Anonymous wrote on Feb 7, 2008 8:05 PM:Yet another scientology propaganda. Your time is running out.

We are legion.

Pat wrote on Feb 7, 2008 8:29 PM:Thank you for this article on Scientology which presents a clear, unbiased picture of this 20th century religion and its parishioners. There must be a valid reason for so many intelligent people to flock to this religion.

Dave wrote on Feb 7, 2008 8:32 PM:Why are you running such an uncritical piece, when there is such extensive documentation of the harm that Scientolgy has done and continues to do to its members and their families? Google "Lisa McPherson" or "jeremy Perkins" for two recent examples. Cult leader David Miscavige's own niece, Jenna Miscavige Hill, has denounced the group and described the child abuse she endured in their care. Shame on you for this negligent article. Do some research and post a follow-up, please.

Of this world wrote on Feb 7, 2008 8:44 PM:Scientologists believe there was a creature named Xenu who was the dictator of the Galactic Confederacy who 75 million years ago, brought billions of his people to Earth in DC-8-like spacecraft, stacked them around volcanoes and then killed them using hydrogen bombs. Scientology holds that their essences remained, and that they form around people in modern times, causing them spiritual harm.
Does it get any more bizarre?

David wrote on Feb 7, 2008 9:05 PM:“Writing for a penny a word is ridiculous, if a man really wanted to make a million dollars, he would start a religion.”

- L. Ron Hubbard, early 1940s, roughly 10 years before founding Scientology.

"THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN CONTROL PEOPLE IS TO LIE TO THEM. You can write that down in your book in great big letters. The only way you can control anybody is to lie to them."

- L. Ron Hubbard, "Off the Time Track," lecture of June 1952, excerpted in JOURNAL OF SCIENTOLOGY issue 18-G, reprinted in TECHNICAL VOLUMES OF DIANETICS & SCIENTOLOGY, vol. 1, p. 418

Anonymous wrote on Feb 7, 2008 9:55 PM:10-02-08. Expect us.

Anonymous wrote on Feb 7, 2008 10:13 PM:At best, this is a self-help org. A rekigion? How nobody questions this is beyond me.

Anon wrote on Feb 7, 2008 10:15 PM:At best, this is a self-help org. A rekigion? How nobody questions this is beyond me.

Sandra W. wrote on Feb 7, 2008 10:59 PM:This is not a newspaper report, but rather a one-sided story based on Scientology PR material. Google "Operation Clambake" for indepth, documented information - including resources for journalists and writers.

Jeanne wrote on Feb 7, 2008 11:09 PM:It's a pleasure to read a story that really captures the essence of what it is to be a Scientologist. I appreciate Ms. Webster's attention to detail. It is a very accurate representation of my religion, and I appreciate it!

It wrote on Feb 7, 2008 11:52 PM:The same old shore story as twenty years ago. How can any journalist still fall for this? 100,000 dollars poorer, our family finally realized that the best of the cult could be found for free in many other places and the worst was science fiction by a mediocre writer.

observer wrote on Feb 8, 2008 12:04 AM:"The last Christian died on the cross."

~Friedrich Nietzsche

Mags wrote on Feb 8, 2008 2:10 AM:And now that it's the 21st century maybe it will go away.

Anonymous wrote on Feb 8, 2008 3:14 AM:...Read and be enlightened. For evil to prevail all that is needed is for good men to do nothing.

Ivan wrote on Feb 8, 2008 3:40 AM:Correction:
Germany didn't bann Scientology. See The Associated , Jan 2, 2008, Correction: Germany-Scientology Story. ...
Scientology is being investigated in Germany the same way it has been investigated during the last 16 years. During this time the Germans courts have protected the Scientologists rights to practice multiple times.

JP wrote on Feb 8, 2008 4:18 AM:Anonymose, non existence same thing. You guys are clowns and should be in a circus. very childish get you mummy to change your nappies you stink and I'm not the only one that sees that.
The scientology say you live more than one life time you guys must be the NUZI's that have come back.

Cheers JP

Anonymous wrote on Feb 8, 2008 4:27 AM:"Commonly asked questions about the basics of Scientology"

Why didnt the old man himself spot any errors?
...
What was GAT?
What is GAK?
Why didnt an OT stop all the entheta from appearing in this comment section?

Jack wrote on Feb 8, 2008 4:44 AM:Makes sense to me. I guess these anonymous people are a bit slow. These "Anonymouse" people are doing the things that their accusing Scientology of doing, What hypocrites!! Thanks guys I'm going in to buy a Scientology book. I did have some doubt but thanks to you guys I've made my decision.

Peter S. wrote on Feb 8, 2008 4:54 AM:Scientologists are not allowed to look at anything negative about Scientology or they will be kicked out. So they only look at positive stories. They church tells them good-good-good things and forbids any mention of bad.

Anyone else can read the facts and see the large problems with the church. Scientologists are blinded.

It is ironic that a church that claims to be the "Road to Truth" forbids its members from simply looking around.

Kipsner wrote on Feb 8, 2008 5:17 AM:Don't posts like "your time is running out. expect us" qualify as terroristic threatening?

Gary wrote on Feb 8, 2008 5:22 AM:Great article. Rarely in the media is information presented void of hearsay.

Thinker wrote on Feb 8, 2008 5:35 AM:I believe IF you google any religion or organization you will find both positive and negative stories. It is better to do a little independent research, then think for yourself, THEN form an opinion that is yours. I can respect that BUT to just condemn anything based on todays media blitz is just not a good way to live your lives. As far as this article goes, it is about the religion / belief system, period! I do not think it was written to pass judgement, only to inform. SO, now you have a very very small taste of Scientology and you are free to learn more or not.

notstupid wrote on Feb 8, 2008 6:03 AM:"First there was the controversy in Germany, which in December declared Scientology unconstitutional and banned it." ...
"In December, regional ministers agreed to investigate the possibility of banning it."

Not quite the same, is it?

Lisa wrote on Feb 8, 2008 6:09 AM:Wow this article fails to mention a single one of the many criticisms CoS faces today, how strange. One would almost assume it's written by a scientologist!

It's lucky for the world that LRH tech is so see through anyone with half a brain can spot it a mile off.

Walter wrote on Feb 8, 2008 6:30 AM:18,000 Scientologists in the San Diego area? The reporter should have asked David how many showed up at your last major event?

18,000? Nope.
1,800? Nope.
180? Less than, but somewhere in that area.

Off by 99%

The church really wishes it was big and growing, but it is small and shrinking. And for a good reason. Do a Google search and read the truth.

gargy wrote on Feb 8, 2008 6:50 AM:18,000 church members in the San Diego area is really hysterical. I WAS one of the S.D. believers a few years ago and believe me, they had about 2,000 people they could call "members." It was nearly impossible to even get a few hundred to come to one of the ridiculously boring "events" that they hold: Elron's birthday, auditior's day, dianetics day, ad nauseum. Listen up people, they lie. They lie about everything; the number of members is just the beginning of the lies. Do not fall for it. They truly are the "cult of greed and power." Run away.

Chris wrote on Feb 8, 2008 7:06 AM:Great piece! An honest and factual account of what Scientology is. Thank you!

Hey Anonymous, I have a question: When in history has persecution of a religion ever ended up doing anything but growing it in the long run?

Your attacks may are nuisances, that is all. In the long run, they will amount to exactly nothing.

"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds."

-Albert Einstein.

vickie wrote on Feb 8, 2008 7:40 AM:I liked this article. It answered lots of questions. Anonomous is just a Hate group. Can you imagine how much time these people must have on their hands to pursue "destroying" something. Get a real job boy's or put this energy into community work,maybe you could actually help somebody.

