John wrote on Feb 7, 2008 10:27 PM:Orang-a-peal is DOA.

My Beach wrote on Feb 8, 2008 12:21 AM:My Beach, My Surf, My Waves...Go Home! It is our beach! We dont want anymore people from this toll road to crowd our beaches!!! GO HOME!

If you build it wrote on Feb 8, 2008 5:31 AM:If you build it, they will come. Of course the flip side is that they are already here and more are coming, even with the high pirce of living in SoCal. Just take a look at Temecula and Southern Riverside County! I-15 was thought to be plenty wide enough to handle traffic and growth through 2020, but when Southern Riverside saw its boom, I-15 needed serious work. I-5 through Pendleton has been 8 lanes since it was built in the late 1960s, and its the only road from LA to San Diego and Mexico. NAFTA has brought in huge amounts of truck traffic from Mexico, and I-5 is a bottleneck. There are plans to widen I-5 through Camp Pendleton, but north through South Orange County there is no more room to widen most of it. So, as far back as the 1980s this back road was planned that would connect at the north end of Camp Pendleton. It has been fought ever since, but in the end it will get built. Granted, it had to change to a Toll Road because the costs to build went so high from all the fights. Now, with these continued fights who knows how much we will end up paying for it to be built. There has also been talk about building an extention around the back side of Pendleton to Temecula, so maybe that one will take hold and help some of this current and future traffic. But, unless someone finds a way to close the Borders of CA from the massive influx of people coming in, and a way to stop babys from being born and growing up to want to live in SoCal along the Coast, there will be no stopping the need for more roads, and thus this road will be built.

Jan wrote on Feb 8, 2008 6:29 AM:No federal interst here- just greedy developer interest. It will never fly

Here come the lobbyists wrote on Feb 8, 2008 6:33 AM:Let's hope our Federal environmental laws mean as much as they are supposed to. They are going to play dirty and bring out their lobbyists now ! We cannot lessen our vigil.

Micky wrote on Feb 8, 2008 7:05 AM:Ok TCA, we know what you are up to, and we also know that one way to get rid of the road is to get rid of (recall) the elected officials you own. There are a lot of unemployed teachers and others out there looking for something to do because of this guvernators so-called "budget"...

Kranepool wrote on Feb 8, 2008 7:06 AM:What a bunch of elitists the opponents of this road are! God help them if a few minorities - what they call 909ers - use their special beach spot. Ditto stopping human needs over a few rats, flies, and mice.

Light-Headed wrote on Feb 8, 2008 7:07 AM:It appears that the proponents of 241 inhaled too much carbon monoxide as they headed home with their tails between their legs. Forget this route for your selfish interests! Long live the state park!

Davi wrote on Feb 8, 2008 7:14 AM:It would be better to tear down a bunch of homes in Orange County than to destroy one of the best coast lines in the country. I have travelled across this country and the coast line in CA is at the top of the list.

Besides, how much is the current stretch of toll road used anyway?

Put it on the ballot! wrote on Feb 8, 2008 7:18 AM:The only real test is to let ALL the voters decide, not just a small group of surfers and misguided environmentalists..

Snowball's Chance wrote on Feb 8, 2008 7:26 AM:The Feds are against giving up their land for transportation issues. Just look at the San Diego/Mira Mar airport vote. The need for a new airport in San Diego is far greater than the need for SR-241 but the Feds did everything they could to stop the project. Dont count on anyone in Washington to slice up any part of camp pendleton even if its already being loaned to a state agency.

Doesn't our Govt. get it wrote on Feb 8, 2008 7:30 AM:I could careless about if that road goes in or not, but when the people have spoken and oppose and issue the Government needs to step aside. I have seen a horrible pattern where the Government does what ever it wants regardless of what the people have to say. And the Candidates talk about the US being a place of freedom. Sound like BS to me.

HWY is coming! wrote on Feb 8, 2008 8:02 AM:Like it or not, money talks- hippies walk. Politicians answer to money so we WILL get our Toll Hwy! What the OC wants the OC gets, deal with it! When any of "you" offer something to society, politicians will start listening to you. Until then, they answer to my $$$$$

we are back! wrote on Feb 8, 2008 8:21 AM:please , please, please put this to a vote of the people. the true majority will speak and road will go thru.as for "my beach", your words show who all of you really are, selfish. "my beach" personifies the people who oppose this.very mature words.

