Follow The Law! wrote on Sep 2, 2007 12:36 AM:Day laborers, those hired for less than a three-day period, must be verified before beginning to work. The procedure for verifying the employment authorization of day laborers is the same as for other employees, and the employee and employer must be sure to complete the I-9 form prior to commencement of employment. 8 CFR 1274a.2(b)(iii) and http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/i-9.pdf

This Debate Is Over wrote on Sep 2, 2007 12:39 AM:Notice how this article claims day workers fall under the meaning of 'sporadic domestic service by an individual in a private home'! The meanings are not the same. A day labor can do many type of work including construction work, and painting, landscaping, all of which DO NOT fall within the definition of 'sporadic domestic service by an individual in a private home', which is meant to exempt ocasional babysitters, spring cleaning help, etc. His arguments are not based on a sound reading of the law. The debate is over. Amnesty Lost.

California Law Violations! wrote on Sep 2, 2007 12:41 AM:A casual laborer employed for one hour may be considered an employee. Employers who fail to pay unemployment insurance on such casual labor may be criminals. http://www.edd.ca.gov/taxrep/de231k.pdf A day laborer may claim to be an independent contractor to avoid complying with the law. Nice try! In Vista, an independent contractor must have a business license. Without business license, a day worker must be an employee. It is virtually impossible to hire a 'day laborer' who is an illegal alien without violating Federal law, State law, or a City ordinance!! Also, note that almost all of the Cities complaining about the lack of Federal enforcement was not will to enforce their own ordinances, such as business license requirements.

Business Licenses to Illegals Are Illegal wrote on Sep 2, 2007 12:42 AM:Federal immigration law (8 USC 1621) already in effect declares that an illegal alien is not 'is not eligible for any State or local public benefit.' According to 8 USC 1621(c) local public benefits include a commercial license provided by a local government.

Draft Dodgers! wrote on Sep 2, 2007 12:55 AM:Even illegal alien males must register for the draft. http://www.sss.gov/MUST.HTM They also must register a change of address within 10 days of moving with the Selective Service. Registration and change of address for the draft is the law. A man who fails to register may, if prosecuted and convicted, face a fine of up to $250,000 and/or a prison term of up to five years. That is a felony! http://www.sss.gov/FSbenefits.htm

Do Not Rent To Illegals wrote on Sep 2, 2007 1:06 AM:According to HUD (the US Dept of Housing and Urban Development) the Fair Housing Act prohibits discrimination because of race, color, religion, sex, national origin, disability, and familial status in most housing related transactions. However, the Act does not prohibit discrimination based solely on a person's citizenship status. Accordingly, asking housing applicants to provide documentation of their citizenship or immigration status during the screening process would not violate the Fair Housing Act. In fact, such measures have been in place for a number of years in screening applicants for federally-assisted housing. http://www.hud.gov/offices/fheo/library/sept11.cfm

Repeat Offenders wrote on Sep 2, 2007 1:17 AM:It is a felony for any person, during any 12-month period, to knowingly hire at least 10 individuals with actual knowledge that these individuals are unauthorized aliens. 8 U.S.C. § 1324(a)(3)(A)

Federal Rental Ban wrote on Sep 2, 2007 1:19 AM:Eventually there will be a Federal Rental Ban. American want it, will demand it, and it will be implemented. Renting property is a business. The business relationship between landlord and tenant is a long term relationship lasting for months or years. Asking a landlord to spend a few minutes to verify residency status using something like an I-9 form, much like employers are now required to do, is not a big deal except to the illegal immigrant who is trying to blend into the existing community undetected. For the last 20 years, I have had to provide documents to my employer to be able to work. Fake documents is the currency of criminals and are no excuse for not implementing effective policies, such as a Federal rental ban. Note that legal immigrants are required to carry papers at all times (8 U.S.C. 1304(e)) and to submit a change of address within 10 days of moving (8 U.S.C. 1305 and 1306). Foreign nationals do not have the right to invade the US and reside here without consequence because they claim some civil right violation. That is a perversion of civil rights. Every citizen of the US, including landlords, should welcome the opportunity to assist in the effort to address the problem of illegal immigration.

No Exceptions! wrote on Sep 2, 2007 1:21 AM:One cannot contract with an independent contractor known to be an illegal alien. 8 USC 1324a(a)(4).

Campaign Contributions From Illegals Are Crimes wrote on Sep 2, 2007 1:33 AM:It is a crime for an illegal alien to contribute, donate or spend funds in connection with any federal, state, or local election in the United States, either directly or indirectly. It is also unlawful to help foreign nationals violate that ban or to solicit, receive or accept contributions or donations from them. http://www.fec.gov/pages/brochures/foreign.shtml

Escondodo wrote on Sep 2, 2007 2:55 AM:There are many very sincere people who form their opinions from personal experience. When I moved here from upstste N.Y. 19 years ago I was very sympathetic to the poor Mexicans. Experience has painted a very different picture. My belief is that perspective is largely influenced by whether your exposure to the influx is 8 to 5 or 24/7. Are these illegals just your hired help or your neighbors? More of my energy will be put into contacting elected officials than wasting time on these blogs.

What a breath of fresh air! wrote on Sep 2, 2007 6:56 AM:It is so heartening to read what Mr. Eiden has to say. I have been so ashamed of some of the things I have read and heard from our local residents about immigrants. Rarely does the commentary about immigration seem to last very long without vitriol. It would be truly a step forward if we could begin to talk with civility about it. This would certainly mean we need to leave the Minutemen out of the picture. They are no friends to our community here.

Yes! wrote on Sep 2, 2007 7:11 AM:Finally someone has brought some sanity to this debate. I appreciate Dick Eiden and the information he brought forth. I think it is time to hear some truthful facts and not the lies being spread by the Jeff Schwilk's and his ilk. I agree with the commentator above if we wish to have civil discourse the Minutemen can not be involved. Unfortunately where ever they go they bring along a stench of hatred, racism, intolerance and violence. Thank you again, Mr. Eiden.

