First in wins wrote on Sep 16, 2007 9:52 AM:For all those people who moved into houses that were built AFTER the airport, you all knew that it was there and that there was a potential for it to grow. Just because you paid way too much for a house too close to an airport is no reason to try and close the only reasonable relef valve to Lindbergh Field. As the article points out, when McClellan-Palomar Airport was acquired (It was built years before SD County purchased it) some 50 years ago (that would be in the late 1950's), the nearest large structure was the soaring smokestack of the Encina Power Station, several miles away on the coastline. We old-timers have always known the airport would grow as the area around it grew. We also have for years asked, "why are all these houses being built so close to tha airport?, and why would anybody want to buy a house so close to an airport?" So, if you consider it unsafe to have an airport so close to your house, or too noisy to have all those planes operating at the airport: MOVE! It is a free country and nobody FORCED you to buy the house next to the airport! That was your choice. So, make the next choice in your life: move to a quieter place and leave our airport alone!

train station guy wrote on Sep 16, 2007 11:11 AM:yes! I want more planes! there are some great places in the open fields at the end of the runway behind the commercial buildings off Aston Ave where I can go with my shopping cart and sleep all I want. ... The more planes there are the more dumpsters they bring and places to dive for food and stuff. Bring it on!

Ask wrote on Sep 16, 2007 11:39 AM:I agree, your fault for moving to a house next to the airport. Kinda like the dorks in Del Mar who moved next to train tracks and are now complaining. Tough cookies.

av8r wrote on Sep 16, 2007 11:47 AM:I just don't get it. That airport has been there for 50+ years and the greedy developers have built in on it over the past decade and these moronic people have been buying it up KNOWING it's there and think they have room to complain????? That's like complaining everytime a golf ball smashes through your living room and you live on a golf course. DEVELOPMENT and EXPANSION happens people! If the runway expansion does happen all that will do is promote more regional jet aircraft which are QUIETER than the low flying prop jobs that currently dominate that traffic pattern. Jets generally fly straight in approaches in a low power setting(quieter than a turbo prop) and depart straight out over the Pacific not 50' over your rooftops to the north or south like some of you ignoramus' people insist. Regional Airline Jet service to San Fran, Denver, Salt Lake, Portland, or Seattle would all greatly benefit the region...Get it through your thick skulls or move if you don't agree. Rant over.

TailSpin wrote on Sep 16, 2007 12:06 PM:If we get enough hard working,honest, family,landowner,American tax paying citizens together....to fight the noise,pollution,safety and airport sprawl the airport problem could be kept at its current size.

What? wrote on Sep 16, 2007 12:54 PM:Historical detail correction. The "soaring smoke stack" wasn't built until the mid seventies when they added unit 5 to the power plant. So the only large structure near the airport when the county bought it was the power plant without the smoke stack. Here is a NCT article refrencing it's age. http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2007/02/10/news/top_stories/23_09_582_9_07.txt I also found a doc on SDG&E's website that says unit 5 came online in 1978. The funny thing is that some pilots came out against adding the smoke stack saying it would be a flight hazzard. Kind of like home owners saying the airport is a danger to their homes. Personally I think anyone who bought a house within 5 miles of the airport are out of luck. What did they think that the airport was going to get smaller and have fewer flights?

Bring on the jumbo jets wrote on Sep 16, 2007 2:15 PM:Personally, I'm hoping that Walmart opens its doors soon in Carlsbad. Just think, you can shop for hours and shield yourself from all the airport noise at the same time! The justification for spending a gazillion dollars on my cookie-cutter tract home all depends on Walmart opening before the increase in air traffic. This is looking like a win-win situation folks.

Dan wrote on Sep 16, 2007 5:17 PM:We all lose if customs is brought in to handle anything from Mexico.

Airline Captain wrote on Sep 16, 2007 5:21 PM:Knowing full well where the airport was, we simply used our heads and bought in Encinitas. We were smart enough to study the neighborhood, and NOT buy in one that had an existing condition that we might one day object to. Unfortunately, the complainers did not put sufficient effort into looking at existing and potential neighborhood nuisances.