Uli wrote on Feb 8, 2008 8:25 AM:those of you who oppose this road should be getting ready to start squaking really loud because this is just the start. you are in the minority not the majority.all the people need to have a say. democracy is your worst nightmare.

Jack wrote on Feb 8, 2008 8:57 AM:Tell me again how this road, which doesn't go near the beach, can affect the curl of the ocean waves. That's a stretch.

Jake wrote on Feb 8, 2008 9:22 AM:I hope the Fed steps in and starts to take into account that PEOPLE outweigh PLANTS and SURF BREAKS. I'm all for the road and more like them. You hippies need to grow up.

Working wrote on Feb 8, 2008 9:38 AM:how is it that the 2,000 opponents of 241 were not ?at work? in the middle of the week?

Are they professional protesters...Common sense will prevail and when was the last time a bird, snail, or mosquito produced or contirbuted to the greater good of society.

I'M DOUBTFUL wrote on Feb 8, 2008 10:06 AM:Do you know what it actually costs to drive on that boondoggle of a Toll Road already existing in the OC? It's about $4-$5 dollars per average trip! Who's got that kind of money on a consistant basis? What releif to congestion is there if you're the average Joe and unable to afford using the darn road? Thumbs way down in my books!

Toll Road Vamp wrote on Feb 8, 2008 10:31 AM:Just put a stake through it's heart before the sun goes down.

Sarah wrote on Feb 8, 2008 10:36 AM:It is quite naive to think that birds, snails, mosquitos, waves or other parts of "nature" do not benefit society. They all play a part in the ecosystem to which society belongs. Der.

Nutz wrote on Feb 8, 2008 10:37 AM:Leave it up to the attorneys to make this an issue that will never be fully resolved. Keep in mind that anyone with a legal degree has all the time in the world since that is how they are paid.

Let's hope brains wrote on Feb 8, 2008 10:39 AM:prevail. We need this road more than we need a hang out for slackers and loafers who wouldn't know a job if they were given one. It's so easy to be against this when your longest commute is to the beach or the bar. If you don't want progress go South to Mexico! Build the road!

Bo wrote on Feb 8, 2008 11:21 AM:This is State's rights issue, so the Orange County Elite better move quick because when Georgie boy is gone State's rights will return!

Janet wrote on Feb 8, 2008 11:31 AM:Name callers: I am not a hippie, a selfish surfer or an environut. I believe that we should not destroy our parks to build for profit toll roads. If the answer is yes on this one, no park is safe. Heck, they aren't now. Look at the power lines (with access roads) in many parks. Can you spell FIRE? Why should others lose their recreation areas so that people can commute to LA faster to make more money? The more roads you build, the farther people will live from work and the more trips they will make and we'll need more roads. And bit by bit, all the parks will be gone. Think about it. Why was a corridor not set aside in Orange County for this road? Why does this lack of planning come out of my hide (as a person who uses parks)? Almost all the natural coastal areas are gone. Why should we give up the last bits?

TRUE BLUE wrote on Feb 8, 2008 11:34 AM:Gov. Schwarzeneger favors the toll road, so it follows that the Secretary will reverse this silly decision of the Coastal Commission. The toll road WILL be built. It's in the best interest of the vast majority. I'm sure TCA attorneys are already preparing a law suit to be filed, just in case the Secretary backs the Commission, which he won't.

To Janet wrote on Feb 8, 2008 11:39 AM:I also was present at the meeting and am not a slacker or otherwise undesirable person in any fashion. Your comments are appropriate. We cannot give up dedicated parkland for roads. Otherwise we'd be mowing down Torrey Pines, Balboa Park, Carlsad State Beach, etc. for roads. Who among is doesn't understand how wrong that is has a few screws loose.

Richard wrote on Feb 8, 2008 11:49 AM:The toll road will be built but it won't be in San Diego County. Just build it through San Clemente. You rich Coto types can ram it through the slums there.

Native wrote on Feb 8, 2008 12:19 PM:And pigs will fly!

David wrote on Feb 8, 2008 12:25 PM:Please understand that it is only for the one who want to live in paradise ( San Diego County) and work in megolopois ORANGE ROT COUNTY that want this road and the state always money grubbers. I say no and will fight to the end to stop this idiocy, NO ROAD STAY IN OC AND STAY HOME IN MEXICO AND LEAVE US ALONE. I don't go to OC or south of the border so why why want them here faster. AS IN DRUGS JUST SAY NO!

