The Hard Truth.... wrote on Jan 9, 2008 11:45 AM:is that soon this page will be filled with bloggers who claim to be veterans. Of course they expect us to assume they know everything about every military matter because they served in some branch of the military at some time. Guess what? Their prior service makes them experts on NOTHING! Nothing except how to push a broom and/or make a bunk. Listen you wanna be GI Joes, no one cares about your "tour of duty" in the national guard in the 1980's. Keep your warped opinions to yourself...

mark wrote on Jan 9, 2008 2:02 PM:It's interesting how the US government will move heaven and earth to protect private security contractors from the consequences of killing and injuring dozens of Iraqi commuters. The Marine Corps on the other hand has shown a willingness to second guess it's troops actions after very intense battles. They seem to have no hesitation about punishing any actual or even perceived mistakes committed by 18-24 year old.

Veteran wrote on Jan 9, 2008 2:10 PM:To Hard Head...Truth. And your point is......?

Outraged wrote on Jan 9, 2008 2:45 PM:I am sick and tired of our govt trying the very men who are serving their country. Aren't you?

PUFONG wrote on Jan 9, 2008 3:17 PM:Hard Head: I was in the Army and the National Guard both. I learned far more about the military than doing menial work. Having said that, I can sympathise with Sergeant Wuterich, because I UNDERSTAND what he has gone through, having been there myself! Serving as I did, does give me some expertize, unlike those who don't have a clue about military service.

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Jan 9, 2008 4:49 PM:As in the cases of the P8, all of this is already decided by the government. In the case of Sgt. Hutchins he was expendable to protect the government's agenda; so, now it depends on just how expendable Staff Sgt. Wuterich is in the scheme of things. It has nothing to do with Justice. The UCMJ is preordained to protect the power structure of the military and the power and agenda of Congress; nothing more. In other words, the Harry's, Jay's, Chris's, Citizen, and all the other bloggers who've been disgustingly anti-justice for months, can celebrate because they never had to worry after all. Preordained. No Justice America. Enjoy it while you can; the enemy is.

of course AW4cryinoutloud knows all wrote on Jan 9, 2008 5:34 PM:We can count on her to know all about every criminal case the military is trying. It is amazing. Military personel are perfect and do no wrong. Then why do we have brigs full of active duty military??

stopthenonsense wrote on Jan 9, 2008 5:52 PM:how can this country send our best into battle and side with the enemy?

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Jan 9, 2008 5:53 PM:To the post at 5:34PM: AW4 knows more than you think. FYI: AW4 does not blog about or know all about every case the military is trying. AW4 never said she did but thanks for the compliment. AW4 also never said military personnel are perfect and do no wrong, but AW4 has said that our military is being screwed over by an abuse of power within. As for your idiotic question as to the brigs and their prisoners, I don't suppose that, with all "your" intelligence, you ever heard of the Prison Industrial Complex? I don't suppose you've ever heard of the lives of a governmet's own citizens being expendable for the agendas of those in power? I don't suppose you've ever heard of many cases of accused being found to have been unjustly convicted? I don't suppose you've heard much more than your own bias toward our Marines so just continue with your anti-troop attitude. I'm sure the enemy is tickled to have bloggers such as yourself.

Al wrote on Jan 9, 2008 6:28 PM:While in the Marine Corps, I came across a device for people like you. It fits securely in your navel and permits you to see. Once you obtain this clear piece of circular glass, use it and finish your blog statement.

After reading it, I could only conclude thjat you have an IQ that when squared, it gets lower.

Please, prove me wrong.

And in other news wrote on Jan 9, 2008 7:03 PM:BAGHDAD — Nine American soldiers were killed today in the first two days of a new offensive to root out Al Qaeda in Iraq fighters holed up in districts north of the capital, the U.S. military reported Wednesday.

Lee wrote on Jan 9, 2008 7:14 PM:Looks like my earlier comments made around 2:45 p.m. were not released/ censored . Don't know which. They were successfully sent by answering the puzzle.

Wonder if that was because Gates was in the area and the North County Times didn't want to rock the boat, today. It's not Sunday.