Suzette wrote on Sep 2, 2007 7:24 AM:I think the person who posted comments from 12:36 a.m. to 1:33 a.m. is one in the same. I think you need to get some sleep or perhaps a job. Have you seen a doctor for your insomnia problem. Wow this issue must have you all wound up, perhaps you need to get a life. I am seriously concerned about your state of mind. You sound as though you are ready to self combust perhaps you should stay home today because really I am also concerned for the general public. It does sound as though you are capable of hurting someone. As for the article I think it is great that someone has brought some sanity and truth back into this discussion. I am tired of all the lies from the anti-immigrant bashers. I hope you all have a nice day. Oh one more thing the bill that Hazelton, PA has reached for their unConstitutional attempt to rent to illegals is going to cost the taxpayers 2.1 million!! I hope we learn from their experience and not walk down the same path.

Jenkins Case Comment Censored! wrote on Sep 2, 2007 7:36 AM:The NCTimes comment censors are BACK. Still no post on my comment quoting from the Jenkins case from 1997. The open border crowd does not want the public to understand the Jenkins case. On the question of I-9 forms for day laborers, the 9th Circuit ruled against David Jenkins, who hired day laborers without completing an I-9 form. Jenkins v. INS, 108 F.3d 195 (9th Cir. 1997) Case No. 95-70458, Feb. 25, 1997. Further, the 9th Circuit pretty much invalidated the domestic employee exception touted by in ths Commentary [8 CFR 274a.1(h)]. According to the 9th Circuit, 8 USC 1324a(a)(1)(B) applies to all employment in the United States, without an exception for domestic employees.

Alf wrote on Sep 2, 2007 7:46 AM:Well, "Yes!", you seem to be in the minority, the minority comprised of rational, thinking people. The truth is spoken in your second to last sentence "Unfortunately where ever they go they bring along a stench of hatred, racism, intolerance and violence.", the "they" being sdmm and their ilk. Wild, hyperbolic statements have no place in a reasoned discussion or debate. Regards, Alf.

Racist Card wrote on Sep 2, 2007 7:47 AM:I would have appreciated Mr. Eiden's comments a lot more if he didn't pull the "racist card". Americans are getting tired of that. Why is it that pro-illegal people always end up going back to that defense?

CAFRA Comment Censored wrote on Sep 2, 2007 7:49 AM:And once again, the NCTimes comment censors are BACK. Still no post on my comment about Civil Asset Forfeiture Reform Act (CAFRA). Why?! The open border crowd does not want the public to understand the crimes committed by landlord providing shelter to illegal aliens. Here is the post again: It is a federal crime to harbor illegal aliens. 8 USC 1324. The courts have said that to 'harbor' means to 'afford shelter'. A landlord who knowingly, or with a reckless disregard for the truth, rents to an illegal alien is harboring an illegal alien. Harboring is one of the last crimes committed in the transactions of the human smuggling. Landlords who harbor illegal aliens should be aware that: 'One of the new tools that helps ICE fight human smuggling and trafficking is the issuance of Civil Asset Forfeiture Reform Act (CAFRA) notices to property owners whose properties have been identified as being used to facilitate smuggling or harboring aliens.' http://www.ice.gov/pi/investigations/publicsafety/humantrafficking.htm This is an important tool because many landlords turn a blind eye to the facilitation of criminal activity on their properties. Landlords may lose their properties if care is not taken and illegal aliens are sheltered in their properties. The fact that the Federal government is often negligent in pursuing these cases is big gamble for a little extra rent.

Vista Granny wrote on Sep 2, 2007 8:24 AM:If I hire a person, legal or not, to cut my grass and water my flowers one time -- I do not have to have proof that they are legal, pay unemployment, withhold FICA taxes, or any of those things. A person is an independent contractor if they furnish their own tools and choose their own working hours. You must furnish a W-9 to the feds if they earn more than $600 per year. And this isn't Nazi Germany where everyone must carry papers proving they are "legal." Good for you Dick Eiden. Boo to the hateful Minutemen.

Wow--up early? wrote on Sep 2, 2007 8:27 AM:I'm guessing one very dedicated individual had a little advance knowledge of Mr. Eiden's column. Look at the times on the first 11 posts to the blog. What time did this story post to the NC Times web site? Perhaps around midnight?

COMET wrote on Sep 2, 2007 8:38 AM:The North County Forum is a known Socialist/Progressive organization that is basically anti American, anti rule of law, and very much pro illegal alien. That says it all. They hate anyone/group that exposes the costs and dangers of the illegal alien invasion. Get real!

playing the racist card wrote on Sep 2, 2007 8:45 AM:When people can find no excuse for their irrational hatred of an entire group of people, they accuse everyone else of playing the "racist card". The fact is that there are a lot of very hateful (and racist) people in this part of the world and have been for quite a few years. This "hate Mexicans" stuff has been going on since I was back in grade school. And it isn't very hard to find in the comments, letters to the editor and literature put out by the MM and other anti-immigrant types.

anti-illegal immigrant wrote on Sep 2, 2007 8:51 AM:People claim they are not anti-immigrant, just anti illegal-immigrant. But just try and change the law to address the facts of immigration today and woah - the truth comes out loud and clear from some of these people. They don't want any immigrants. They will "change our culture". The are "dirty and diseased". They are "destroying our infrastructure". They live too many to an apartment and park too many cars in the street. And the complaint I find the most hilarious - "They are always talking in a language I don't understand".

Ron_S wrote on Sep 2, 2007 8:55 AM:When I came to this country in 1965,legal and white, I was appalled by the overt racism, both against blacks and Mexicans. Over the years I have watched it rise and fall sometimes covert, sometimes overt, but always there, and always waiting for an excuse to rear its ugly head. Today we can choose from a large selection of facts to prove or disprove the financial advantage of illegal immigrants to our society, and we can do likewise with the argument over security, but our selection of facts is still overwhelming influenced by our level of racism. Dick Eiden has obviously chosen the sensitive and compassionate position.

Susan wrote on Sep 2, 2007 9:08 AM:Excellent commentary by Dick Eiden! I know that those people who deliberately spread lies will continue to do so, but for at least SOME people, this will spread a little TRUTH for a change. The "ugliness" in the North County, that Eiden refers to, obviously exists. But knowing there are others around is encouraging.

Nonsense wrote on Sep 2, 2007 9:28 AM:The debate over illegal aliens continue to be filled with nonsense, such as this article. Here is the bottom line: Every nation must protect their borders. Mexico certainly protects their border to the south of them. The United States government has the same right. Matter of fact, it is their duty to do so. Why the editors of this rag sheet would want to turn our nation over to Mexico is beyond me.