Once again wrote on Sep 16, 2007 7:57 PM:More whiners complaining about airplane noise when they are just sore because some real estate agent sucker'ed 'em. Look at the Bressi Ranch development, they were practically hiding the airport notices in the sales office even. Come on, that place has a spectacular view of Palomar Airport. You can't tell me while they were out viewing their lots they didn't see a very active airport there. Jet Noise, the Sound of Freedom.

Airport Man... wrote on Sep 16, 2007 9:38 PM:The airport is fine as it is... Bringing in commercial airlines is a different issue (they are much larger and louder)... No one ever expected CLD to start increasing their commercial flights. I don't really care, but what really needs to happen is a larger airport needs to be built to take the stress off of SAN. It's funny, all of the people complaining (non-local residents) sound jealous... Like they wish they could afford a house in Carlsbad or something. Many things are out of the public control... one day, you too might be in a compromising situation that you never expected (if you can ever go to college and get a real job). Unexpected things happen. I seriously doubt the Carlsbad is going to allow this to happen, but who knows. Personally, I've flown out of CLD and it's great. Very convenient and quick. I flew to China from CLD, only 15 minutes from my house.

Move Again wrote on Sep 16, 2007 10:55 PM:You knew it was an airport when you moved into your home. An airport, that means planes of various sizes. Lots of houses on the market so move again and check out the area for planes, trains and automobiles.-

D Man wrote on Sep 16, 2007 11:43 PM:Jealous of Carlsbad? You're kidding, right. I own and work in Carlsbad. I remember buying in 2000 and basically paying cash for my 3000 sq ft home after selling my townhouse in Danville(Bay Area). Compared to high-end cities like Danville or Del Mar, Carlsbad is low rent. Been to the mall near 78 and El Camino lately. Yikes! I fly out of CLD on international flights (via LAX) several times a year and always wondered when they would step up the service to other cities (SFO, LAS, DEN, etc.). Time to move forward and dismiss the whiners...-

Pazook wrote on Sep 17, 2007 4:29 AM:I, too, have a problem with airport noise. The incessant whining of late coming property owners reaches ridiculous levels. Could the County do a study?-

Simon says: wrote on Sep 17, 2007 7:05 AM: Once upon a time, some thirty plus years ago, San Marcos and Carlsbad were competing for the county airport to be placed in their city. That's right, each city had an airport. Carlsbad's was the present Palomar Airport in that city, and the San Marcos airport was what is now a commercial and industrial area directly across from Palomar College. It was between that college and what is now State highway 78. (Point of interest: I remembered seeing it there and on a trip to UPS that is in that area in San Marcos, I ask the lady if she knew that an airport had been there. She said no, but that the building that UPS is presently in used to be an airplane hanger.) the Board of Supervisors selected the Palomar site to be the county airport after Howard Hughes bought property at the airport for his helicopter test site, thereby eliminating San Marcos. Big money speaks. Thirty six years ago I bought my present home. Having spent the previous twenty years in aviation I was very aware of the trouble with living under or near an airport approach zone. There was none at that time near my home. Some fifteen plus years later I read that big changes were being made at Palomar airport. So looking at a map I found that if larger aircraft were to be flying into Palomar airport I would be very close to the approach flight path. I went to Palomar airport and talked to the Airport Manager. he assured me that only private owned aircraft would be allowed at Palomar and they would be under strict noise abatement approach rules. However, big money talks and it seems the County Board of Supervisors listen - intently. So, Palomar Airport was improved and expanded over the years. Commercial airlines are presently operating out of there - big money talks - and it would seem that the Board of Supervisors could care less what the people want. Palomar airport will be improved, and larger, louder, commercial jets will operate from there regardless of what the people say. Big money talks and the board listens and the people end up exhausted from there efforts to keep their homes free of noise pollution. Yes big money talks - you don't see aircraft approach paths anywhere near Rancho San Fe do you, when there is ample room for a new airport near there. Big money talks - if you don't have it the Board of Supervisors will not listen. Don't waste your time - and vote.

