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ID debate also permeates elections
By: EDWARD SIFUENTES - North County Times
Supreme Court to decide on identity proof for voters | ∞
When you cast your vote, some Americans feel you should have to show a card proving your identity. Others believe just as strongly that such a requirement would be undemocratic.
This perennial debate has found its way, again, to the U.S. Supreme Court. It has also roiled San Diego County politics as local leaders and activists stake out sides in a struggle that could sway upcoming elections.
The arguments, even the sense of the scope of the potential problem, split largely along party lines:
Republicans tend to worry a great deal about voter fraud;
Democrats tend to be more concerned about voter disenfranchisement.
At issue is nothing less than the integrity of U.S. elections.
As Californians prepare to vote in the state's earliest-ever presidential primary Feb. 5, concerns over citizenship, identification documents, elections integrity and partisan power are being heard at every level of U.S. government.
"Voting is a fundamental right," said Andrea Guerrero, a field and policy director with the American Civil Liberties Union in San Diego. She said laws that require voters to show proof of identity "don't prevent fraud, they create excessive burdens on voters."
Others disagree.
"I believe that's a bogus argument," said Bob Huff, a Republican assemblyman from Diamond Bar, who wrote a bill that would require people to show proper identification before voting. "There is just so few (people that don't have an identification card), and it's so easy to get a government ID card."
The officials in charge of San Diego County elections say that voters trying to vote illegally is not a common problem here. But local politicians say they want the laws changed to protect the integrity of the system.
A pair of bills, including Huff's legislation, that would have required a photo identification card before voting were recently defeated in the California Legislature.
An Indiana law that says voters must show a government-issued card to vote was debated before the U.S. Supreme Court earlier this month.
The lawsuit filed by civil rights groups, including the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People and the ACLU, claimed the law discriminates against large groups of minorities and the poor who might not have a government-issued card.
The U.S. Supreme Court is expected to render its decision on the Indiana law in June.
Fraud not biggest problem
Guerrero said worries over voter fraud were missing the larger problem.
"I think we already have a problem in San Diego with voter turnout in which less than 20 percent of the electorate come out to vote," Guerrero said. "We should be thinking of ways to get people to vote."
Some Republican lawmakers say the reason voter fraud is not detected is because it is so easy to break the rules.
"If there was fraud, we don't know about it because we can't ask," Huff said.
Huff pointed to the case of a Fair Oaks couple who were sentenced to 60 days in jail for illegally voting in a school district election. He also noted that voters in Mexico are required to show government-issued voter identification cards.
Senate Bill 173, a proposal similar to Huff's bill, was defeated Thursday in the state Senate Elections Committee.
State Sen. Mark Wyland, R-Carlsbad, sponsored a similar but unsuccessful bill in 2005. Wyland's bill would have required an additional step by mandating that people show proof of citizenship before registering to vote.
State law requires that voters sign an affidavit stating they are U.S. citizens and provide an identification number, such as a driver's license number or a Social Security number. First-time voters who register by mail must submit a copy of a driver's license card or another document showing the name and address of the person.
San Diego County Registrar of Voters Deborah Seiler said the information provided by voters can be used to compare with information kept in state databases, such as the Department of Motor Vehicles records.
Seiler said she could not recall seeing any cases of people misrepresenting themselves at the polls.
Other issues
A more common occurrence is that people who are paid to register voters forge information for financial gain, Seiler said.
But that usually does not translate to people showing up to vote illegally, she added.
"If we do have evidence of fraud, we pass it along to the appropriate officials," Seiler said.
Local Republican leaders have also raised the specter of illegal immigrants voting.
In 2006, Rep. Brian Bilbray, R-Solana Beach, who was campaigning for the 50th Congressional District seat, seized on a comment by his Democratic opponent, Francine Busby, that he said sounded like an encouragement for illegal immigrants to vote.
At an Escondido event, a Spanish-speaking questioner told Busby he wanted to help her campaign but lacked voting papers. The question was translated into English and she responded to the largely Latino audience, "Everybody can help. You can all help. You don't need papers for voting, you don't need to be a registered voter to help."
Bilbray criticized Busby, saying she was encouraging possible illegal immigrants to volunteer for the campaign. The Republican Party also aired a radio ad that said, "That's right. Francine Busby says you don't need papers to vote."
Other local officials have struck a similar note warning against noncitizens voting.
In a guest editorial published in the North County Times two years ago, county Supervisor Bill Horn wrote, "We have a right to know that only American citizens vote in our elections. Proof of citizenship when registering to vote helps ensure that democracy is protected at the polls."
Horn's Op-Ed article came on the heels of a unanimous vote of the San Diego County Board of Supervisors supporting measures requiring proof of citizenship before voting.
Guerrero dismissed those arguments, saying that the lawmakers are "chasing a ghost."
"There's a lot of problems in the migrant community, but they are not trying to vote," she said.
A 2006 report by the federal Election Assistance Commission said that there was little evidence of widespread voter fraud.
"More researchers find (voter fraud) to be less of a problem than is commonly described in the political debate," according to the commission's report.