Joeseph wrote on Feb 8, 2008 7:51 AM:This is insane. People have the right to believe in whatever they want, but they shouldn't be FORCED to pay for it.

RELIGION is free.
SCIENTOLOGY is not.

Ian wrote on Feb 8, 2008 8:04 AM:I would like to point out that all of you are a joke. I've listened to the State of Man and the Spirit of Man compact disc that the "Scientologist" sell. I must honestly admit that after hearing Hubbard speak I barely managed to keep awake. I was surprised to find that these compact disc are actually available online. What a waste of money... I should have just downloaded them. Anonymous, I can make up my own mind thank you very much. I must admit though, your story is a interesting one to say the least. I would also like to see more about the ...statistics the "Scientologist" propagate.
As for how they get these "influential people". I know your game, how you contacted me in the first place. ...

Lee wrote on Feb 8, 2008 8:04 AM:This article gives a very accurate picture of what you would find if you actually visited a Church of Scientology, which I have been a part of for 30 years. The frightful fiction painted by the haters of Scientology can be found only in the media or on the internet and exists only to satisfy some bizarre urges of the haters. But even this article is one step away from what is really important. Opinions about Scientology really don't matter much. The bottom line is that L. Ron Hubbard explored the mind and discovered something that, if you have a mind, you need to know about. The book Evolution of a Science explains the scientific methods that he used to make the discovery. The book Dianetics fully explains the discovery and how to utilize it. The book Fundamentals of Thought then summarizes some of the wonderful discoveries about life and the spirit that the breakthrough of Dianetics revealed. All of these bizarre reports by the haters seem to be designed to keep you from contacting Scientology and finding out about Hubbard's discoveries. But you can simply go to your local library and request one of these books and at least read, in Hubbard's own words, about what he discovered. And then you can form your own opinion rather than have one shoved down your throat by the haters of Scientology.

john wrote on Feb 8, 2008 8:08 AM:Great article! The Volunteer Ministers were also of great help at 9/11, then there's the L. Ron Hubbard's sauna detox that is helping the fireman from that day (Downtown Medical, nydetox), also the Say No To Drugs Campaign, and Scientologists are also very active promoting and upholding the Universal Declaration of Human Rights together with youthforhumanrights When you look at it altogether like this, you realise that the C of S does SO MUCH to help mankind and improve our society :) JW

Anonymous wrote on Feb 8, 2008 8:10 AM:We are not against Scientologists. At the core of human freedom is to make his or her mind up about what to believe. If you feel the need to audit your spirits, you are naturally free to do so. ...

Peter S. wrote on Feb 8, 2008 8:17 AM:I love Scientologist's definitions. If an article exactly quotes some church of Scientology PR piece, it is "true", "unbiased", "factual".

If an article finds and references any of the documents, first-person accounts, court findings, which are, however, negative, that article is "biased" and "anti-Scientology".

Actual facts that happen to be negative about the church are, by Scientology definition, "suppressive" and are an enemy of the church.

When truth is your enemy, what are you?

Anonymous wrote on Feb 8, 2008 8:19 AM:Fail propaganda is fail.

2/10/08

Anonymous wrote on Feb 8, 2008 8:37 AM:vickie. This IS community work. We have thousands of people all over the world, working to undermine the RTC, so you can actually have access to your own beliefs. There is no benefit to us, apart from the satisfaction one person gets from helping another. Our message boards are open, and you're more than welcome.

Random Comment #32f wrote on Feb 8, 2008 9:21 AM:$cientology reminds me of high school when my buddies and I would get bored and do stupid little experiments. Sometimes they were simple little things like going to the mall then gather around at some random moment to look at a spot on the floor. Soon people would start walking up to see what we were looking at, then a small crowd would form - then we’d walk away and see how long it would take for the crowd to disperse.
One time we made up a religion but then got a little carried away trying to top each other on what we could get people to believe - we had to stop cuz it was getting mean.
Good lord, we were idiots…
we never even thought to make money off it!
Is it possible hubbard just “left his body” before he got a chance to call off the experiment something?
What if hubbard was trying to stop the experiment and that’s why the people making money off it kept him out of the public for the last 5 or 6yrs of his life? Then they injected him with anti-psychotics before he “abandoned his physical form” in an attempt to discredit him in case he’d gotten through to somebody.
How do you like THAT for a craaaazy conspiracy theory?

DANCE MY LITTLE LAB RATS, DANCE!!!

JC wrote on Feb 8, 2008 9:31 AM:It is a SHAME that some criticize scientology so hard when these guys are doing SO MANY good things, this annon thing does focus on all of the black propaganda that has spread out on the subject of scientology and is so darn sad that they play with this, not only is this very irresponsile but it shows the kind of people who focus on criticizing scientology. I am sure scientologists are far from pefect but it doesn't take too much to see the hard work they put into doing some things that some of us don't even want to face.

Anon wrote on Feb 8, 2008 9:32 AM:LOL propaganda.

Next time try presenting both sides of the story.

You fail at journalism.

We are recruiting wrote on Feb 8, 2008 9:33 AM:new members for our new church, Star Trek the $ generation. If you are accepted you will help us rid the earth of those nasty Klingons, of course this doesn't come cheap.....

nonny mouse wrote on Feb 8, 2008 9:38 AM:Please stop always trying to discredit the critics and try thinking about why this is really happening. This isn't really about beliefs, (in reference to your bigotry and hate accusations) but rather the hostile attitude taken towards anyone who says something the CoS doesn't like. Why not learn from the criticism to improve the reputation of the church instead of ALWAYS getting all defensive and making things worse for themselves?
What we are fighting are the disagreeable aspects of the church that are giving the whole thing a bad reputation - not you, not your beliefs.
I've read a few comments from self proclaimed scientologists who say they are fond of scientology, but not so much the actions of the CoS. I'm sure there are many others out there that want to continue the practice but do not wish to be associated with the misdeeds of the over-zealous.

Why not look into the things that are upsetting us instead of just writing us all off as hateful bigoted people.

Anono MOOSE wrote on Feb 8, 2008 9:59 AM:You fail it.

(It being reporting the facts.)

An Anna Muss wrote on Feb 8, 2008 10:12 AM:As a whole, humanity seeks a higher meaning to it's being. Religion can be seen almost a reflection of the mindset of the era in which it was formed. The current evolution seems to be that to some, the financial significance of their beliefs gives it a sense of credibility for them. Hence, $cientology.

Is this really how we want our era defined?

micheal wrote on Feb 8, 2008 10:21 AM:ya i believe in anything with money,give me your time and money i will show you the world

Attentive wrote on Feb 8, 2008 11:14 AM:For those complaining that the story is one-sided, please note that What We Believe is a series of primers, not analysis pieces. The intent of the series is to inform readers of the particular faith's tenets, nothing more.

Terryeo wrote on Feb 8, 2008 11:25 AM:This is the first news story I've read that presents the religion in a way that can be understood. Thank you very much.

Vista Resident wrote on Feb 8, 2008 11:38 AM:I fail to understand why some people get SO upset and excited by other people's beliefs. I guess that tendency is why freedom of religion is so important to us here in the USA. I can appreciate the good in other people's religions even when those practicing that religion don't quite live up to its potential. Adherents of the great world religions rarely do. As a Christian, I try to "turn the cheek" and do the other things that Jesus preached. Sometimes I do better at that than other times. But, the attempt to reach higher can still make for a better and happier life.

Ron C wrote on Feb 8, 2008 11:52 AM:3.5 million members? Mr Marsh needs to get his "ethics" in. That is a complete lie that there are 3.5 million members in the US. Maybe 50,000, and a major religion it is not.

Why did LRH even want religious status? For tax benefits.

