San Marcos ponders minidorm crackdown
By: COLLEEN MENSCHING - North County Times | ∞
SAN MARCOS - Billie Judd lives four miles from Cal State San Marcos, but she's just a few doors away from what city officials call a "minidorm" - a single-family home leased to three or more people, usually college students sharing expenses.
"We're in our 80s, and my husband does not even want to think about moving, but I'd move tomorrow," she said, talking about her angst over occasionally loud parties, trash in the street and parking congestion at the neighboring house.
It's not just the Judds who will be dealing with new neighbors. Cal State San Marcos has 9,000 students now but expects 20,000 by 2020. The Palomar Community College District, with its main campus in San Marcos, also anticipates substantial growth over the next 10 years.
But neither school provides significant campus housing, forcing students who want to live near campus to compete in the San Marcos real estate market. And plans for on-campus expansion fall well short of anticipated growth.
City officials said there are about 20 mini-dorms in the city today, with more possible in the future as enrollment numbers increase.
This month, the City Council is expected to consider a proposed ordinance aimed at regulating rental houses such as the one on the Judds' street, but the issue does not appear on the agenda for Tuesday's council meeting.
Defining a minidorm
The proposed ordinance addresses buildings in which three or more rooms are leased to three or more people, and it would regulate where and under what conditions such leases could be granted.
Anyone violating the ordinance could face heavy fines, though city officials have said compliance, not revenue, is the point of the proposal.
Some residents and council members have questioned whether the proposed ordinance would be more effective than existing nuisance laws and whether it would target the intended people.
Karl Schwarm, head of the department that handles code enforcement in San Marcos, said the city has used existing ordinances to curb neighborhood issues such as garages being turned into apartments.
However, he said that there isn't an ordinance to address every problem connected to several adults living in one home.
"The Judds' neighborhood is a perfect example of why we need this (proposed) ordinance," Schwarm said.
When asked about disturbances in the neighborhood, sheriff's Lt. Phil Brust said the department had responded to complaints of loud parties at the Judds' neighbors' house three times since November.
"They've all been party calls," Brust said, adding that officers issued verbal warnings but did not issue citations.
Attempts to contact the residents at their home in recent weeks were unsuccessful.
Students bunk up
Closer to the university, 18-year-old Cal State San Marcos freshman Chris Reale said he lives with three other students in a three-bedroom, $3,000-per-month condominium. It's not a detached, single-family home, but some people might consider it a mini-dorm.
Next door are five female Cal State San Marcos students. Neither of those condos has been the subject of noise complaints, Reale said.
Reale, from Ventura County, said his application for a spot in the school's University Village Apartments was turned down, prompting his parents to buy the Savona complex condo he lives in now.
"If the ordinance passes, I don't think the community would be able to handle it because there's no space," Reale said. "The reason there are mini-dorms is because there's not enough places to live."
Even if Reale had been accepted into on-campus housing as a freshman, he may have had to find a new place to live for his sophomore year. That's because more than two-thirds of the university's 625 beds are reserved for first-time campus residents.
And though some people may consider Reale's condo a mini-dorm, city officials said they're not sure whether the proposed ordinance would apply to complexes such as the one Reale lives in or the Prominence Apartments adjacent to the university.
Cops and apartments
The 568-unit Prominence complex on Twin Oaks Valley Road is only separated from the university by a fence, making it a hot spot for students - and for sheriff's deputies.
"The main people we were having issues with were the young-adult age group," said sheriff's Sgt. Glenn Giannantonio. Party calls account for more than all other calls combined at the complex, he said.
"We've addressed it as much as possible. We've met with the property management company and explained to them what they need to do to help us help them make their community better," Giannantonio.
Giannantonio said managers were cooperative and that, from June to December 2007, there were fewer party complaints compared to the same period last year.
But complaints have not been eliminated and concerns about officer safety mean as many as four cars may be dispatched to incidents at Prominence, draining the department's resources, he said.
City Attorney Helen Peak said she does not know if the proposed ordinance would apply to the Prominence complex, which was approved under what is known as a "specific plan," and is not one of the residential zones designated by the city's general plan and covered by the ordinance.
Two per bedroom, plus one
Prominence manager Chris Songon said leases there allow "two people per bedroom, plus one," meaning the complex accepts as many as five people in one two-bedroom unit. Songon said it's possible some people sublet in units without being on the lease, but she doesn't think it occurs enough to be a serious problem.
Songon said courtesy patrols help prevent parties from getting out of hand. In one case, partiers leaving the complex gave her the name of the people they were going to see next and it was someone that had been kicked out of her complex for unruly behavior.
"They said, 'They've got a house now," and I'm thinking, 'My gosh, those poor neighbors,' " Songon said.
