline in the quality of life in the city.
Gallo said he heard from some in the Latino community who disagree with Flores and El Grupo.
"I don't think that groups such as this represent all the Latino community," he said.
Prominent Latinos say the group may not speak for everyone, but it provides an important voice for those whose opinion is not always heard, such as new immigrants.
"They've been effective at educating the public," said Robert Rivas, who founded an organization aimed at reducing dropout rates among Latino boys in North County. He is not a member of the group. "I think they've done an incredible job at crystallizing the issue. It's provided a needed voice for those without a voice."
New group holds private meetings
Current and former El Grupo members said the group struggled in the past to find its own voice.
After Andrade's death in 1999, the group was responsible for various candidate forums and networking meetings that provided a platform for Latino candidates seeking local and state offices. But political divisions and differing views on the group's mission, structure and membership sent the group into hibernation in 2002.
The new group is different, Flores said.
And it's not just in the name, which was shortened from El Grupo Sin Nombre, meaning "the group without a name," to El Grupo, which simply means "the group."
Meetings were once held at restaurants and open to the public. Anyone who attended had a say in the group's mission. While some said they liked the open exchange of ideas, others said public meetings made the group unwieldy and ineffective.
Flores said the group needed to change to meet new challenges.
"The old El Grupo was more of a networking and information exchange group," he said. "For a time, that's exactly what we needed, but now the issues are so important, with long-term implications, that we forego the social part of it."
Under the new structure, membership is restricted to representatives of organizations. Meetings are unannounced to all but members and are generally not open to the public. Most communications among members occur by phone or e-mail, Flores said.
Flores, who is retired, serves as a coordinator and spokesman for the group, but there is no leader, he said.
The streamlined group works well, said Joe Cordero, past chairman of the Chicano Federation and who served as president of El Grupo in its previous incarnation. Cordero, who helped restart the group, said the new structure works because it's democratic and the group is open to change.
One of the group's most important roles has been as an advocacy organization, said Kevin Keenan, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union of San Diego and Imperial Counties, which sued Vista and Escondido over its day-labor and rental ordinances, respectively.
In the last year, El Grupo has helped organized voter registration drives and free legal clinics.
"It's the best way for people to stand up for their own rights; to learn what their rights are and fight for their rights," he said.
Though immigration matters have taken most of the group's attention, Cordero and others said they hope to focus their attention on education matters in the coming year, including student dropout rates and higher education.
A time when the group is no longer necessary is still a long way off, Cordero said.
"In order for us to make progress, you have to look at it over a long time," he said.
-- Contact staff writer Edward Sifuentes at (760) 740-3511 or esifuentes@nctimes.com.
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ObSERVER wrote on Aug 26, 2007 11:24 PM:This grupo is irrelevanto.... Only the newspaper gives them credence.
Stop wrote on Aug 27, 2007 1:17 AM:Hey Proud American, stop the sarcasam and insults. El Groupo is composed of legal Americans. When you make those comments, it makes you sound like a bigot. Anyway, I am a Mexican American, I don't support these kind of groups. They don't speak for me. Notice the lack of support they don't get from the Latino community.
Somethings missing wrote on Aug 27, 2007 1:34 AM:We had a crazy storm hit us Sunday morning and it barely gets a few mentions? Come on NCTIMES don't make me read the UT for local news coverage.
Euphoric Reality wrote on Aug 27, 2007 4:58 AM:El Grupo is just another race based pressure group seeking to gorge itself at the public trough. If El Grupo really wanted reform, they would be protesting the plutocracy that is the Mesican government and demanding that Mexico reform itself into a nation befitting the 21st century.
Human Beings wrote on Aug 27, 2007 5:08 AM:When we all take care of each other we will no longer need this group. Until then, go El Grupo!
Carter: wrote on Aug 27, 2007 6:08 AM: Lets get this straight: The problem is not with Latino immigrants - the problem is with ILLEGAL ALEINS! And the NCT works hard at keeping the Latino public stirred up so they will buy their newspapers. The leadership in El Grupo want to be accepted as leaders and can find no other way. El Grupo should take a good look at the ACLU and their beginning and they will know where they are coming from. It would be best for them to stay as far away from them as possible. They will eat into your pocketbooks to further their own causes. In every human endeavor mistakes are made - and I am sure our Sheriffs Department is no different, and when they make mistakes and the mistakes need to be brought before the public. However, I will put our Sheriff's Department up against any any the nation. El Grupo is a clandestine operation, hiding in the shadows afraid to meet and operate in the light of day - according to the above article. I suppose that serves to satisfy the cravings of some, but it just brings the bile up from my stomach.
Maybe El Grupo wrote on Aug 27, 2007 6:19 AM:can help Americans secure the border so we don't have the terrorist who doesn't care if you are mexican or american, they just want to kill all of us! Or is El Grupo part of the terrorist plot?
Political Opportunist wrote on Aug 27, 2007 6:31 AM:The Group of Bill Flores has nothing to do with El Grupo Sin Nombre. Instead, this political opportunist (new to the community) hijacked the name as a platform for his political ambitions.
Stu wrote on Aug 27, 2007 6:56 AM:They can start by having their allegiance to the Red, White, and Blue, instead of the Green, White, and Red. Then everything else would follow as it should, and they would disband out of sheer embarrassement for what they espouse.
The Buck Stops wrote on Aug 27, 2007 7:07 AM:Yes, what a bang up job they did on that Senate immigration bill too! Maybe now El Groupo can get a clueo and fight for something that's not a lost cause. Like say, reform in Mex......oh never mind!