Ron_S wrote on Sep 2, 2007 10:09 AM:When I came to this country in 1965,legal and white, I was appalled by the overt racism, both against blacks and Mexicans. Over the years I have watched it rise and fall sometimes covert, sometimes overt, but always there, and always waiting for an excuse to rear its ugly head. Today we can choose from a large selection of facts to prove or disprove the financial advantage of illegal immigrants to our society, and we can do likewise with the argument over security, but our selection of facts is still overwhelming influenced by our level of racism. Dick Eiden has obviously chosen the sensitive and compassionate position.

Brian wrote on Sep 2, 2007 10:10 AM:In regards to the restricted medical benefits for the undocumented persons, what you say is true, but this coverage also pays all cost of child birth. The children of the undocumented are now eligible for all public assistance, cash aid, food stamps and free medical. These benefits are paid directly to the undoc parents, and the more children they have, the more they get. There are other loop holes and programs in the system which enables the undocumented to receive full scope care for expensive medical treatment for cancer, AIDS dialysis and easy enrollment to full scope for undoc school children. I work with Spanish speaking Medi-Cal recipients every day, and see the abuse.

It's always good... wrote on Sep 2, 2007 10:57 AM: It's always good and refreshing to listen to the voice of reason as opposed to name calling and invective. Dick Eiden has made a positive contribution to the immigration debate. Personal attacks on him and his organization have no validity. Nor do harmful editorial cartoons that demean any ethnic group. We seem to be making progress in North County. Let's keep going.

To Dick wrote on Sep 2, 2007 11:07 AM:Brian at 10:10 a.m. is correct. Also, I am seeing a lot of hate here for people that don't agree with your views. Oh, what a nasty world we live in when people that don't agree with your (open border) views get attacked.

DESERT BUG wrote on Sep 2, 2007 12:04 PM:Many of these blogs follow Eiden's pedantic recitation of legalisms that are complete non sequiturs. Cut to the heart of the matter and simply look at whether or not unregulated immigration is good or bad or it doesn't matter. Calling those who disagree racists or some other nasty epithet is counterproductive to say the least. Saying that those opposed to illegal immigration are in effect "hateful" and "racist" is juvenile and destroys the credibility of the writer.

To 11:07 AM wrote on Sep 2, 2007 12:26 PM:The column says absolutely nothing about open borders. This "leap" is typical. There's a reason the immigrant-bashers don't stick to the facts.

The truth shall set you free!!!! wrote on Sep 2, 2007 12:36 PM:Thank you Dick Eiden for your commentary. I am glad that the North County Times printed it!! You are amazing and I am so glad that there are actually some intelligent thinkers out there. I thought all was lost but now I have a renewed hope that evil will not win. I have a renewed sense of hope that we are going to win this fight against hate, racism and ignorance. Oh and to the person who made this comment To Dick wrote on Sep 2, 2007 11:07 AM: " Brian at 10:10 a.m. is correct. Also, I am seeing a lot of hate here for people that don't agree with your views. Oh, what a nasty world we live in when people that don't agree with your (open border) views get attacked. " The only thing that is nasty is you and your lies. Where does Mr. Eiden say he wants open borders? Once again you are using lies to incite hate. You loose because we are on to you and your ilk!!!

To CAFRA Comment wrote on Sep 2, 2007 12:38 PM:Nice try, but when was the last time you heard of a landlord prosecuted by the feds for this? The crime you mention involves "knowingly" harboring "in furtherance" of the illegality. Certainly if a landlord or motel knowingly served as a safe house for smugglers or border crossers, they could and should be prosecuted. But most landlords just want good tenants and pursue a "don't ask don't tell" policy. No "knowingly", no "in furtherance of", no crime.

to Desert Bug wrote on Sep 2, 2007 12:41 PM:Eiden didn't say that those opposed to illegal immigration are hateful or racist. He merely said that racism plays a role in the widespread "misinformation".

Pluto wrote on Sep 2, 2007 12:44 PM:Didn't anybody notice the irony in Draft Dodger's comment? "Illegals" are dissed, hunted down, discriminated against, and deported - but they're good enough to serve in our armed forces. Siemper Fi!

RG wrote on Sep 2, 2007 12:58 PM:This article is another desperate attempt to minimize the immigration problem and blur the line between legal and illegal. His attempt to classify all day labor as "casual employment...in a private home.." is ridiculous. And to suggest that emergency health service and public education is hardly worth mentioning? They pay taxes? Sure, sales taxes. Who wouldn't like to pay nothing but sales taxes? They commit fewer crimes than citizens? I invite Mr Eiden to look at the San Diego Sheriff web site's 10 most wanted fugitives. I can save him the two minutes to do this and inform him that 9 out of ten are Hispanic, the other one Iranian, all for very serious crimes. His mention of "church groups" as being honest implies his approval of churches as sanctuaries for illegals thumbing their noses at our laws. And his attempt to label everyone who wants to see laws and common sense returned to this country as racists is really getting old. Has he not heard of LaRaza?

FYI wrote on Sep 2, 2007 1:21 PM:As a retired attorney, Dick Eiden knows a little bit more about the law than all you arm chair lawyers and minute maniacs.

John wrote on Sep 2, 2007 1:23 PM:Dick Eiden Rocks!!! Minutemen rolls (like some hot cross buns).

Young and Sassy Granny wrote on Sep 2, 2007 1:34 PM:The North County Forum is not a Socialist organization. I agree that the first 10 or so posts, written in the middle of the night, were probably from the same hateful individual. Some very pleasant comments since that time. Good.

Silas wrote on Sep 2, 2007 1:56 PM:To the person who called immigrants "draft dodgers" and therefore "criminals". No one has been prosecuted for failure to comply with draft registration since 1986, in part because prosecutions of draft resisters proved counter-productive for the government, and in part because of the difficulty of proving that noncompliance with the law was "knowing and willful". Many people don't register at all, register late, or change addresses without notifying the Selective Service System. This isnt an immigrant issue. Many of the "kids next door" are guilty of the same level of "criminality".