Ann wrote on Sep 17, 2007 7:45 AM:Buying a house near an airport and then complaining about the airport truly sounds like minus IQ. Besides, it is a safety issue. Longer runways, safer flights. Get used to it people. You got what you paid for.

More Flights? Of Course wrote on Sep 17, 2007 9:44 AM:Airport Man says "No one ever expected CLD to start increasing their commercial flights." Sorry, but I bet there are plenty of people that did expect this, and bought houses someplace else.-

SawItComing wrote on Sep 17, 2007 10:27 AM:When I lived in Carlsbad, driving south on El Camino Real at Palomar Airport Road (first clue there was an airport there, folks!), we saw acre upon acre of field surrounding the airport. Then the dozers started to level, and the tract homes went in, one development after another. I remarked to my wife, "How long before the folks living in those houses start complaining about the plane noise?" Yeah, you sign a doc at closing that says "I know there's an airport nearby." But then, when you move in, you feel indignant that, besides an airport, there are actual planes, with engines that make noise. No sympathy, folks. That airport has been there for a long long time and you haven't. Learn to live with the choices you've made.

Unreal wrote on Sep 17, 2007 1:00 PM: These ignorant homebuyers are the same type of people that are suing the tobacco companies because they are getting cancer after smoking all their lives. It's no wonder that when I bought a fan belt for my car recently, the label on the package says "turn engine of before installing fan belt" GET A CLUE PEOPLE!!!!!!

Rear View Mirror wrote on Sep 17, 2007 1:19 PM:Yup, with each passing day it looks like the "Irvine Template" for Carlsbad's growth. Too bad really. I wouldn't be surprised to see Batiquitos Lagoon open to watersports in the future -- you know, to be a relief-valve for the Agua Hedionda Lagoon.

Juneboarder wrote on Sep 17, 2007 1:23 PM:Everything has its positives and negatives, but think about it. With the crazy amounts of people that have moved to San Diego (North County) in the last 10-20 years, we need to move forward with more flights somewhere. If you have a problem with noise, then move further east; it's not going to get any less crowded here at the beach.-

Sam wrote on Sep 17, 2007 4:00 PM:As a Soutwest Carlsbad resident for over twenty years, the major complaints about the airport seem to be from all these "new" homeowners since the 90's. With all of the disclosers that we did not have in the seventies, we knew there was airport noise. In the 90's there are all of these disclosures that homeowners get prior to the purchase of a new home that indicate there is airport noise and guess what, those people are the biggest complainers. For all of you newcommers, get a life and move out of Carlsbad. Carlsbad will be a lot nicer if all of you complainers moved out and we keep our airport to help our economic growth.

to Simon wrote on Sep 17, 2007 7:32 PM:Howard Hughes died over 30 years ago. He purchased the property near Palomar Airport over 50 years ago. So, your history seems a bit out of place when you talk about your purchasing property 36 years ago (1971). By that time the San Marcos Airport was closed. Also, as you noted, San Marcos Airport was located between what is now Palomar Colloge, and HWY78. Too small an area for a reasonable sized airport. And, the typical wind pattern in the area doesn't support an airport the size of Palomar, not to mention the hills so close by. No, SD county chose Palomar for good reasons, and have planned to build it into a larger facility for many years as well. Yes, big money talks, but not as you say. RSF has no airport or flight paths because there are NO locations suitable for an airport without doing significant amounts of grading, and there are no access roads to the areas either. Palomar Airport has always been close to El Camino Real (the old inland route) and HWY 101 (Coastal Route) and the newly built (only planned at the time of county purchase of Palomar) Interstate 5. It has always been an ideal location for an airport, but the lack of money has prevented its more rapid growth. Now, with the help of all those huge property tax revenues from all thsoe homes built in the area, there will be plenty of "Big Money" to enlarge the facility and achieve the original plans for the County's regional airport.