Federal Rental Ban wrote on Aug 27, 2007 7:10 AM:Renting property is a business. The business relationship between landlord and tenant is a long term relationship lasting for months or years. Asking a landlord to spend a few minutes to verify residency status using something like an I-9 form, much like employers are now required to do, is not a big deal except to the illegal immigrant who is trying to blend into the existing community undetected. For the last 20 years, I have had to provide documents to my employer in order to be able to work. Fake documents is the currency of criminals and are no excuse for not implementing effective policies, such as a Federal rental ban. By the way, legal immigrants are required to carry papers at all times (8 U.S.C. 1304(e)) and to submit a change of address within 10 days of moving (8 U.S.C. 1305 and 1306). Foreign nationals do not have the right to invade the US and reside here without consequence because they claim some civil right violation. That is a perversion of civil rights, and if allowed to continue, may result in tyranny imposed by the foreign invaders. Every citizen of the US, including landlords, should welcome the opportunity to assist in the effort to address the problem of illegal immigration.
Importing Racism wrote on Aug 27, 2007 7:31 AM:According to a UC Davis Researcher, 'Much worse than U.S. natives, immigrants tend to have racist attitudes toward African-Americans. The U.S., by accepting large numbers of immigrants, is in effect importing racism.' If we want to address racism, then address illegal immigration!
McD wrote on Aug 27, 2007 7:33 AM:When will these so called "Civil Rights" groupo's understand the glaring fact that the people who are in OUR COUNTRY illegaly DO NOT HAVE ANY RIGHTS-- Civil or otherwise-- "Head em up and move em out"
To Stop wrote on Aug 27, 2007 7:46 AM:Don't bother NCT pulled Proud Americans remarks, I had seen it to earlier. Looks like Big Brother is here.
Secret group wrote on Aug 27, 2007 8:05 AM:They meet in secrecy with meetings closed to the public. I hope there are never any taxpayer monies spent on project supporting this group. They need to concentrate on grafitti and getting rid of overcrowding before they continue to encourage people to come and stay here illegally.
What Rights??? wrote on Aug 27, 2007 8:09 AM:"It's the best way for people to stand up for their own rights; to learn what their rights are and fight for their rights." What rights (that people who are here illegally, using stolen social security cards) is he talking about?? Obviously, he cares more about the illegal Mexican immigrants than he cares about legal U.S. citizens and the law.
Advocacy?? wrote on Aug 27, 2007 8:22 AM:They call this an "advocacy program". Just who and what is it that they are advocating for?? We can only look at their actions since they don't allow outsiders in their meetings. Seems like Flores is just using this group for his own agenda.
Concerned-1 wrote on Aug 27, 2007 8:24 AM:Is this news? A racially motivated group supporting people who break the law. Sometimes I wonder.
You all need to recognize wrote on Aug 27, 2007 8:27 AM:I bet all of you hating on Bill Flores and this group are members of the hate group known as the minutemen! I wonder why the minutemen don't disband out of sheer embarassment I mean really, love affairs exposed, vandalism of migrant camps exposed, I saw a video of Jeff Schwilk rocking a red bikini, yeah I think the embarassment card needs to be played elsewhere. Good for you Bill Flores continued success to you and yours.
Dutch wrote on Aug 27, 2007 8:51 AM:What a waste of newspaper space. This is the best NC Times can come up with?
Greg wrote on Aug 27, 2007 8:55 AM:Flores moved from La Costa a little over two years ago. I just wonder why he didn't start his movement there. Or why he left that community.
Traitor Resigns wrote on Aug 27, 2007 8:58 AM:Alberto Gonzales, the traitor who presided over the Bush administration's political imprisonment of heroic Border Patrol Agents, Ramos and Campeon, has resigned. http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2007/08/27/ap/headlines/d8r9d9t00.txt His fellow traitor, Johnny Sutton, the defender of drug mules employed by the drug cartels, should likewise resign!!!
whats happening.. wrote on Aug 27, 2007 8:58 AM:this is off base from this story but when something drops off the front page the people and politicians go quiet...whats going on with the ban on 24 hr street parking? what about all the 'mini dorm' houses in our residential communities.
Agenda: wrote on Aug 27, 2007 9:00 AM:NC Times, so long as you delete or do not post reader comments that do not fit your political agenda, I won't even use you to wrap fish or line my birds cage. You are an embarrasemnt to free speech.
Censor2 wrote on Aug 27, 2007 9:03 AM:Wow! El Gruple must be a very powerful organization. Almost everytime Bill Flores calls an elected official a racist, the NCTimes seems to print it. Then, if a member of the community gets a similar comment published, El Grupo's inside person at the NCTimes seems to get the comment unpublished.
Agenda: wrote on Aug 27, 2007 9:05 AM:With "Big Eddie S" putting them on the front page of this rag, they will only get a bad name that no law abiding american will trust. Find a new drum to beat Ed, you old, tired and obvious agenda is only boring us. Go to Mexico and straighten them up, OK?
Pablo wrote on Aug 27, 2007 9:09 AM:If Mr. Flores cared about the plight of Latinos he would join the city council in their effort to curtail the slumlords who cram so many tenants into spaces so small that the tenants are unsafe and unhealthy. He should be ashamed of himself for using their plight for his political gain.
Citizen X wrote on Aug 27, 2007 9:09 AM:I'm going to start an orgainzation called "The Group". The group is 'a coalition of representatives from various civil and Caucasian rights organizations that takes political stands on social and legal concerns in non-minority communities'. Anyone want to bet how long until it's branded a racist organization? By the way, the text above is the description of El Groupowith just two words changed. Now whose the racist??!!??
bryan wrote on Aug 27, 2007 9:11 AM:All this paper wants to do is keep telling the illegal alien story until they can get amnesty. their goal is to promote any small story or issue. We legal americans just want laws followed and want to be able to walk down the street at night and to be able to send our kids to safe schools.
To Concerned you are right wrote on Aug 27, 2007 9:17 AM:The real news is the SDMM are the prime suspects in the vandalism of the personal property of migrants. I think the SDMM is a racially motivated group supporting people who break the law. Sometimes I wonder. Hey Secret Group these guys collect $10,000 for a reward to catch lawbreakers, I don't think they have or will ever need taxpayer money. I know one thing for sure I have not read in the news anything about poor handling of the money donated to this group. Nothing like the news I have read in various newspapers about the minutemen groups and the inapproriate use of donated funds.