JM wrote on Feb 8, 2008 12:30 PM:I appreciate that the writer of this story wrote an unbiased piece. The criticisms the Church faces are so few when compared to the successes of it's parishioners, which those critical of the Church seem to forget. The Church is comprised of it's parishioners, and if 999/1000 are happy and if so few are complaining, it must be doing much more good than the perceived bad. Thank you for this story.

Ron C wrote on Feb 8, 2008 12:55 PM:If there were really all those success stories and so many happy scientologists, there would be no need for the CoS to lie, and make claims like 3.5 million scienos in the US, or 8 million worldwide, or that millions around the world celebrate LRH bday.

Those are all completely laughable. So yes, if there is a reason to lie, there must be something worth criticizing

Justin wrote on Feb 8, 2008 12:57 PM:Hubbard was a proven liar on every count. The only discovery he made was that people were so desperate for deeper answers that he could tell them anything and still have them believe it. He used his extensive knowledge of hypnotism and devil worship to craft his little business, posing as religion. This article is not journalism. It is a fluff piece making the best out of a.... organisation that should be taxed out of existence... Why are you charged for Scientology's secrets? Why do other religions give away their info for free?

Richard wrote on Feb 8, 2008 1:57 PM:Thank you for an unbiased report on the Scientology religion.

JBG wrote on Feb 8, 2008 2:12 PM:I'm proud to be an American. A person living here has the right to believe whatever he/she wants and a person is free to communicate what he/she wants. I hope everyone has an understanding of that freedom and works towards strengthing it. Whatever your belief may be, I'm glad you have a belief. As for getting informed, my opinion is it is better to observe than not.

J wrote on Feb 8, 2008 2:16 PM:I'm proud to be an American. A person living here has the right to believe whatever he/she wants and a person is free to communicate what he/she wants. I hope everyone has an understanding of that freedom and works towards strengthing it. Whatever your belief may be, I'm glad you have a belief. As for getting informed, my opinion is it is better to observe than not.

Benji wrote on Feb 8, 2008 3:34 PM:I think Tom Cruise's video told me more about Scientology than this article: ...

lar wrote on Feb 8, 2008 3:40 PM:If, reading a seemingly one-sided piece about Scientology (being pro) if enough to have an individual 'join' the church without their investigating the other side (being con), perhaps any consequential suffering of that person at the hands of scientology will serve as a lifelong lesson called, look before you leap.

dave wrote on Feb 8, 2008 4:15 PM:It's all well and good respecting others beliefs, does anyone respect 'helterskelter' the beliefs of Charles Mansons 'Family'? How about the slave owners belief they are the supreme race? The psychotics belief that murder is fun?

The shear amount of Ex-Scientologists who speak out about the awful treatment and shocking misdeeds once they leave the church is enough alone to being to question - why doesn't this article mention any of the very real concerns about scientology?

splorch wrote on Feb 8, 2008 4:20 PM:Hey critics - check it out!

"Nothing has more retarded the advancement of learning than the disposition of vulgar minds to ridicule and vilify what they do not understand."

~Samuel Johnson~

Now go crawl back under your rock.

Been there... done that. wrote on Feb 8, 2008 5:39 PM:Any "regilon" that truely wants to help and convert, wouldn't charge $300,000 for their secret. I'll give you a bible for free. These guys kept telling that I needed the next step for a big "win". Only I'd find out that there's yet another step after it that costs even more money. Credit cards, personal loans, you name it.. I kept paying because I really thought it would help. I could never tell the truth that it wasn't.. or I'd have to start from scratch and begin by paying more money for more "auditing". I had to "disconnect" from my family because I was told that they were holding me back. I couldn't talk to my mom or my dad, unless it was to ask for more money to give to the "church".

Trust me... I know first hand. I'm in so much debit and Scientology won't help me now because I don't have any more to give.

Ron is a liar and a cheat. He tells acceptable lies in order to make himself look good. he created his own language because he writes sci-fi. Get it... Engrams... OT.. Wins.. Overts.. SP... PTS.. WTF??

I feel sorry that it takes someone people 20 or 30 years to realize that it's a scam.


Scientology is a money making org.

It's a scam people.

mart wrote on Feb 8, 2008 7:57 PM:I can't believ you published this Scientology press release!

"Is CoS a cult or a religion?"
There are many types of cults. Some are religious cults and others are not; the first term does not rule out the other. Every cult can be defined as a group having all of the following five characteristics:


It uses psychological coercion to recruit, indoctrinate and retain its members.
It forms an elitist totalitarian society.
Its founder/leader is self-appointed, dogmatic, messianic, not accountable and has charisma.
It believes 'the end justifies the means' in order to solicit funds and recruit people.
Its wealth does not benefit its members or society.

This definition is taken from the CIC homepage and it is my opinion that CoS fits this definition of a cult. Many critics and former members of CoS also describe CoS as a bait and switch racket or the mafia of religion.

Marc wrote on Feb 8, 2008 8:28 PM:Very unbiased and accurate reporting. Rather than listen to the claptrap propaganda of "Anonymous", who hide behind masks, computers suppress free speech, your reporting captures what Scientology is actually about.

Jake wrote on Feb 8, 2008 8:31 PM:I want to know more about Xenu. He sounds pretty cool.

josh wrote on Feb 8, 2008 9:51 PM:Whilst you are absolutely correct as to scientology's theoretical position on the matter of 'spiritual' life, its practical position deviates like no other religion. For what religion requires you to pay for your own beliefs? What religion requires you to pay for the spiritual revelation of God and Satan (Xenu)? What other religion confuses itself for medicine used on the ill and frail, with such aggressive ferocity? Like bloodletting and trepanning, I can only hope that scientology falls to the ashes of history.

Jaster wrote on Feb 8, 2008 9:57 PM:I don't think Scientologists know what the word "bias" means. It doesn't have to be negative, it means the story is leaning towards one side or the other.

What you mean to say is that this is "Very Positive Reporting." Just because you agree with someone doesn't mean they're unbiased. :(

Jeff wrote on Feb 8, 2008 10:00 PM:I worked with Mr. Hubbard behind the scenes for a period of time. What I observed was a man dedicated to helping mankind. He was never motivated by money but did smile a lot when he received news of people improving their lives. I have observed a similiar care factor in those currently working within the church. All life changing movements went through their growing pains. The ones that persisted did so because there was some values that rang true. Having been around it for almost 40 years I see Sceintology working to refine itself so it is more easily accessible to all. Not more insular.

what wrote on Feb 8, 2008 10:02 PM:where's the neutrality in this article?

MarkIV wrote on Feb 8, 2008 10:08 PM:Scientology is a pyramid scheme. Hubbard deserves credit for creating the very first one long before the likes of Amway came along.

You can say everyone that disagrees with this article names but the truth is free people don't dig the iron hand of tyranny. Scio's deserve better than the life of bondage the church has given them.

LGA wrote on Feb 9, 2008 12:16 AM:Having been in Scientology for a little more than 20 yrs. these are some of the things I have observed and are being very true to me:

1. The vast majority of Scientologists NEED for Scientology and Hubbard to be right and true. Anything that threatens that much needed NEED(they are skillfully guided to have a very strong belief that their eternal free-from-pain-&-suffering-future depends on being in Scientology and doing only Scientology and that nothing else can or will ever get them there) they must attack, ridiculed, alter or its existence denied. So don't try to convince a person, who has become a Scientologist and is being a Scientologist to examine objectively any criticism of their religion. It threatens the ONLY thing that is making their lives stable and hopeful.

2. L Ron Hubbard's (last decade of his life) and the current Scientology top management's true intent is not to help mankind or create a saner world. Their helpful actions are all geared towards their main goal: To turn every human being they can get their hands on into a Scientologist, into a fanatical worshiper of Hubbard and his ideas.

