DD Wiz wrote on Jan 7, 2008 5:49 AM:The published letter from Grant Kuhns represents a fundamental failure to understand both economics as well as what it means to be a human being. He states: "Labor is better off as a commodity in its own right, just as the product of labor is another. Since labor and product are distinct commodities, the economic law of supply and demand acts separately upon the value of each." First, labor is not merely a "commodity." It is human beings; workers. Unlike any other kind of commodity, such as merchandise or equipment, it has rights of its own that must be considered. To say that it is just a "commodity" confirms the heartless lack of humanity at the core of conservative economic thinking, and is the same mentality that enabled the rise of slavery. Truly, corporations want to pay workers as little as possible and, if they could, they would restore slavery in a heartbeat (if they had one). Second, labor is simply NOT a separate entity (I won't use his word "commodity")! Even gagging long enough to set aside the human value of workers as individuals and reducing labor ONLY to its economic value, it is not a separate entity, is a component that goes into the value of the products it creates. Third the idea that supply and demand "acts separately" on labor and products shows a complete ignorance of basic economics. Again, unlike any other commodity (and rooted in the fact of their humanity), the role of labor (workers) in the economy is multi-dimensional. Working people are also consumers. When the kid flipping burgers at McD's gets higher wages, he has more money to spend buying burgers and the increased demand for the product offsets the reduced supply from increasing the cost of labor. I used to think conservatives must be truly uneducated not to grasp such basic economics, but I have come to understand they are not stupid at all. They understand this completely. They are not stupid, they are evil. They are trying to convince their victims that it is OK for them to become the masters.

Chuck wrote on Jan 7, 2008 6:01 AM:>> Laws that undermine our Constitution make us all less safe and, unfortunately, Jessica's Law is one of them.>>> Gee Laurel, whats unconstitutional about getting the perverts off the streets and ...?? Maybe Jessica and hundreds of other kids would be alive today, if you and your type around this nation didnt fight Jessica's law

Chuck wrote on Jan 7, 2008 6:08 AM:>>Rep. Filner's upset is totally understandable>> No it's not. Why is he any important than you or me. He knows what the rules are ... and not get to the airport on time, why is that the TSA's fault that he acted like a jerk. I agree the whole airport thing has turned into a power trip for TSA employees, but it also has one other effect-- The next time someone threatens a plane, the other passengers will take care of the problem in the "proper manner"

Chuck wrote on Jan 7, 2008 6:14 AM:>>May very returning Veteran be received with love and appreciation for the sacrifices that they made>> I agree, but it looks like their planes will have to land in San Diego to get that appreciation. I've heard several stories about planes in Oakland and SanFranciso where servicemen were treated like criminals. You see, diversity up there only applies to their type.

Chuck wrote on Jan 7, 2008 7:17 AM:The news is saying Iranian Revolutionary Guard boats harassed and provoked three U.S. Navy ships in the strategic Strait of Hormuz, and that
U.S. forces were on the verge of firing. Why were they on the verge??? Push the botton and terminate the scum. What is it going to take for the military to use its Naval power? Bush sits there and let Iran provoke the Navy and does nothing, and then he lets some federal blackrobe, thats in the back pocket of the environmentalists, stop our Navy from using sonar along our coast. The enemy smells weakness in ... Bush, and their smell is right on

Chuck wrote on Jan 7, 2008 7:32 AM:>>>Check with actuaries on potential terrorist personal damage are miniscule>> How can that be?? Liberals are telling us we are less safe now than we were on 9/11. Naturally, that is after liberals disclose to terrorists every method we use to monitor them, they oppose every measure of the Patriot Act. They sue Bush to stop electronic spying on the terrorists, they get federal judges to stop the Navy from using sonar along our coasts, etc, etc.

Jack wrote on Jan 7, 2008 8:05 AM:I don't know jack, but if the current administration manages to engage us in a war with Iraq before the November election, it will be utterly unnecessary and regrettable.

Here we go again! wrote on Jan 7, 2008 8:10 AM:So today is William Kristol's debut as a columnist in the NY Times. And his first column is about how Mike Huckabee is a likable regular guy, just what America seems to want. Oh, boy. Isn't this exactly what was so appealing about Bush? Yeah, that's exactly what we need again! A seemingly likable guy who wanted to quarantine people with AIDS, who knows nothing about foreign affairs, and who wants to save the US for Jesus.

Idea contest wrote on Jan 7, 2008 8:25 AM:What if by magic every liberal in the USA was gone one morning. They all found themselves living in other countries (this shouldn't be hard because just about every other country in the developed world is more liberal-friendly than the US is). So now the entire population of the US is conservative Republican, including all the members of Congress. What do you think would happen? What policies would change? What foreign policy decisions would occur? What laws would come and go? Would this population agree on most things? I look forward to the answers and ideas.

Ron wrote on Jan 7, 2008 8:55 AM:http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2008/01/07/news/californian/5_01_991_6_08.txt

You see this? This WILL be your future if you vote to have this State take over your medical care. Every year they burp, it will result in fewer funds to ALL government activities. And school, education... as important as it is, gets hit every time we have a down turn.
As I have previously written, the Brit's have had a socialist healthcare plan since 1948, every year the bean counters inside the government, the bueracrats seeking to stay within their budgets, find ways to deny medical access. The Prime Minister, as I quoted yesterday, and on 1/4, has said an 18 week waiting period, if they achieve it by year end, will be the best, and the shortest they have done since the programs inception 60 years ago.

Ron wrote on Jan 7, 2008 9:07 AM:http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2008/01/07/news/sandiego/13_05_751_6_08.txt

"Building may be down because of the housing slump, but building fees could be increasing in the county's unincorporated communities.
On Wednesday, county supervisors will consider hiking dozens of building permit fees by an average of 14 percent until June, when they would increase again through June 2009, amounting to a cumulative 22 percent jump on average."

And did you see this, typical government "incentives?" Hardly... at a time when the building/housing industry is taking a massive hit, the government yet again does something stupid, and raises permiting fees. And I have a bet for all you Sphincter {Sprinter} enthusiasts. When the ridership on this choo-choo does not increase to pay it's freight, the price will go up. How long has the San diego trolley been in existence? And it has yet to meet a balanced budget.