El Guero wrote on Sep 2, 2007 2:07 PM:Sigh. As Dick Eiden says, George Bush isn't a puppet of Mexico. But unwittingly, Dick Eiden is. It's true, as Eiden says, that no one 'can come to the U.S., give birth to a baby and thereby become a citizen or legal resident.' I don't know anyone who claims such a thing. But if Eiden were honest (always a stretch when it comes to liberals discussing illegal immigration), he would be obliged to acknowledge that the recent raids of meatpacking plants in the midwest, and the textile plant in Massachusetts, spared those illegal immigrant parents who were deemed to be 'sole caregivers' of their U.S.-born children. They were granted de facto amnesty by agents of U.S. law enforcement--not something that allowed them to change their immigration status, but something that allowed them to continue to skirt U.S. immigration law. And simply because they gave birth to a U.S.-born 'citizen child.' Eiden can ignore that the current misinterpretation of the 14th Amendment 'Birthriight Citizenship' provision is a corruption of its original intent, but he can't then explain why foreign diplomats who give birth to children on U.S. soil are not also U.S. 'citizen children.'

Skip wrote on Sep 2, 2007 2:09 PM:Just GOOGLE, "Coalition for Peace, Justice and Dignity", and then you will see why this commentary is for what it is. Also check out the other groups this group aligns itself to. SORRY NO CIGAR, NO OPEN BORDERS FOR ME!

To Suzette wrote on Sep 2, 2007 2:11 PM:Duh .......... did it ever occur to you that some people work nights or just like to stay up late. Who made you in charge of the sleep patrol?

Early Posts wrote on Sep 2, 2007 2:12 PM:People seem to keep characterizing the first 10 posts as hateful...but the only thing I notice is interpretations of the law that disfavor illegal immigrants; I don't see anything in those early posts that expresses any negative personal views...just interpretations of the law. I also notice that people keep just bashing the early posts for being hateful, or whatever, but they're not discrediting the SUBSTANCE of what that person said. Those interpretations of the law in the early posts make perfect sense and seem to, quite effectively, discredit Eiden, whose legal knowledge seems dubious at best. As for the early posts being the same person or not, doesn't seem to matter to me. It would be more effective to post separate legal ideas in separate posts than having one huge, long post jumbled with all these separate theories, laws, and interpretations.

ATTENTION, UNDOCUMENTED MALES wrote on Sep 2, 2007 2:14 PM:If you are a man ages 18 through 25 and living in the U.S., then you must register with Selective Service. It’s the law. You can register at any U.S. Post Office and do not need a social security number. When you do obtain a social security number, let Selective Service know. Provide a copy of your new social security number card; being sure to include your complete name, date of birth, Selective Service registration number, and current mailing address; and mail to the Selective Service System, P.O. Box 94636, Palatine, IL 60094-4636. Be sure to register before your 26th birthday. After that, it’s too late! http://www.sss.gov/

Brian wrote on Sep 2, 2007 2:18 PM:It is too bad that racism has been brought into the “unauthorized immigration” debate, or whatever a good politically correct term for it is. I would not call it an “invasion or tsunami”, but the situation is out of control, and 12-20 million undocumented people are alarming to me. Yes, most of these people are good people, but it is not right for anyone to overstay a visa, sneak across the border, or have a baby on US soil and then expect to have legal immigration rights or advantages in the US. For the record, I am married to a Hispanic, speak Spanish, work with the Medi-Cal benefits of the undocumented every day, and have traveled extensively in Latin America. I love the people, but I am against legalizing anyone who has entered illegally or overstayed a visa, and I would be offended if anyone would call me a racist because of my views on this issue.

gofer wrote on Sep 2, 2007 2:27 PM:If one is working with a fake, stolen, or bought SSN, they are committing a felony. I assume most are working this way and are felons. Re-entering the U.S. is a felony. How many have done this? A recent article from N.C. Sheriff's group, reported as much as 40% of the crimes were committed by illegals. You can fluff this stuff all you want, but the truth is always there.

gofer wrote on Sep 2, 2007 2:31 PM:Young and Sassy.....Just how does citing federal statutes hateful? That basically the first 10 posts. Probably because it condemns unlawful behavior and anything that does that is branded "hateful" by those who would turn the Nation into anarchy.

Gofer wrote on Sep 2, 2007 2:37 PM:The whole article is plain OPINION and nothing else and the opinion is blatantly wrong!

Syl wrote on Sep 2, 2007 2:39 PM:After the story of President Bush giving free rein of mexican trucks to the United States, even though most Americans are shocked at the idea. I believe President Bush is a Puppet of mexico.

Roberto wrote on Sep 2, 2007 2:42 PM:Hey what a coincidence; Tina Jillings, is the co-founder of the Vista Coalition for Peace, Justice and Dignity.

Monthly Commentary? wrote on Sep 2, 2007 2:47 PM:This commentary is very similar to a commentary published on July 31st. www.nctimes.com/articles/2007/07/31/opinion/commentary/20_20_477_30_07.txt Are commentaries on 8 CFR 274a.1(h) going to be a regular feature on the commentary page? If so, perhaps future writers should read 8 U.S.C 1324a(a)(1)(B), the law passed by Congress and signed by the President, and should read the Jenkins case, 108 F.3d 195 (9th Cir. 1997). More discussion on the 'domestic service' exception in light of the Jenkins case may be enlightening.

TRY THIS: wrote on Sep 2, 2007 2:47 PM:TRY THIS: Enter Mexico illegally. Never mind immigration quotas, visas,international law, or any of that nonsense. Once there, demand that the local government provide free medical care for you and your entire family. Demand bilingual nurses and doctors. Procreate abundantly. Demand free bilingual local government forms, bulletins, etc. Deflect any criticism of this allegedly irresponsible reproductive behavior with, "It is a cultural USA thing. You would not understand, pal." Keep your American identity strong. Fly Old Glory from your rooftop, or proudly display it in your front window or on your car bumper. Procreate abundantly. Speak only English at home and in public and insist that your children do likewise. Demand classes on American culture in the Mexican school system. Demand a local Mexican driver license. This will afford other legal rights and will go far to legitimize your unauthorized, illegal presence in Mexico. Drive around with no liability insurance and ignore local traffic laws. Procreate abundantly. Insist that local Mexican law enforcement teach English to all its officers. Good luck! You'll be demanding for the rest of time or soon dead. Because it will never happen. It will not happen in Mexico or any other country in the world except right here in the United States, Land of the naive and stupid, idiotic politically correct politicians. If you agree, pass it on. If you don't, go ahead and try the above in Mexico or Iraq."