In a nutshell, my comments were that Wuterich - when he is held to account for these murders will more than likely get off with a demerit or two and lose TV privileges for a bit.

They were only Iraqis...... It is a foggy war.........
We can't keep making excuses.

to AW4WhiningOutLoud wrote on Jan 9, 2008 9:22 PM:whoaaaaa, conspiracy theories?? grassy knolls?? flying saucers?? we are being sprayed, I saw smoke trails in the sky today!!!!! I spent enough time in the Corp to know what goes on.

Chris wrote on Jan 9, 2008 10:05 PM:Twenty four people dead and all were unarmed civilians in their homes. Many were women and children. The Marines who did it tried to cover it up. The Marines were not under fire. Can we just let the court do it's job without coming out here vilifying the militay or government. I do a lot of that but at least I wait until they deserve it. Just wait until it is over.

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Jan 9, 2008 11:28 PM:To the blogger with no name at 9:22PM: Did I mention anything about grassy knolls or flying saucers? And just what the hell is being sprayed? You didn't clarify. Of course NO government would ever do an injustice to any of its citizens or its military, and of course the UCMJ is perfect and totally protects the rights of all of its accused service members, and of course you know all about it just by the mere fact that you were a Marine. That's comforting. I'm happy for you that you never had occassion to witness "reality". IF you were a Marine, why is it you aren't standing up for them? You take the word of insurgents; which led to this whole thing in the beginning. Were you in court at the trials to witness NCIS caught in lies that were totally ignored? Try it some time. Witness it first hand. Until you do, don't presume to pull the "I was a Marine" routine on me. I'm proud of the Marines who serve this country but not all of them have the guts to stand by their own.

Wade wrote on Jan 10, 2008 5:42 AM:If you are able to read this and have the freedom to type these blogs thank a teacher. If you read and write this in English thank a Marine.

WVJ wrote on Jan 10, 2008 9:15 AM:I will pray for Marine Staff Sgt. Frank Wuterich peace of mind and for his acquittal.

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Jan 10, 2008 10:19 AM:To Chris: I've heard of people being in denial but you've gone way over the top. Your comment that, "The Marines were not under fire" is unbelievably ignorant. Have you read anything at all about Haditha? 4cryinoutloud; read something for once. Even the prosecutor admits the Marines were under fire. Please tell me you're not in the news media. Our Marines are in trouble enough without another "If It Bleeds It Leads" mentality, regardless of the facts or regardless of whether or not something is actually verified.

SIMPLE SIMON wrote on Jan 10, 2008 11:19 AM:Does anyone see a similarity between Wuterich and Lt Calley, between Haditha and MyLai? Remember those who rushed to the defense of Calley and how they glossed over the truth? Think about it.

Why thank a marine? wrote on Jan 10, 2008 12:17 PM:When did the USA face an invasion? The Marines have mainly been an expeditionary force used to quell disturbances in the US colonies around the world (like Iraq). I speak and read english and I will thank a teacher and an aclu lawyer for that. Don't kill non-white people in my name.

Concerned-1 wrote on Jan 10, 2008 2:25 PM:Don't kill non-white people in my name? What? Should we kill white people in your name?

esteban wrote on Jan 10, 2008 2:52 PM:I support the troops, right or wrong. Let them be free! A few Iraqis ARE expebable!!!

Bo wrote on Jan 10, 2008 3:34 PM:The only American criminals in this war reside in the White House! War is hell and innocent people die. Like it or not that's how it has always been. We can't blame the Marines for these deaths, we can only blame the Adminstration that sent them to Iraq under false pretenses with no plans on how to get them out of this White House created mess.

WVJ wrote on Jan 10, 2008 3:36 PM:TO: Why thank a marine?

Are you sick. What are you talking about? Have you no comprehension of the story? Did you read it? This Marine acted in war. War, do you know what that is?

TIGMOTHER wrote on Jan 10, 2008 3:40 PM:This country was founded to get away from atrocities, not to defend them! We should show the world that we will NOT tolerate atrocious and criminal conduct, and especially not when a Marine or other service member is the perpetrator. Let justice prevail and if this man is found guilty, he should spend the rest of his days at hard labor in Leavenworth Pen! Simple Simon has it right, AW4 has it not only wrong but monstrously wrong.