Gas in the 1940's and now wrote on Jan 7, 2008 9:09 AM:Robert Layton tells an interesting history of his vehicles. I was struck by his account that during WWII the speed limit was lowered to save gas during the war effort. Once again, how different from the Iraq situation, where we are told instead to go shopping. I wonder what would happen if Bush declared that, to save gas, the national speed limit would be reduced to 35 mph for the duration of the Iraq occupation. Would Americans tolerate a war that asked for even this sacrifice? I doubt it.

Ron wrote on Jan 7, 2008 9:31 AM:Frankly, I am quite surprised that we have not heard the cry's of voter fraud yet by the Clinton's. That's not to say, it won't happen, nothing is out of the question when it comes to the triangulation factor of Bill & Hill. But it is surprising that no news reports, even media speculation has occurred as to whether or not any kind of voter fraud, dirty tricks, or infringement has taken place. For Hillary, this was supposed to be a cake walk, a coronation, not even a thought. It was Her's. Since the embarrassing loss in Iowa, behind two guy's with "less experience", in a mostly white State {that's code for "their racists"} I am suprised we have not seen the only viable attack available to her, it was stolen. When it's a contest between Republicans and Democrats, media sources repeatedly talk about "suspected" voter fraud, dirty tricks, and/or voter infringement, of course, only on the Republican side. The silence, I think, speaks volumes.

jsc wrote on Jan 7, 2008 9:50 AM:There are 3 types of aliens: illegal, amnesty and legal. Each has distinct characteristics. Illegal aliens come here to take as much as they can, whether through work or welfare. Most of them intend to return to their home country after acquiring sufficient cash reserves. They have no loyalty to the U.S. Many pregnant Medi-Cal applicants state "no" to the question "do you intend to remain indefinitely in the U.S.". We then deny their application and they reapply stating "yes". Most live as cheaply as possible, 3 or more families in an apartment, in order to save money or send it home. The vast majority, 85% only receive Medi-Cal and WIC. About 15% go on to receive food stamps, cash aid, and/or subsidized housing. They either commit identity fraud by using someone else's SSN to work, or they work under the counter, paying no taxes. Many commit welfare fraud. They drive without a license or insurance and leave the scene of an accident.
Legal immigrants, those who fill out the paperwork and wait their turn to come here legally are seldom seen in the social services office unless they suffer a major catastrophe or need to go into long term care. They are much more responsible, they pay their taxes even if self employed. They are more likely to carry health insurance, auto insurance. They are good residents and/or citizens. They learn English and try to assimilate into our culture and obey our laws.
Amnesty aliens from the 1986 amnesty are different from both. Most still receive Medi-Cal. Many more opt for additional benefits. Most are still working the same jobs so their income has not improved. Some still work under the counter and don't pay taxes. Most still don't speak English. Some have improved themselves and gained better paying jobs in the educational, social services, and law enforcement fields, all of which need large numbers of bilingual workers because of their international clientele. But the majority are in the same status as 1986: low wages, high demand of social services, no loyalty to U.S. But since they are legal,they demand better than equal treatment and are a significant drain on our economy. There should never be another amnesty; it will just encourage greater illegal immigration and greater social and economic costs to the U.S. in the future.
I support a temporary worker program. I also support significant increases in immigration quotas. I would be willing to support a quadrupling of legal immigration slots for up to 10 years if our work force requires it. But I also feel there should be 3 lists. 1 for educated, skilled English speaking immigrants. The second list could include agricultural or other workers . The third would be for family reunification. The first 2 would be based on our needs, the 3rd would be quota based. I also feel that even temporary workers legally coming to the U.S. should be entitled to a citizenship path after working here and returning home, as scheduled,for 5 years.
There are too many uninsured, unemployed or unskilled Americans that need to be taken care of first, before we allow foreigners to take their places on the work force or the educational and welfare system.

Healthcare wrote on Jan 7, 2008 9:54 AM:Ron may be right about less than ideal medical care in GB. But look at the alternatives. We pay much more than the Brits do, funding insurance hacks whose job it is to find ways to deny claims; funding billions for marketing; and still rarely getting a doctor that stays with you and knows you. And that's for people who HAVE insurance. Those without insurance here are in big trouble: Bush's claim that they just use the emergency rooms is yet another display of his ignorance (or heartlessness). In fact, another major study showed that people without insurance get much worse health care than others, treat their illnesses much later, if at all, die sooner, etc. Surely we can do better than this. Even Britain, overall, seems to be doing better than this (as has been pointed out, not even Margaret Thatcher would've considered proposing a shift in England to a for-profit, private health care system.)

Ron wrote on Jan 7, 2008 9:55 AM:Apparently, Ron Paul is taking it on the chin over his border security ideas with his critics. Last week with his no "anchor baby", and then to deny visas to those from terror country's. If that don’t play to the Gop base nothing will. And his government keep hands off us stuff should be getting a bit more traction. Yes? Kinda refreshing.