VNAP Compliance Please wrote on Sep 17, 2007 9:00 PM:Residents who moved into 5 mi radius agreed to disclosures that claimed this was a "ma & pop" hobby airport" (many local small planes have already been displaced in favor of bigger jets). They were given diagrams of unacceptable noise levels within apx 1-2 mile range and proclaimed broad compliance with the VNAP. Most homes now affected are not within this range. This is what was agreed to, and is all that residents are asking for. Since, the airport continues to grow (this year alone over 10%), VNAP is casually complied with, Quiet hours are disregarded to the tune of 10-20 flights per night, and the quaint "Village by the Sea" is becoming Carlsbad Metro. More airtraffic will also bring more congestion on our streets and interstates that already experience gridlock. There are ranting residents, but nothing compared to the above riot. Most residents simply want what they agreed to on their disclosures...and what is supposed to be in place per PAAC and the FAA. This includes a higher degree of compliance with arrival and departure patterns and Quiet Hours (no fly between 10PM-7AM)prescribed by the FAA and PAAC. They must have recommended these for a good reason. Secondly, residents want to limit the growth. Increased volume of flights brings increased risk, as evidenced by 3 tragic accidents in just the last 18 months. Increased noise and safety over homes is not good for any community. No one wants the airport to go away, but most residents in the four surrounding cities would like limited growth and compliance with the existing guidelines that have been in place for many years. How can we accomplish that to make everyone happy?-

NOT THE POINT wrote on Sep 18, 2007 10:49 AM:OK, how old are you folks? You all sound like a bunch of mudslinging school children. Most people that are opposing the airport expansion have valid points, however, I believe that there is a happy medium. IF all of the planes just followed the correct flight path, then there probably wouldn't be an issue, but most of the small planes aren't following this path, choosing instead to take the short route over the homes. Funny, how it seems that this increased AFTER the golf course in Carlsbad opened???? Safety is the concern, over noise. Flying below 1500 feet, which most of the twin engines do, is a hazard to everyone. It creates noise and safety hazards. The jets aren't such an issue as they seem to follow the patterns. The mudslingers, obviously have a hidden agenda, maybe profit??? And to "we were here first?" Talk to the Indians of the US. They may have a thing or two about that adage. Grow up, discuss and come to a resolution. Stop the mudslinging and name calling. Geez!

Wade wrote on Sep 18, 2007 4:33 PM:A real airport improvement would have the desired result for both anti and pro airport camps. It's clear the airport doesn't have the land to become another Lindbergh. Not even close so lets not get carried away with fears of massive jets and big increases in noise. The questions should be can the airport be made safer and not noisier? Can airplanes getting off the ground quicker and easier mean they make less noise? Can the aircraft the airlines propose to operate if the runway were longer actually be quieter than the prop planes they fly now? Can or should the airlines agree to a curfew in exchange for access to Palomar? Does the long term changing uses of the airport from hobby to corporate/commercial possibly mean fewer local flights and thus fewer arrivals and departures? Who can we trust to answer these questions? I don't know but maybe just like all the growth pressure in our community it can be managed through open negotiation and thoughtful discourse.

RobertM wrote on Sep 18, 2007 10:39 PM:Of course the airport should have fewer flights as more houses are built in the area and the population grows. Just like the freeways should have lanes removed and the number of cars restricted so homeowners who buy houses next to the freeways won't be bothered by the noise.