I could say a lot more but the basic "suppresive act" of Scientology is the attempt to have you suppress or give up your own world, your own "universe" from which you can remain objective and observant, seeing things from your own viewpoints, and replace it with their own, where you end up believing 100% of EVERYTHING they say and NEVER question anything.

So don't ridicule or attack them. It just strengthens their attachment to Scientology and strongly deteriorates their ability to be objective.

XENU LOVES YOU! wrote on Feb 9, 2008 12:39 AM:Name me another religion that charges for salvation?

Terryeo-Lighfield-Arkaitz-CHurilov-Luana-CHewyanbert-Grnapl wrote on Feb 9, 2008 2:21 AM:I'm not a Scientologist but I'd like to agree with Mr.RandomComment#32f, it's sounds like L Ron Hubbard was just a silly guy conducting some fun innocent scientific experiments and maybe some other people took it overboard without his guidance. It's a shame that maybe these Scientologists were a bit too enthusiastic about helping people at the World Trade Center, they might have been wiser to leave such things to trained rescue personell.

Love wrote on Feb 9, 2008 3:10 AM::( Disappointed in you, NC Times. Do a little unbiased research?

Anti-Scientologist wrote on Feb 9, 2008 3:38 AM:What a ridiculous article. 2 minutes with google proves what a dangerous, controlling and greedy cult scientology is.

non anon wrote on Feb 9, 2008 3:55 AM:Charlie Manson indeed studied Scientology, just before he broke away and began his own "family".

According to L Ron Hubbard’s son, Scientology began the day "my good friend Aliester Crowley" died. Yet Aliester Crowley considered L Ron Hubbard to be a common 'confidence' man. (Read about Jack Parsons, Aliester Cowley and LRH).

Being of open mind, I began to read about the CoS. What I have found is this:

A plethora of consistent statements from former scientologist that have suffered the forces of Scientology ( I'm certain not everyone has these experiences, and many find purpose from the practices)

A rich history of criminal activities that while grand; are completely with-in the reasonable capabilities of CoS. Like infiltrating the US Government, in which many were convicted, L Ron Hubbard’s wife included. Notably: L Ron Hubbard himself was not man enough to face his crimes, like REAL men do.

And what speaks volumes of truth, is the CoS in ability to discuss ANYTHING about the church in a reasonably open fashion. The consistency and manner the CoS and its members attempt to defend the church and its founder.

Control of every conversation, attacking and intimidating the critics of CoS, this speaks to me loudly.

There is enough information that is credible and public record to establish the consistent ill-ethos of the CoS. They cannot with-stand public inspection, …or they would allow it.

MarieW. wrote on Feb 9, 2008 5:07 AM:I have always found reading about Scientology interesting. What I would like to know is, why are there so many deaths and suicides associated with Scientology? Why do so many accounts of ex-members say they "broke free" or "escaped"? Most people who leave a religion don't use those terms. Most people simply say they switched religions. I find most personal accounts of ex-members quite chilling.

Another old, but eye-opening article to read can be found here: ...

Anonymous wrote on Feb 9, 2008 5:20 AM:It will be great when this disgusting pyramid-scheme cult gets its tax-exempt status revoked.
As hard as you may try, this little propaganda piece cannot compete with the actual reporting demonstrated in Time, Economist, and nearly other decent news outlet.
Your cult will fall.

Angry Man wrote on Feb 9, 2008 5:44 AM:Scientology is a pyramid scheme set up to make you spend money in order to reach so called enlightenment. You would have to be extremely gullible (and desperate) to accept the fact that you cannot manage your life without receiving guidance from books and audio tapes for large amounts of cash. If people had the answer to happiness, don't you think it would be free (or cheap enough) for the whole world to enjoy? Yeah, Scientology has helped people around the world and has celebrity's such as tom cruise but dont you think that might just be a cover up for the past few decades where ex-scientologist have been accusing the so called church of destroying their lives. The legal team of scientology has always silenced any negative critics with lawsuits and dark propoganda. Don't believe me? google "fair game" and watch videos on ... for gods sake.

Your piece on scientology is one sided.You are either a very bad journalist, you've been payed/blackmailed by scientology, and/or you are a scientologist yourself. Try to get the whole story before you start ranting like a cult member.

1100101001010110111 wrote on Feb 9, 2008 6:09 AM:In addition to what others have said, I would just like to point out that the claim of "3.5 million Americans" having Scientology as "their belief system" is an exaggeration in the extreme. The 2001 U.S. Census recorded 55,000 self-identified Scientologists, and the actual number worldwide is probably no more than about 100,000.

You can find the U.S. Census data-sheet for that in this .pdf file here: http://www.census.gov/prod/2004pubs/04statab/pop.pdf
It's in section 68.

According to census data, there are actually more than twice as many Wiccans in the United States as Scientologists. Wicca was also a religion that came about in the 20th Century, so Scientology's claim to be "the only major religion founded in the 20th Century" is rather dubious, even if one ignores how many members one needs to count as a "major" religion.

1100101001010110111 wrote on Feb 9, 2008 6:11 AM:In addition to what others have said, I would just like to point out that the claim of "3.5 million Americans" having Scientology as "their belief system" is an exaggeration in the extreme. The 2001 U.S. Census recorded 55,000 self-identified Scientologists, and the actual number worldwide is probably no more than about 100,000.

Forgive this if it is a double post. The first attempt to post this did not show up.

You can find the U.S. Census data-sheet for that in this .pdf file here: http://www.census.gov/prod/2004pubs/04statab/pop.pdf
It's in section 68.

According to census data, there are actually more than twice as many Wiccans in the United States as Scientologists. Wicca was also a religion that came about in the 20th Century, so Scientology's claim to be "the only major religion founded in the 20th Century" is rather dubious, even if one ignores how many members one needs to count as a "major" religion.

Bob wrote on Feb 9, 2008 6:57 AM:Am I the only one that thinks all the pro-$cientology comments are made by the same person?

Elron wrote on Feb 9, 2008 7:09 AM:How do I sleep at night?

On a big pile of cash, thats how!

Non mus wrote on Feb 9, 2008 7:20 AM:So where is the information on the RPF? The camps you are sent to when you express doubt or simply want to leave? Where you are stripped of your basic human rights.

And what about the fact that if you want to leave you have to sign a waiver? Or how when you progress up the bridge you have to sign an NDA? Or the fact that there is always another step? You never reach the end. Why wasn't this put in this article about this religion? If you are going to tell a story, tell the whole story.

Anon wrote on Feb 9, 2008 7:25 AM:Way to completely ignore the issue. And I thought the NC Times had integrity.

Dale wrote on Feb 9, 2008 7:44 AM:Hubbard is not an expert mariner. He lied. ...

Tom wrote on Feb 9, 2008 8:10 AM:ALL Religions are mind control techniques used to divide and control the masses. Religions allow 1% of the population to easily conrol the other 99% by keeping us(the 99%) fighting with each other instead of fighting with them. It's one of the oldest tricks in the book! Scientology was created because the old versions(Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism, etc.) were not working as well as they used to. So, a newer, more modern belief system was created. One for the new breed of thinkers that were coming into existence. One that INCORPORATES SCIENCE into it's beliefs. Now, this new, modern belief has more value, more credit, because it has science. Over time it gained enough followers and became a religion. I see it as being no different than any other religion. It's no better or worse. Just people taking advantage of the weak minded. This article just makes me feel stronger about my beliefs on all religions. So I leave you with this...It's better to follow yourself through Hell than to follow someone else to Heaven.

Wog wrote on Feb 9, 2008 8:22 AM:What church charges over $400 an hour for spiritual counseling?