DD Wiz wrote on Jan 7, 2008 10:11 AM:The published letter from Grant Kuhns represents a fundamental failure to understand both economics as well as what it means to be a human being. Looking back, it seems that every year about this time Kuhns feels the need to write a letter on this subject, and every year I have to shoot down his economic ignorance. Kuhns states: "Labor is better off as a commodity in its own right, just as the product of labor is another. Since labor and product are distinct commodities, the economic law of supply and demand acts separately upon the value of each." First, labor is not merely a "commodity." It is human beings; workers. Unlike any other kind of commodity, such as merchandise or equipment, it has rights of its own that must be considered. To say that it is just a "commodity" confirms the heartless lack of humanity at the core of conservative economic thinking, and is the same mentality that enabled the rise of slavery. Truly, corporations want to pay workers as little as possible and, if they could, they would restore slavery in a heartbeat (if they had one). Second, labor is simply NOT a separate entity (I won't use his word "commodity")! Even gagging long enough to set aside the human value of workers as individuals and reducing labor ONLY to its economic value, it is not a separate entity, is a component that goes into the value of the products it creates. Third the idea that supply and demand "acts separately" on labor and products shows a complete ignorance of basic economics. Again, unlike any other commodity (and rooted in the fact of their humanity), the role of labor (workers) in the economy is multi-dimensional. Working people are also consumers. When the kid flipping burgers at McD's gets higher wages, he has more money to spend buying burgers and the increased demand for the product offsets the reduced supply from increasing the cost of labor. I used to think conservatives must be truly uneducated not to grasp such basic economics, but I have come to understand they are not stupid at all. They understand this completely. They are not stupid, they are evil. They are trying to convince their victims that it is OK for them to become the masters.
There is a further point that Kuhns fails to understand about basic economics. Because labor is NOT separate and CONTRIBUTES as one component of products/services, its role in supply/demand cannot be considered as a separate element. Kuhns states: "the value of labor is ultimately determined by employers." How ridiculous. Employers do not determine the value of labor; they respond to it. With some notable exceptions, the majority of employers pay as little as they can get away with and still be able to hire someone. An employer does not "give" someone a job as if it were an act of charity, but hires someone because that person will produce more than he is paid and make money for the employer. If there is stronger broad-based demand in the economy, there will be more need to create products/services to sell, and the employer will lose money if he loses sales because of not having enough employees. If more working people have more money to spend, there will be more broad-based demand for products/services.

Alf wrote on Jan 7, 2008 10:12 AM:Well, "Gas in the 1940's and now" at 9:09AM, if we were told the truth, that Iraq was about oil, that we invaded a sovereign nation specifically for the purpose to acquire their oil, AT ANY COST to American Troops, I doubt that the American People would have backed such a horrible example of out-right theft, in my opinion. Regards, Alf.

DD Wiz wrote on Jan 7, 2008 10:13 AM:The post from "Karl" (1/6 - 9:08pm) responds to my comment about the porn novels by Lynne Cheney and Bill O'Reilly with: "This is total news to me. What? Lead me to the novels and I might believe you." I do apologize for not being more specific; I thought this was widely known, as it has gotten much media coverage. But I guess not on Rush Limbaugh or Faux News; certainly not on the Bill O'Reilly show. The novels I was referring to are: "Sisters" by Lynne Cheney and "Those Who Trespass" by Bill O'Reilly. "Karl" further ridicules "conservative boogey men." He seems to be rather defensive. I have never made generalizations without citing a specific issue or viewpoint I was referring to, unlike this comment that makes no specific reference to a specific issue.
"Karl" then goes on to ask: "Are all conservatives the boogey man. Yes or no. Very simple question. What you need to do is consider the question, then type in DD Whiz in the "name" dialog box, click into the comments dialog box and then type either "y" "e" "s" or "n" "o"
Please don't be childish, immature or patronizing. Not all questions can be answered "yes" or "no," even when they appear in a "yes" or "no" format. To think otherwise shows very shallow, simplistic thinking (down to that last brain cell, I guess). I addressed this once before, but the editor on duty that night did not understand that the example question I included was metaphorical and hypothetical, and assumed it cast aspersions on someone's private life. Hopefully the morning blogeditor on duty has a better grasp of metaphor and hyperbole, but to make certain, this is NOT a specific reference to any actual person (since I don't actually even know the real identifies of any conservative here); in fact, the assumption is that it does NOT apply to a specific person, and is meant to show by its ridiculous why not everything can be answered "yes" or "no." So, "Karl," IF you believe that every question can be answered "yes" or "no," then I will accept your challenge is you will accept mine. Please answer the following (purely hypothetical and metaphorical) question: "Have you stopped beating your wife yet?"

DD Wiz wrote on Jan 7, 2008 10:21 AM:The post from "Ron" (8:55am) refers to a North County Times article about a school budget problem, and he transfers this to the issue of health care. The guy just can't think straight in a single direction. What is he suggesting, that because there are occasional problems with public education and budgeting for them, that we close all the public schools? Stop "socialized education"? Should we also stop "socialized public safety" and close down the police departments and fire departments and require everyone to hire their own rent-a-cops and on-site safety managers? The role of government is to settle disputes and maintain the public order. Maintaining public health and safety is the proactive side of maintaining public order. And many of us believe that health care is a part of public health and safety, and the public (through representative government) has a role to play. That said, "Ron" has lately made several posts citing the British experience. There are several models for government involvement. Canadians and Australians use private doctors who are NOT employees of the government and private hospitals, not owned or operated by the government, but payment is made by the government through what is known as "single-payer." The British system is closer to what could be called "socialistic" (but only if one also applies the term "socialist" to other public health/safety services) because medical facilities ARE owned/operated by the government and doctors ARE government employees, kind of like our VA system (hey, "Ron," ya wanna scrap that "socialistic" system, too?). There is no current proposal anywhere in the U.S. for a British-style centrally-owned/operated system. In the U.S., the two competing proposals are single-payer, which is really getting no traction anywhere, and operating through private insurance carriers under a structured framework to ensure universal access, as is now done in Massachusetts (by Romney) and being proposed in California. But of course, as usual, "Ron" will not actually address the issues that are really there, and is always trying to divert and distract to irrelevancies. But whatever you think of the British system (which, AGAIN, is NOT on the table here), the Brits overwhelmingly love it (despite occasional grumbling about specific problem areas, such as wait times for non-emergency routine visits). Not even the most conservative Tory would consider the political suicide of suggesting it be abolished.

What say ye? wrote on Jan 7, 2008 10:23 AM:I know we have many FoxNews watchers and defenders here. What's your opinion of them barring Ron Paul from the Republican debate, even though he has pulled in more money and votes than people who are invited? Fair and balanced?

