JSten wrote on Jan 27, 2008 5:35 AM:I guess all that education was for naught. It didn't take a genius to foresee this eventuality. Whenever you have this kind of delusional behavior in a market, where costs and value become totally disconnected, this will be the result.

citizern wrote on Jan 27, 2008 6:18 AM:When Lovell talks about having every amenity she could want that is part of the problem. People spent and didn't save making sure the had a new SUV and that their children had new cars and name brand clothes without planning for the future. Yes it is sad and I feel bad for them but when you live beyond your means because you are riding high on what the economy was this is what happens.

...Nothing New... wrote on Jan 27, 2008 8:16 AM:...
Nothing new here. Move on. Everything will work out OK in the end.
..

blamesprawl wrote on Jan 27, 2008 8:47 AM:The old-school, good ol' boy governments in Temecula/Murrieta (& Oceanside) share much of the blame for rubber-stamping sprawl developments. By drooling over the potential property taxes of large single-family houses, the cities set themselves up for this type of crash by putting all their eggs in the basket of their backers. Now, they're stuck with costly roads and infrastructure to maintain without the future tax revenue they claimed would pay for it. I'm not looking forward to bailing them out.

Get ready wrote on Jan 27, 2008 8:53 AM:Murrieta! This is when your city really is going to start looking like Moreno Valley. I saw this coming two years ago and fled back to San Diego.

YGMMLMM wrote on Jan 27, 2008 9:03 AM:Here's my two cents: You don't gamble when purchasing your home. This foreclosure crisis is simply because most took out ARMs/interests only loans that have now reset. All was fine when home prices were going through the roof. Now that they have stopped (like they always do) now it's time to blame everyone else but yourself.

To blamesprawl wrote on Jan 27, 2008 9:44 AM:Sorry blamesprawl. Housing is driven by supply and demand not governments who supposedly rubber stamp developments. If the governments goal was only to bring in lots of money, then any city council worth its salt would simply build a commercial base and have as little housing as possible within it's boundries and let the surrounding cities populations drop tons of dough in their coffers.(see Cities of Commerce and Industry). Your simplistic analysis (blame government and politicians on the take) doesn't take into consideration the market forces, social needs, economic needs and service needs of an expanding population of people. Your "don't build and they won't come" theory just doesn't hold water in the real world. Personal responsibility is a huge factor in this. Questionable lending practices that allowed people that couldn't really afford a house to enter the market and create more demand which drove up prices is another one.

The roads wrote on Jan 27, 2008 9:46 AM:in Temecula Murrieta area are a joke. No other place allows you to build homes first and then worry about the infastructure later. When a contractor cries to me about specs. and says "In murrieta they let me do that" I tell them to go build there then.

To blamesprawl wrote on Jan 27, 2008 10:02 AM:You're clueless. The home approvals came in the 1970s when Kaiser Development bought and recorded title on the ENTIRE VALLEY. It was the COUNTY that approved all those homes, not Temecula, not Murrieta. These cities incorporated to put a stop to the rampant growth, but the courts sided with the developers who purchased property in the 70s knowing they could build X-number of homes. The number of homes was set in stone and inherited by these cities that incorporated in 1988. They took control of their fate and started providing parks, schools and the infrastructure that the county had failed to provide. As I said before, you're clueless about history and the court actions that allowed all the home construction to contnue.

Greg in Oceanside wrote on Jan 27, 2008 10:04 AM:It always amazed me at the number of people who jumped into the feeding frenzy in the housing market that was going on in SW Riverside County. When you combine these shady loans with the abundance of homes, this collapse in the market was only a matter of time and ultimately inevitable. I used to travel up there to officiate youth sporting events and would see working class living beyond their means with expensive SUV’s and recreational vehicles in the driveway. For a bit I was under the impression I might have chosen the wrong line of work and thought these working class (tradesman) were more successful than those of us who went to college, worked our way up the ladder the slow and steady way, and used tried and true methods to get where we're at. But, it's obvious fiscal restraint and conservative spending was not part of the equation.

crash wrote on Jan 27, 2008 10:07 AM:So much for the soft landing all the pundits (and Bush) assured us was coming.