L. Ron Hubbard's Church of Scientology

Bertie wrote on Feb 9, 2008 9:37 AM:Thanks for the article. Great one. It's clear, from the rants of various commenters here, that this kind of unbiased, honest reporting is needed. The amount of misinformation that has been generated about Scientology by irresponsible media has everything to do with why people post such hateful comments.

Frank wrote on Feb 9, 2008 9:59 AM:Seems to be an article with facts rather than the usual hearsay and rumors I see sometimes in media.
As an outsider, I see what Anonymous says and it appears to me that they are a bunch of disgruntled ex-Scientologists or just people bitter with pretty much any religious progress.

Xenu wrote on Feb 9, 2008 10:33 AM:This article is pure failure. How can someone copy and paste a press release and call themselves a journalist?

... This is garbage.

Sit David ... wrote on Feb 9, 2008 11:04 AM:I'm so glad that this reporter only asked the $cientologists what they believe and didn't mention anything about Xenu. ...

What about Operation Snow White? What about Operation Freakout and Paulette Cooper? What about Lisa McPherson?

LRH wrote on Feb 9, 2008 11:22 AM:People who work for the benefit of man kind deserve to be treated with dignity and respect. The members of this cult use lies,confusion, and deception to learn enough about "your crimes" your fears, and your monetary income, that they know exactly what to say and do to keep you a sheep. If your organization was truly an organization for peace they would have nothing to fear, but the fact that it uses the guise of a helpful religion, to infiltrate and take advantage the already weak and helpless people it claims to be helping. Luring people into drug treatment programs with falsified statistics and success rate, then telling them to take money from friends and family to give more to the church. The fact is, if the church was actuly doing what the article claims it does , this organization wouldn't have to spend the amount of money it does on slandering and digging up information and filing lawsuits on "SPs". The thing all u supporters of this opinion piece is that LRH himself said all men who hide behind masks of good (religion/ politicians/ect... Despite the fact the LRH admits knowing about this what makes your org any different do you truly think act speak for yourself, or are you just fallowing what your told.

Concerned wrote on Feb 9, 2008 11:39 AM:I'm shocked and horrified that a newspaper could cover one side of this story without covering the other. ... Don't be fooled.

CyberChrist wrote on Feb 9, 2008 12:49 PM:Why the heel would the ED allow this obviously biased diatribe. $cientology is not a religion. Only the US government is fool enuff to grant these crooks tax exemption. You time is very limited CoS.

WOG1 wrote on Feb 9, 2008 12:50 PM:What a lousy article. Pro-Sci = you are on the wrong team. have a nice FAIL

Kevin wrote on Feb 9, 2008 1:14 PM:I heard a couple of these Anonymous Freaks on talk back radio, trying to deride Scientology with the Xenu Story. I think these Anonymous Freaks actually beleive what they are pushing, not having ever looked at the subject themselves.

The Zenu Story is a fairy tale designed to make Scientology look silly and stop people looking at it.

Anon wrote on Feb 9, 2008 1:17 PM:Bob: "Am I the only one that thinks all the pro-$cientology comments are made by the same person?"

Actually, it wouldn't surprise me if they were all individuals. If you watch any video of a Scientologist talking they all say THE EXACT SAME THING. This is because they are brainwashed. It would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

Apolled at this article wrote on Feb 9, 2008 1:20 PM:I cannot believe the North County Times would run an article like this. This is just not OK.

To: Observer wrote on Feb 9, 2008 1:22 PM:No, Not the last but the First Christion died on Calvery's cross as planned and His name not was but IS JESUS.

davidM wrote on Feb 9, 2008 2:44 PM:Dear Ruth, a great piece, the business needs more people like you, the way you accentuated only the bits that make my business look good and eliminated everything else, it makes me feel proud, I've even mentioned you by name in my blog,

Anonymous wrote on Feb 9, 2008 3:09 PM:Wow. Any concept of Journalistic Integrity went straight out the window the second this piece was published. This reads much like an internal CoS press release.

Interesting, however, that most of the pro-scientology comments in this comments section share similar misspellings and grammatical errors. It would be interesting to take a look at the IP addresses originating these comments and see how many lead straight back to Sea Org folks.

For all of you folks claiming Scientology is a religion - I can go to any temple, mosque, or church and have any of my questions regarding any and all beliefs answered for free. Why is it that if I want to find out all of the answers in Scientology, it will cost me $360,000? ...

davidM wrote on Feb 9, 2008 3:28 PM:Dear Ruth, a great piece, the business needs more people like you, the way you accentuated only the bits that make my business look good and eliminated everything else, it makes me feel proud, I've even mentioned you by name in my blog.

Of this world wrote on Feb 9, 2008 3:36 PM:Xenu, Jesus, the Hindu monkey god, Zeus, the Mormon angel Moroni, goblins, etc etc etc. What's the differnce, they're all man-made fictional characters.

Rick R. wrote on Feb 9, 2008 3:49 PM:Re: everyone who thinks Anonymous hates scientology.

Anonymous has no issue with the religion of scientology. What people choose to beleive is thier own choice. They do, however, have an issue with the RTC and the other shadowy corporate organziations that charge followers of scientology exorbiant fees and exercise dictatorial control over thier lives.

Religion should be free. Anonymous is going to be out there tomorrow because they support the freedom of everyone, including scientologists.

In Honor of Lisa M. wrote on Feb 9, 2008 3:50 PM:This sounds as if it was written by a scientologist. Like an infomercial you would see on late-night TV.

who is lisa mcpherson?
what is xenu?
what is operation snow white?
what is Project Rehabilitation Force?
why does a religion NEED trade secrets?

question scientology.

NUSerenity wrote on Feb 9, 2008 4:05 PM:I believe many comments supporting this article are form the same person, reaosn for this is as follows.

Most names are quite arbitrary, or include a surname like MarkIV or MaryW.

However, nearly ALL the posts for Scientology are written by a poster who states common first names as a name. e.g

Chris, Richard, Vickie, Lee, Pat, Jeanne, Jack, Gary, Kipsner...

Thats deifnatly too much a trend to be coincidence

Anonymous wrote on Feb 9, 2008 4:06 PM:I am fighting for freedom of religion. I want to be able to choose to worship any religion without having to pay thousands of dollars for it. I want to be a scientologist, but I cannot afford it. How is that freedom?


Freedom of religion is what we are fighting for.

wtf wrote on Feb 9, 2008 4:18 PM:Scientologist sucks!!!!! is not a relgion and it should be banned like in Germany!!!

bob d. wrote on Feb 9, 2008 4:57 PM:
Spot on, NUSerenity, just google names
like "Luana,Terryeo,Lightfield,Grnapl,
Churilov,Arkaitz" along with the word
"scientology", it's part of a concerted
effort to spin pro-scientology propaganda into threads like this one, and many times the posters hid their agenda. Maybe it's not one person, but definitel a concerted effort.

Good Lord wrote on Feb 9, 2008 4:59 PM:You think you could have mentioned ONE of the transgressions of scientology? ONE?

This is propaganda, pure and simple.

bob_d. wrote on Feb 9, 2008 5:01 PM: Spot on, NUSerenity, just google names
like "Luana,Terryeo,Lightfield,Grnapl,
Churilov,Arkaitz" along with the word
"scientology", it's part of a concerted
effort to spin pro-scientology propaganda into threads like this one, and many times the posters hid their agenda. Maybe it's not one person, but definitel a concerted effort.

Anonymous wrote on Feb 9, 2008 5:08 PM:This has got to be the sappiest, least critical article ever written about the Scientology cult/racket.

Vista Resident wrote on Feb 9, 2008 5:26 PM:The comments posted here remind me of the persecution of early Christians. They were burned at the stake and thrown to the lions. Why? They were presenting ideas that were outside of mainstrain thought. Remember that Romans of the time worshipped all kinds of God -- Zeus etc.