Chris to Nick wrote on Jan 7, 2008 10:30 AM:Your blog yesterday said that you concider the Palestinians cowards. Well I guess that you overlook the terrorist acts carried out by the Zionist, like Minachim Begin, when they did things like bombing hotels. Of course you just look the other way concening the ethnic cleansing done by the Zionist in 1948 of which the attack on a village like der yasim was a prime example. From the beginning under the British mandate the Zionist were smuggling arms into Palestine with the intention of driving out the Arabs who have lived there for many generations. You come up with all this stuff about going back further to the time before the Arabs lived there. well that would have been many centuries and when they did start to populate the area they did not go into the land and oust the current inhabatants. But all you really care about is trashing the Pasestinians and waving the flag for Israel so this nonsense about going back centuries is just a way to try to justify your bigotry. You support the collective punishment of the Palestinians where Israel is destroying their property and killing innocent civilians. I detect not a true dialog but pure bigotry on your part. Finally, I find it interesting that you criticize the so-called terrorist act by a suicide bomber but if a country like Israel or the U.S. drops bombs or missles into a civilian area that is alright. War is terrorism but you support that but criticize the other side when they do what they do with what they have.

Alf wrote on Jan 7, 2008 10:33 AM:I would like to know, L. Bertrand
Halsema, how many "terrorists" that the TSA has caught. I already know that the answer is "that information is classified due to "National Security"". That is their way of saying that they haven't got any, that they have screwed us all up, that they are DOING NOTHING, ARE DOING NOTHING AND ACCOMPLISHING NOTHING EXCEPT TO SCREW THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. The TSA can not tell what they have prevented because they have prevented NOTHING!! We live with our rights going down the toilet and they REFUSE to say what OUR LOSS OF RIGHTS HAS BOUGHT US AND WHAT OUR SACRIFICE OF OUR RIGHTS IS WORTH!! I can tell you, it is worth NOTHING, but it is costing us BILLIONS of dollars AND OUR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS! Regards, Alf.

Here we go again, again wrote on Jan 7, 2008 10:47 AM:When an administration has been lying or wrong as often as Bush's has, a sane person would be skeptical about claims that our ships were being harassed by the Iranians. What does "harassed" mean? Where were our ships? Can you say "Gulf of Tonkin"? You see Chuck, some of us value American lives and don't find war all that attractive unless it's necessary. So when we hear yet another accusation about yet another evil enemy, when almost every accusation in the past has been bogus, we don't necessarily believe it. By the way, Chuck, you haven't told us why you never served. Which makes your glee over sending others to die for your fantasies all the more repugnant.

Chris wrote on Jan 7, 2008 10:58 AM:So, the U.S. military is claiming that the Iranians tried to provoke the Navy. Shades of the Gulf of Tonkin anyone.

Prince to SOLON wrote on Jan 7, 2008 11:04 AM:Hey bro, I won't be able to veiw Keith O or Bill O this evening, but the news is abuzz about Bill O assaulting someone at a Borac Obama event over the weekend. Could you comment on it for us tomorrow and set the record straight. Thanks

Chuck wrote on Jan 7, 2008 11:08 AM:I see the liberals want to make sure Russia, Venzuela, Mexico and the Arabs extract the highest possible price out of the US for oil. And soon, they'll be wondering why they didn't get a payraise, and their benefits were cut and why there were so many layoffs. Their America hate is so deep, they'd rather see us ruined than develope our own oil resources.

Alf wrote on Jan 7, 2008 11:10 AM:Aa a simple cost/benefit analyis of the TSA/Homeland Security would prove them to be "not worth the money", if this was a business venture. But, I forgot, this is a GOVERNMENT project and not subject to the realities or the same criteria as exists in any business that wants to be successful. $600 dillar hammers! The rest is ?????? Regards, Alf.

Chuck wrote on Jan 7, 2008 11:14 AM:>>I know we have many FoxNews watchers and defenders here. What's your opinion of them barring Ron Paul from the Republican debate>> Fox News has already annointed Rudy, and will spend the next year digging up dirt on everyone else. It's no different than the left wing media like CNN, CBS, NBC, MSNBC, & ABC having annointed Hillary and will do what they can do destroy Hussein Obama and that Slip N Fall lawyer. Can you just imagine the viciousness headed our way if Hillary loses in New Hampshire?? Obama and Edwards better stay away from driving over bridges and taking walks in the parks at night.

Floyd wrote on Jan 7, 2008 11:16 AM:If there were no liberals in the USA, we would not have the necessary give-and-take of ideas & goals. The political process of give-and-take is simultaneously awe-inspiring, frustrating and laughable, but it's the best way to meet the diverse and changing needs of a free citizenry. Sure you'll have abuses like the global cooling/warming/stability controversy, but some people crave excitement and thanks to politics they can have that too. For awhile, anyway.

sdraoul wrote on Jan 7, 2008 11:18 AM:Leon Smith's hyperbole is amusing as it is wrong. His jaundiced and d
falsely based look at immigrants of all sorts but of illegals specifically is a sour look at significant part of our daily economic lives. Smith: " not counting the 12 million to 20 million illegal aliens, city and county services are being overwhelmed so much so..." is essentially wrong. Frist, he mouths propaganda by claimign there might be 20-million illegals. That claim is made by fanatics nto reasonable people. They simply refuse to admit that most immigrants to the country come here legally and most of them come from Mexico. To Smith and his ilk, all illegals are Mexican thus all Mexicans are illegal. That's where tyhe "30-million" figure somes from, color profiling, language profiling. as for services, illegals cannot collect any Social Security, they can't collect any welfare benefits, they can't work in any job that requires proof of citizenship or legal residency. They can only work in areas where there aren't enough Americans to work. Wages are unimportant, how many Americans will pick strawberries on their knees 12 hours-a-day for $12-15-$20 an hour? How many will work construction 12-hours-a-day, six or seven days a week? Americans didn't do that when they monopolized the industry wo why would they do so now. Construction si nto a minimum wage industry, is it? Smith need s to understand our economy, it demands workers and if Americans aren't there to do the work, it will draw from wherever it can and if no workers are available -- read a wall across the country -- the work will go overseas to China or India. For example, pre-fabricate residential structures can be engineered and built in China or Korea and shipped to the U.S. by boat to be assembled by temporary very hungry workers hired for $10.00 an hour. Look around, Smith, illegals keep the wheels of the economy on and working. By doing so, they pay their way.