To "the roads" 9:45am wrote on Jan 27, 2008 10:14 AM:Clearly, you haven't been paying attention. Before getting ONE BUILDING PERMIT, developers in Temecula paid for and completed Winchester road widening, Winchester Road Bridge widened twice. BEFORE BUILDING PERMITS WERE ISSUED the Rancho Cal bridge was widened twice plus the Margarita widening, Ynez widening, built the Overland Bridge, all sports parks built, all regular parks, library, community theater, museum, children's museum, etc. Developers have paid FIRST. In fact Lennar completely built Ysabel Barnett Elementary before receiving ONE BUILDING PERMIT and forfeited all the right of way for the French Valley Parkway - $44 Million in all! Wolfe Creek built the sound wall, trails, green belt, Birdsall Sports Park, and the soon-to-be widened Pechanga Parkway. It would have been done sooner but the Federal Highway Administration sat on it for 18 months! You are obviously ignorant about how things have gotten done in Temecula. Murrieta is a different story.

Means wrote on Jan 27, 2008 10:23 AM:People need to start living within their means and stop trying to live up to the Joneses....

Murrietan & not surprised wrote on Jan 27, 2008 11:11 AM:I saw the writing on the wall when the people next door bought their house, then the dune buggy, then the toy box for the dune buggy, then the motorhome to pull the toy box for the dune buggy. Then they put in a pool, a spa, and an outdoor fireplace with TV built in. The street and schoold weren't even finished in our neighborhood and the homes just kept springing up. It was crazy. Now the neighbors are bankrupt, no toy box, no dune buggy, green pool, dead lawn - and the street and school STILL aren't finished. Welcome to Murrieta, land where homes and toys come before streets and schools.

BTDT wrote on Jan 27, 2008 11:19 AM:Why is there so little compassion for people who have been caught up in this madness? While some of those losing their houses undoubtedly spent beyond their means, a lot of others are more victims of circumstance. I moved to the Escondido area in 1988 when I got a new job in the area, and in 1992, my company went bankrupt and I was out of a job. My house had lost 20% of its value in the interim and without a job I had no choice but to let the bank foreclose. I didn't have an adjustable loan, but that didn't really matter in the end. Not everyone losing their houses is a deadbeat who gambled with their future, people.

TO To Blamesprawl wrote on Jan 27, 2008 11:45 AM:Thanks for the history lesson. It puts things in clearer focus.

I was not aware of the information you provided.

to BTDT wrote on Jan 27, 2008 11:59 AM:Because I am working two jobs and will soon be taking on a third to make things work for us. I drive a 2002 Echo that has 174,000 miles on it. My daughter has worked and gone to school since she was 16 years old. I look at the people who drive the huge SUVs and have all the toys and no I don't have sympathy for them. I am sure there are some who don't fit this catagory and to those I apologize but most don't.

JP wrote on Jan 27, 2008 12:56 PM:'Barbara Baker, a real estate agent in Murrieta. "It makes it impossible for someone with a job offer elsewhere to get fair market value.'

Apparently, they never taught this used-house-salesman that "Fair Market Value" is EXACTLY the price where a transaction can occur in a market.

Perhaps this agent yearns for an UNFAIR market value that is skewed towards improving her commission?

oldtimer wrote on Jan 27, 2008 1:16 PM:Well, I don't feel much sympathy for people who took on debts they could not afford to pay. But IMHO, the core problem driving all of this is that incomes are now too low compared to the cost of living and the chickens are finally coming home to roost. When this began in the '70's--a working man could not make enough to support a family--all the wives went into the workforce, too. Now everybody is working, a surprisingly large number of people are working more than one job, subprime has imploded, and there are no more options to call on to stay solvent, let alone buy a house. Unless families start moving back to the rust belt where homes are $50,000, or unless our esteemed govt. suddenly legalizes polygamy, this game is over.

great news wrote on Jan 27, 2008 2:08 PM:This is great news for first-time buyers.

northbeacher wrote on Jan 27, 2008 2:21 PM:Laura Lovell, didn't you and your husband put anything away for a rainy day? Can't you go out and get a job and help pay some of the bills? Come on, a 2100 $ mortgage payment isn't that big a deal. My husband and I pay that much or more, and we managed to max out our 401Ks and save an additional 30K last year. How? We live WAY below our means. It isn't that hard to do.