NCTimes Censorship wrote on Aug 27, 2007 9:44 AM:The NCTimes is not a balanced newspaper on the issue of illegal immigration. On May 1, 2007, it published a front page article, 'Traffickers now smuggle drugs, people - Mexican druglords taking over routes from coyotes' by Olga R. Rodrigues of the Associated Press. www.nctimes.com/pdf/2007pdfs/05012007/Escondido.pdf That article was one of the most important articles on illegal immigration published by the NCTimes in the last 5 years! However, the front page article quickly disappeared from its Web site. It was not until the image of the front page for May 1, 2007, was published that a link to the story, acceptable under the NCTimes comments policy, was available to comment writers. (Since it is an Associate Press article, the complete story is available from other newspapers--those having journalistic integrity). I fear this comment will not be published, but if it is, each reader should read that article, and then consider the journalistic integrity of the NCTimes. Once the media of a community become corrupt, its government institutions will soon follow. (Is it a coincidence that the Cunningham corruption happened on NCTimes' watch!?)
Chip wrote on Aug 27, 2007 9:49 AM:Come on NCT and Ed, we need real news reported to us. Oh, and by the way, how is this group any different from LaRaza, and you know what LaRaza stands for?
LUVUS wrote on Aug 27, 2007 10:11 AM:To "Stop:" There's a double-negative in your 8/27, 1:17 am post. Up too late? You should join the group called You Don't Speak for Me if you aren't a member yet. Looks like "Proud American" got the boot. Every day is a potential day of censorship at NCT.
Jim wrote on Aug 27, 2007 10:27 AM:With Bill Flore stance on illegals, it sounds to me he thinks he is above the law.
More Censorship wrote on Aug 27, 2007 10:27 AM:My longer Federal Rental Ban comment was not posted. Summary, congress should pass a Federal Rental Ban. Lets see if this get posted. Or is it too offensive!
To Human Beings above: wrote on Aug 27, 2007 10:34 AM:Your concise statement is worth one thousand words. It's the philosophy behind your words that is leading to the demise of this great country. Every individual is responsible for himself/herself. There are thousands of stories of the successes of immigrants and minorites who have made it on their own without having the attitude that others owe them anything.
Dealing With Biased NCTimes Comment Censors wrote on Aug 27, 2007 10:42 AM:Folks! The Comment Censors are hyperactive today. Here is how I deal with the politically incorrect NCTimes comment censors who will not post illegal immigration related comments even though the comments do not contain foul language, defamatory statements, personal attacks or other questionable content. Before I post a comment, I copy and save it. No need losing a perfectly good comment. If I forget to copy it, I use the back button. Than I repost the comment later in the day. Many times, things that do not get past the morning censor are readily posted by the afternoon censor. Other times, I repost the comment on other articles on the same topic, sometimes weeks or months later. By now I have a pretty good guess of which persons and topics are the 'sacred cows' of the NCTimes. Hint: If a person promoted in an article calls another people a 'racist', the name calling person is a 'sacred cow', and true, valid, and verifiable comments about that person, that are not laudatory, will not get posted.
More Pregnant wrote on Aug 27, 2007 10:45 AM:Now that the summary of the comment has been posted at 10:27 am, lets see if the original comment will be posted: Federal Rental Ban. Renting property is a business. The business relationship between landlord and tenant is a long term relationship lasting for months or years. Asking a landlord to spend a few minutes to verify residency status using something like an I-9 form, much like employers are now required to do, is not a big deal except to the illegal immigrant who is trying to blend into the existing community undetected. For the last 20 years, I have had to provide documents to my employer in order to be able to work. Fake documents is the currency of criminals and are no excuse for not implementing effective policies, such as a Federal rental ban. By the way, legal immigrants are required to carry papers at all times (8 U.S.C. 1304(e)) and to submit a change of address within 10 days of moving (8 U.S.C. 1305 and 1306). Foreign nationals do not have the right to invade the US and reside here without consequence because they claim some civil right violation. That is a perversion of civil rights, and if allowed to continue, may result in tyranny imposed by the foreign invaders. Every citizen of the US, including landlords, should welcome the opportunity to assist in the effort to address the problem of illegal mmigration.
More Censorship II wrote on Aug 27, 2007 10:48 AM:My longer El Grupo Socialista comment was not posted. Summary, Aztlan is a socialist fable. Lets see if this gets posted. Or is it too offensive!
Name Calling II wrote on Aug 27, 2007 10:53 AM:This comment was pulled from this article. I am posting one-half of the comment, with a dictionary defintion. 'El Grupo gets its energy from calling . . . people racists, which attracts latino[s] . . . to its ranks.' Perhaps the comments editor is unfamiliar with the definition of a bigot. A bigot is one fanatically devoted to one's own group, religion, race, or politics, and intolerant of those who differ.
Nancy wrote on Aug 27, 2007 10:54 AM:Eddie is a slow learner. He continues to confuse "immigrant" and "illegal alien". His articles are becoming more ho-hum.
Jack wrote on Aug 27, 2007 11:03 AM:Why would a legal U.S. citizen (Flores)want to help someone break the laws of the United States? Illegal people come in all races. We are trying to keep America from becoming a 3rd world country. If it is the law, then its the law. If you can't live by the U.S. laws, then go home.