It added that: "There is widespread but not unanimous agreement that there is little polling place fraud, or at least much less than is claimed, including voter impersonation, (such as) 'dead' voters, noncitizen voting and felon voters."
Contact staff writer Edward Sifuentes at (760) 740-3511 or esifuentes@nctimes.com.
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Ray wrote on Jan 20, 2008 1:30 AM:Hey Eddie, the ACLU and all the bleeding hearts, Being a citizen means you have to take some responsibility for yourselves. Today you need an identification to get a library card, cash a check or open account, use a credit card, drive, why not for voting. Besides Mexico has a voters identification card, so there! forgot that information in your story.
Registrar of Voters is Full of it wrote on Jan 20, 2008 1:42 AM:A few years ago I contacted this paper and every paper south of the grapevine about how I registered my dead sister to vote in Arnold's special elections. I did not have to provide anything just filled out the card and within a few weeks, she was a voter, a democrat. I advised the Registrar about this and he just blew me off. My sister died in 1976 and not in California. Election fraud? Si.
slappy wrote on Jan 20, 2008 2:00 AM:"There's a lot of problems in the migrant community, but they are not trying to vote," THE BIG LIE!
Poll worker wrote on Jan 20, 2008 3:58 AM:The goal should be no fraud. This is an important issue in tight or contested election. Poll workers aren't always well-trained - I know I wasn't. There was a huge learning curve. Voters were concerned about signing in pencil vs pen. Many were concerned that there was no paper trail. I was too. Let us not even talk about the list of dead people! It gives one pause.
Poll worker wrote on Jan 20, 2008 4:09 AM:Let me give you an example. Picture a very busy polling place. We have the 'good list' OK - no problem. We have the questionable list - dead or ? We have 'provisional ballots.' An individual comes in with no English, no address, no clue. We offer him the 'provisional.' Let the main office figure it out. He declined the 'p' and 'El Grupo' was seen in said polling place. You might ask what criteria is needed to be a poll worker??? Nobody asked me.
Jake wrote on Jan 20, 2008 4:34 AM:I really don't understand why voting should be exempt from validating one's identity. We already show a form of identity (most of the time a government issued one is required) for airline flights, medical treatment, credit card usage, access to purchasing alcohol and tobacco (for the younger generation), passports, etc. Is the right to vote any less important?
Period wrote on Jan 20, 2008 6:28 AM:"Others believe just as strongly that such a requirement would be undemocratic."
American is not a democracy. We are a representative democracy. There is a difference. If issues were actually taken to the people, our county would be very different.
Billy wrote on Jan 20, 2008 7:17 AM: The current situation that causes the subject of proof of voter ID to brought to the forefront disturbs my stomach and brings a bad taste to my mouth. However, One person one vote lends itself to proof of ID. I would rather prove my identity at the polls rather than allow one person not qualified to vote do so. Now that act really bring a bad taste to my mouth. I wonder why the requirement has not been put into force before, and then it came to me. It was impossible before the coming of the computer. And it took awhile for the bugs to be worked out of that machines workings. But now I'll bet most voter are already in a computer system and it would not take very much to write a program similar to a credit card company, and issue a card, with bar code, that would prove the holders ID. A finger print reader could be incorporated. The last time I was at the CA DMV they took a copy of my finger print. What it boils down to is protecting our US citizen rights, the thought of an illegal alien or a person voting twice or more, and canceling out my vote really brings a bad taste to my mouth.
PJ wrote on Jan 20, 2008 7:43 AM:Considering the number of non-citizens in this country, requiring voter ID is a no-brainer. Of course, the Democratic party is courting these illegal votes and thereby encouraging people to commit voter fraud. The continued theme here is that the government is not doing its job of enforcing the law. I have no faith in the Federal government and little faith in the State.
GhostsHuh wrote on Jan 20, 2008 8:01 AM:If we're 'chasing a ghost', then I'm sure Andrea won't mind us passing the law requiring proof of ID. After all, it won't affect anyone but ghosts.
waterlily wrote on Jan 20, 2008 8:40 AM:To all Americans.Take care of your country.Proof of I.D is not a big issue,it's for the good of all citizen and your kids in the future.Support I.D. GOD BLESS AMERICA.....
WhoWhat wrote on Jan 20, 2008 9:30 AM:Not only do we need to show an ID card but a REAL-ID or national ID card verified through a central data base, there are too many discrepancies between states, presently a person could have 51 different ID's. This would simplify (not complicate) our nations voting and immigration issues. It would not disenfranchise anyone as you cannot live in this country without ID anyway, lets standardize the process.
Democrat Robert wrote on Jan 20, 2008 10:18 AM:Stop with the stupid concept that tamperproof ID's should not be required!! We all know illegals are voting and they are only voting for liberal democrats. One illegal vote subjects our entire system to decay!! Require positive ID by all and tell the ACLU to take a hike!!
Bo wrote on Jan 20, 2008 10:56 AM:The problem with requiring an ID for voting is that it is one of many tactics that was employed by Southern States as recently as the late 1960's to prevent the Black community from voting.