LauraL wrote on Jan 27, 2008 2:39 PM:We did not have amenities that included dune buggies, toy haulers,Luxury SUV's, pools or designer clothes, most of what we have were hand me downs and my children are all under 10. We did not spend more than we had on frivolous things. If anything, we scrimped and saved so that I could be a stay at home mom to my children. We did not have any need for luxuries other than a nice tv and a few computers. Staying home with my children was my luxury.
Even though it is what should be the norm. So our children are supervised instead of running around the neighborhoods. We did not seek to keep up with anyone, we bought a house that was 200,000 below others in Murrieta in 2004, because we did not want much, just a regular house with a yard to raise our kids. We are the victims of circumstance alone, we did everything right and by the book and we would have been fine even with our mortgage increasing, except for the lack of jobs in the engineering field. I just dont see how people can continue to blame the innocent victims in these situations, does it make some of you feel better to blame us as opposed to just chalking it up to an unfortunate occurence?. I want you all to know, it can happen to you, even though you ARE living WELL below your means. The people that are losing their homes are nice normal hard working families with job losses and lay offs in real estate, engineering, construction, contractors, appraisers, mortgage brokers, loan officers...all moms or dads who were the only source of income. Its not their faults they choose this industry. Its not like they just chose these professions in 2003-2004, its just what this collapse has effected. We will perservere.

David W wrote on Jan 27, 2008 2:56 PM:WHOA THERE! This newspaper does NOT have the facts correct - I just analyzed the MLS data for the "AREA" and find totally different results. First of all just in zip code 92563 there were 43 sales in December 07, (CLOSINGS) and 58% WERE NOT Bank owned properties, and more importantly SALES PRICES WERE 96.6% of LISTED PRICES. Furthermore, in our marketing area (only the Cities of Murrieta, Temecula and the adjacent areas of Wildomar, Menifee, and Sun City and the nearby county areas)there were 254 sales in Dec 07, with 72% not BANK OWNED and Sales prices were overall 95.1% of List Prices. I have the back-up data for all of this and would be glad to share it with anyone. Lets get things straight!! Things might not be as good as we would like BUT it is important to be accurate. When the news media is not accurate, many people are hurt....I believe it is criminal to damage everyones property values by spreading false information.

Sad commentary wrote on Jan 27, 2008 3:28 PM:Each circumstance may be different, but I found the quote attributed to Ben Leau where he didn't seem too concerned about the pending auction, but rather was more excited about the prospects of getting into an even larger, nicer home. The mentality suggested by such comments is perplexing and consistent with *some* of the drivers behind this crisis. Namely 1) the lack of saving 2) failure to understand your finances and make good choices and 3) greed and pride. I moved her in 2006 and purchased a home that has potentially lost nearly 20% of its value in Murrieta and now that my company has created an opportunity for me that requires a move, it is frustrating to be impacted by those that have made such poor decisions.

David W. wrote on Jan 27, 2008 3:40 PM:To Laura L. and others in her situation: Good for you! You are absolutely right, it's too bad the news media is making it worse with "sensational" inaccurate info (see my other post). I am a Realtor, and have been for many years. The are in my view a number of real culprits in this mess, YOU are certainly not one of them. Banks have made bad decisions and in many cases not given homeowners the opportunity to work out solutions, partly because they just weren't staffed to handle the onslaught of problems (but whose fault is that). They are indeed losing more by taking properties back and holding them (at a huge cost) and then unloading at low prices (hurting the rest of the owners in the area). This has been compounded by the "panic", at least partly caused by the media. I suppose the real issue might be the general suffering of our national economy (caused by the huge expense of the war??) At any rate, if our leadership in Congress really wants to put things on the right track - a program insuring that homeowners who have recently lost their homes would be able to purchase again at "reasonable" rates you could then buy your house (or one like it back from the bank at an affordable price) If we would see tax credits (sizeable - like $20,000) for home purchases instead of a measly $300 tax refund, it would cost us less and yield much greater results, don't you think?
Additionally, I know Barbara Baker, the Realtor attacked by another reader, and would like to say SHE is an outstanding PERSON, a very compassionate, professional, one of the best in the business.
Sincerely, the best of fortune to you !

Curtis wrote on Jan 27, 2008 4:10 PM:Easy come easy go. It used to be that you would save your money to come up with the down payment to buy the house. Everybody has gotten use to the easy way with no down payment. I hope they keep this going and don't change anything. The government needs to bail us out!!!!