El Guero wrote on Sep 2, 2007 2:50 PM:Eiden's commentary (and his being a 'retired' lawyer) reminded me of something I read by Peter Brimelow concerning the review of his book Alien Nation by Ira Glasser of the ACLU: '...My theory is that it is partly because of the pervasive influence of lawyers on American public debate. Trial lawyers have a reductionist and pragmatic view of arguments. Their object is to convince the jury, not arrive at the truth.'

Good to be white again wrote on Sep 2, 2007 2:51 PM:As someone who is white I welcome and embrace the diversity of my community, Vista. It is what makes it a wonderful place to live. I encourage the city council to do the same in the redevelopment plans! And thank you, Dick Eiden for finally providing a voice of sanity instead of the usual hatred that leaves me embarrassed to be white and disillusioned about what really makes this country great - diversity!

Please ...... wrote on Sep 2, 2007 2:58 PM:You really need to "GOOGLE"; "North County Forum, Coalition for Peace, Justice and Dignity", and see what kind of agenda they really have, and what groups they align themselves with.

ILLEGAL ENTRY JUST ONE OF MANY CRIMES wrote on Sep 2, 2007 3:15 PM:http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2007/07/15/opinion/commentary/20_19_267_14_07.txt

Skip wrote on Sep 2, 2007 3:20 PM:I just spent an entire day at the Compton Superior court in L.A. County, because my identity was stolen (driver's license). What I witnessed during the afternoon court session was astounding. Case after case of people driving without a license. Most of the people pled guilty, paid the fine, and left. Most of the people also required a translator because they also did not speak English. Even Compton has changed significantly since I grew up.

David wrote on Sep 2, 2007 3:33 PM:The Bush Administration is putting on a big show with its purported “crackdown,” hoping to create a big outcry over enforcing existing laws. Bush is hoping that the public will be sympathetic with the “baby wavers” and stories of the heartbreak of “splitting families.” So there will be a few enforcement operations while making sure that the cameras are rolling. What is the Bush Administration really doing? Publicly, in view of the American people is the “crackdown” we have been begging for. Overtly, the gates are being opened wider by redefining the mission of the Border Patrol. ICE is overwhelmed, undermanned and under funded. Are the “strategists” seeking to so flood the USA that we just throw up our hands and passively succumb to massive amnesty for the world?

David wrote on Sep 2, 2007 3:34 PM:Americans are being killed in our streets and in our homes by illegal aliens. Poisonous and defective products from abroad are imported on a massive scale. (E. G. tires, food, meat, toys, clothing and who really knows what else?) The economy is tanking, gasoline is unaffordable, proper health care is unattainable even by some insured Americans, Americans are losing good paying jobs, families are hurting and there is a herd of nitwits striving to be our next President with no real leadership abilities backed by unpatriotic political machines and “special interest” groups. (Perhaps this is an unfair statement. We do have Tom Tancredo and Duncan Hunter running, but the political machines and the media are opposed to them. They are not among the nitwits). The illegal alien lobby is threatening massive “civil disobedience,” many families are being forced out of their homes, the entire Bush Administration is being run by “dim bulbs” and American foreign policy is incoherent. If I seem to be disappointed, alarmed and pessimistic, it is because I truly am.

To Young and Sassy Granny wrote on Sep 2, 2007 3:39 PM:RE: The North County Forum is not a Socialist organization. >>>> That is funny what you said in your earlier post. After I Googled "the Coalition for Peace, Justice and Dignity", the first thing I thought was OH NO, not another Socialist Group making Commentaries that I know will really annoy me.

Michael wrote on Sep 2, 2007 4:13 PM:This is the most insightful and intelligent commentary I have read in a long time. He seems to know what he is talking about and he seems to be eloquent. He presented his facts and they are credible. All of you who are making all these awful comments about a man just because his opinion differs from your are behaving like immature two year olds throwing a temper tantrum. At the beginning of his commentary I felt the same way but my mind was changed as I continued to read and understand that he was sincere and truthful. I don't know if I am ready to join him yet but I do think further research into stand is worth looking at.

Noella wrote on Sep 2, 2007 4:18 PM:"Real immigrants don't come here and say 'accept my culture, "Immigrants come here to assimilate."

To Roberto wrote on Sep 2, 2007 4:22 PM:SO WHAT!!!! WHAT IS YOUR POINT????

Hate Speech? wrote on Sep 2, 2007 4:47 PM:How not to define hate speech! www.nctimes.com/articles/2007/08/28/opinion/cartoon/thornhill/thornhill082807.txt

Esco WatchDog wrote on Sep 2, 2007 5:55 PM:Thank you, Mr. Eiden. Though the NCT blog commentaries are not representative of many who read the NCT. It's easy to have nothing better to do than spew hateful remarks on a blog where you remain anonymous. Get a job! Or start doing your job instead of wasiting employer resources on the internet! These anti-migrant... will never understand. They don't care about anyone but themselves and they could really care less about facts and human beings. They are a minority in this country but just like to act loud and proud..too bad they do it hiding behing blogs. Seriously people, can you come up with anythi constructive or positive besides name calling? Anger and hate just consumes your poor soul...try church, that may be a good alternative to your souls.

Dell wrote on Sep 2, 2007 5:55 PM:A private property owner is in a different legal position than with HUD owned or regulated housing. HUD, as a public agency, has its own requirements and exemptions than most rental property owner who have neither the right nor the responsiblilty to ask any prospective tenant about their citizenship status. If a property owner does demand proof of status, they may be investigated and fined for violating California state fair housing laws which prohibit discrimination based on ethnicity or national origin. Furthermore, our State Constitution considers privacy as a fundamental right with much the same protection and guarantees as apply to federal free speech rights. These are among the strongest if not the strongest privacy rights of any state and apply to everyone regardless of legal status. To ask a person their status while having no legal requirement to do so is an open invitation to be investigated. For 10 years I supervised investigations of complaints of violations of both federal and state fair housing laws. Often the investigations found clear evidence of discrimination and the penalties were often severe. I would think twice (or more) before asking anything about a person's legal status or for documents that concern that status. You could find yourself in a world of trouble. There are many things to be angry about - I understand that. But as soon as we target each other we target ourselves. You come for them today. Others may come for you tomorrow. Be very careful what you wish for. Dell

Cheers for Mr. Eiden! wrote on Sep 2, 2007 6:37 PM:Thank you, Mr. Eiden, for supplanting myths with facts. I believe reason and sanity will ultimately prevail in this debate, but your letter gives me hope that it will be sooner rather than later.