Eventually, more students will be able to live at Cal Sate San Marcos, but not many more.
The university is conducting a feasibility study for a new dorm building that would house up to 900 students, according to Cal State San Marcos officials.
Opening that building in 2010 is a best-case scenario, though. Any additional housing is much further off and would still accommodate only a small percentage of the 25,000-student population that is the university's goal.
"We know that the university is going to expand and we anticipate that our enrollment will grow," said university spokeswoman Kaine Thompson. "It is very important to the university to maintain good relations with our neighbors and the city of San Marcos."
To that end, student and administrative representatives have scheduled meetings with Mayor Jim Desmond.
"We're still working on the policies that are going to implement this ordinance," Desmond said.
Contact staff writer Colleen Mensching at (760) 739-6675 or cmensching@nctimes.com.
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Possible Solution wrote on Jan 5, 2008 9:23 PM:Would it be possible for residents who feel their quality of life is being affected by rowdy students living in these dorms to contact university officials about discipline? After all, if these students were to cut up and act out in a school sanctioned dorm, there would be consequences. Perhaps the dorms could be certified by Cal State, and brought under their umbrella of what is thought of as proper conduct? Lawyers are welcome to respond.
Close Cal State wrote on Jan 5, 2008 10:15 PM:Why don't we just shut down Cal State SM and turn it into a museum or mall? Seems like its nothing but trouble now and in the future when it triples the number of students. Triple traffic, triple trouble. Who's idea was it anyway to bring this boondoggle to San Marcos. Palomar college is a great college and is more than enough!
matt wrote on Jan 5, 2008 10:41 PM:Cal state San Marcos has plans to become a 30k student university. this is'nt going away. get used to it or move.
New idea wrote on Jan 5, 2008 11:36 PM:Has the university thought about purchasing some of these condos in the area and using them as student housing. This way the students would also be under the rules and supervision of the university which would also cut down on unruly and irresponsible behavior. Other universities have done it. Especially Freshman should be under closer supervision anyway. It has worked for other universities and cities so why not here? I think there are other possibilities that could be a win win situation for everyone. San Marcos and Cal State, think outside the box!
Concerned Democrat wrote on Jan 6, 2008 2:40 AM:"The proposed ordinance addresses buildings in which three or more rooms are leased to three or more people, and it would regulate where and under what conditions such leases could be granted."
But what about the immigrants? Where will they live?
Not happy wrote on Jan 6, 2008 4:25 AM:I live in Escondido and the house next door sold in the last year and has become a mini-dorm. You can tell when school is in session because the traffic is horrendous. The problem is especially egregious because it is on a small private road. You can bet I am keeping my eye on the situation.
Why is it that wrote on Jan 6, 2008 6:57 AM:the minidorms are now a problem and multiple families of 10 or more people renting in Escondido isn't? Sounds like the students are being discriminated against. When the County and or the City fixes or enforces the Codes in Escondido, then maybe they can do something about the minidorm problem. Otherwise let the student alone.
Karl wrote on Jan 6, 2008 7:34 AM:I think "New Idea" has it right. This is the University's problem and they should have seen this coming. If they have enough money in the future to put up the buildings to teach 30k students they surely will have enough money to build housing. It sure looks like they have enough land. My son goes to San Jose State and they have a lot of on campus housing there on less land. I know from my college days that partying is part of the experience but too much of anything is not good. I can tell you that if my son was partying too much it would show up in his grades and with the money I am spending he would either shape up or lose his Dad and Moms funding.
Mary wrote on Jan 6, 2008 7:36 AM:There are laws against being noisy neighbors and there are laws against improperly maintining property. With the downturn in the economny, normal people are going to have to rent out rooms and other people will not be able to qualify for a lease. Banning multiple tennants may just tip more people having to let their homes fall into foreclosure. Now is not the time to pass such laws. More houses on the market lowers the price for everyone's homes. We need to help people keep their homes not set up situations were it is illegal for them to take in borders to help out. A time honored tradition from past economic downturns.
local wrote on Jan 6, 2008 8:11 AM:These students should move to Escondido, specifically the Lincoln/Fig/Ash/Mission area. As many people as they can cram into the "single family" houses and their garages and yards can live there. The city, especially the Mayor, likes it. Anybody of any age can party and whoop it up all they want in that area, in the house, outside of the house, in the front yard, in the street, as long, loud and hard as they want any time of day or night. Students would be encouraged to set up loudspeakers and speaker systems and broadcast their brilliant thoughts and their boom-boom music to their neighbors, and ground shaking, impossible to block out bass is especially desirable to Esco city officials. Fuddy duddy neighbors are quickly put in their place if they call the police as this is a no-enforcement zone (not true in other areas of Esco so don't move just anywhere). Unless the complaining normals are willing to sign a complaint and go to court and prosecute the partiers who are then free to retaliate, the police refuse to respond. And this area is actually very convenient to CSUSM, just a short jaunt down Lincoln to the 78, then Twin Oaks.