Eric wrote on Jan 27, 2008 6:21 PM:This is ridiculous:

"In one word: terrible," said Barbara Baker, a real estate agent in Murrieta. "It makes it impossible for someone with a job offer elsewhere to get fair market value. It's awful. I've been here since 1980 and I haven't seen it this bad."

Fair market value = the amount someone will pay. It is possible to get fair market value and still lose money. Typical REALTOR® thinking.

David W wrote on Jan 27, 2008 8:00 PM:To Eric and Jp and anyone else who ignorantly professess to know more about the Real Estate Business than a seasoned professional: Here is the definition of "Fair Market Value" You might want to note the expression below "unencumbered by undue pressure" this probably what Barbara Baker is referring to ...when a person is relocating for a job that could be "undue pressure"....so my advice to you would be learn a little more about what you referring to before attacking someone..in regards to their profession....would you like to share with us what you do for a living??? ."Definitions
There are numerous definitions of fair market value for various purposes and jurisdictions. A highly general definition is:

It is the most probable price at which a good or service will exchange, expressed in terms of cash or equivalent, in a free market assuming:
A knowledgeable and willing seller unencumbered by undue pressure to sell and acting in his own best interest
A knowledgeable and willing buyer unencumbered by undue pressure to buy and acting in his own best interest
A reasonable time for exposure in a free and open market.

To David W wrote on Jan 27, 2008 8:33 PM:I have to laugh when realtors tell people not to print anything negative about the housing market because it will damage people's property values. Can you say house of cards? What does that tell you about the REAL value of these houses? Where's all that pent up demand you guys were talking about last year?

Reply wrote on Jan 27, 2008 8:36 PM:I have seen how things are done in Temecula and Murrieta guy. Ignorant? I don't think so, as I have personal friends as well as colleuges who work as contractors and inspectors in that area. Winchester road widening project was a joke that drug on forever with houses going up and traffic flow increasing the entire time. The building specs in that area are a joke and the engineering plans look like cartoons.

Good Stuff wrote on Jan 27, 2008 8:45 PM:Yeeeeha Affordable housing crisis solved. Stop the density bonus laws. There are plenty of homes for cheap that nobody wants to buy.

TO David W wrote on Jan 27, 2008 8:51 PM:This might be worth a follow up story??? I'd like to see the reporter's take on your numbers. Personally, I think bad news sells papers; the media needs momentum to keep their product growing. I haven't seen too many stories about the positive angles...good time for stable first-time buyers to get in to the market. Why not encourage the young couples who have some money saved and have a chance to get a house. It's like a redistribution of wealth. Wait. That's right. It sounds better to say the sky is falling. If things get better, what will the paper write about?

Strictly for the Realtors wrote on Jan 27, 2008 10:47 PM:You guys have some real guts to show your faces around these parts. First class skunks, thats all I can say and have it printed. Calling a salesman a professional is little bit of stretch don't you think? The criteria listed for a market price were met, these properties have been on the market for months, often with no takers. I think what you're eroniously trying to say is that it isn't that the prices being asked are too high, its just that there aren't any real buyers. Its a miniature example of what is playing out in a large scale on Wall Street for the securitized crap mortgages. The banks prefer to say that there are no buyers than to say at the true market price, they're insolvent. You guys think this is such a great time to buy, why are you complaining and not snapping them up yourselves. I'm seeing Realtors defaulting on property in my area.

Home for sale wrote on Jan 28, 2008 7:37 AM:I have a job transfer out of state but due to this mess I cannot sell our current house in this area. In an attempt to keep our house from falling into the foreclosure we will rent our place. Fortunately we had money for a 20% down payment and did not refinance for all the toys. It's just really sad that the lenders have allowed this to happen by giving unqualified persons loans for.

To Strictly for the Realtors wrote on Jan 28, 2008 10:24 AM:Interesting comment: "Calling a salesman a professional is little bit of stretch don't you think?" speaking of guts.....WHAT DO YOU DO FOR A LIVING???? anything???

Joe wrote on Jan 28, 2008 10:30 AM:What makes people think anything is for free? Buying houses they can not afford, paying no downpayments, or only interest loans......when they normally can not even qualitfy for loans. Then they want the government and tax payers to bail them out. We who have to suffer from your ignorance have to pay our mortages and still bail you out. How selfish can you be?