To : To Roberto wrote on Sep 2, 2007 6:43 PM:Can yous say OPEN BORDERS AT ANY COST. Can you call every American law, "racists" if it does not suit the agenda of Illegal Aliens. Can you attack the police, when they are doing their job...

Your opinion is wrong! wrote on Sep 2, 2007 6:49 PM:Mr. Eiden writes, "There is no 'invasion' or 'tsunami'" You have got to be kidding! Over 20 million people here illegally and it's not an invasion??? Well, what WOULD you call it, Mr. Lawyer??? Attorneys always have a knack for trying to convince us that something that's obvious isn't so. I'm not falling for that one!

Eiden in the Minority wrote on Sep 2, 2007 6:59 PM:If more people shared Mr. Eiden's opinion, Southern California would look like Tijuana in less than 5 years. Thank God he's in the minority!

El Guero wrote on Sep 2, 2007 7:04 PM:I guess that concludes our North County Forum rally for this evening. It could drag on until tommorow, when the paper lands again on our doorsteps, but it seems Mr Eiden's arguments have fizzled out. Nice try, Dick! I wish you better luck next time!

To anti-illegal immigrant wrote on Sep 2, 2007 8:51 AM: wrote on Sep 2, 2007 7:06 PM:You want to "try and change the law to address the facts of immigration today". Unfortunately, that includes giving citizenzhip to people who are here illegally. Sorry, my idea of immigration reform doesn't include rewarding those who break the law. If we change the laws to allow them to come here legally, then fine. Until then, they are law-breakers, plain and simple.

FINALLY, SOMETHING I AGREE WITH wrote on Sep 2, 2007 7:30 PM:RE: Take the recent "anchor babies" discussion, for example. It is simply not true that somebody can come to the U.S., give birth to a baby (U.S. citizen per Constitution), and thereby become a citizen or legal resident. >>>> I have been saying that about Elvira Arellano all along, and I was so glad when she finally got deported.

To : To Roberto wrote on Sep 2, 2007 7:49 PM:re: SO WHAT!!!! WHAT IS YOUR POINT???? >>>>> LOL You know what my point is. Did I hit a sore spot? LOL

Alfonso wrote on Sep 2, 2007 8:03 PM:When you see the organization this writer belongs to and supports, it removes all credence to his commentary and leads to question ANY of his stated FACTS OF LAW. If the NCT really has an interest in enlightening and educating their readers, they should have these subjects written by objective, non-affiliated professionals, not partisan, prejudiced members of one side or the other. The information this man provided is full of untruths and misleading claims.

to Alfonso wrote on Sep 2, 2007 8:43 PM:You say "The information this man provided is full of untruths and misleading claims", but you don't even try to name one, much less disprove anything. Your attempt to discredit Eiden is an obvious cheap trick. We're supposed to disbelieve the article because you say he is partisan, but you don't even prove that, much less disprove anything he said. Why don't you stick to the facts and issues? I think I know.

to Alfonso again wrote on Sep 2, 2007 8:53 PM:Actually, your empty comment proves the author's point. Compare to Dell (5:55pm) and other fact-based comments. You don't even try to address the issues. Shame on you.

HUD Okays Immigration Status Inquires wrote on Sep 2, 2007 9:08 PM:The Federal Government controls immigration issues. Dell should read the HUD opinion: the US Fair Housing Act does not prohibit discrimination by private property owner based solely on a person's citizenship status. www.hud.gov/offices/fheo/library/sept11.cfm Neither does California's Unruh Civil Rights Act. Dell should become familiar with the history of AB 976. Legislative Counsel addressed the question whether a landlord could permissibly decline to rent to a person who was known to be unlawfully present in the country if the Unruh Civil Rights Act were amended to prohibit discrimination on the basis of immigration status. Legislative Counsel suggested that a landlord might indeed be permitted to refuse to rent to such a person without running afoul of a ban on immigration-status discrimination if renting to that person would subject the landlord to criminal penalties under federal law for 'harboring' an alien known to be in the country illegally. (The Federal 'harboring' also covers a reckless disregard for the facts. 8 USC 1324). AB 976 is an attempt to overrule the HUD opinion on an immigration issue related to providing shelter, or harboring illegal immigration. If a landlord does not want to harbor illegal aliens, the landlord has a right to inquire on immigration status. AB 976 is an attempt to remove that right from the landlord and, if passed, may be impermissible state regulation of an immigration issue because it directly contradicts the Federal immigration policy.

Oh, my. wrote on Sep 2, 2007 9:10 PM:Whatever happened to civilized discourse in this country? ... the majority of the dissenting posts are simply personal attacks and hyperbolic screechings. (There were a couple that were genuine disagreements on the law itself, which is totally reasonable.) Socialist? Open Borders? Please, people. Is it possible to actually discuss something like grownups anymore? If you really do want to have a discussion (and I think you really just want to screech), you should try an honest exchange of ideas instead of a barrage of personal insults. What I see on this blog is just ugly, and does nothing to promote your agenda in a positive light.

gofer wrote on Sep 2, 2007 9:26 PM:Being entitled to benefits and actually receiving them are two different things. Most agencies dont' ask about status. It's naive to state people aren't getting benefits they aren't entitled to. Millions are receiving Aid for Dependent Children, routine care in ER, prenatal and postnatal care all paid for by the state. Food stamps and a host of other welfare benefits. The reality is illegal aliens are costing U.S. taypayers billions above what they contribute.

Populist wrote on Sep 2, 2007 10:38 PM:"That's about it" huh. The author should take off his blinders and look at the burden that "people without documents" (i.e., illegal aliens) place on U.S. taxpayers. According to a June 2005 report from FAIR, in California alone, annual illegal immigration education costs amounted to $7.7 billion, or 13% of the state's school budget. According to the California Healthcare Association, Los Angeles County alone has reported spending $350,000,000 A YEAR on health care treatment for illegal immigrants. I could go on, but you get the sad picture.