The Republicans wrote on Jan 20, 2008 1:36 PM:want to have each voter show three or four pieces of ID in order to vote. This will make it difficult if not impossible for many voters to go to the polling place. Furthermore we all know from the 1950's and 1960's that minorities' identifications will be scrutinized and rejected on the slightest pretext while wealthy whites will breeze on through with nary a paper or card. What is wrong with republicans? Why do they hate the working man and woman so much? Its sad.
Matthew wrote on Jan 20, 2008 2:34 PM:Period, a "representative democracy" is a "democracy." Adjectives specify, not erase, nouns.
Karl wrote on Jan 20, 2008 3:12 PM:"The Republicans" us Republicans do not hate anyone especially the working man and woman as you state. I am a working man myself. What we abhor is the lies that come from people like you such as "want to have each voter show three or four pieces of ID in order to vote". What a load of manure. You you be ashamed of yourself for promoting your party with bald faced lies like that. If your intent is to have illegal immigrants vote to further your parties goals you will reap what you sow.
To Karl and the of the GOP...... wrote on Jan 20, 2008 3:28 PM:To Karl and the rest of the GOP kool aid drinkers. I agree with the poster at 1:36pm. The current legislation for voter ID act requires three pieces of government issued ID. The ID required include passports, vehicle registrations and driver's licenses. All of these assume that the person be wealthy enough to drive a car or travel internationally. So once again the corrupt Republicans are trying to limit the right to vote to white people with money. Many elderly vets and women do not have the forms of identification even though they are American citizens. What's wrong with the GOP you ask? They are rich fat cats who don't want poor, non-white "trouble-makers" to vote. Look at the state of Mississippi, that's what the GOP wants all of America to be like. Their thinking is :"Gots to keep them minorities in line." Rupublicanism is another workd for neo-facism.
Greg in Oceanside wrote on Jan 20, 2008 4:57 PM:I don't know about people who claim to have registered dead relatives, but I know that when I go to vote, I'm asked to show an ID. I certainly hope ID's are required. Illegal aliens should not get away with any privileges here, including the right to vote, period.
WhWhat wrote on Jan 20, 2008 6:06 PM:To: "To Karl " You seem to have all the answers, you must have gone to public school to learn your liberal spew. 1 form is all thats needed to register AND vote, maybe you should READ the story before commenting. Typical lib, the facts never matter..
Roberto1 wrote on Jan 20, 2008 8:21 PM:Illegal working people sneaking around voting...LOL!...ya can't even get 25% of the legal registered voters to the polls.... I guess there all busy getting benefite Americans don't qualify for according to the Phobes. Before ya start, these are generalities also and yess if you dig an example for this oint exist somewhere.
Hat to Admit This wrote on Jan 20, 2008 9:14 PM:But if the cost of controlling ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS is strong I.D. technology, then let's do it! I think it is inevitable anyhow. The Gov't is already using all the biometrics tech. It is bound to be a part of everyday life sooner or later.
Non Bilingual wrote on Jan 20, 2008 10:09 PM:I have an ID and show it everywhere I am asked...but this election more emphasis is getting the pollworkers who speak Spanish......so all will be taken care of....for more money....
Democrats have always relied on fraud wrote on Jan 21, 2008 10:42 AM:Fraudulent voting has kept the Machine Politics in New York, Boston and Chicago in power for decades. The dead voting in Chicago, courtesy of the current mayor's father, gave JFK the election in 1960. Dems whine about Florida 2000, where it was their own voter's illiteracy that cost them the election, but the only presidential election we KNOW was stolen was the 1960 one. Of course the left doesn't want people to have to prove they are who they say they are, have the voter rolls checked, or require that someone demonstrate the least bit of interest and literacy (get an ID and register themselves) to vote. They rely on those who won't lift a finger for themselves to get elected.
Pavlov wrote on Jan 21, 2008 2:05 PM:The Mexican voter ID cards are a dubious protection. I worked temporarily, as a visiting American, for the Mexican government. They offered to give me one "as a souvenir" if I voted for "the correct candidate". I declined their offer.
jsc wrote on Jan 23, 2008 2:52 PM:We need to do everything possible to avoid voter fraud. However only 1 picture ID should be required. If a citizen cannot afford a California ID card, let them state so, and receive it for free. Or lets get on the bandwagon for a national ID card, recognizable everywhere, with some biometric info to prevent fraud. BTW I have voted in every election since I turned 21 (36 years ago) including absentee when I was out of the country! If someone is not willing or able to make the effort to get an ID, should they be determining our country's course?
Roberto1 wrote on Jan 24, 2008 11:20 PM:I too have voted in every election and I'm 53 years old...with that said, auditing for fraudulent voting is more cost effective.... in Venezuala where I once worked they dip you pinky in ink so you can't vote more than once as the ink takes a long time to wear....you should see how many people vote so they can show off their pinky...
Shell Answer Man wrote on Jan 27, 2008 4:31 AM:A country that values its democratic process and truly believes in equal rights for all legal citizens might deem it reasonable to foot the cost of the one and only tamper-proof ID for all legal voters. Wouldn't our taxes be well-spent on this??? Why can't this be done? We can put our taxes toward everything else...why not this? Cost shouldn't be the deciding factor.
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