Jesus was crucified despite his wonderful healing works because he attempted to share new views to the world like "God is Love" "Love your enemies" "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" "We are all God's children (see the Lord's Prayer)" "The kingdom of heaven is at hand". When Stephen tried to share the gospel (good news), his listeners stopped up their ears and then stoned him to death.

I am not a Scientologist. However, I have witnessed so much lying about other religions by those that either don't have firsthand knowledge or that have dubious motives that I usually dismiss diatribes against religion when I read them. The only negative post above that I would treat with any credibility is the one from the guy who says he took the courses and failed to achieve the enlightenment that he sought.

As for the census, it's possible that not every Scientologist was counted in the census.

I appreciate the author of this article for bring the Scientologists viewpoint to us as they see it. And, I look forward to more articles like it about other religions.

The Furluminati wrote on Feb 9, 2008 5:41 PM:Your "religion" is nearing its downfall. Anonymous will help you see the truth.

Expect us.

Anonymous wrote on Feb 9, 2008 5:52 PM:Please understand that Scientology is not a religion. Anyone who is not a scientologist is either indifferent or has a bad opinion about the "Church" of Scietology. Any favorable opinion from the comments is propaganda from a scientologist.

Anonymous wrote on Feb 9, 2008 6:16 PM:In response to Vista Resident -

Readers may find it interesting to google "I'm not a scientologist, but" (leave the quotes in) - you'll find many responses that are almost verbatim the pro-scientology responses in this article.

As a Catholic, I am offended by your comparisons of Scientology to early Christianity. Anonymous is not persecuting the rank-and-file Scientologists, and encourages them and all to believe exactly what they want to believe. However, the vast corruption of the corporation called a "church" itself deserves worldwide exposure, which it will continue to get across the nation and the world tomorrow morning.

Anonymous wrote on Feb 9, 2008 7:24 PM:(Read the following statement out loud, in a robotic voice):

Church of Scientology and leading associates,

Tomorrow will be February 10th, 2008, the beginning of the downfall of a doctrine whose time for retirement is long overdue. Reality, facts, and a hard-ridden sense of justice are combined factors in the February 10th protest that is to take place in mere hours. Be prepared, because articles like these will be dull blades compared to the Excalibur of information that the world will be witness to after our movement.

We are Anonymous.
We are Legion.
We do not Forgive.
We do not Forget.
Expect Us.

Anonymous wrote on Feb 9, 2008 9:13 PM:'Anonymous' is not a "hate group", nor are we "terrorists", nor are we a "gang"; or any other sensationalistic misnomer that a few of the above posters have labeled us as.

We are a leaderless, collective internet movement. We are composed of people from all walks of life, who have united in order to achieve a single goal: to eliminate the influence of a quasi-legal, for-profit, business organization known as "The Church of Scientology".

Our goal is not to attack individual Scientologists, or even the religion of Scientology. Many people choose to practice this religion independently, and they have been socially harassed and legally attacked for doing so by the pyramid-scheme organization: "The Church of Scientology".

Religion and belief should be free, not paid for.

We are legion.

Expect us.



(P.S. Trust us, we're not that scary.)

to Anonymous wrote on Feb 9, 2008 11:02 PM:You're a fanatic and you need to get a life.

Anonymous wrote on Feb 10, 2008 12:34 AM:Quite frankly, I find Anonymous about as ridiculous as Scientology, actually. (Or at least as ridiculous as L. Ron Hubbard's Xenu Mythology) It's difficult to say if the whole Chanology/Anonymous movement will develop into a genuine, sustained socially conscious Anti-Scientology movement, or will just end up another short-lived internet prankster meme.
It's interesting how quickly it went mainstream, though. I've got a Christian soccer-mom (Who normally would NEVER be one of those silly protester people) and an avowed athiest both going with me to protest the local Scientology Church on Sunday.
I mean, I'm sure you don't agree with us, and that's fine. It's just a lot of people tend to find your religion a bit creepy when they read into it.
It would help if Scientology would a little more transparent to the public about what they believe, and their taxes and things. Then there was that small matter of Scientologists convicted of trying to infiltrate the F.B.I. back in the 70's.

That's fanaticism.

We are Anonymous
We are Legion
We do not forget
We do not forgive
Expect us

Dave in Vista wrote on Feb 10, 2008 12:42 AM: I find this story a bit disturbing. I've read the North County Times for years, and it's not the kind of level-headed journalism I've come to appreciate and expect from the paper.
The Times would never run a story like this about Christianity, Islam, or Hinduism. With due respect, the article comes across as a bit evangelical.

Anonymous to: Scientologists wrote on Feb 10, 2008 1:43 AM: I'm a former Church of Scientology member, and I've come to understand, firsthand- it's a sick organization. I still practice Scientology as a Free Zone member- and I support Anonymous.
Both Scientologists and Anonymous are definitely spamming this article with posts, simply because it's a number seven Google News hit at this point.
Ironically, I'm applying a lot of the online tactics I learned as a member of the Church of Scientology on behalf of Anonymous.
The only difference is that Scientologists tend to be tricky and use different names when making their statements in order to control online posting forums. Whereas Anonymous is at least honest in name and intention. (

LinusX wrote on Feb 10, 2008 2:23 AM: I never really knew what Scientology was about outside of Tom Cruise. After reading this unnerving article, and the bizarre pro/con- stances of all the comment posts following it, I think I don't want to. I can't believe a real newspaper published this.

Kierthos wrote on Feb 10, 2008 5:33 AM:Show me another religion with trade secrets that they go to court for to keep out of the hands of non-believers. You can't. I can go into into large-chain bookstore and buy copies of the Bible, the Qu'ran, or practically any religious book I want. I can't just walk into a bookstore and buy the OT materials. Why is that?

Show me another religion that charges its' members for its services. Christianity? There's no charge for going to church services, taking part in communion, or giving confession. But Scientology courses can and do run thousands of dollars. And these are the same Scientology courses which are copyrighted and considered trade secrets.

So we're back to my first point. They are the only "religion" that does this. There is no "super secret" Bible that only the ultra-deserving Christians get to read and talk about.

What is the Church of Scientology hiding from not only those of us outside the church, but their own members who have yet to take these courses? It couldn't be that their doctrines are so flimsy and poorly reasoned that only those brainwashed into the cult are the only ones to fall for them, could it?

Anonymous wrote on Feb 10, 2008 6:09 AM:This is a horrible article, obviously written by one of Scientology's brainwashed (edit: people). There is nothing intelligent, modern, or profound about Scientology. It is based upon medi�val extortionist principles.

Educate yourself on the true nature of Scientology (edit)

Anonymous wrote on Feb 10, 2008 6:41 AM:This report reads more like a dianetics manual than a news article, it is clearly pro scientology propaganda

Anonymous wrote on Feb 10, 2008 7:07 AM:ah i see the person who wrote the story is a scientologist, as the story is titled
"What we believe"
now let me tell you what is truth.
l ron was not any of those things you mentioned (he was a science fiction writer, a bad one at that) he was a liar, thief, and a crook. he died while on the run from the feds, leaving his third wife to rot in jail for his crimes.

we are anonymous
we are legion
we never forget
we will not forgive.

expect us !

christians wrote on Feb 10, 2008 7:57 AM:believe that a virgin gave birth to a diety that died and came back to life. Sounds no more far fetched than the scientologists beliefs. Religious people are funny because in their minds they are the only ones with the right beliefs and everyone else is wrong. They go on and on about why their belief system is the "one true way to salvation" and show total intolerence for any other opinions or beliefs.