El Guero wrote on Sep 3, 2007 5:11 AM:My, so much hand wringing from the libs. If FDR were still around he'd probably say something like: 'So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is fear itself; nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror, which paralyzes needed effor to convert retreat into advance.'

Skip wrote on Sep 3, 2007 10:00 AM:I see none of my posts from last night made it past the reviewers or the sleep patrol, so let me try to put it in simple terms. If you go to any police Webpage in California and see who is listed in the most wanted section, you may then disagree with the writers assertion that there is little to no crime being committed by Illegal Aliens. Check the Police webpages for Escondido, and the Sheriff's webpages for San Diego, Los Angeles, and Riverside Counties, and take a look at the "Most Wanted Lists". So who is Racist now?

William wrote on Sep 3, 2007 10:18 AM:In reply to "Populust" who complains about money spent to educate immigrant children amounts to 13% of the state's school budget: that amount is well offset by the food expenses we save because cheap agricultural work by the immigrants makes up 80% of the California agricultural labor.

Bankupt of ideas wrote on Sep 3, 2007 11:04 AM:Claims of racism typically come from those who are bankrupt of ideas or have no logic or facts on which to base their position.

Bankupt of ideas wrote on Sep 3, 2007 12:29 PM:Claims of racism typically come from those who are bankrupt of ideas or have no logic or facts on which to base their position.

Sue wrote on Sep 3, 2007 2:05 PM:As a North County health care provider, I could give numerous examples of immigrant children and families denied services because the condition wasn't immediately "life threatening." I am glad to see the myth of immigrants over using our local rooms debunked.

to Bankrupt of Ideas wrote on Sep 3, 2007 2:16 PM:Denials of Racism usually come from bigots who hide behind denials and justifications to make others and themselves comfortable with their racism.

For Justice wrote on Sep 3, 2007 2:19 PM:Thanks for the tips to google the Coalition for Peace, Justice, and Dignity and the N. C. Forum. I am pleased to know there are groups out there working for Justice for ALL.

Anita wrote on Sep 3, 2007 3:30 PM:As a North County health care provider, everyday I see immigrant children and families using hospital services for their routine healthcare. I'm amazed that Sue could come to make her statement that it isn't so. Our hospital emeergency rooms are overcrowded with such people. Have you ever been to Palomar Hospital?? The FACT is that ILLEGAL immigrants DO over use our hospitals. And Sue, why do you refuse to call them ILLEGAL???

ACTUAL QUOTE FROM THE PRESIDENT OF MEXICO wrote on Sep 3, 2007 4:09 PM:No I am not talking about El presidente Bush! "Where there is a Mexican, there is Mexico". President Felipe Calderon blasted U.S. immigration policies this week and promised to fight harder to protect the rights of Mexicans in the U.S., saying “Mexico does not end at its borders.”

populist wrote on Sep 3, 2007 4:21 PM:Not surprisingly the anti-LEGAL immigration author doesn't mention the many negative aspects of "day laboring" and the harm this causes to communities. Overall, he omits major points, downplays others, and resorts to name calling so typical of the OBL and ethnic pressure groups.

El Guero wrote on Sep 3, 2007 5:15 PM:Sorry, William (10:18), but you're wrong to believe that the cost of educating illegal immigrant children 'is well offset by the food expenses we save because cheap agricultural work by the immigrants makes up 80% of the California agricultural labor.' According to agricultural economist Philip Martin of UC Davis, the economic benefit from immigrant labor to consumers is 'minor.' Martin says that about 7 percent of the price paid by shoppers for strawberries goes to the packers. In return, the public picks up the tab for the workers' medical care and their children's schooling. A 1997 National Academy of Sciences study found that an immigrant without a high-school degree ultimaely costs America $100,000 more than he contributes to the economy. Why do you people in love with the invasion persistently prefer myths to facts?

Either/Or wrote on Sep 3, 2007 8:11 PM:Last May, 25% (109 of 449) of the suspects arrested in Escondido and booked in a county jail, after review by immigration agents, were detained as suspected illegal immigrants. www.nctimes.com/articles/2007/06/24/news/inland/escondido/62307181553.txt Assume Dick Eiden is correct-that illegal aliens 'commit fewer crimes than citizens'. That would mean that more than 25% of the residents of Escondido are illegal aliens (35,250 of 144,000). That cannot be right because 43% of the residents of Escondido are Latinos/Hispanic (60,630 of 141,000), and that would mean that 58% of all Latinos in Escondido were illegal aliens (35,250/60,630). Now lets assume Dick Eiden is wrong. Lets assume that illegal aliens are twice as likely to commit crimes when compared with citizens. That would mean there may be as many as 17,625 illegals aliens residing in Escondido (141,000x25%/2). That would be 12.5% of Escondido's population, and 29% of its Latino population. Either way, 25% or 12.5%, there is a tsunami or increase crime rate.

Ingrid wrote on Sep 3, 2007 9:05 PM:RE: their children get a public education ---- that's about it. >>> The dumbing down of American Schools, and who is going to pay the $30,000 a year per student. I'll give you a hint, it is not the non-tapaying Illegal Aliens. See this story: http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2007/08/31/news/top_stories/22_15_058_30_07.txt

FedUp wrote on Sep 3, 2007 11:11 PM:Hispanic activists say illegal aliens are "oppressed people". Illegals are NOT oppressed!! First, illegals earn about 4 - 6 times what they earn in Mexico. Also, illegals get: - free health care - free K-12 education ... - free food stamps ... - free federal welfare checks ... - WIC (nutrional program for babies) - EIC (Earned Income Tax credits up to $4,200/year) - Low income housing subsidies Opressed?? Give me a break!!

Does anyone wrote on Sep 4, 2007 8:23 AM:know if the State of California has stopped the practice of paying $500.00 per month, per child to illegal aliens? Per Arnie this was to stop in July. I know of lots of single American woman with children, that could use this money more!