Great idea wrote on Feb 8, 2008 12:37 PM:Approve the toll road. Widen I5 to six lanes each way. Build a new International airport on Camp Pendleton next to I5. Answers the airport issue, has great access for all and will save the beach as no one would build anything close to it. I should run for office!

Parkland Facts wrote on Feb 8, 2008 1:11 PM:This land was dedicated as mitigation land for the environmental harm that San Onofre Power Plant caused. Ronald Reagan was the champion for this preserve area. When this State starts taking away dedicated parkland and coastal mitigation land at that, it will be time to replace every elected official at every level who even hints that they will do such a thing!

Fred H wrote on Feb 8, 2008 1:15 PM:If it will generate money for someone, somewhere it WILL be built. All the Del Martian Hippies with law degress will not slow down growth, nor impede greed. Whine all you want. They WILL build it.

To Doesn't our Govt. get it wrote on Feb 8, 2008 1:37 PM:What your seeing is that when a loud minority says it speaks for the majority, the government tends to side with the majority. If this were put to a vote, and the vote was to put the road in, then what would you say then? The facts are that this road doesn't go near the beach; in fact it is no closer to the beach than the current freeway. Where it intrudes in the park is inland, and path of the road skirts along the edge of the park, leaving almost all of the park untouched. Endangered pebbles? Now the endangered species doesn't even have to be alive? A little common sense and some research blows the arguments away, and the majority of the folks will see that WHEN it comes to a vote.

To Parkland Facts wrote on Feb 8, 2008 1:47 PM:Another scam. What harm has the power plant caused. None. These trade offs are just a method to make the environuts think they won something and feel good. Just like the Carbon offsets help Global warming. Right!! What a joke! Build the toll way but make it FREEway.

Jay wrote on Feb 8, 2008 1:58 PM:Many of you pro-road people don't have anything important to say and resort to name calling, as if all opponents don't work and aren't successful in the sense of making good money like you. And I could say that the supporters are willing to pave every beach and park and they are the aggressive drivers who risk hurting or killing people to get to Orange County or LA one minute faster a minute. But it doesn't matter. It is my beach (and the beach of all Californians). I am 57 years old; I have worked since I was 14 and have made great money since I was graduated from college. But that doesn't make my opinion more important than an unemployed surfer. We are all citizens. We have a right to our viewpoints. You can try to use your your power and money to try to cram it down our throats, and you are right that this is increasingly common in this country. But that doesn't make you right or better than us, and your behavior does seem greedy and selfish.

JP wrote on Feb 8, 2008 2:23 PM:Go ahead, put it on a ballot and be shocked when it is defeated. The pro TCA crowd is the real minority in San Diego county.

O'side Res wrote on Feb 8, 2008 2:38 PM:This road does not help traffic. Who rides that toll road anyway. The Wives of the OC? I don't surf and I don't want it. Lived in south OC and North San Diego County the last 30 years. I can negotiate traffic and do. My wife drives to OC from SD county every day and I don't hear her compaling about traffic. Maybe a knucklehead who falls asleep and drives off the road. I say no and I speak for 2 non surfer non Hippies!

Janet wrote on Feb 8, 2008 2:40 PM:Yep, I know what you mean about those worthless surfers. My nephew who has done two tours in Iraq with the Marines surfs there with his buddies. So does a colleague who's an engineer. And me, an engineer with an MBA--I like the beach and the park there. Yes, a bunch of lazy bums! No wonder you despise us.

TRUE BLUE wrote on Feb 8, 2008 2:57 PM:Janet. Surfers and surfing are not the target. Not at all. In fact, surfing is a great sport and nobody enjoys the beach and our parks more than I. Having said that, I still sincerely believe that the proposed toll road will not encroach on or imperil any recreational areas. There is too much emotion and hysteria on both sides. Just go by the facts.

Stay Home wrote on Feb 8, 2008 3:47 PM:It's frightening to read so many pro-241 postings with such convoluted logic, not to mention the typos and poor grammar. And it's also distressing to read about so many inconvenienced commuters. But the reality is that this land is a state park and therefore off limits to commercial development. Some alternatives to consider: visit Orange Co. beaches, go to Disneyland, consider visiting San Francisco instead, or just stay home and barbecue. The rubber of your vehicles will never touch the pavement of this boondoggle through San Onofre State Park! And ditto to David's comments.