concerned public health professional wrote on Sep 18, 2007 10:53 PM:Blaming the victims is unfair. You may need your neighbors' support some day. We should all be very concerned with safety and health issues, in order to give more than "lip service" to valuing human life. Noise pollution studies indicate a greater risk for strokes and heart attacks. Mandatory - not voluntary- "noise" restrictions are needed. Enforcement of existing "guidelines" is not happening now. Most complaints are about frightening late night flights when no controllers are present. I was told that it is not economically feasible to staff the control tower late at night. (Life is cheap?). Can we expect to not be lied to again by officials, who are now stating that they "need to expand the runway for safety"? Twenty five years ago, I also was assured by airport officials before I bought my home in La Costa.I was never given a disclaimer, but saw that Palomar Airport sign and did due diligence. That there have been only 3 fatal flights here in the last year or so, is amazing. Of course some planes were "an accident waiting to happen" and crashed elsewhere. I have read of 6 year old and amateur pilots being permitted to fly.Commercial pilots must pass a medical exam but any post cardiac patient with a private plane can fly over our homes. EVERY plane needs to provide proof of safety inspection- NOT JUST RANDOM RAMP CHECKS. Please vote. ASK QUESTIONS. My county supervisor, Horn, was more concerned about his problems with using campaign contributions and his Carlsbad house perk for a female associate than the airport problems, when I asked for his help. Could the reason that Bilbray seldom visits his Carlsbad "residence" be due to the lack of sleep caused midnight flights? Why did the Carlsbad City Council allow schools, homes, and workplaces to be built so close to the airport? Airport, health, and safety officials, and caring Carlsbad residents, repeatedly pleaded with the City Council to not issue permits there. Loss of lives and quality of life should be on their cons ciences. Best government money can buy?

Who are you kidding? wrote on Sep 19, 2007 10:23 AM:First of all, most lear jets are louder than a 737 so get off the larger aircraft means more noise. The issue is how you expand the runway to the west over a cliff by about 2,000-fet due to terrain east of the airport. Good luck.

To "concerned public health professional" wrote on Sep 20, 2007 9:35 AM:Actually, every private pilot and above does get routine medical exams. They come from an aviation medical examiner (look it up). And every plane also gets a "safety inspection", it's called an annual inspection (federal regulation). Rental/commercial aircraft are inspected even more frequently (every 100 hours less). And, as I recall, in the 3 fatal crashes you mention, only the aircraft was damaged and the crew/passengers killed, no one has ever crashed into someone's house or hit anyone on the ground. It's unfortunate that these 3 did occur, but even so, how many more people die on north county's freeways each month? As a "health care professional" when was the last time you saw a patient injured or a person killed in a plane crash? Or the last time you had a patient who was just walking along and got hit by a plane. Frankly, if safety is the concern of all these homeowners and others who complain about the airport being a "hazard" look at the stats, there's nothing substantial to support it, it's just a kneejerk reaction. And to the people who thought Palomar was a "hobby" airport, a runway that's 4700ft long is NOT just a "hobby" airport runway (unless your "hobby" is flying small jets). Per the county website, the runway was 4700ft long in 1961, long before almost all of you bought anything.

RobertM wrote on Sep 20, 2007 12:26 PM:To concerned public health: You are not a victim. You are someone who bought a house near an airport to save some money and now wants others to pay for his mistake. Well, having made a mistake you can either correct it by moving to another house not near an airport or you can live with it. Maybe you'll learn from this and make better choices in the future.

Outside of airport fly zone wrote on Sep 20, 2007 6:11 PM:I bought my home outside of the airport fly zone (Class E) but in the past two years there are many very low flying jets approaching CLD past 10:30. If you bought inside of the Class E airspace the planes can fly right over your houses. Read the laws and have the county supervisors declare a noise problem like in Orange County to have it changed. The simple problem is that the airport and it's patrons have become arrogant and are now bad neighbors to everyone because there are no penalties for disregarding the flight rules.