To Outraged wrote on Jan 10, 2008 3:50 PM:I am outraged that some chickenhawk cowards that have never worn a uniform manipulated intelligence, lied to the American people and the UN, invaded a sovereign county when inspectors had found no WMDs, and used and are continuing to use our military to line their pockets.

Chris to AW4 wrote on Jan 10, 2008 3:54 PM:I watched a sixty minute interview with a Marine that was there. I won't bother to look up his name because responding to you isn' worth that much time. Anyhow he described what went on. Quite frankly I am fed up with your insults.

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Jan 10, 2008 5:45 PM:What is a TIGMOTHER? Sounds weird. Must be something important. I wonder just how TIG thinks we're going to show the "world" we won't tolerate atrocities. Oh! I already know. We eliminate those who "cause" them. We eliminate the barbaric, insane, inhumane beheading enemy. How's that for a start? I guess TIG expects our Marines to not defend themselves. I guess TIG expects all Americans to take the word of insurgents rather than our own. As for Justice, TIGMom; there is no such thing under the UCMJ. Research it, study it, and for every supposed protection of the rights for an accused I'll show you another that totally obliterates it. There is NO comparison between our Marines and what happened at My Lai. Who is the idiot that started that comparison anyway? Most likely the media in its rush to represent themselves as nothing better than soap opera writers. There is rarely fact reported or anything verified. Justice? Dream on TIG!!!

To Chris wrote on Jan 10, 2008 5:45 PM:The person interviewed in the 60 Minutes piece that you refer to was Sgt. Wuterich, the subject of this article. It's amazing that you post derogatory, judgmental comments here when you don't even know who/what you're talking about and ADMIT it.

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Jan 10, 2008 5:53 PM:To Chris: You're sick of my being correct. That's your problem. You say you saw a 60 minute interview, yet you don't know who the bajeebers it was. Now that would be the kind of testimony the prosecution would use in court to ruin the lives of decent men. Gads! Please don't tell me you're one of the prosecutors. I don't care what you're fed up with, just as you don't care that I'm fed up with the persecution of these Marines.

Mom of Marine wrote on Jan 10, 2008 6:18 PM:To AW4cryinoutloud: I know that you, (like myself) were involved in one of these cases and you, like myself, keep up on what is going on with all of them. You, like myself were present in the courtroom at times in these cases and are privy to alot more information and have seen first hand how things work and how they don't. I have always wished the best for all of these Marines being prosecuted for doing their jobs....as for the rest of these bloggers...Most of them don't know JACK and they never will. Not until this is happening to one of their son or daughter. Nor have most of them ever seen combat and are totally CLUELESS as to how that works and what it is like. I think we need to just chalk them up as IGNORANT...and ingnore their hateful, uniformed, stupid comments. That is what I have come to try to have to do. Their comments do not deserve the time of day that is given them. tj

TIGMOTHER wrote on Jan 10, 2008 8:35 PM:I think Mom of Marine and AW4 are the same person, but whatever. Being a spectator in a court room does NOT qualify this individual(s) as an expert in any case. This is a self-appointed know-it-all who really knows only a scant bit from what they read in a newspaper or saw on TV. Come on people, we're dealing with allegations of war crimes here. Not some silly, maudlin, hysterical recitation of pseudo facts and falsehoods and half truths! As for combat experience, neither AW4 nor her alter ego personally claim that, so what's with this posing and posturing as somebody who knows so much about it?

Jay wrote on Jan 10, 2008 8:39 PM:AW4 speaks of herself in the third person now. Wonder what her shrink thinks of that?

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Jan 10, 2008 8:44 PM:To Mom of a Marine: Yep, and not going to stop. I too, chalk it up to ignorance of the reality of what's happening within the military judicial system. Beyond that, anything else is as bad as having the enemy within.

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Jan 10, 2008 8:50 PM:To Jay: For you, it wouldn't matter how I refer to myself. I wonder what your analyst thinks of your obssession with me. How sad!