Native Born wrote on Feb 8, 2008 3:56 PM:Never fear, the Monkeywrench gang is alive and well in So. CA!

Roy wrote on Feb 8, 2008 3:57 PM:Thanks Jerry Brown And The Lefties for bringing us the worthless Coastal Commssion that inhibits progress. You would think that Progressives would want infrastructure to promote economic progress but instead we get a bunch of knee jerk commissioners that base their decisions on emotion instead of science. Based on the scientific studies done on this road thus far the impacts on the species concerned will be negligible and the impact on the surf break is non existent. This is just a bunch of elite feel good bull trumping rational objective science.

Reardon wrote on Feb 8, 2008 5:39 PM:Ya' gotta' love it! The road will destroy habitat -- as if the homes these enviro-nuts live in was not once natural habitat before they lived there? Dirty "Developers" -- but every one of these enviro-nuts lives in a home a developer built -- in a community that a developer built! Then there are the "Surfer Dudes' -- I heard one interviewed yesterday on the radio, "I mean, like, hey man, that My beach! Us who surf trestles got this great break, you know, and it's ours, I mean, like, you know?" The mind boggles!

Selfish People wrote on Feb 8, 2008 6:47 PM:do not carpool, vanpool or take public transportation. This may seem minor in the scheme of things, but it would make a HUGE difference in the number of cars on the road. With the price of gas one would think this would be a no brainer!

Ex SD-OC Commuter wrote on Feb 8, 2008 6:53 PM:In a matter of just a few years, the new Hwy 241 extension through the State Park will not help to relieve the traffic anyway. The main reason the OCTA wants the toll road is to allow access to the 175,000 acres of undeveloped land in South OC. That private land, slated in the general plan for some 25,000 to 35,000 new homes to be built inland, between San Clemente and Rancho Santa Margarita, have been in the pipeline for the same 20 years that the 241 extension has been planned. The developers need a way to access that land. Thus, in the long run, the new homes will create enough new traffic to gridlock the I5/241 interchange both north and southbound within a few years after the road is built. (See the same comment above regarding the I15 corridor through Temecula/Murietta area). If the 241 people would have had it together way back then, some 20 yrs ago, they could have routed this fwy through San Clemente and no one, incl the Coastal Commission could have said anything about it. But, big developers couldn't stand to wait, and so they built out San Clemente and any access route through that city. Now they want the State Park lands for the tollway so more homes can and will be built inland from San Clemente. But “Big Money” (and the Irvine Co and the Rancho Mission Viejo Co are some of the “Biggest” money of them all) will talk, the Federal Government will listen, and eventually the 241 will be built through the State Park. Watch and see what happens next.

Janet wrote on Feb 8, 2008 8:28 PM:True blue: Please read the comments here and tell me that people aren't representing people who oppose the road as a bunch of slackers, hippies, unemployed bums and environuts. Lots of decent people oppose the road. They should stick to the issues instead of all this mud slinging. Do you truly believe that when they get that road in and the 30,000 are so houses are built, they won't be back at the well asking to widen the road through the park? Wake up, commuters. The road isn't for you. It's for developers to make big bucks. If it were for you, I-15 would be the relative cakewalk it used to be, not a way for developers to support all that stuff in Riverside County that have turned it into a parking lot. I personally know people who are communting 50 to 75 miles on 15 ever day. By themselves, of course. And we want to give up a parks so more people can do this?

been there wrote on Feb 8, 2008 8:46 PM:yeah!!! take paradise and put up a parking lot!!!!!!!

Dont Live In OC Or SD wrote on Feb 8, 2008 9:08 PM:If people in San Diego County dont want this road built quit your jobs in OC its that simple, there trying to build this road to access property yes but additionally the road will take a considerable amount of congestion off of I5, people in San Diego County are always complaining about the roads which connect it to the rest of California, ive heard so much about I15 it makes me sick, this road or a road alike will be built maybe not at this time but it WILL happen no matter what the cost or what considerations have to be considered, its just like SR74 WILL one day become a major route through OC/Riverside, facts are facts and cities grow, if you dont like the way this City ( Metro Area ) is growing move somewhere else where life is slower.

janet wrote on Feb 8, 2008 9:28 PM:Oh, only you selfish, demanding types should live here and pave the whole place, while the people who love it should give up and leave or see it destroyed. Think of it as your home. If people wanted to take sections of your yard to use for off-roading or cutting through to get to the store because it was closer, how would you feel? But apparently the rest of us should just roll over and let you commute 100 miles so you can have a cheaper, nicer place to live but make more money. And if we move somewhere else that is lovely, don't you think people like you would just move in there and overwhelm it (like the northwest). All together now: I want what I want and I want it NOW.