Name Calling III wrote on Aug 27, 2007 11:05 AM:My earlier comment 'Name Calling' was pulled from this article. I am posting an edited version of the comment, with adequate support for the original comment's veracity. 'El Grupo gets its energy from calling . . . people [a derogatory term published in the NCTimes articles below], which attracts latino[s] . . . to its ranks.' The derogatory term was published in the commentary of August 22, 2006, 'http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2006/08/22/opinion/commentary/21_04_378_21_06.txt'; the commentary of January 5, 2007, www.nctimes.com/articles/2007/01/05/opinion/commentary/19_20_181_4_07.txt; adn the following articles: www.nctimes.com/articles/2007/08/09/opinion/trageser/08_09_5607_89_56.txt; www.nctimes.com/articles/2006/12/24/news/top_stories/21_17_1412_23_06.txt (Is the truth too offensive!?)
Paul wrote on Aug 27, 2007 11:11 AM:So was mine pulled. I would like to know from the editor what was offensive about my comment. Don't refer to your comment policy, I know very well what that reads. What I said reflected on a public person.
Proud American wrote on Aug 27, 2007 11:19 AM:Until you guys stop labeling yourselves as mexican Americans or some other foreign nationality/Americans you will always be looked upon by legal American citizens as outsiders. Learn english, come here legally, work legally, pay into the system & enjoy the American dream. Is that a hard concept to understand?
It's too bad... wrote on Aug 27, 2007 11:24 AM:that El Groupo has decided to operate in secrecy and out of the public eye. I am concerned for the reputations of those member organizations that have typically stood up loudly and proudly for the causes they represent. Nothing is gained by the secrecy and seclusion except suspicion and distrust, even by those who might otherwise support the efforts. Come out and fight, but do it in the light.
Hank wrote on Aug 27, 2007 11:26 AM:Another illegal alien with TB discovered in Florida. He wanted to cut and run back to Mexico, but thankfully was stopped and isolated before it could spread it around. It is problems like this that El Grupo does not help with their open borders mentality. We used to have Ellis Island and politicans who cared about our health. No more.
Theotis wrote on Aug 27, 2007 11:27 AM:So let me guess.. this group no doubt supports illegal aliens....so LET'S PICKET THEIR MEETINGS! Alien supporters, not jock straps, routinely picket Minuteman functions, so why not PICKET THIS GROUP?
Henry wrote on Aug 27, 2007 11:34 AM:It would be good if El Grupo allowed some of the $10,000. reward money to be used to apprehend and arrest the taggers who are defacing our communities. Perhaps the young gangbangers and punks would respond if community leaders in their community condemned and assisted the police in apprehending them and putting them behind bars.
Amazed wrote on Aug 27, 2007 11:36 AM:Just what we need a group that holds secret meetings that make plans to aid those that are here illegally. I wonder what would happen if a group like this formed in Mexico to help US Citizens living there and making demands on the government to aid them? How long would it take the Mexican government to arrest the members of a group like this? Who would stand up for their rights of freedom to mee6?
Join pro America groups wrote on Aug 27, 2007 11:49 AM:Michelle Malkin has a group "deportthemnow", American mothers have formed Mothers Against Illegal Aliens. Join SOS, FAIR, the Minutemen and all the pro America groups you can. We Americans will take our country back from these hate America groups like the ACLU, SPLC, CRLA, La Raza and now El Grupo. IF you love the "first world" status you now enjoy, get involved before the above mentioned groups turn the US into their third world utopia. FIGHT BACK, AMERICA.
Ray wrote on Aug 27, 2007 11:51 AM:Yet another "slanted" story by our favorite reporter "Sifuentes".
From Comments Mediator wrote on Aug 27, 2007 11:57 AM:Please stop sending in comments that do not fit into the political bias of this publication, my delete button finger is getting carpal tunnel syndrome.
To Comments Mediator wrote on Aug 27, 2007 12:05 PM:Please stop publishing this nonsense, My bird only can use one NCT paper a day. The NCT is "biased" go figure. Doctors can help your carpal tunnel syndrome.
Skip wrote on Aug 27, 2007 12:20 PM:All I said was that after that wonderful commentary on "Anchor Babies", that I see all of these Illegal Immigration stories as "commentaries", and not real news. It looks like at least 80% of the other posters agree with me.
Concerned-1 wrote on Aug 27, 2007 12:21 PM:The sad thing to me about groups like El Groupo and La Raza is that they make people condem a whole culture. I believe they are counter productive and they do more harm than good for the Mexican/Latino culture.
Patriot wrote on Aug 27, 2007 12:51 PM:Let's see... an illegal alien has the right to cross our border at will, even if previously deported, spread TB, give birth to children at government expense, have their children educated at government expense, receive welfare benefits for their children, have government agencies deal with them in their native languages, and be left alone as if no crime has been committed and no harm done to this country. If you don't quite agree, then research the presidential candidates' positions. I can tell you that two of them voted last year (as part of "comprehansive" immigration reform) to grant social security numbers and benefits to illegal aliens who have been working using stolen social security numbers. I suppose this is another "right" that El Grupo supports.
Bored wrote on Aug 27, 2007 12:54 PM:Would Sifuentes and the NCT please stop pushing the illegal alien agenda already. How in the world could anyone consider this the top story of the day! It's really getting old.
Erin wrote on Aug 27, 2007 1:17 PM:I guess Bill Flores will run for Escondido City Counsel now that he has plastered his name all over Escondido. God forbid if that should happen.
I would like someone wrote on Aug 27, 2007 1:25 PM:in El Grupo to explain to us what the difference is in someone entering your house illegally and stealing from you and entering your country illegally and stealing from you.
A fill-in wrote on Aug 27, 2007 1:32 PM:Ms. Diaz already has and is running for the Escondido City Council. She has the same stands as Mr. Flores.
Bankrupt wrote on Aug 27, 2007 1:33 PM:Mainly it is the intellectually bankrupt who throw around the term racist. They can't think of reason to defend their position so the just say, "racist, racist, racist."