Jack wrote on Jan 6, 2008 8:33 AM:I don't know jack, but San Marcos has an international reputation for strip malls and urban sprawl. Why draw the line at mini-dorms? Where else will international students obtain affordable housing?
Skip wrote on Jan 6, 2008 9:54 AM:Wait San Marcos! The ACLU will be there to defend the people in the Minidorms adnd their constitutional rights, and the city will loose a lot of money in lawsuits. Oh Wait. The people in the Minidorms are probably mostly United States Citizens. Forget about the ACLU. Go ahead with your ordinance.
Frank wrote on Jan 6, 2008 10:05 AM:This is funny. They should relocate to Vista. Seems it's okay to have as many people as you want live in a house here. I have seen several homes with upwards of a dozen people living in them. They just put some curtains up in the garage, a couple of extra sofas in the house and call it good.
The reall problem! wrote on Jan 6, 2008 10:39 AM:First off, not all college students are party animals. I am a student and I go to work, go to school and do homework so please don't group all of us into that stereotype. There are two issues that really need to be adressed and these are the REAL issues in both SM and Esco. Why is no one suggesting poss. going to the CSU higher ups and asking them to forego the 12% raises for themselves so that tuition can be affordable for all students so that they can afford their own apts. and won't have to live 20 people in a 1 bedroom or whatever!? 2nd people need affordable places to live and until the housing market gets to a point where working families, students...PEOPLE IN GENERAL!! can afford to pay rent or buy a home w/out room-mates this problem is going to continue.
Bo Gato wrote on Jan 6, 2008 10:47 AM:There may be some relief IF the Sprinter starts operating!
Gringo wrote on Jan 6, 2008 11:36 AM:The Sprinter? That's a riot!
You were kidding, right?
Escondeeter wrote on Jan 6, 2008 11:40 AM:What a novel idea, trying to solve an overcrowding problem with an ordinance that regulates overcrowding. Apparently San Marcos's elected officials fail to see the wisdom of Escondido's approach of trying to solve an overcrowding problem with a parking ordinance. Or maybe they're just into writing legislation that actually fixes the problem it's designed to fix.
What's wrong with free enterprise? wrote on Jan 6, 2008 11:51 AM:I'm in the real estate business although I specialize in a niche market. I buy homes in very nice areas and sell/rent them to "non-traditional" tenants. Mostly I rent homes to poor families in up scale areas. I own homes in Solana Beach and Del-Mar which I rent to multiple families of the workers of some of the more wealthy families in that area. It is illegal for me to ask for citizenship status. The area around CSUSM has been good for me lately as I rent out so-called mini-dorms to students so they can be close to their school. I fulfill a demand for cheap housing...its basic economics. So what's wrong with that? Its legal and its win win for all. My tenants get cheap housing, I get lots of cash and the communities get educated people or cheap labor. CHA CHING! God Bless America!
to "What's wrong with free enterprise?" wrote on Jan 6, 2008 12:21 PM:Do you enjoy "bragging" about yourself. ...
Ironic Laugh wrote on Jan 6, 2008 12:27 PM:I had to pick myself up off the floor after reading the post made by 'local.' My family often drives to a restaurant, taking a shortcut through the neighborhood that the poster has outlined. We do it for the adventure, knowing that it can be a jungle out there. Who needs to watch CSI on tv when you can see the real thing?
Housing wrote on Jan 6, 2008 12:29 PM:I believe I havent heard once that the SM council has contacted Cal State officials. I would think this problem would be a "joint" problem. Cal State needs housing and many years ago, San Marcos "accepted" this university into it's city. The city at that time had to have known that a new university would only grow. Everbody else around did. How do you think the Prominence apt complex ended up there and the condos above Prominence? I totally agree with new idea.....Cal State needs to purchase exsisting housing. And the city needs to enforce it's existing ordinances and NOT discriminate against students. Also, if you dont like students why would you purchase a home within a reasonable distance of either college?
chris wrote on Jan 6, 2008 12:49 PM:Leave the kids alone. They're going to school. They're paying rent. Move a little bit away and get a great deal on a repo house and rent your current house to some Cal State kids. Win.Win.
Jimbo wrote on Jan 6, 2008 1:03 PM:Here's an idea: Enforce noise ordinances. Fine individuals who make noise during quiet hours, and increase fines per violation. It has worked in the past...believe me I used to be a noise maker, and after a fine or two...I kept quiet. Oh wait, this is the gov we're talking about, enforcing laws that benefit tax paying law abiding citizens is unheard of for some reason or another.