Power Plant Facts wrote on Feb 8, 2008 9:50 PM:Yes, the nuclear power plant does cause harm. It removed acres of beautiful habitat and on a daily basis kills marine life. Get your facts straight. ALL development harms the ecosystem and ones on the coast harm the unique coastal environment, plants, animals, yes coastal access and marine life.

TRUE BLUE wrote on Feb 9, 2008 2:52 AM:The doomsday predictions that envision nightmarish and endless housing tracts, predatory contractors and countless other ghastly results in building the toll road are silly and baseless. It's just more anti-toll road propaganda. It has a strong NIMBY odor and it is typical of those who live in some big housing tract screaming about more of what they live in. Progress is progress. It's as simple as that folks. If we followed such silly logic, we would all be living in caves or teepees.

To Power Plant Facts wrote on Feb 9, 2008 9:15 AM:The warm waters out the outlet actually provides for some of the best fishing in the area. For many decades now the fishermen of the area have known this fact well! The diversity of species in that area is greater than any other area around. Ever notice all the fishing boats parked off the coast from San Onofre? There is a reason!

To Janet wrote on Feb 9, 2008 9:35 AM:A corredore was setaside for this road as far back as the 1980s, Before the inland portion of the state park existed! San Onofre State Park was only along the beach back then, and south of the power plant at that! The road was well planned out and drawn up on the OC and State planning maps. But, money to build it bacame and issue. Even the 73 was planned back then, but became a toll road when the State realized they had no money to build it. The 241 was teh same way farther north in OC, and it too was built using private money. The final portion of this road is only waiting on the approval of this last little connection that now has an RV park leased to the state by the federal government. This was done specifically to try and thwart the roads completion, and NOT to save habitat! RV'ers have done much to harm the area, and habitat was destroyed by building that park. Further habitat has been destroyed all along the area north of San Onofre by surfers and others who keep trampling along their own paths rather than use the designated paths. Thent here is the issue of the farming that has (and still is) been done along that valley, and all the silt, fertilizer, and other junk that it puts into the watershed. No worse than what the road will bring in. and what about the Rocket Fuel from the former TRW rocket motor test facility, and the heavy metals from the artillary ranges up stream? I have wondered fo years how surfer and surfrider foundation could continue to call this area "pure"! Obviously they have never done any serious scientific testing of the waters in which they choose to surf! The bacteria levels in the lagoon and in the local waters after a rain are very high, and very dangerous to human activity. But, that never seems to stop surfers! So, why should we stop a road for these fools who can't seem to differentiate between east and west?

State Park Facts wrote on Feb 9, 2008 9:59 AM:Yes, when San Onofre was built, Reagan (then Gov) required that a portion of the BEACH be set aside as a state park to mitigate the impacts of the power plant. that was baout the same time as I-5 was being built. The inland portion of this park was opened much later, actually after Nixon sold his house at Cotton's Point, and the Coast Guard closed its communications base just south of Nixon's house. This was also shortly after i-5 was widened through San Clemente. Even back then there was no access for the already planned 241 to intersect with I-5 anyplace other than in Northern San Diego County, AND it was all in the approved State Master Plan! But, someone thinking they could block this road (yes they lived in San Clemente along what was planned for teh future 241) pushed to have additional land along the border of SC and Pendleton donated for more park land. Most of us thought them NUTS, as there was no access to the beach from there, no view of the ocean, and not much for anybody to see either. It was further distant from restaurants, and other aminities than SC State Beach, and was also right up against the maneuverings of the Marines (BOOM BOOM All night long!). But, as there was nothing to loose by the Federal Government donating this land for this use, it was done. Now, people are using it to try and block the 241. But, they forget the Feds can take back what they have given, even accss to Tressels!!!! It is all on a Federal Reserve! So, since the planning of this road was approved over 30 years ago, and there appears to be a need for this road, even if private money must be used to build it (this after passing that huge bond a while back??? oh well, guees they have other plans for that money), it will eventually get built. State Parks of this sort can be easily moved!