Food for Thought wrote on Aug 27, 2007 1:39 PM:The NCT policies state that, “Editors will not post any offensive language, defamatory statements, personal attacks or other questionable content.” So I did not violate any of the policies mentioned above yet my comments don’t get posted. Why? Simple because there are editors whom I will not name, knows exact identify of the individuals behind their computers IP numbers. The names of the individuals are known to NCT but not to the readers, this explains why if certain NCT editors don’t like you they just censure, censure, censure and censure you over and over and over regardless of one’s posts. Then you call them up on their bs they say oh, read written policies you must have done something wrong. WRONG twisted thinking and analogies I say.
These activist have wrote on Aug 27, 2007 1:44 PM:too much timeon their hands, do something useful, go to Mexico's southern boarders and demand that they open up the boarder! Course chances of you coming back alive are pretty slim...But hey it would keep you pretty busy:)
Give me a break wrote on Aug 27, 2007 1:55 PM:Flores is just using this for a stepping stone, I wonder what office he is going for?
To I would like someone wrote on Aug 27, 2007 1:56 PM:I will explain what the difference is between someone entering your house illegally, and stealing from you, and entering your country illegally, and stealing from you As soon as someone from your group explains to me what makes it okay for anti-immigrant groups to vandalize the personal property of others?
Vote Splitting wrote on Aug 27, 2007 2:06 PM:Olga Diaz is already raising money. Bill Flores should support her. Otherwise he will merely split 'El Grupo' vote.
somebody wrote on Aug 27, 2007 2:09 PM:People sale ther social security # too. there not always stolen.
Whatever wrote on Aug 27, 2007 2:13 PM:El grupo is a fine group but they definetley aren't the first. there are other organizations that started doing work on immigrant rights and latino rights before this group did, they just don't give much attention to the other groups.
not really a problem wrote on Aug 27, 2007 2:17 PM:Why all the fuss about illegal immigration? Illegal immigrants didn't plan 9/11, didn't lead us into the Iraq war, aren't responsible for the soaring foreclosure rates, haven't contributed to global warming with giant SUVs, aren't responsible for the pension crisis in San Diego... need I go on?
I should of thought wrote on Aug 27, 2007 2:21 PM:of this sooner. I know lots of illegals and they tell me which employers aren't paying overtime. They can't report it but I CAN! In recent years many employers have reclassified their workers as "independent contractors" to avoid the costs of workers compensation and overtime pay associated with employment of workers classified as employees. This agency and responsible advisors to business have counseled against this practice. Yet a sizeable number of consultants and some attorneys have worked at enticing employers to attempt this risky maneuver. A recently issued opinion of the California Court of Appeal, Sixth District, has once again highlighted the dangers faced by employers that improperly designate workers as independent contractors.
Censorship #7 wrote on Aug 27, 2007 2:25 PM:The NCT policies state that, “Editors will not post any offensive language, defamatory statements, personal attacks or other questionable content.” So I did not violate any of the policies mentioned above yet my comments don’t get posted. Why? Simple because there are editors whom I will not name, knows exact identify of the individuals behind their computers IP numbers. The names of the individuals are known to NCT but not to the readers, this explains why if certain NCT editors don’t like you they just censure, censure, censure and censure you over and over and over regardless of one’s posts. Then you call them up on their bs they say oh, read written policies you must have done something wrong. WRONG twisted thinking and analogies I say.
NCTimes Censorship wrote on Aug 27, 2007 2:32 PM:I count at least 12 posts which were censored. Two of mine were also censored - both of which complied with the comment policies. Doesn't the NCTimes get it that 99% of the people who read their paper daily don't support illegal aliens? Why do you consider to print Sifuentes' drivel? Why does the NCTimes support El Grupo, whose meetings are held in secret, aren't open to the public & whose members are contacted by phone & email? Sounds like another group that used to meet in the South back in the '50s and '60s.
True 2 wrongs wrote on Aug 27, 2007 2:59 PM:don't make a right, but if the illegals would obey our laws and come here legally none of that would of occured now would it?
Paul wrote on Aug 27, 2007 3:01 PM:NCT did post my 9:00 am comment. To editor NCT, obviously several of us bloggers have different political/social views. Every one who posts here is subject to commentary by their fellow bloggers, some are very well thought out challenging replies, some are short acidic replies. But whichever, the blogs allow a platform where a dialog of thoughts and ideas on the news topic can be exchanged and discussed. We rely on you to provide editing which is equitable for all viewpoints.
To NCTimes Censorship wrote on Aug 27, 2007 3:06 PM:HHHUUMMMM it sounds like you are describing another group whose meetings aren't open to the public and whose members are contacted by phone and e-mail, sounds alot like the Minutemen. Come on if you don't have anything worth mentioning why post.
To Erin wrote on Aug 27, 2007 3:13 PM:It is actually City Council and please know that El Grupo does not endorse any political candidate. I doubt if Bill Flores would run for office, but if he would he has my vote. Good job Bill Flores, El Grupo, and all the others involved in making our City officials, Sheriff's Department accountable for their actions.
To "To Erin" wrote on Aug 27, 2007 3:30 PM:To Erin wrote on Aug 27, 2007 3:13 PM: "Good job Bill Flores, El Grupo, and all the others involved in making our City officials, Sheriff's Department accountable for their actions. " As opposed to those who just scoff at our laws and live here illegally. Nice try...
RG wrote on Aug 27, 2007 4:10 PM:El Grupo will never get my sympathy or support until they stop trying to blur the line between legal and illegal, and stop undermining efforts to enforce driving laws and city ordinances. Until then, they are certainly making a name for themselves all right, a baaaad name in my opinion.
Goodbye, wrote on Aug 27, 2007 4:17 PM:Illegal alien lawbreakers. The American people are awake now.
What? wrote on Aug 27, 2007 4:24 PM:I am anti illegal immigration. That said, I am more than slightly disconcerted by people saying that illegals have no rights. Everyone has rights in this country. Even criminals. I would even go so far as to say protecting criminals rights is key to protecting everyone elses rights. If the criminal has no rights then all the state has to do to take others rights away is call them criminals.
paco wrote on Aug 27, 2007 4:38 PM:mexico has the nerve to say that america needs to do something about its illegal immigration problem up here! i guess it's stupid to think mexico will ever do anything about the immigration problem that starts in their country. just blame the americans. it works for drugs, too. it won't be long and we'll have to move the border up to sacramento and build a new wall.