Una wrote on Feb 10, 2008 11:29 AM:Good article. Disturbing comment section. Kind of ruins the article for me.

Anonymous wrote on Feb 10, 2008 2:32 PM: Disturbing Article. Good comment section.

Expect us

To Anonymous who ever you (all) may be wrote on Feb 10, 2008 2:52 PM:Why would anyone associate them selves with [people] who went by the name Legion(for we are many)? Sounds a little pointless to me to work so hard and go so far out of your way just to be on the loosing side!!

Looking deeper wrote on Feb 10, 2008 4:08 PM:A belief is a belief, and, although you find people trying to change a persons beliefs, it's a hard thing to do. But, for others to be informed, you shouldn't have to pay

Knowledge is free, $cientology isn't

Vista Resident wrote on Feb 10, 2008 4:54 PM:Plenty of Christians are tolerant, follow the *Golden Rule*, and would never even THINK of picketting somebody else's religion.

Randy wrote on Feb 10, 2008 7:31 PM:It make me laugh to see the fear from such
"anonymous" people. You write an article that is factual, to the point and I thank you and commend you.

Anonymous wrote on Feb 10, 2008 8:04 PM: Anonymous would never picket someone else's religion either. We're picketing a dubious and highly profitable business.
There is a distinction between the religion of Scientology, and the money-making pyramid-scheme masquerading as the 'Church of $cientology'.
Most Christians wouldn't bilk people out of their life-savings by selling them each gospel at $1,000.00 a piece.

We are Anonymous
We are legion
We do not forget
We do not forgive
Expect us

Shoumiyan wrote on Feb 10, 2008 8:42 PM: OK. The North County Times is a small news organization that caters to the local community. They do mostly by-the-books reporting without a lot of investigative journalism.
In defense of the newspaper: This article appeared in the "Religion" section, which is appropriate. Most people I know have no idea what the basic practices and beliefs of Scientology actually are; and the article covered these in a cursory manner. Wether dealing with immigrant groups, city governments, or religions; it's journalistically responsible to accurately portray each group's biased opinions (In this case, those of Scientology) while maintaining a factual neutral tone. This article did that.
The only thing that's curious to me is that this is only the second article the North County Times has ever published on Scientology. It's odd that they chose to (coincidently) publish such an article amidst the public criticisms currently popularizing this religion in the mainstream news, while making no mention of those well-documented issues.

To: NCTimes wrote on Feb 10, 2008 11:34 PM:WOW, Censorship is Alive and Well with you at North County Times, Why did you rewrite my 2:52 PM comment? Your version made NO sense at all.

livewire wrote on Feb 11, 2008 12:08 AM:You forgot to mention in your article the cost of goeing thru these auditing sessions etc. Its all a money scam. Oh what about a "SP"? You better be rich to go to this church cause after you go you will be broke!! Nice to call yourself a "religion", its a money making business.

What a Story wrote on Feb 11, 2008 5:30 AM:This story has been up for about 5 days and look at all the fear and hate and garbage directed at this group. By most accounts they have never done anything to hurt anyone and yet so many of the comments are like you people personally know that they have done something terrible! Get a grip! Nobody is making anybody do anything against their own will. Nobody forces anyone to go to this place or do anything. Take a moment and try to figure out why all of you have jumped on the band wagon to bash this organization. I would be interested to hear good honest replies about why, because it certainly does't make sense to me.

Anonymous wrote on Feb 11, 2008 5:48 AM:For those who wants to join Scientology I hope you have loads of money to give them.

Applewhite wrote on Feb 11, 2008 7:28 AM:After reading the following I was convinced that this group is nothing more than a twisted fan club.

They revere a package of Hubbard's cigarettes? Please. Elvis, where are you when we need you?

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

..."Among those followers are Kathy and Ed Marsh of Escondido. The library in their guesthouse is home to thousands of first edition and signed volumes, many written by Hubbard. The room also contains pieces of Hubbard memorabilia that Ed Marsh, a Scientologist since 1969, has collected over the years, such as a package of Hubbard's favorite Kool cigarettes and his early aviator helmet.

But Scientology is not about worshipping Hubbard, said Meyer, who has been the president of the Church of Scientology of San Diego for the last two years."

American Mike wrote on Feb 11, 2008 10:01 AM:Wow, what a refreshing article. Kudos to the NC Times for carrying it.

Vista Resident wrote on Feb 11, 2008 11:32 AM:I would like to see more NCTimes religious articles that tell "What We Believe". The forces that move our society are invisible because they are often religious. If, however, this newspaper felt compelled to write an accompanying article each time detailing the dirt on any religion that dares to post a "What We Believe" piece, then who on earth would submit an article to be published in this religious section?

One of the blogs above claims to be from a Catholic. Do you think the Catholic church would want to post a "What We Believe" article if it knew that any disaffected Catholic opinion and every piece of dirt on the church was going to be published in an accompanying article?

Nobody would be foolish enough to post a "What We Believe" article in such a circumstance because there are always going to be naysayers no matter what the belief -- and that includes atheists. And, that makes us continue on in our separate ways -- not having a clue about each other's religions -- and what makes us tick.

Recently, I read my first article about what Mormon's believe in an online newspaper because Romney was running for President. Previous to that, the only thing I really knew about Mormons is that they don't smoke or drink, are big into geneology, store up supplies like food in case of disaster, evangelize big-time, and are just really, really nice people.

esteban wrote on Feb 11, 2008 12:14 PM:I'm all for freedom of religion, and you can believe whatever you want...but if you buy this bull...you are just plain dumb. Tom Cruise? I rest my case.

Cathy wrote on Feb 11, 2008 3:56 PM:I went to look for myself what Scientology was, seetting aside all propaganda. What did I find? Scientology is very good and useful and fun! That's all.

Who do you follow? wrote on Feb 11, 2008 4:08 PM:"I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." -Jesus of
Nazareth.

There is one way to God, and it is His Son. Don't follow a man-made fraud like Hubbard. Seek the Lord! He loves you and made you and knows you.

Anonymous wrote on Feb 11, 2008 8:07 PM: Most of the Anonymous's or Scientologists who commented on this article meerly expressed either a prefounded 'pro', or a 'con' stance, without forming any sort of reasonable argument addressing the article's content.

The above quote by Shoumiyan is probably the only reasonable response to this article I've read among all the commenters. It directly addressed the content of the news article, the context in which it was placed in the newspaper, and critiqued it's relevancy to the reader given the circumstances and timing in which it was published.

By my appraisal, if one was a member of the commercial organization: The Church of Scientology, or a Free Zone member who chose to practice the religion of Scientology independently; (albeit at risk of personal harassment by The Church of Scientology org.) this article would be an accurate and neutral description of one's basic beliefs. And so, I believe it to be journalistically valid.

The Scientology scriptures, ritual practices, and beliefs of which the NC Times article makes mention; are all commercially trade-marked and copyrighted properties owned by The Church of Scientology org. This practice directly contradicts the 1st Amendment of freedom of religion by making no distinction between religion and a commercial property. The article occludes this information.

My question to you would be: Is it possible to separate the religion of Scientology, from the Church of Scientology business that sells it?

We are anonymous
We are legion
We do not forgive
We do not forget
Expect us

NANU-NANU wrote on Feb 11, 2008 8:37 PM:Sounds like a bad episode from Mork and Mindy.WE come in peace?!!

Anonymous5x7mf wrote on Feb 11, 2008 9:38 PM: Christians don't charge $5,000.00 for a baptism. Muslims don't pay annual membership fees to read the Koran. Jews don't socially ostracize their own relatives should they choose stop going to synagogue. Buddhists don't charge an hourly rate for meditation. No legitimate religion would do such things.

The Church of Scientology does.

You can't copyright a cross.