To Ron wrote on Jan 7, 2008 11:19 AM:For cryin' out loud Ron, you are the only one who has been blabbing about Hillary and the Clintons for months, is it killing you that you were wrong, once again? Even Ron Paul is polling the same as Giuliani. Forget about Hillary, Ron, she doesn't have a chance. I thought you would have caught on by now.

To Ron wrote on Jan 7, 2008 11:21 AM:Dr. Paul doesn't take it on the chin for anybody. He says what he means and he means what he says. Get used to seeing his name in the polls as he rises.

Voter fraud wrote on Jan 7, 2008 11:23 AM:Gosh, I can't remember a case where Hillary (or Bill) Clinton screamed "voter fraud", can you? So when Hillary DOESN'T scream in this way, then for Ron, it's her SILENCE that screams instead. In other words, to boil this down into simple language, anything Hillary or Bill do or don't do is evil. Simple. Great logic, Ron. By the way, there was a big piece about the unreliability of voting machines in the NY Times today. Now one would think that claims that voting machines were fatally flawed would rankle ANY American who votes. But I have this suspicion that, thanks to the recent elections, we have come to see this as a Democrat issue, that for some reason, Republicans could care less about the voting machines' accuracy. Why in the world would that be?

To Chris wrote on Jan 7, 2008 11:24 AM:I see ALL the media downplaying Ron Paul. Will be interesting to see the media lose any relevance to the political process now that the youngsters have the utube and the internet. Too bad so sad for Fox and all the rest. Their irrelevance is about to become, well, irrelevant.

Truck bombs and terror wrote on Jan 7, 2008 11:27 AM:There was an interesting article in Harper's magazine a couple of years ago on the history of the truck bomb. Turns out it was first used in the middle east by Zionists, with US assistance, blowing up markets and the like in an effort to scare the Palestinians into leaving, to make room for the coming state of Israel. Of course, now that Israel has a modern military, also with US assistance, they no longer have to be cowards in this way.

sdraoul wrote on Jan 7, 2008 11:28 AM:Leon Smith's hype continues when he states that we have over 300-million people in the country "not counting" 12-20 million illegals. How wrong can he be? On the one hand, people like him, say the Center for Immigration studies) decry that the Census Bureau counts illegals thus making the Congressional redistricting every ten years weighted towards states with large numbers of illegals and shorts states and their citizens with less representation. Now, he claims that we don't count illegals. He can't have it both ways.

Once upon a time wrote on Jan 7, 2008 11:34 AM:there was a little shepherd boy who was a rascal and wanted to be important. So he cried to the villagers, "There's a wolf in the east woods!" Because he lived in Chucktown, the villagers responded by napalming the east woods, which unfortunately destroyed many valuable crops and the villages of close allies. But there was no wolf. Then the shepherd cried "There's a wolf in the west woods!" and the villagers of Chucktown nuked the west woods, destroying all life and the land and water that supported it. But no remains of anything like a wolf was found. The leaders of Chucktown never minded that the boy kept doing this for attention, in fact every time he cried out in this way, after another wood was anihilated, the shepherd got a medal and a promotion. As far as we know, this has not stopped to this day, even though the scientific consensus is that no wolves ever lived in that part of the world. The leaders of Chucktown are happy with themselves and their little hero: for they can say, "Are our sheep not safe from wolves?"

sdraoul wrote on Jan 7, 2008 11:44 AM:jsc writes fiction about 1986 amnestied people. First, the non-farmworker 2-million had to be here five years to apply, then they had to be here five more years before they applied for permanent residency, then they had to be here another five years before they could apply for citizenship. Jsc does not imply, he firmly and falsely states that "many" still don't speak English. Is he nuts? He claims that most claim various benefits without a scintilla of proof they do. We know that the State conducted studies of amnestied people and concluded that they did not seek or claim various benefits that they were denied them during their five year probationary period. Follow up studies conclusively determined that most of these people simply never engaged any of these benefits they were denied even as they were bonafide taxpayers. Most have moved on to better paying jobs as concluded by definitive studies that prove conclusively that immigrants improve their lot over ten years. Remember these people have now been here 27-years. For jsc to make his statements about these people without respectable proof doesn't fly. Neither does his characteriozations of the very people who put food on his table and have subsidized our Social Securtity checks to the tune--according to the Social sEcurity Administration -- to the tune of $400-billion dollars, dollars they can never collect.

Chuck is wrong; L.E.K. is correct wrote on Jan 7, 2008 11:51 AM:Bonnie Dumanis and most other politicians continue to make new laws without intellectual correct reasoning. Dumanis and other politicians make new laws so voters will elect them. Politicians purposely ignore facts. They don't know much and usually choose to listen only to people who agree with them rather than competent educated experts. There are enough laws already to take care of all our important needs. There is duplication. There are laws that are never enforced. Our Constitution and Bill of Rights are the backbone of our nation.

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." "Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power." -Benjamin Franklin.

I followed Ron's advice wrote on Jan 7, 2008 12:03 PM:Ron always is encouraging us to "read everything", so I went to the Al Jazeera website to see what they had to say about the "provocation" of US ships by Iranians. The Iranians acknowledged the encounter and are investigating it, saying it was not likely that the government would deliberately provoke the US in this way. Instead, the preliminary report was that the Iranians did not identify the US ships, and that such misidentifications and confrontations are not uncommon in the Gulf, by many nations.
So, of course, we don't know the truth. But isn't it shameful that we Americans are driven, if we have sense, to read Al Jazeera to get a fair and balanced view of claims our own government makes? In the recent past, we've repeatedly seen our government either wrong or lying about similar events in Iraq and Iran. So who ya gonna believe? That's the state of information in the Bush era. Makes you proud, doesn't it?

to all wrote on Jan 7, 2008 12:21 PM:"We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately. Statement at the signing of the Declaration of Independence (1776-07-04), as quoted in The Record of the Celebration of the Two Hundredth Anniversary of the Birth of Benjamin Franklin (1906) by Isaac Minis Hays, p. 90" A few of you seem to recognize the importance of Liberty as valued by the 'fathers' of our country. Most living politicians are selfish. We are losing our LIBERTY. Our current governments (fed, state, county) do not believe in govt by the people of the people for the people. We are all frustrated from govt acts such as using eminent domain for private purposes. Politicians have divided us; they win; we lose. Divided, our quality of life will disappear.