Mom of Marine wrote on Jan 10, 2008 8:58 PM:The comments of TIG and Jay absolutely prove my point.It shows and PROVES how little you KNOW. It's almost funny that they did it so quickly...(without even thinking.) No I am not AW4. Being in the courtroom DOES give us some expertise in the goings on of the case we were involved in. I also know from personal experience (not self appointed know it all...you seem to have grabbed up that title TIG) that you can't believe half of what you read in the newspapers or see on TV AND they are only getting a SCANT bit of the real information. No...I have not been in combat, but know lots who have...one being my son! I care little what you think of me...You are uninformed and far too judgmental to place any importance on that.

Chris to to Chris wrote on Jan 10, 2008 9:08 PM:What seems to be your problem. Since when was my comment on this blog derogatory? I thought that is who it was but you know I see and hear a lot of things about the war in Iraq and remember the gist of it but I don't allways offhand remember the date or the name of the person that brought it up. Thanks for verifying that the sixty minute episode took place. All I said was to let the trial take place instead of getting out here and blowing off a lot of steam before all the facts come out. I have had previous experience with AW4 and that is why I said what I did. But as far as I am concerned you are out of line to talk about so-called derogatory and jugmental remarks I made just because you like AW4 have it in for me.

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Jan 10, 2008 9:25 PM:To TIGMOTHER: What is a TIGMOTHER? Just curious. How laughable. You think Mom of Marine and I are one and the same. You're as wrong about that as you are about everything else. I just finished blogging to Mom and up popped your silly comment. Perhaps you and Jay are one and the same. It just goes from bad to worse doesn't it? I never said I was qualified as an expert; thank you for the compliment. But, being a spectator in the courtroom, knowing those charged, knowing the families, knowing the friends, knowing one of the attorneys, and speaking to Congressman Delahunt's representative who was there every day of Sgt. Hutchins unjust court-martial, qualifies me for one hell of a lot more than you can offer. It qualifies me as a witness, first hand, of a system of military justice that protects those in power and sacrifices those who aren't. It qualifies me as one who has learned that government can abuse its power at will and nothing is done about it. You said it yourself; we're dealing with ALLEGATIONS of war crimes. Just where did those allegations originate? Let me help you; they originated with false accusations from insurgents in a known insurgent infested town called Haditha. They originated with a Time magazine reporter, Tim McGirk who used Iraqi stringers to get his information that he never verified. If you are so all-knowing, then you should know the rest. As for combat experience; you must be hallucinating. When the devil did I ever say I had any? Gadzooks! You couldn't pay me enough. Have you been there? Have you fought? How much combat experience have you had? Just curious. You and Jay must have the same analyst. Seek help from someone else.

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Jan 10, 2008 9:33 PM:Oh Good Grief Chris! Nobody has it in for you. You've been sticking your foot in your mouth for months. It's just too difficult to ignore comments that are insulting to our Marines. Your eagerness to accept every negative word from the prosecution and ignore the defense as if it didn't exist, is worrisome to say the least. Your constant defense of their accusers makes me ill. It's just as simple as that.

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Jan 10, 2008 9:40 PM:Anybody know what a TIGMOTHER is?

Chris to AW4 wrote on Jan 10, 2008 9:58 PM:There are 24 dead Iraqis and many women and children. The Interveiw with Wuterich on sixty minutes was pretty clear. Why did they lie about it. Your problem is the problem too many Americans have and that is blind hatred for the Iraqis. You can try to cover it up but is is apperant what is going on. Yes I am outspoken but for this blog I toned it down and just said to let the trial go on instead of putting out all this hate before it even starts. The only thing I hate is the murder of all these poor people that had nothing to do with attacking us. I see they have come up with a figure of 150,000 and four million displaced. That is something that we should be angry about but I know I am wasting my time.