We are Anonymous
We are legion
Expect us

Christian wrote on Feb 12, 2008 9:00 AM:Did Guiness book of world records forget that the bible has been on the best selling list for 2000 years?
Bring in the robots.

John Smith wrote on Feb 12, 2008 9:50 AM:Why do news reports just accept the claims of Scientology with no research or verification of any kind?

This article states that there are 3.5 million Scientologists in the United States. Yet the census data from 2001 shows on 55,000 members on page 55 of this report: http://www.census.gov/prod/2004pubs/04statab/pop.pdf

Being a reporter carries with it an obligation to be skeptical of information presented as fact and checking it out. Quit being lazy and start checking this stuff out.

Vista Resident wrote on Feb 12, 2008 10:47 AM:Anonymous, are you saying that Joel Osteen should not receive royalties from his best selling books?

Anonymous, your posts certainly are legion anyway -- I counted 26 postings above.

Please know that the Bible assures us that "one with God is a majority". So, it doesn't matter who claims they are legion.

anotherview wrote on Feb 12, 2008 11:23 AM:If R. M. Webster had written a straight report on Scientology and its founder L. Ron Hubbard, the fanatic Scientologists would have mounted an aggressive attack on her. The Los Angeles area of California, as a hotbed friendly to cultism and far-out notions, provided an ideal setting for spawning this preposterous babble called Scientology. Of course, many adherents of Scientology later find their senses, and depart this organization in critical disappointment. Yet, this report omits their insider view. Further, L. Ron Hubbard possessed a dark side to his personality, left unreported in this puff piece. Two of my family members have personally experienced the tenets of Scientology. My father met L. Ron Hubbard early in his career, and dubbed him a nutball. In short, Scientology cannot withstand objective analysis, or meet the test of coherence. A close parsing of the utterances of Scientologists reveals fundamentally poor expression of ideas. Scientology gags the intellect. One might conclude that uncritical, troubled minds find relief in Scientology precisely because its babble appeals to their fuzzy mental outlook. The persistence of Scientology mirrors the struggle of L. Ron Hubbard to promote himself. Thank goodness we live in an age of endless information allowing us to develop an informed view of such matters. This sunshine will over time expose Scientology and its fatal shortcomings.

clam-man wrote on Feb 12, 2008 5:35 PM:I believe I was the one who brought Ed Marsh a couple of Dianetics books while he was in the hospital. I don't remember the "Cold Duck", but I distinctly remember a plastic marijuana plant. We both signed up for the Communications Course in San Diego. Though Ed and I were friends, he was by nurture and nature quite a bit more ambitious than I, and when things became too seriouos and intense going across the "Bridge", I had to leave. If Ed was destined to do well within the "game" of Scientology, I would've probably ended up one the many basket cases that burned out. I enjoyed my friendship with Ed, he was funny, and we had a few common interests and outlooks. I guess I was an Ed Marsh "fan" while he was becoming an L. Ron Hubbard fan. We used to listen to LRH tapes and Ed and I would be amused by Ron's vocal idiosyncrasies. I could tell that Ed was highly impressed with what LRH had done. No matter my personal opinion on Scientology, etc., I feel happy that Ed was able to reach those early goals of success he had within the Church. I believe that early on, Ed DID find, in Scientology, something within which he could focus and use his natural drive and talents for success, AND serve some higher purpose. Well done Ed, and I wish you continued success and happiness.

Vista Resident wrote on Feb 12, 2008 8:57 PM:I read today that the Prince of Wales feels that he should be the "defender of faiths". "The Queen emphasised that it was easy to focus on the differences between religions rather than what they have in common. " -- TimesOnline

Also, today "An assembly representing Conservative rabbis worldwide expressed dismay on Tuesday over a revised Roman Catholic prayer calling for the conversion of Jews..." --Reuter's Canada

During the holocaust, some major religions in Germany stood by and did nothing while the Jews were persecuted. There is even evidence that in some instances there was collusion with the Nazis in persecution of Jews.

I find it inspiring when citizens are willing to stand up for the other guy's right to religious freedom. It's easy to stand up for your own right to religious freedom. But, it takes moral courage to stand up for somebody else's freedom of religion and civil liberties.

There was discussion above of how Scientologists count their members. I know of one major religion where they count you as a member forever -- even if you switch to another church. When Jesus encountered a mob about to stone a woman taken in adultery, he told the group that he who was without sin should cast the first stone.


First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.
Pastor Martin Niemöller

Concerned-1 wrote on Feb 14, 2008 2:41 PM:What a blog! That was fun. I feel sorry for a lot of the posters, but they made their choices. As for me, it took me less than a day (back in '69') to determine exactly what Scientology was all about. Money. It amazes me so many people are fooled by it. Anyway, good luck to all.

Josef Goebbels wrote on Feb 15, 2008 11:55 AM:Mein Fuhrer instructed us that if we told a lie big enough and often enough people would believe it. So we did, and I made it my life's work to craft masterful lies that bolstered the esteem of my countrymen.

Mr. Hubbard is a charlatan! How dare he take our philosophies and steal our game plan and use it to his financial gain! You cultist slaves have allowed this perversion!

Vista Resident wrote on Feb 18, 2008 12:55 AM:I've been thinking about the charge made above by some that Scientologists are just a bunch of money-grubbers.

It wasn't long ago that I was complaining to my Mom over lunch that a US senators was pursuing some of the most successful Christian televangelists because their organizations were paying salaries too high to qualify for the IRS religious exemption. Whenever I see a Senator of one church pursuing different churches, it always makes me uneasy. I always wonder about the underlying intent.

But, Mom said she was in agreement with the senator. She said that to qualify for a religious exemption you have to show that you are a relgion -- take a vow of poverty because you are receiving the widow's mite. I could kind of see her point. I do support our current tax laws because I don't feel they have unduly oppressed religion. But, on the other hand, what if the broadcasts of the televangelist had so improved the viewer's life that he wanted to send in big contributions? If the televangelist is succeeding at his job of improving the TV viewer's life, should he really be required to take a vow of poverty?

I used to feel that poverty is noble and was advocated by Jesus when he said that he didn't possess anything. Jesus said that we should "take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, drink, and wear". And, Jesus sent out his disciples to share the gospel (good news) with nothing but the clothes on their backs.

But, I had a change of heart after talking with someone that I respect. She said that Jesus sent his disciples out with nothing only once. She said that Jesus tended to stay at the best place in town as he roamed about.

For example, Jesus stayed at the home of one of the richest men in town when he stayed at the house of Zacheus. Jesus was in a crowd of followers when he came upon Zacheus, a local tax collector and a thief. Jesus told Zacheus that he would come stay at his house. The crowd was aghast. Jesus was going to honor with his presence a man that was part of the local corrupt power structure? But, Jesus stayed in one of the richest houses in town AND he healed Zacheus. Zacheus pledged to make restitution to his victims four times as great as what he had stolen. Zacheus promised to give half of all his goods to the poor. Talk about a healing to the local government! I think Jesus deserved to stay at one of the nicest homes in town. It was a total Win-Win.

When Jesus sent out his disciples with nothing but the clothes on their backs, he was expecting them to feel God's abundant provision in the same way that Jesus did. Remember when Jesus fed thousands in the desert in moments? Jesus didn't need a lot of stuff because he felt God's providence so completely. And, it was evident in his life wherever he went. He expected his disciples to follow him in doing this.

So, now I believe that being a good Christian means feeling God's abundant provision -- and expecting it to be evident in every aspect of life -- for everyone.

As for myself, for anything like Scientology where I would have to pay in advance, first I would have to hear from a trusted friend who had experienced the benefits first-hand. That's just common sense. However, I already have a religion which I like very much. So, I'm not looking around for anything else.