Time for Jerry Brown to Audit the Entire North County wrote on Aug 27, 2007 5:04 PM:NCTimes Censorship- you are correct recipients of state and federal funding MUST COMPLY with the OPEN MEETING LAWS but here NCT censors any posts that point this fact out. Based on Sifuentes OWN ARTICLE above I know for a FACT that some of these organizations receive State and Federal funding. What is wrong with meetings that are closed to the public with public money financially supporting them? Humm.. As usual NCT likes to dish out so called “DIVERSE” articles like this one above. But NCT cannot take the heat when readers point out the wrong doings in their group of ELITE BUDDIES in their INNER CIRCLE.
Chuck wrote on Aug 27, 2007 6:19 PM:I completely agree with "NCTimes Censorship" remarks. Seems like the NCTimes print stories ONLY to sell papers, but are not too concerned with reporting the truth and the whole story.
Skip wrote on Aug 27, 2007 6:26 PM:I do not know that mush about Governor Pete Wilson as I was stationed overseas during most of his time in office, but I take great offense at the way a small group of protestors tried to shut down the unveiling of his statue in San Diego this week. Do you want to see the HATE; do you want to see the violence and the threats, how about the smear tactics and the pure racist hate? Then do a search on YouTube of "PETE WILSON STATUE". There are at least a dozen different videos posted, and then you decide. This, my friends is what America is coming to because they have been weak in enforcing their own laws. The threats by this group and their leader are nothing short of terrorism.
What? wrote on Aug 27, 2007 6:27 PM:To those complaining about NCT censorship I would say think carefully about what you post. I doubt they bother finding the IP addresses of posters. To then connect an ip to an individual would be pretty tough without the cooperation of that persons internet service providers. Short of a court order I don't see that happening. To think they would bother sounds a little paranoid to me. Ok I am rambling now. Bottom line is it's their bat and their ball. If you don't like their rules find somewhere else to play.
90 wrote on Aug 27, 2007 6:41 PM:over 90 comments for this story. Give me a break! this is not news and all of you including me posted comments.
J.W. wrote on Aug 27, 2007 6:43 PM:The NCT prints a lot of pro-illegal alien articles. How about doing stories on the problems illegals bring with them. How many arrests for drunk driving are illegals? How many rapes, murder and robberies are illegals? How many illegals are using our emergency rooms? How many illegal children are in our classrooms? How many jobs have illegals taken for low wages which displaces American Citizens? How many social security numbers have illegals stolen? How many women are deliberately sneaking in to have their babies, or bringing in their kids and saying they were born here? And how many illegals are sneaking into our Country every day?
What?What? wrote on Aug 27, 2007 7:00 PM:Illegal alien lawbreakers have no right to be here in the first place. We do have the right to deport them back to their own Country.
Hey just a question wrote on Aug 27, 2007 7:36 PM:for you all.....If a group of white people got together and organized a group to defend whites of crimes they commited, or help sue the crap out of other ethnic groups who comitted crimes on them would they be called racist? What is the difference between the 2 groups. I mean heck, the white cop gets shot at my latinos and african americans, where is the racism in that...but low and behold the white cop that shoots at a latino or african american.....stand up American, were are being had....again.
Reality wrote on Aug 27, 2007 7:50 PM:This group hopes to destroy all American laws in the name of RACISM ! What would happen if you broke into Bill Flore's house and decided to live there, with a promise to do certain chores he did not want to do. He would probably want you arrested....I don't think they see the symbolism
Karl wrote on Aug 27, 2007 8:14 PM:To " People sale ther social security # too. there not always stolen". I'll try to communicate at your level. Are you saying that if a person buys a SSN from a crook that means they were hoodwinked and are not crooks also? Get a grip! Anyone dealing in stolen SSN numbers is a Felon. It sounds like you have or have friends that have trafficed in this illegal activity. I hope that you and your friends are caught and are incarcerated for a long time. In your response to this post please call me a racist, it will only show your weak position.
Greg in Oceanside wrote on Aug 27, 2007 8:43 PM:Bill Flores and El Grupo is an opportunistic organization. They only surface when it's in their best interest to step forward. But they disappear when it really matters and the problems are clearly caused by, or the fault of Latinos. Where was Bill Flores and El Grupo when 128 Mexican gang members, 60 of whom were illegal aliens, were recently arrested in a gang sweep in North County? Why wasn't El Grupo working side by side with law enforcement or giving praise for taking these criminals off our streets? What has El Grupo done to address the disproportionate amount of crime committed by Latinos in our communities and in our jails? Where was El Grupo when NCT published an article about the huge gap between Latino students and their white and Asian counterparts? They should be taking a leadership role and working with Latino parents on academic programs to help their kids, to hopefully stem the almost 30 percent dropout rate amongst Latinos. El Grupo is nothing but a racist organization bent on defending the "rights' of Latino thugs and illegal aliens, accusing law enforcement of using strong tactics against them. And leave it up to Ed Sifuentes to stir the pot and write his rhetoric about how El Grupo is successful and making a name for themselves. Please, spare us. Why don’t you publish the time and location of El Grupo’s next meeting so concerned citizens can attend? I’d like to be at the next meeting and from what I’ve read so would countless others.
Karl wrote on Aug 27, 2007 8:44 PM:Whoa, haven't you all figured it out. Controversy sells newspapers. To "To I would like someone". Here's the explaination. If the SDMM did indeed pull off "anti-immigrant groups to vandalize the personal property of others? " I agree. They should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. However, if the the tapes you refer to were shot after the "Illegal" and I emphasize "Illegal" folks had already vacated the property that they were trespassing on, the SDMM were well within their rights to do what they were doing. If these squatters were on my property I would have filed a complaint with the proper authourities. Best Wishes Karl
Patriot wrote on Aug 27, 2007 9:16 PM:We need more... anti-American organizations such as El Grupo for us to realize how blessed we are to be Americans.