Floyd wrote on Jan 28, 2008 11:33 AM:A realtor is just a shill for the seller and is not working in the best interest of the buyer. This is something they don't say and hope you'll never discover (if you're a buyer, that is). Calling a realtor a "professional" just cheapens the meaning of the word.

g wrote on Jan 28, 2008 11:50 AM:The neighbors right next door lost there house back in Oct. 2007. They pulled all the equity on house (1) to buy a bigger house (2). Now house (2) has a NOD because that house was an intrest only. I have no sympathay for them.

Joe wrote on Jan 28, 2008 1:00 PM:The laws will have to be changed. If you can not afford a loan and a house, you simply do not get it. There is way too much welfare out there now and too many people get something for nothing.
California is becoming a welfare state and we need to wake up and make people responsible. Now Hemet will be opening low income housing for the very poor old people.....Hemet is already been exploited as a welfare town. We have the homeless shelters, county services for the poor, and the list goes on.
Hemet used to be a nice, safe place to live to the city council decided to get HUD housing and thousands of Orange county and L.A. county [residents] moved in......the crime rate skyrocketed.Now they want to build more welfare housing, and who will live there? More dumps from L.A. and Orange county. Recently the news announced that the crime rate decreased in L.A.....of course, they moved out here and now are doing their crimes here, in Hemet, Temecula and so on......

to home for sale wrote on Jan 28, 2008 1:03 PM:Sorry to hear of that you're in a pickle. You can sell that house any time you want, the only problem is that you have to take the going value for that house, not last months, or last years value. The loose credit (and resulting high prices) we've experienced won't return in real terms for a generation. The only time you literaly can't sell the house is if a lien holder won't be made whole by the sale, in which case you're upside down. In that position I'd recommend a short sale, or barring that, surrender the collateral to the bank and take your lumps. Your credit will be clear by the time the housing market is worth entering. In the mean time rent a nice house from someone that isn't upside down for less. One more piece of advice, if you shake hands with a realtor again, make sure you count your fingers afterward.

T0 9:48 "to the roads" wrote on Jan 28, 2008 3:27 PM:Who are you trying to kid? You are living in la la land if you think no permits were issued prior to improvements in Temecula. The Rancho California widening occurred well after it was needed due to west side commercial development. Part of Wolf Creek is Pechanga Parkway, which is NOT done and there were homes being built well before other peripheral roads were being put in. The Winchester Road improvements were in response to the Mall and the horrendous traffic jams that eventually required Temecula to go back and tear out existing improvements to make them even wider. The economic dynamics that affect road building are the same in every city. Fooling the public into thinking that Temecula did it differently or more responsibly is nonsense. In fact, the absolute worst traffic in southwest county is still in Temecula. Enough with the self promoting fallacies.

LauraL wrote on Jan 28, 2008 5:22 PM:Why did people assume we didnt put any money down either? We lost 80K of our OWN money down. Guess we did save for that rainy day....

Jason wrote on Jan 28, 2008 9:48 PM:"The people that are losing their homes are nice normal hard working families with job losses and lay offs in real estate, engineering, construction, contractors, appraisers, mortgage brokers, loan officers"

So maybe it's not really so bad! The downturn in the housing industry is bringing pain mostly to people... in the housing industry!

Seriously, if you bought a house on a teaser-rate ARM, you did one of only two things: You couldn't get a fixed-rate loan and bought beyond your means, or you gambled that you could refinance. Either way, you took a risk, and you lost.

Nobody made you buy that house. Nobody forbid you to buy something smaller, something without your own lawn for your four kids under 10. Circumstances sure hurt you, but you made choices that left you no cushion when things went south. You can't control the circumstances, but you alone control your choices, and these are the consequences. Have fun rebuilding your credit, and be smarter next time...

Venus wrote on Jan 31, 2008 6:40 PM:Laura - you don't have to prove any thing with a bunch of ... Please know my prayers are with you and your family and to all the other people who are losing their homes and may you all be blessed and have another home some day. The rest of my comments are for the [others]... Yes - the banks tried in many ways to help a lot of people buy homes and considering that wages have not creep up with house values - at least the banks tried. I know a lot of people have and will lose their homes - but... a lot of people will also keep their homes and, if nothing else - at least the price for homes will become affordable again. What the banks/investors tried to do with zero down and some of the loans is a lot bigger than most people will ever understand. Also, as in your case as you can tell by reading some of these comments - some people are just heartless and are worried that they too can lose their jobs and homes.