TIGMOTHER wrote on Jan 10, 2008 10:15 PM:You get an F in reading comprehension. My post says, " neither AW4 nor her alter ego personally claim that, so what's with this posing and posturing as somebody who knows so much about it?"So I didn't say you "had any," [combat experience] as you so wildly deny that you do. If your claim and the claim of this person claiming to be a service member's mother is that you have a deeper insight and knowledge of this case than I do because you have been in the courtroom shmoozing with the defendant and his counsel, then you have shot yourself in the foot (or put it in your mouth). That shows your how totally slanted and twisted and biased your weak opinion is. Your mordant comments merely indicate the depth of your utter ignorance of this and the other cases you prattle and rattle about.

Mom of Marine wrote on Jan 10, 2008 10:42 PM:AW4...I see only one blog from you to me...guess you got censored by NC Times. And once again, I can rest my case with the comments of "TIG" As to your question...What is a TIGMOTHER?... I don't think it would be fair to speculate without any further evidence or explanation. See how that works, people? Certainly I wouldn't judge it as being something bad, just because of the way it sounds. Things are not always as they appear to be or as they are presented. See how that works, people? However, I can draw from her comments about us that she is uniformed and judemental...so, I'll stick with that! The same could be said of NCIS and the prosecution. You have to consider the source. See how that works, people! And TIG...after seeing your 10:15 comment, now I am going to be "mordant." You must be quite s-e-n-s-i-t-i-v-e .... You must be projecting. 'Tis YOU indicating your utter ignorance of this and the other case AW4 and I speak of. Have you been schmoozing with insurgents???

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Jan 11, 2008 12:29 AM:To Mom of Marine: Hi Mom. I started to turn the computer off but came back to see if anything new. Gimminy, I can't even speculate on the TIG thing. I have no idea whatsoever it could be and not sure I want to know. I'm well aware I piss off a lot of people. I could care less. After watching what they've done to Larry and the others, and more to come, I'm out of patience with people who profess to be Americans. They're not like any American with whom I'd ever have associated. They're beneath those who serve this country. I was sitting here thinking just what you commented on and am in full agreement. I sometimes wonder who those who protest true justice for these Marines are shmoozing. No American who believes in the ideals that formed this country could ever defend those who bring harm, whether it be physical or psychological, to our own. They're defiinitely shmoozing the wrong people. If not, they may as well be as far as I'm concerned, and they can flap their jowels with idiotic, stupid, childish words all they want. They just steel my resolve to do whatever I can to help any of our troops when an injustice is done. Political correctness and shmoozing be damned. I don't need to shmooze. The people I've met are real. They, and their families, are what makes me proud to be an American. AW4.

TIGMOTHER wrote on Jan 11, 2008 11:55 AM:You two remind me of the groupies who haunt our courtrooms and are attracted to serial murderers and write them love letters. Whatever. When all is said and done your incessant babbling won't matter. ...

Mom of Marine wrote on Jan 11, 2008 4:59 PM:ROTFLMAO......If TIG only knew!! Now all I can do is laugh at her comments.

TIG must be..... wrote on Jan 12, 2008 12:40 AM:The Ignorant Gadfly! That fits with the comments. I, for one, am and have been, sick and tired of all these sit on you but at home bloggers making judgements on all of these brave young men who VOLUNTEERED to put on the uniform and be ready to lay down their lives for people like this. None of you were in Hamdani, Haditha, Fallujah, and have no idea what these men went through. I'm tired of being nice about. SHUT UP! YOU DON'T KNOW ... Try looking in a mirror and JUDGE YOURSELF...yeah...that's alot harder, isn't it.

PUFONG wrote on Jan 12, 2008 11:41 AM:I was in the Army and so I know military service. Having said that, there is no excuse for what Wuterich [allegedly] did. None whatsoever. TIGMOTHER has it exactly right! As for those bloggers who sympathize with war criminals, you are beyond the beyond! Put on their uniform to lay down their lives? Give me a break. Most are from the south, were unemployed and looking for work. The standards have been lowered for military service, so there is a higher percentage of misfits.

chris wrote on Jan 12, 2008 12:19 PM:You send people to war to do the dirty business of war and then you punish them for it. Shame on the military heirarchy for this. That makes the soldiers live in more stress/danger second-guessing themselves and makes them more likely to be hurt by not taking action because they fear prosecution.