Yes El Grupo has made a name for themselves wrote on Aug 27, 2007 9:20 PM:Productive. I think that's what got all you anti-immigration [activists]... all in an uproar. I'm glad that Bill Flores speaks up for the Latino community. They are a marginalized group of people. I don't know why Bill Flores would do it.....I doubt if he does it to make a name for himself he already made it to the high ranking positions in Law enforcement. Maybe he saw things he thinks need correcting in law enforcement. Thank you Bill Flores and others who are protecting the underdog.
How dumb is your logic????? wrote on Aug 27, 2007 9:22 PM:True 2 wrongs wrote on Aug 27, 2007 2:59 PM: " don't make a right, but if the illegals would obey our laws and come here legally none of that would of occured now would it? " Stupid myopic viewpoints, still you make no sense with your nonsense.
What? wrote on Aug 27, 2007 9:52 PM:No they don't have the right to be here and yes we have the right to deport them. What bothers me are posts like McD at 7:33AM and What Rights at 8:09 AM. Both say they have no rights. I disagree. They have many of the same rights as citizens. Not all, but many of them.
To: What wrote on Aug 27, 2007 10:12 PM:If they are here legally, they have rights. As illegals, they don't have the RIGHT to be here.....NO RIGHTS!!
comments edited wrote on Aug 27, 2007 10:20 PM:NCT also edited my comments about 30 people living in one home. Thats correct NCT 30, come on out and count them...
To What!! wrote on Aug 28, 2007 4:53 AM:Thats the who problem! They have many of the same rights and privilages as us citizens and DOCUMENTED immigrants. If they are illegally in the country, why should we pay for their education, medical care, high insurance costs becasue they keep drivin with no lucincia!!! I say to Mexico and other nations around the world, Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, lift my lap beside the golden door! THEN GO TO ELLIS ISLAND (OR ANY PORT OF ENTRY) AND GET IN LINE TO DO IT LEGALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Paul wrote on Aug 28, 2007 6:26 AM:To What? I also buy the paper. I can take my miniscule economic impact elsewhere. So it may be their bat and ball, but if the reader base leaves, there will be no ball park.
borderraven wrote on Aug 28, 2007 7:17 AM:So a law that protects the rights of citizen workers, including those Latinos who may have an uncle or child, being a legal resident or citizen, who would benefit from reduced competition,in the job market, from illegal aliens, regardless of race? How would El Grupo, address an influx, of Africa refugees, from Darfur, all legal residents, suddenly seeking day labor?
Skip wrote on Aug 28, 2007 7:40 AM:I have no doubt that there would be over 500 posts on this story if they were not all getting censored by the NCT.
Kate wrote on Aug 28, 2007 7:43 AM:to-What?- you must be back in the stone age. Yes the NCT knows the IP numbers, dah!!! Do you play ball with NCT and their little inner circle?
mama56 wrote on Aug 28, 2007 10:33 AM:It's great that all has been said. This Flores guy is a sad statement for any American......geez guy, is this how you got promoted in the Department...throw out a race card when things don't go your way? Find something better to do with your retirement! You're embarrassing yourself and your family. And Sifuentes, ever hear of unbiased professional reporting?? You're a fraud!
What? wrote on Aug 28, 2007 11:50 AM:No Kate I don't play ball with NCT and their little inner circle. Inner circle? Oh please, you make it sound like they are some hidden power in politics. It is a small local paper. Nothing more. Let me guess, you are a conspiracy theorist. Well I am going back into my cave to bang rocks together. Because as a primitive IT professional I have no idea about how networks work.
What? wrote on Aug 28, 2007 12:10 PM:To What? We shouldn't have to pay for all that stuff and if the government would get to work enforcing the law instead of writing new laws we wouldn't have to. Did you read the begining of my post? I am ANTI illegal immigration. I think the wall is a waste of money that will do nothing to reduce illegal immigration. I think interior enforcement is the only plausible soloution. Big fines and jail time for employers of illegals. Anyone caught here illegally needs to be finger printed and informed that if they are caught here illegally again they will NEVER be eligible for legal entery or citizenship. They will also serve one year in jail if they are caught in this country illegally. Two years for the third offense and so on. I also think something needs to be done about automatic citizenship for anyone born in this country. None of this means that they have no rights.
What? wrote on Aug 28, 2007 12:17 PM:Paul. Buh bye. You should also stop visiting this website because they have hit counters. Yes if their reader base leaves they will be in trouble. But this paper has been losing and gaining readers for decades. One more won't break them.
What? wrote on Aug 28, 2007 12:25 PM:Skip, I don't doubt you believe there would be over 500 posts if they weren't getting censored by NCT. Your belief doesn't make it true. About 95% of my posts clear these evil censors. I can usually figure out, in hindsight, why the 5% that don't get by fail. It usually involves name calling caused by frustration at others peoples posts.
Hal wrote on Aug 28, 2007 12:44 PM: Those who say illegal immigrants have no rights are dead wrong. Our Constitution guarantees the right to due process to everyone, regardless of immigration status. Entering this country illegally is tantamount to a misdemeanor. Calling a person "illegal" because of an illegal entry is the same as calling someone "illegal" who runs a stop light or gets busted drunk driving. Wow, are there a lot of "illegals" out there! Too many to count. Where will we send them?
Paul wrote on Aug 28, 2007 2:41 PM:To What, hey I didn't say I was stopping buying the paper. Do you need glasses to read?
Paul wrote on Aug 28, 2007 2:44 PM:To What, I see your an IT pro. Hey you blogging on company time? What company do you work for? Remember NCT is knows your IP address, you best be on your best behavior.
