City staff trying to block "McMansions"

By: AARON CLAVERIE - Staff Writer
Planning Commission will hear architect's side of story tonight | Monday, February 4, 2008 10:46 PM PST ∞

LAKE ELSINORE -- The Planning Commission will decide tonight if "McMansions" are a good fit for a Lake Elsinore neighborhood.

The architect for seven proposed homes has called his design "McMansion" in style. The city's planning department believes "McMansion" has a negative connotation -- a term used to describe "cookie-cutter" homes that don't mesh with surrounding homes.

The commission is being asked to weigh in because the architect, Larry Vesely of Riverside, and the city's planning staff have been unable to come to an agreement on what would be an appropriate architectural style for the homes planned for a vacant lot near Summerhill Road and Scenic Ridge Drive.

"We have decided to agree to disagree," said Lake Elsinore Planning Manager Tom Weiner, describing the standoff.

If the commission agrees with the planning department's recommendation tonight and denies the Vesely design, the architect said Monday his clients, Cesar and Mireya Andaya of Riverside, are prepared to appeal the commission's decision directly to the City Council.

The commission meets at 6 p.m. in the Cultural Center, 183 N. Main Street.

The neighborhood in question, which features mostly two-story ranch homes built in the late 1990s, is east of Interstate 15 off the Railroad Canyon Road offramp.

Since the summer of 2006, the Andayas have been working on building the homes on a cul-de-sac called Boulder Vista Court that will connect with Summerhill.

After reviewing the initial design submitted by Vesely, Lake Elsinore's planners asked him to describe the type of architecture. He said it was Spanish-colonial. The staff didn't agree, asking him to strengthen the Spanish-colonial influence by adding flourishes such as recessed windows and wrought-iron railings.

In response to those suggestions, Vesely submitted documents identifying the homes as "McMansion" in style and he provided background information on "McMansion" architecture printed from the Internet.

Changing the description -- and changing it to "McMansion" in particular -- didn't settle the matter for the staff.

Weiner said the first design didn't -- and the new design doesn't -- mesh with direction from the City Council, which has been trying to encourage a varied mix of homes in the city and stay away from homes with a cookie-cutter feel to them.

"(The design) didn't add any type of flair to the neighborhood," he added.

Vesely said he was amazed to find out that City Hall has recommended denial.

"It is very rare to have this happen. I have never had a project denied without (the administration) even working with us," he said.

Responding to Weiner's contention that the homes need more Spanish colonial-architectural flourishes, Vesely said, "We have that."

He continued: "This is a seven-lot infill project. Everything around it is already developed and we're consistent with the surrounding homes and a step above."

Vesely said it sounds as if his project is caught in the middle of some internal discussion at City Hall.

That's one of the reasons why he and his clients wanted to take their pitch directly to the commission.

"Once they see the presentation, I don't see how the commission would not approve it," he said.

Planning Commission Chairman Michael O'Neal said he was told by the city's planning department that the proposed development fails to meet minimum design standards and the architect has decided not to work with the staffers.

"He has asked to take it to the Planning Commission level and present his side to the case. I'm interested in hearing what the developer has to say," O'Neal said.

-- Contact Aaron Claverie at (951) 676-4315, Ext. 2624, or e-mail aclaverie@californian.com.

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21 comment(s)[-]Go to Top

Bam M wrote on Feb 4, 2008 10:13 PM:Wow! Actually asking a developer to build something other than a cookie cutter stucco box? What a concept.

matt wrote on Feb 4, 2008 11:09 PM:what is a mcmansion? it reminds me of mcdonalds haha

Carlsbad wrote on Feb 4, 2008 11:52 PM:McMansions in Lake Elsinore? That's like calling a junky old chevy a luxury car. Who the heck would build anything nice there?

Roberto1 wrote on Feb 5, 2008 3:44 AM:Large tract homes as opposed to small tract Homes...why would they find this term offensive? maybe they should get another McJob.

bill wrote on Feb 5, 2008 6:53 AM:The architect and builder clearly don't understand how things work in Lake Elsinore. Somebody in city hall, or on some committee, must realize a personal profit or the plan is killed. It's always been that way and always will.

Cookie cutter? wrote on Feb 5, 2008 7:22 AM:NCT's reporter was wrong in the second paragraph. McMansions, although perhaps carrying a negative conotation, are far from the cookie cutter homes that litter the landscape of seedy little beach towns like Carlsbad that think they are more upscale than they are.

Olaf wrote on Feb 5, 2008 8:17 AM:MacMansions are stucco boxes and if it wasn't for concerned planning commissions and City Councils you would have them all over the place. Developers always want to put in the cheapest least attractive home and then sell it to the sheep as they come in and graze. Good for the planners and the Planning Commission if the reject this. Do not settle for junk, the developer is probably only making 10 million so if he makes 9 he will complain.