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Jan 12, 2008 11:12 PM:To TIGMOTHER: Your comment at 11:55AM on the 11th has got to be the most ridiculous mouthful I've yet to read. First of all, Mom is the mother of a Marine. You, apparently are the mother of a TIG; whatever that is. Grow up! I know the proud mother, father, and brother of an honorable Marine who was unjustly accused and convicted. He has a wife and child. Get your mind out of the gutter. There are no 'love letters'. ... (edit) The military does not allow 'groupies' or love letters from anyone other than spouses. As for your "incessant babbling" comment; just another example of childish hatred of the troops and anyone who supports them. My goodness, Mom of a TIG, I do believe you have a big case of envy going on. Enjoy it! I am!!!

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Jan 12, 2008 11:30 PM:To PUFONG; whatever that is. You said it yourself, "what Wuterich [allegedly] did". So, why do you refer to him as a war criminal? TIGMOTHER has absolutely 'nothing' right and neither do you. Where in the world did you come up with the comment that most of those who serve are from the South? Mind giving us your reference for that idiotic comment, along with the other idiotic comment that most were unemployed and looking for work? AWshucks! I know! A PUFONG must be a nickname for John (foot in mouth) Kerry. Now it all makes sense.

GO FIGURE wrote on Jan 13, 2008 7:57 PM:And here is yet another clear case of NCIS total incompetence...NCIS thought these two were on friendly terms, therefore didn't watch or suspect this guy...hmmmm...GOOD GOING NCIS, but about par.

http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2008/01/14/ap/headlines/d8u5bn7g0.txt

Mom of Marine...surprise!!! I won't jump to persecute or defend this guy, but, doesn't look good for him. We shall see what happens.

To PUFONG wrote on Jan 14, 2008 11:49 PM:You were in the Army...when? Were you ever in combat...infantry....Which War? There could be a dozen or more REASONS, not excuses, why Wuterich did what he did...It may have been necessary to save fellow Marines. You weren't there...so you don't know. You only ASSume "there was no excuse." I won't "give you a break." These young men DO put on the uniform KNOWING they may have to give their lives fighting! Did you not know that when you put your uniform on? As for the Hamdania case, none were from the south, all were employed or in school, and none were misfits. As far as I know, none had a criminal record of any kind. Even IF the military lowered their standards...that does not mean that everyone who joins the military is of lower standards. But your comments ARE!

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Jan 15, 2008 12:09 AM:To the post at 11:49PM: "DITTO"!!!

PUFONG wrote on Jan 15, 2008 1:44 AM:To anonymous post at 11:49PM (1-14-08): Suffice it to say that I have had enough military service to know its stress. As for defendant Wuterich, the record speaks for itself. ...

Mom of Marine wrote on Jan 15, 2008 7:16 PM:My apologies for forgetting to sign my screen name....I did not mean to be "the anonymous post at 11:49. To TIG...I AM the Proud Mom of a U.S. Marine (for real, not just a claim), not that I give a hoot if you believe me. To PUFONG...your answer tells us NOTHING of your military "record"...and in your next sentnce, feel you have a right to judge Wuterich's "record." If you read all accounts...Wuterich had a good military record. Was a good Sgt. and was respected by his fellow Marines. Of course only going by the reports given out so far. I don't personally have his full military record in front of me...and my guess is that YOU do not either. That sort of makes your last comment a moot point, now doesn't it?

first hand knowledge wrote on Jul 4, 2008 3:47 PM:We are fortunate enough to live in a country that allows freedom of speech, the ability to bad mouth our government and not be executed in the street like an animal in front of your children. No one knows precisely what happened that day in Haditha. Unless you know how it feels to gear up and leave the wire with your life in the man to your flanks (sides) hands and not know if you will return on your own two feet, don't judge their actions. Once bullets fly, you have mere seconds to make decisions that mean the life and death of your men, and those around you. I have made those decisions, lost men, and have the right to argue these points. Support your troops, because I guarantee if we are ever invaded, full scale, then you will want the troops to defend you and your families. When I said, full scale, about an invasion, have no doubt we have been invaded, we just can't tell them apart due to our diversity of cultures. Sleep well and god bless my brothers and sisters standing their posts.