Nick wrote on Aug 28, 2007 3:05 PM:Nice try Hal. The problem is that [many] of those here ILLEGALLY have been deported and again returned ILLEGALLY. That makes it a felony. Working under a stolen SS# is a felony. A vast majority of ILLEGALS have committed 2 felonys. We have a 3 strikes law here in California. It's time it is enforced on the Illegals and not just American criminals. 3 strikes and your doing life. Works for me. Your first DUI might be a misdemeanor, but your second will be a felony. Apples and oranges, not to mention your not even close. Go hug an ILLEGAL, it'll make you feel better.
Native wrote on Aug 28, 2007 4:16 PM:Damn these illegal immigrants. This has been a problem for many years... hundreds of years. In fact it started around the year 1492.
What? wrote on Aug 28, 2007 5:16 PM:Paul, your 6:26 AM post says "I can take my miniscule economic impact elsewhere" That sounds like a threat to cancel. Maybe it was just an empty threat. Or a different Paul? Like I said I don't think NCT looks at IP addresses so I am not concerned. Besides it would be reported to the IT department. Which is me and I have no plan to fire myself. I think a stern warning should take care of it. I am always on my best behavior. Who would want to be less than their best at any time? We are so far off topic that I am done here. Bye all, see you on the next blog of interest.
Mark wrote on Aug 28, 2007 6:24 PM:So many of these posts say one thing and mean another. People are using the word "culture", when they mean "race". "Culture" is more acceptable than "race" because you can be vague but people will understand what you mean. You really mean Mexicans. And when people imply Mexicans with this phony "culture" phrase, they don't bother to distinguish between Mexicans and Mexican Americans....and that's really racist, and really ignorant. "Anchor babies"? They are Mexican Americans. So, what are you really complaining about?
Greg in Oceanside wrote on Aug 28, 2007 9:27 PM:Mark; You dance around a lot of things people have supposedly said on this blog. I'll be glad to give you a simple answer to your last question. People are complaining that illegal aliens have used the 14th Amendment to our Constitution. They abuse our sytem by coming here illegally, then kick out as many kids as they can because the children they give birth to are now 'technically' US citizens. Then they apply for as much governmental assistance, welfare, and healthcare as humanly possible, all on the taxpayers dime. That's what people are complaining about, the abuses of the 'system' by illegal aliens.
Paul wrote on Aug 29, 2007 9:56 AM:There's a difference in meaning and intent between -can- and -will-.
Illegal Voters? wrote on Aug 29, 2007 10:49 AM:What concerns me the most is the fact that El Groupo and other illegal alien support groups are actively pursuing voter registration drives. Have you even been asked to show ID before casting your vote? Will illegal aliens be allowed to vote in the upcoming elections? How will we know? Someone please educate me on this process!
What,what wrote on Aug 29, 2007 5:59 PM:What?- If you knew the real what in the North County you would know the NCT inner circle. Maybe you should get out more go to their little workshops for a while you will see the picture. NCT will not do articles about their little friends and their schemes.
hasta the vista WHAT the president is calling me wrote on Aug 29, 2007 6:06 PM:Hey what--I can see how efficient your IT-Department is if you are here bloging on the JOB! Yeah, I work for the feds and the FBI and the CIA too! But I am here bloging for fun while the country goes down the...
to Native wrote on Aug 29, 2007 7:24 PM:What? 1492 WAS NOT an immigrant issue at all; they were Spanish and Italian Conquerors. Get your facts straight. Native Americans lost the battle for their land which happened everywhere in the world at the time. What is your point? Like, Native Americans didn't war amongst themselves over land and resources? Grow up, join us in the 21st Century.
fullmag wrote on Aug 29, 2007 7:28 PM:Send the groupies to mexico where there are civil and human rights violation's , blatant racism against the darker skinned Indians,maybe help to stop the goverment induced poverty.The group is full of cowards.
El grunto wrote on Aug 29, 2007 8:44 PM:Groupo the 12 million lawbreaking aliens and go back to mexico with them and STAY THERE PLEASE!
Bob wrote on Aug 30, 2007 11:44 AM:Escondido was a beautiful city. Now El grupo goal is to create an anti- Mexican mentality where it never existed. Flores take your group and go back to La Casta. Do you really know what is going on in Escondido?
Bill Flores for Mayor!!! wrote on Aug 30, 2007 1:02 PM:Bill Flores is a good man with lots of courage. No one has to step up and speak up for those who have no voice and he and his group are doing that. Thanks Bill Flores, keep up the good work. To illegal voters...first of all I think anyone who voted for Bush is an illegal voter. Let me educate you(your words not mine). In order for a person to be able to vote they must register with the Registrar of Voters. The person registering provides lots of information, social sercurity number and drivers license number. The registrar of voters office verifies all the info and then and only then will they be able to vote on election day. So please don't worry your pretty little head about the elections no one who is illegal will be able to vote. By the way most of the time the voting machines don't work correctly but why should that matter to any of you at least the illegals didn't vote. I think you should concern yourself more with the entire voting process than who is voting!
To Bob one question for you? wrote on Aug 30, 2007 2:06 PM:What does La Casta mean? Do you really know what is going on in Escondido? Because of all places where an anti-Mexican mentality exists is in Escondido!!!!!! Please with the likes of Ed Gallo, Sam Abed, and Marie Waldron at the helm, there is definately an anti-Mexican mentality in Escondido. I don't agree with the decisions of the evil three but don't kid yourself, Bob, Escondido is not Mexican friendly.
Roberto1 wrote on Sep 2, 2007 12:17 AM:The sky is falling!...the sky is falling...classic xenophobic mass hysteria brought on be dilusions of stopping change. Skips right about one thing...the insulting and ignorant xenophobes would post more ranting diatribes given the chance to hurl more insults. Be inclusionary and the vison won't be so scary.
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