Karl wrote on Jan 6, 2008 1:19 PM:"Housing", some of the homes were there before the University was even planned. What do you say to those people? I do agree with your "joint" problem, some of the parties get out of hand when the students smoke too many "joints". Hey "What's wrong with free enterprise", I love your sarcasm.
Get rid of the illeal aliens wrote on Jan 6, 2008 2:46 PM:who rent in San Marcos and surrounding cities, and there will be PLENTY of housing. The noise violations might just go down as well, and if they don't, well, at least you've narrowed down the suspects by 50 percent. (And at least those suspects are here legally... its much easier to implement justice and enforce rules with people who actually have roots in this country; who can be negatively affected if laws are broken; who can actually READ the laws, let alone learn to respect them.) Oh, and guess what!? ALL of this can be accomplished by ENFORCING EXISTING LAWS regarding illegal immigration and city zoning codes. Heck, it can even be taken care of just by the city zoning codes. But try and get help from San Marcos Code Enforcement. Talk about an uphill struggle. They DON'T care, they don't do their jobs, and they never will unless their own job security is at stake.... and even then its questionable to the degree of enforcement.
Worse than college students wrote on Jan 6, 2008 3:53 PM:I agree that htere is a bigger problem here....we have too many illegal aliens living in apartments and houses designed for one family, violating codes that are not enforced all over this city. If you are going to open this can of worms, then you must enforce it for EVERYONE! They are everywhere, not just by Cal State. I have 4 families living next door to me with just as much noise, trash, vehicles parked in front of my house as these students. I'd trade it for students in a New York minute.
jvc wrote on Jan 6, 2008 10:03 PM:Could the city officials be doing this just to not look bad when they pursue people of color and aliens? This makes
them look like they are not being discriminating of one group!
You wrote on Jan 6, 2008 11:14 PM:You build a university and forget to build housing for students. Wow...did these people have a college degree? Students that live on campus or close to campus do much better in school. Interesting that no professor with a Ph.D could read the statistics on that and get the word out.
college student (hear me out by reading the whole thing) wrote on Jan 7, 2008 10:22 PM:Here me out by reading this whole thing: I am a college student who has dealt with issues like this before. My roommates (who are also in college) and I had problems with our neighbors, due to our "partying." We had a fairly large house that we were renting, and honestly had no idea that we were disrupting the "peace." In my experience, and now I am in my final year of college, I have found that many people look at college students as a level below a typical "adult." Often times, some of our neighbors would complain, just to complain, which was verified by our next-door-neighbors who told us that they hadn't heard a peep from us the previous night of "partying." My main point of posting this is that the neighbors around us that complained about our house, never once complained to US. Rather, they called the police, landlord, the HOA, and even other neighbors to rally against us. There were literally a number of times when the police had come to our house for a complaint from a neighbor, and we answered the door (not knowing that they were coming), and they had told us "Hey, we had a complaint from your neighbor; we can't say who it is, but clearly I don't see a problem here. Just try to keep it down so they don't complain more because they obviously dislike you." It's hard to believe that some people don't have the decency to tell things to people's faces, regardless of age. We even tried to go to the suspected complaining neighbor's house when we knew they were home. After knocking their front door numerous times on various different days, we figured that they would rather avoid us than talk to us (we knew they were home). In conclusion, had my neighbors talked with me or any of my roommates, we would have fixed EVERYTHING from then on. We truly didn't know that we were causing problems because our neighbors always found something new to complain about. Our house was NOT a party house either. So furthermore, our first mistake was NOT talking to our neighbors the very first day that we moved-in. But it just seemed shallow that these neighbors couldn't politely, or even inpolitely, ask us to fix these problems face-to-face. Now I know that every college student isn't the same, and in some cases, talking to us (college students) first, may not work, but at least give us a chance to prove ourselves to you. We did eventually, but even then, I'm sure our neighbors were thrilled that we moved. So next time, please talk with your college-student-neighbor. I guarantee that they will appreciate it more than a phone call to the police. Thank you for your time.
Throw out good with bad wrote on Jan 10, 2008 7:19 AM:What happened to the proposed Mini-Dorm Ordinance, anyway ? The City Council did not discuss it at the last council meeting on the 8th, when everyone thought they would. This is a very heated issue and one that does not require a new ordinance that punishes everyone - punishing the good students with the rowdy. It is probably just a way to get at another issue that we know nothing about. And to create more money for the city. What will happen to all of the home loans that will be called when these become "rooming houses" and what will happen to the insurance on each and every one of them (it will be cancelled), plus the home will be reappraised, increasing its taxes tremendously. Ugly. Messy. Problematic. Illegal, probably.
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