Venus wrote on Jan 31, 2008 8:13 PM:Well, I am a saleperson and I am very professional and so are the other realtors. As a realtor, I love my job and what I do! So, watch out - you never know when you may need a realtor or a bank/loan officer again because it will be us who turn this train around. You all will love us when your homes and areas get their value and equity back from us selling homes in your area. So, listen up, with a little help from the EMPLOYERS who are NOT paying their employees decent wages to buy a home - banks will create some MORE loan programs for buyers to buy homes. Speaking of employers, can anyone imagine Countrywide giving their CEO $29- million dollars for him to retire early? Real Estate has and always will turn our economy around and because as you can see our country and the world for that matter depends on us moving and shaking our economy. As a matter of fact - the world depends on realtors, banks and home builders. Have you notice how many people are getting laid off? Have you notice that without building permits and fees it is hurting your city halls and no real estate taxes is hurting your state? Haven't you been reading/watching the news... how Wall Street is just whacked OUT? Our economy, home loans, and investments including real estate goes beyond Wall Street - this is global! Why don't some of you-the souless ones say some prayers for your neighbors who are losing their homes because as some of you can see foreclosures will have a direct impact on your property because it's not about your tax dollars bailing some one out of trouble - foreclosures in your area will have a direct impact on your home which is your investment! Also, a lot of the foreclosures are not related to families or buyers who selected the teaser loans - a lot of investors have committed fraud by buying any where from 2- 8 homes only to suck the equity out and walked away from the properties. Also, many banks/lenders required appraisals to inflate the home values. And, a lot of new home builders also inflated their properties and inflated some of the buyers income.

Venus wrote on Jan 31, 2008 9:22 PM:To Floyd and to 9:48

Floyd, it is obviously you have no clue regarding a real estate purchase and sales contract. A realtor can represent the seller and buyer as long as that information is disclosed and the parties agree. Of course, the realtor that list the property - is employed by the seller. In most transactions regarding buyers - agents can represent the buyer and not the seller. As a matter of fact - a lot of agents work with/for buyers only. All purchase and sales contracts have an area for agents to check regarding who they represent- and by law this section on the purchase and sales contract must be completed.

To 9:48 - I have been a realtor since 1992. Last year 2007, I sold 67 homes - and I haven't collected any fingers yet. What ugly advice you give about shaking hands with a realtor.

J wrote on Mar 18, 2008 9:18 PM:It is a very uncomfortable feeling to be living in Murrieta right now. I was a bit unlucky to have relocated for a great job at just the wrong time but was also quite foolish to buy with no money down at what was just the beginning of the downturn. For me it is not the mortgage that kills me but the property taxes. I don't see how the government can justify property tax rates upwards of 2%. But just as the people who bought beyond their means are reaping what they sowed, the government will as well when the homes lost to foreclosure result in less tax income. I do think that it is poetic justice for people in the housing industry to be getting laid off after enthusiastically pushing their blind optimism (or outright deceit)on the general public. Although there are certainly some very decent people in the housing industry, I think that they are the exception more than the rule.

What I really do not understand about this whole situation though is why banks are so adament about people contacting them when financial troubles arise and then behave an uncooperatively as possible. And why do banks refuse short sales and then take even less for the house in an auction? That business model is as flawed as the 0% down mentality (which I am also guilty of). I don't have any sort of real estate expertise, but it makes sense to me to really try to get into a less expensive home and then let the one you are in go (a neat little trick if you can pull it off). Why would someone continue to pay on their $500K home when they could get a comparable one for $300K? Because their credit would be trashed? It seems to me that bad credit would actually help a lot of people because they would not be able to leverage their credit into a mountain debt by buying all the toys their hearts desire.

I love this area, but how can a city based almost completely on service industries survive when people cannot even afford their homes? People facing foreclosure will cut out things like eating out, golf, luxury cars, pools and extravagent landscaping which are pretty much the only industries we have here. I would like to be optimistic but there doesn't seem to be any logical reason to be. Best of luck to everyone in a dire situation.