To TRUE BLUE wrote on Feb 9, 2008 12:10 PM:And what is wrong with Caves? Tha Taliban seem to find them very comfortable. ;-) By the way, I hear the Taliban don't worry about Envirnomental Issues, and when they take over they will end all this once and for all!

Janet wrote on Feb 9, 2008 3:00 PM:I am sure that people don't treat our parks with respect, and that will still happen even if the toll road is built. The real issue is that this is coastal park land that you want to convert to for profit use. This has not been done before (putting a freeway on state park land), and it sets the precedent. Sure, you may see the park land as worthless, but then people who don't love nature see a wasteland where I see beauty. Take the dead willows at Lake Hodges. I have heard endless whining about them by people who think water quality is affected by them. No, it's all the people applying fertilizer, pesticides and herbicides to their grass. When I walk there, I see a huge variety of herons, egrets, cormorants and other birds roosting on those trees, plus ducks finding cover there. Fish love them. Did any of the complainers ever get off the freeway and actually look? No, they don't like how it looks from the freeway and therefore it should be destroyed.

To Janet wrote on Feb 11, 2008 5:19 AM:Funny you should mention the fertilizers and pesticides as the problem when at the same time you mention all the diversity that seems to be thriving. That said, the only park land affected by the 241 is actually inland and NOT costal. The Costal park land is all West of the I-5 and would not be taken or impacted. It is the eastern addition to the Park (added many years after the original costal park) that could be minorly impacted. But, here again the park itself, created for RV's, has actually encroached on habitat that was previously left natural. Then there are the pesticides and fertilizer issues. Just below this inland addition to the park lies a valley that has been farmed for more than 100 years. Large amounts of pesticides and fertilizers are continuously used here. They wash down stream and into the ocean where they are transported south through the major surfing spots. Of course, then you have the heavy metals that have been washing down stream for over 70 year from the artillery ranges in Camp Pendleton. And finally you have the Rocket Fuel that was leaked into the ground water at the former TRW Racket motor test facility that is further upstream from the RV Park. 241 is slated to run through some of these areas and will have to clean them up as they go along. The framing in the valley will be cut back significantly, if not all together. And many other improvements to the water flow along the San Mateo River Valley will be required to ensure no damage to the freeway/toll roads during heavy rains. All in all these improvements, which are mandated to meet certain Federal Environmental laws, will significantly clean up this currently heavily impacted area and return much of it to a more natural level. But, those not understanding the history of the area, and its current status as compared to what is truly NATURAL continue to argue for this area to remain in its current degraded condition. The 241 will actually improve water quality, from its current standard. It will also enable the Steelhead to once again run in the San Mateo (now stopped due to sand bars and other problems at the mouth of the river and along the river. But, surfers and other ignorant folk just jump up and say NO, it will hurt our surfing spot, take away park land, impact the environment, etc. Without ever really knowing how bad the current problems already are! Furthermore, the 241 will actually add access to additional proposed parkland in the interior which has been left empty for many years (formerly part of the various ranches that were heavily grazed for over 200 years before CA began to grow along the southern coast shortly after WWI, and BOOM, shortly after WWII. The last 50 years (1960 - Pres.) has seen significant growth and significant impacts. But most people only know what they've seen over the last 10 to 15 years. My family's history spans the last 180 years in this area and I have some wonderful pictures and description of what things once were like: Salmon (not Steelhead) running in San Juan River and San Mateo River, and Santa Margarita River, Bald Eagles, Golden Eagles, and even Grizzly Bears (The California Brown Bear of our State Flag - the last one in the state was killed in the 1920s near Basilone Road area. Yes, not far from the San Onofre State Park!). Would you have us re-introduce these wonderful creatures to the region? We also used to have Big Horn Sheep, Elk, and a Spotted Big Cat, not the Mountain Lions of today, but one known only to exist in Mexico today. Yes, it was quite diverse before man arrived. Then again, there were the FLEAS! The flee problem in the area was so bad that the natives actually complained about them, and you might notice Las Pulgas Road (the flea). Yes, things have changed, good or bad, they have changed. But, since I-5 went through the death rate along the coast roads has dropped significantly and has yet to again reach anything near what it was in the 1950s! 241 will again lower the death rates on our local roads. But, who really cares about people dying, especially when there are waves to protect from the outsider! By the way, I surfed those waves there and at Dana Point before Hobbie arrived!

Pavement wrote on Apr 11, 2008 1:41 PM:All I can say is PAVE the Planet.