Glamis Cowboy wrote on Feb 5, 2008 8:21 AM:I had just about enough of them outta town yahoos coming to town and making a joke outta this here place. Take their cheeseburger designs and go home. Build something nice around here instead of just giving us more cheapo fast food housing.

gene wrote on Feb 5, 2008 8:52 AM:Whatever happened to PROPERTY RIGHTS? I wouldn't want the Lake Elsinore City Council (of all people) to make decisions on the property I OWN.

davo wrote on Feb 5, 2008 9:10 AM:McMansions are well just go to Carlsbad and have a look

Local Native Californian wrote on Feb 5, 2008 10:23 AM:I agree with 'Roberto l' that maybe the city people need a new McJob and I DOUBLE agree with 'gene' who wrote "whatever happened to PROPERTY RIGHTS?" I'm a forth generation local born and raised right here I've seen property rights go down the toilet so bad that I'm thinking about selling all my property here and going somewhere else where 'Big Brother/Sister' government is not so invasive but WHERE? Anybody have any guesses where that might be other than in the next world other than this planet?

biker wrote on Feb 5, 2008 10:45 AM:I moved to elsinore so I could do as I want to. Don't need no pretty little track houses here man. Those rich dudes don;t like my el camino sittin on blocks out front, and they disrespect my pit bulls too. Just nice pup dogs. Elsinore rocks, you rich and edumacated folks stay over on the coast!

Former Elsinore Resident wrote on Feb 5, 2008 12:01 PM:The area in question is a more upper middle class part of Lake Elsinore. Yes Lake Elsinore does have some very nice areas, contrary to what people who never go to Lake Elsinore think. But anyways I think a few council members live in that relative neighborhood, maybe that’s why they’re being particular about this project. Whatever their reasoning I agree with city government whenever they stand up for the aesthetic quality of their city. So good job city council.

that whole area.. wrote on Feb 5, 2008 1:11 PM:Southwest Riverside County is ugly and is a pit. All you see are tract homes stacked on top of each other. And now...alot of them are vacant with dead lawns.

Roberto1 wrote on Feb 5, 2008 8:24 PM:I cannot believe the controversy over these McMansions...Like I said before, why not? and why does anyone want to dictate higher end housing after they screwed everything else up? they need to be ousted from office, find another mcJob...so I say McDump them and soon!

paradigm design wrote on Feb 6, 2008 10:24 AM:I'm all for individual property rights, but when poor design, bad planning, and cheap development (all in the name of the almighty dollar) impact my own property and the neighborhood at large, it becomes more than just an individual property rights issue and becomes a neighborhood/city issue that requires a neighborhood/city solution.

Props to the Lake Elsinore City Council for dealing with this issue head on.

In response to 'Local Native Californian', I happen to be a seventh (yes, seventh- my family helped found the City of Los Angeles in 1769) generation Southern Californian and the idea of individual property rights is a concept that was brought here mostly by european settlers. Communities are everyone's property and everyone needs to take responsibility for them. The impacts of one individual's action often extend beyond that one individual. We either need to live together as a community, or we will perish together as selfish fools.

lori wrote on Feb 6, 2008 11:50 AM:Sounds like the architect is winding up the silly busybodies. Good for him.

CindyP wrote on Feb 6, 2008 12:05 PM:Say, you wanta big house come to Temecula - we gots'm. 5-8 bedrooms no lots -
the developer should just call them dorm homes.

10th generation californian wrote on Feb 6, 2008 1:41 PM:to paradigm design - you're about 100 years off if you are only 7th generation and you're talking about 1769. do the math or don't throw that around. and don't be so superior because other people were here before you.

paradigm design wrote on Feb 6, 2008 3:13 PM:Well, let's see- My great grandfather was born in 1867, died in 1952. His great-great grandfather was the one who came in 1769 at the age of 42. Realize that men can father children throughout pretty much their entire lives and I'd be happy to compare genealogy with you, as it is one of my hobbies, but that's really not the issue here.

What IS the issue is that, in my opinion, individual property rights end when those so-called 'rights' begin to impinge upon others' freedoms, in this case- the community at large.

I'm not trying to assert any sort of superiority whatsoever. In fact, my ancestors were, sadly, responsible for much of the enslavement and decimation of the native population that was here before they arrived! My only wish here is that we would use that native population as an example, and learned to live more like a community, rather than insulate ourselves in a stucco box. Peace.

In the know wrote on Feb 6, 2008 5:20 PM:Quality always comes at a price. Developer's generally build at the lowest price, selling at the highest and then they go away and the City is left with the aftermath of new residents complaining about their houses not being built to quality standards.

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