Appalled wrote on Sep 21, 2007 11:23 AM:I am just appalled at the tone of the above discussion. There is no spirit of cooperation here. Sensible residents do not want to have the airport go away, and understand it is a value to the community. Sensible aviators should also realize that the residents are the very people who are their customers and taxpayers who pay for the airport and their very presence holds their success as passengers and as employees of the businesses that use the airport. Since the population has grown haphazardly (another story - ask city and county officials how that happened - there is plenty of blame to go around) and the airport footprint cannot grow, we all need to be rational and come up with solutions on how we can co-exist in peace. PAAC and the county have the responsibility to provide a leadership role in promoting the existing VNAP guidelines that are based on many reports, studies and the FAA. Public officials have a duty to represent the public interest. Perhaps new energy and focus on educating and encouraging the pilots on the value of the community, that they serve, may provide a sense of pride and good citizenry in supporting the VNAP guidelines. How hard would it be for the aviation community to abide? Are pilots taking the position that they will fly where and when they want just to spite residents and prove it is their right to do so without being penalized and is simply a financial decision? There are 300 airport employees, many of whom must feel terribly threatened to act out so vocally and ill-mannered (just read above comments), and well over 10,000 local residents with varying levels of discomfort with the situation. 75% of the issues would go away if the VNAP was complied with 95% of the time. I would hate to think that there are more than 5% of the air operations that must be diverted from VNAP due to safety issues. If that is the case, there really needs to be a new evaluation of the existing traffic. I applaud those pilots that do make a consistent and conscientious effort to follow the guidelines for arrivals and departures and altitudes. It does make a huge difference. Thank you. What part of following VNAP is so difficult? Further, the good faith that would be built by compliance would also build more trust within the community, and possibly open doors to some of the plans for growth that the airport would like to see take place. It takes a lot of effort to make the complaints and come to meetings on something you have little interest in. It is only because there is a true problem-safety and quality of life concerns- that people do make the effort. If all the 10,000 immediate residents moved out of the community, a new set would come in and start the rally all over again. If the airport shut down the community would loose a big asset. Why not work for a win-win situation? Neither the airport or the residents will be going away, so let?s start some remediation of the situation, including representatives from both sides, and look for solutions together. PLEASE!-

KFLYER wrote on Sep 29, 2007 7:27 PM:Ok EVERYONE...listen, This issue is not going to get resolved if people continue to point fingers. Just to clarify something, there is no such things as a "Fly Zone"...even in the middle of the arizona desert, there is airspace. There is also airspace over New York City. There are 7 classes of airspace...the airspace at palomar is Class Delta airspace, then it has 2 Class Echo extentsions to accomodate instrument aircraft (clouds, bad weather, etc.) Now, all that airspace represents is that any airplanes entering that airspace must have radio communication with the Control Tower. Anywhere outside of that airspace, anyone can fly. People from Fallbrook, Ramona, Military aircraft, or even Life Flight who is saving people's lives. If they are outside of Palomar's airspace, they are not required to be in contact with Palomar for legal reasons. So what i'm saying, is that don't try talk about things you don't understand. I'm a pilot, at palomar airport. You can say, that i might be bias, but i also live underneath the left downwind leg of palomar airport. So, i also have my own complaints concerning noise. One of the most interesting complaints i have discovered is that people complain about The Mercy Air helicopters flying low at night. I have a question for everyone. If Palomar was closed to all aircraft at night, and you were in a car crash needing to be medivac'd to a hospital so you can live, you would probably die...Mercy air flies training missions also, but in the middle of the night, i'm sure they would rather be sleeping than bothering citizens for no reason. If they are flying low, it is because they are saving someones life. Just imagine if you were in that helicopter, or you family or friends were in that helicopter...How selfish can someone be. Also people have been using the deaths of people from recent accidents to help their noise issues. I think that it is selfish once again. Airplanes break, crash, and also land safely. There are more car crashes than airplanes crashes per cars a day, month, year...so you tell me, what is the safer means to travel. Haven't you realized that people have died, and it may have been due to a bad pilot, adverse weather or even something going wrong with the airplane or runway. Let's compare this to a car...You can have a bad driver, bad weather, or the car or freeway/road can be bad...also, what about the people that live near freeways. I don't seem to hear them complain...why do you? ... This was more less a rant, and i have more to say on this subject. I have delt with being a pilot, a resident of carlsbad, and i've worked with the county of san diego on the management end. I have seen all the perspectives, and i can truely say, that the noise complainers or being a bit selfish, as well as the pilots. All the county is doing, is doing what it was intended to do...manage the airport, and make it a sucsess...

Pauline wrote on May 6, 2008 3:49 AM:Well you now guys i have a project about this subject and im LOST! What i need to do is HOW To COnvience people that that they r wrong and the airport is 100% sure this is HARd! huh well 10x again i think your all right but as i said i need to do they asked me for and BTW i wanna add smtg that everywhere we find something to complain about human beings like to complain soo Stop all this and TAke it easy!