Legal Citizen wrote on Sep 4, 2007 2:23 PM:What part of the word "Illegal" do people not understand. If they can read English.....then they should try looking it up in the dictionary. As a tax paying citizen, I say enough is enough. Maybe it's time We The People revoke "El Presidente Booshes" paycheck, then we'll see how quick he changes his mind about opening OUR country up even more for ILLEGALS to abuse OUR benefits, etc.

No Need For Immigration Reform? wrote on Sep 4, 2007 10:13 PM:According to Senator Ted Kennedy, 'It's a jungle on that border, a jungle on that border.' June 7, 2007. That was during the debate on the so-called immigration reform bill. Now we are told 'there is no "invasion" or "tsunami"'. That must mean there is no need for immigration reform!

EWI Crime For Many Years wrote on Sep 5, 2007 1:14 PM:Entry without inspection (EWI) has been a crime for many years. Why the focus on February 2007? EWI is a crime under 8 USC 1325. That law was last amended in 1996. EWI may have been a criminal act since 1952. http://uscode.house.gov/search/criteria.shtml To get an exact history of this law, one would need access to the Statutes-at-Large, which is not available online without access to expensive legal electronic databases. My point is, all illegal border crossers are committing a criminal act, since almost all have entered the country since the 1996 (or 1952) law came into effect.

Home Inspector wrote on Sep 5, 2007 3:12 PM:Come with me for a day inspecting homes from the border to LA. Then tell me what you think about illegal immigration. Those that do not realize that the influx of illegal immigration is a real problem do not get out enough. Controlled legal immigration is what makes this country great. Out of control illegal immigration will be the ruin of every neighborhood and community it we don't wake up and get respect back to our borders and legal immigration. Don't think it will ever be a problem in your neighborhood?? Think again.

Amanda wrote on Sep 5, 2007 3:52 PM:I recently went to graduate school and I can tell you that if I had attended class and chosen to retain my viewpoints, no matter what, I would have lost out on a valuable education. Look at the links provided here, check facts. Talk to lawyers who know the law, all of this should be done before bashing or criticizing. When citing the law, state a specific portion/section of it that you believe says a certain thing that defines your point. Then, offer a rebuttal based on facts and state why you believe the facts are legitimate. This is what one must do when writing a school paper and it is part of the process of learning. Give others an opportunity to debate the SPECIFIC point you bring up and see how they do. Don't just give a link to a general law. Discuss specifics. I'd like to actually come away from a forum like this one feeling that I learned something. Instead I am confused. I feel like the open mind I have has been almost wasted on the attitudes herein. Let's promote a free-exchange of ideas, supported by facts, and we'll all be true patriots, supporting democracy.

Reardon wrote on Sep 5, 2007 4:58 PM:Amanda: Alas, as a recent graduate student may I inform you that, as a retired professor of graduate studies, you still have a lot to learn. Citing the law is useless – let me give you ax prime example from our prime legal document…the First Amendment. “Congress shall make no law …or abridging the freedom of speech,…” You don’t think the Congress has not “abridged” the freedom of speech in the various efforts to restrain political contributions (McCain-Feingold), and government-sponsored schools have not abridged speech through various “hate speech” rules, and then there are laws against pornography? What part of “NO” do you think the “law” does not understand? Then there are the various charitable expenses of the federal government, when James Madison, one of the prime authors of the Constitution, wrote of using tax money for charitable use: “James Madison, the "Father of the Constitution" wrote a letter of dissaproval of a $15,000 appropriation for French refugees: "I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents." And if that is not enough, there is not sufficient printers ink for me to discuss the invalid use of the Interstate Commerce clause of the Constitution, suffice to say that In the ‘30s the Supreme Court held that a farmer violated the Interstate Commerce provision in that he over-planted his federally limited fields. He said it was to feed his own cattle. The Supreme Court held that IF he had not over-planted his fields, then he MIGHT have bought grain for his cattle, and that grain MIGHT have come across state lines – therefore the farmer violated the Interstate Commerce provision. Basically, a decision based on three qualifiers in a single sentence. Really tortured interpretation of the plain English of the Constitution. Subsequently, Lester Maddox was found to be in violation of the Interstate Commerce provision because even though his small eatery was not on an interstate road and he did not advertise in interstate newspapers, he was engaged in interstate commerce because his salt and ketchup came across interstate lines. Under this interpretation, we are all engaged in interstate commerce because the soap we use, our dental fillings…Our laws are being interpreted to mean that black is white, and citing them is now useless.

The US Government wrote on Sep 6, 2007 12:49 PM:The government last week released its annual statistical report on poverty and household income. As usual, we -- meaning the public, the media, and politicians -- missed a big part of the story. It is this: The stubborn persistence of poverty, at least as measured by the government, is increasingly a problem associated with immigration. As more poor Hispanics enter the country, poverty goes up. This is not complicated, but it is widely ignored. The standard story is that poverty is stuck; superficially, the statistics support that," but it's not.

Roberto1 wrote on Sep 7, 2007 4:33 AM:Good to be white again wrote on Sep 2, 2007 2:51 PM: " As someone who is white I welcome and embrace the diversity of my community, Vista. It is what makes it a wonderful place to live. I encourage the city council to do the same in the redevelopment plans! And thank you, Dick Eiden for finally providing a voice of sanity instead of the usual hatred that leaves me embarrassed to be white and disillusioned about what really makes this country great - diversity! " REPLY: It must be difficult for those who have no realistic solutions to the illegal immigration problem and cannot figure out how to get along with neighbours. Excellent comment and editorial.

To Good to be white again wrote on Sep 2, 2007 2:51 PM wrote on Sep 7, 2007 10:02 PM:I don't feel that "diversity" means having some people who follow the law and some people who don't follow the law. Diversity is great when everyone has a common respect of the law, including our immigration laws.

anotherview wrote on Oct 8, 2007 12:06 AM:Illegal aliens have no right to live and work in America. Look at solutions to resolve the matters of illegal immigration and the illegal aliens now resident. On August 10th, the White House issued a fact sheet for enforcement of existing federal immigration law, without amnesty for illegal aliens. This enforcement will stop unscrupulous employers from hiring illegal aliens. Minus a job, the illegal aliens will self-deport (at their own expense) -- no national roundup needed. Without the lure of a job, the foreign nationals will not illegally migrate to America. By enforcement of the law, America can free itself of illegal aliens, and will prosper all the more.-