Karl wrote on Jan 7, 2008 12:29 PM:Novel idea "Idea contest" but it would be a total disaster. Even though I disagree with liberal philosophies, debate, discussion and differing ideas have helped to make this Country great.

Ron wrote on Jan 7, 2008 12:32 PM:My dear friend, whizzer, once again shows he simply does not understand economic basics. I was in fact, making the comparison of education, who's budget routinely gets cut whenever the State economy takes a down turn, to a proposed medical system, in which both shall be funded by the State. In effect, they are, or will both be single payer systems. Where the only revenue will come from the government.
It can not.. not be affected by an economic downturn, regardless of it's importance to it's constiuents, as shown by education funding. Education very important, but along with all the States other programs, they chop it when they don't have the money, it becomes just another program they are expected to reduce. That means, less money for teachers, books, buses, etc. In a medical system who's only funding also comes from the State, you will see fewer patients treated, less medicine, expensive procedures such as liver transplants pushed back. It will be exactly what I have said it will be, heart patients vying for funding against kidney patients.

Ron wrote on Jan 7, 2008 12:33 PM:As to your hyperbolic statements of closing down police or fire departments is flat out ridiculous. The Government is charged with those specific duties.
That is just an attempt to deflect, and change the subject.

Ron wrote on Jan 7, 2008 12:35 PM:And I want to answer this question about how a single payer system becomes socialist, and government run. Here's how: When your only source of money, or funding is from The Government, government then has the ability to control who you see, how much they will pay, and in the end, how much profit you will make because of your education.
They may not in fact stand in your office and tell you how to run it, but by default, by limiting your receivables, they will tell you how many you will employ, how large an office, what kind of malpractise insurance you can afford, etc.
We've seen the letters, here, from quite a few medical service providers who state they are being paid half of what they would normally charge, which is how Medi-Care & Medi-Cal both work. How many of you would be willing to stay in a job or a business where you were paid half of your regular rate, or wage? Not many, if any, I would think, not even lib's who think other's should because they have decided you should. Not only would doctors be affected, but nurses, and tech's, and other staff. All paid by government fiat, to control the rising costs.

Ron wrote on Jan 7, 2008 12:36 PM:And you can point to any number of other countries, they all have the same problems. A limited government budget, affected by rising and decreasing tax revenues, with the only restrictions being, limiting what they pay out. It will be a race to the bottom of medical care.
And obviously, whiz has never been treated at a VA hospital. I have. And I'm more than sure if you check around, the system while good at some levels, is terrible at others. I've never said, a socialist medical system can not treat common colds, or injuries. Where they to get into trouble is in the higher end diseases, and other maladies.
As to Massachusetts, Romney, and California, you tell me how mandating insurance coverage will actually work? We can't even get full car insurance, even though it's the law. Frankly, I'm surprised you guy's haven't proposed a central system for the public safety on car insurance.

Ron wrote on Jan 7, 2008 12:38 PM:As to whether Brit's love a system or not, let me say this. If that's the ONLY system you have ever known, how could you see anything different being better? If your used to waiting 18 weeks, or more.. and you like it? What does that really say? If you don't have the ability to buy another system, how could you know? Plus, as I've stated repeatedly, liberal institutionalism is at work here. For once you give a human being something for free, that they become dependent upon, they will build the whole structure of their lives around the freebie. We've seen it in welfare, where generations had kid after kid to stay on it, only to have the cycle repeat itself, with the children of those welfare receipiants having kids to stay on the dole.
As to Brit politicians who won't end it.
It would be the same as an American politician who would end an American Social Security system. For even if the system is failing, they will prop it up, because their constituents have become dependent upon the government to the point, they can't see, or imagine another way of doing business. Even if the taxes go up 19 times since inception, or waiting periods are more than 18 weeks since inception.

Chuck wrote on Jan 7, 2008 12:42 PM:>>Chuck is wrong; L.E.K. is correct>> No I'm not. An overwhelming majority of the public want the perverts hammered for preying on the kiddies, so the public should rule. Naturally the perverts will want more lenient laws and scream "Constitutional violation"

to; I followed Ron's advice wrote on Jan 7, 2008 12:46 PM:Obviously you’re implying that the only way to get the truth is to get it from sources outside the U.S., even from our enemies. So why don’t you just get your news from Al Jazeera in the first place as to not confuse yourself.

Focal Point wrote on Jan 7, 2008 12:50 PM:Chuck wrote on Jan 7, 2008 6:14 AM: You heard. Do you have any documentation at all for your hearsay?

Ron wrote on Jan 7, 2008 1:00 PM:Given whizzer's long diatribe at
@10:11 AM, I'd like to return to a conversation we both had regarding w riter seeking to publish a book. Obviously, all involved in the process of actually getting the publication to market are human beings, deserving respect, a decent living, and a right to pursue their own happiness. With all of that in mind, and whizzers obvious concern about human beings... Would this same author be considered heartless and cruel if they did not throughly check out the publishing house they signed with to make sure that every single operation was done by employers who met his same expectations? Or is that part of the process that's out of your control? Could it not be "part of your deal" to sign with a publisher who met these requirements, or not sign at all if they did not? This fascinates me, this idea of fair pay and treatment. For if the author knowingly goes in with these issues, and concerns, yet does nothing.. is he/she equally heartless? And lacks humanity? Do authors via their publishers want to pay workers as little as possible and, if they could, they would restore slavery? Or is the value of their labor ultimately determined by their employer(s), both the author and the publisher? Same too, with any other number of capital transactions, such a buying cars, or even solar panels. That's how I see it, anyways.

Chuck wrote on Jan 7, 2008 1:02 PM:>>Obviously you’re implying that the only way to get the truth is to get it from sources outside the U.S.>> Thats just how it is for liberals. Their deep hatred for America and Bush forces them to drool over anything coming from the terrorists & other international America haters in order to validate calling Bush & America liars

Iran Provocation wrote on Jan 7, 2008 1:06 PM:The government lies, why should I believe this? George Bush lies, why should I believe this? How sad I am forced to go outside my own country to find the truth. W's memoirs: The Bush Who Cried Wolf.

Nick wrote on Jan 7, 2008 1:06 PM:Oh "Chris", are you listening to yourself? I could care less about Israel, I'm not Jewish. I just call it like I see it. Palestinians are cowards! If they want to fight, tell them to put on uniforms and fight like men. Nope, cowards, hiding among innocent women and children to murder more of the same. That's not war amigo, that's being scared to actually face your so-called enemy. War is terrorism? Maybe in your eyes. It's seems you actually dug a little deeper and figured out it wasn't the Palestinians land to start with, but that doens't matter to you "Chris" because it just calls bunk on your argument. I'll give you this, your trying, but as usual you don't make any sense!

Nick wrote on Jan 7, 2008 1:10 PM:To "Chris": Where do you think Hezbollah and the Palestinias get all their money, weapons and explosives from? Iran and Syria! 2 fine, upstanding Countries on a direct course for nothing more then world peace and harmony.....NOT!

Chuck wrote on Jan 7, 2008 1:11 PM:>>We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately>> The second Bush took office, that didn't apply anymore. Liberals went into their hate, and divide and conquer mode. Thats why their approval rating is 11%. Americans didn't want their illegal alien amnesty plan, they didnt want them to try to de-rail every plan Bush had to fight world wide terrorism, America didn't want liberals to spend 12 months spewing about 8 fired US Attorneys, America doesn't want the liberal plan for huge new oil taxes leading to even higher gas prices. I really can't think of anything liberals have done that has majority support from normal people.

Ron wrote on Jan 7, 2008 1:15 PM:And this whole thing of "tax incentives" just chaps me. How is it that we have gotten to the point, where I have to go "hat in hand" and beg this government to allow me to have more of my own money? Sure, they'll give it to you, if they approve your request???!!!
What??!!! My request? Don't these clowns work for me? It would be a far better system for them to come and beg me, which is the way I believe our Founders intended it to be. We are sooo far away from our Founding, that we don't even give it a second thought when this government places fees, or taxes on us, and we just lay back, accept it, and live on less. If I need to buy something for business, why should I have to wait until they decide it's valuable enough to me, that they should allow me some kind of tax break so I can afford it? Isn't that my job?
I can hear the clowns now.. "No.. No.. Ron, not this year.. but next year we hope to pass something along that line."
Hey dude, my machine is broke.. This YEAR!

Chuck wrote on Jan 7, 2008 1:16 PM: >>the preliminary report was that the Iranians did not identify the US ships>> And you believe that? LOL. Did they think "USS Ronald Reagan" was in McHale's Navy??

Chuck wrote on Jan 7, 2008 1:28 PM:What's this I hear:: Hillary crying like a little baby because she's behing in a poll. Isn't she the one who said she's the only one prepared to be President from Day 1?? I guess I don't want to see her blubbering in tears on the phone when Ahmadinijad and BinLadn call to congratulate her, and say they're still going to nuke Israel and the US into oblivion. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa. LOL. I cant make up my mind if it's pathetic, or hilarious.

Chuck and Ron wrote on Jan 7, 2008 1:32 PM:Honestly, if we didn't have Chuck and Ron to laugh at everyday, what would we talk about? You have to admit they do bring a sense of vaudeville to our discussions. LOL. I will almost be sorry when the elections are over and their kind have nothing more to say as they get left far behind with their old, outmoded ways of thinking.

Chuck wrote on Jan 7, 2008 1:39 PM:>>Focal Point wrote on Jan 7, 2008 12:50 PM:Chuck wrote on Jan 7, 2008 6:14 AM: You heard. Do you have any documentation at all for your hearsay?>> I Googled on "troops mistreated oakland san francisco" and a few articles came up. So, I tended to believe what I had heard. Plus, if the troops were going to be mistreated, Oakland and SF will always be the prime hate spots for it to take place

Ron wrote on Jan 7, 2008 1:55 PM:And come to think of it... Aren't we now discussing releasing "supposed" low-risk {whatever that means..} prisoners because we lack enough funding? I mean.. really. Single payer prison system...

Ron wrote on Jan 7, 2008 2:02 PM:I don't know.. "Iran Provocation"
@1:06 PM, but if your strictly keeping a numbers count, I'd say: They.. the Iranians have been involved now in "Two" different confrontations. The first being with the Brit's, and capturing their sailors. Now this. That's why it's called BDS. Bush Derangement Syndrone, but it must also be Blair Derangement Syndrone? It is just amazing how quickly some will go to defend known terrorists.

Wistfully remembering wrote on Jan 7, 2008 2:18 PM:Ah, yes, the glorious days under Clinton when we were one nation, undivided, without partisan hatred or presidential derangement syndromes. I miss them too. Well ok, the Iranians messed with the Brits. Now let's count the false alarms sounded by the Bushies about the Iranians. The weapons. The engineers we arrested until told by the Iraqi government that they were invited to help build the country. The nuclear threat. On and on. I am ashamed to say that in terms of pure objective numbers, the Iranians are actually winning in the truth department. But of course the yahoos will find that impossible, and will deny that Bush has been wrong about anything, and will insist that the Iranians have actually lied about everything. The Bush and Clinton type leaders love Americans like this, who will follow and obey no matter how false or illogical.

Focal Point wrote on Jan 7, 2008 2:20 PM:Chuck wrote on Jan 7, 2008 1:16 PM Was that one of the ships that was harassed?

Focal Point wrote on Jan 7, 2008 2:22 PM:Ron wrote on Jan 7, 2008 2:02 PM:I don't know.. "Iran Provocation" Are Iranian sailors at sea flying their national ensign terrorists?

I followed Ron's advice wrote on Jan 7, 2008 2:23 PM:to 12:46 This is quite astounding. Ron's advice was to read everything. This bothers you, I guess. But I stated quite clearly that I didn't know who or what to believe. (Here's my quote, "So, of course, we don't know the truth.") But you come back as though sure I said I could only believe foreign media. Don't you see how simply you are manipulated? You see the words "Al Jazeera" and your mind leaps to the attack, not even bothering to read what I wrote. You are a good citizen for someone like a Bush or a Clinton to jerk around. When the bell rings, you salivate on cue, no questions asked. Just what's needed in a citizen of a democracy in a complicated world.

Ms M wrote on Jan 7, 2008 2:28 PM:To Chuck at 1:11Pm - I think the HATE thing started around 1992 when Bill was elected and the Repubs spent 8 yrs. and millions of dollars trying to GET him. Even you can agree to that! Oops I forgot silly me - it's all the Dems fault!

Focal Point wrote on Jan 7, 2008 2:31 PM:Chuck wrote on Jan 7, 2008 1:39 PM:>>Focal Point wrote on Jan 7, 2008 12:50 PM Well, Chuck took your advice and looked it up. None of the troops was harassed or protested by any of the citizens of Oakland or San Francisco, New York City or
Ramstein. The same procedure was followed at all three airports which is basically meant to keep troops in transport together. I can not imagine it being implemented without the planning and full knowledge of the NCO or Officer in charge.

To 3D wrote on Jan 7, 2008 2:52 PM:From Bill. As you know the posts we make late usually do not appear until the next morning. I read your comment written at 10:52 PM Sunday. By coincidence without seeing yours I had written almost a reply to it about an hour later. Thomas Jefferson was a very interesting person and I commented more about him in the second to last post on yesterdays list. I would add my comment that it was not disengenous of me to mention my 725 page book about the Christian activites of George Washington and comment that revisionists have denied it. I previously verified this by going to a large bookstore and checking the indexes in about a dozen books on George Washington pulled off the shelf at random. Not one of the books I checked said he was an active Christian or that the influence of Christianity played a significant role in his life style or world view. Several of the books were totally silent on the subject. And Several had a sentence or two saying he was a deist, or part of the enlightenment.

to Chuck @ 1:16 wrote on Jan 7, 2008 2:54 PM:As I said, and repeated at 2:23, what I said was I didn't know what to believe. My point was that Bush's many misrepresentations or errors have led me (and most Americans by a large majority) to be skeptical of his claims. Like Al Jazeera, it's stuff I have a hard time believing, and you might notice that I felt this was a sad situation. Maybe some of you guys need a primer on how to simply read before you leap to your prearranged (and small variety of) conclusions. This is, by the way, especially comical coming from you, Chuck. You are the one here who repeatedly claims that all the mainstream media are, in essence, identical to Al Jazeera anyway. My goodness!

Chris to Nick wrote on Jan 7, 2008 2:54 PM:I guess that you couldn't come up with a reasoned answer to my blog so you put out some gobaldy gook. What do you mean it wasn't Palestinian land. Oh, that means that this wasn't Indian land when we pale faces came here. That makes perfect sense to imerialist. Did you read the blog about the truck bombs being used by the Zionist in order to get the Palestinians to leave. The blogger said it was in Harpers. I will see if I can find it but I think you will just ignore it.

Alf wrote on Jan 7, 2008 3:04 PM:$600 dilar hammers, indeed! I'll try again with $600 "dollar" hammers. "Chuck" at 6:01AM, our Constitution is not "toilet paper", it is not a "general guideline" that you use when you must, it is not something that you "pick and choose" which parts fit your convenience for this or that. Those that want child molesters put away for life or executed have a simple solution, change the sentencing guidelines. I know that what I suggest is too simple for emotional reactionaries who don't give a crap about the Constitution, but it is all that is required. And it can be done without violating the Constitution. As far as the 2000 foot provision or the GPS monitoring of offenders convicted before the passage of any given law or Proposition, that dreaded Constitution and its prohibition of "punitive ex post facto laws" will stay until there is a Constitutional Amendment that rescinds it. The same prohibition of "punitive ex post facto laws" that protects previously convicted molesters also protects you from any "after the fact" punishment for any crime that you committed (such as all DUIs must report to prison based on a new law even though the people have served their time or completed their sentence 3 decades ago). Regards, Alf.

Alf wrote on Jan 7, 2008 3:05 PM:"Jack" at 8:05AM, don't you mean IRAN??? Regards, Alf.

Focal Point wrote on Jan 7, 2008 3:21 PM:Nick wrote on Jan 7, 2008 1:10 PM:T I know a substantial amount of their money is given by the USA. Israel even has a fund for the Palestinians which it releases to them periodically. I rather doubt that Fatah is obtaining any monies from Iran since Hemas is their favorite. Hezbolah pretty much operates in Lebanon does it not?

Focal Point wrote on Jan 7, 2008 3:24 PM:Chris to Nick wrote on Jan 7, 2008 2:54 PM: Haganah was the Jewish guerilla group that used bombs. They bombed the King David Hotel. The British branded them terrorists.

Alf wrote on Jan 7, 2008 3:31 PM:Instead of the "liberal and progressive" North county Forum meeting, I suggest a NCT comments contributors meeting. We could have the widely diverging opinions of people such as "Karl" and "Nick" and "Chuck" and "Ron" and "Chris" and "DD Wiz" and "theWolf" and "Reardon" and "Conservative-1" and "Concerned-1" and anyone and everyone else that I haven't listed as well as the "To" or "to" people" who wanted to be there, meet, see who they are debating with, get to know what the moderators must edit andhave a good time. Some of you are now out-of-state, that does not preclude your getting to know the people behind the "handles". The day and time and location are up for grabs. Anyway, it is an idea. Waddya thunk? Regards, Alf.

Chris to Nick wrote on Jan 7, 2008 3:36 PM:Well I checked it out and the blogger that talked about the Zionist use of truck bombs was accurate although the first use of such a device was used years earlier. So go to google and type in "truck bombs in 1948. Not only that but the Haganah killed 267 Jewish refugees supposedly by accident but there is speculation it was done on purpose so the British would change their policies concerning emegration. Check it out, I have a whole list of terrorist activites committed by the Zionist. Oh, I know you don't care about Israel but just