When Pigs Fly wrote on Feb 15, 2008 6:54 AM:Let Me Count the ways you are WRONG Mr. Riehl. Illegal immigrants and their children do not have a right to live off of the taxes that are supplied by American citizens, thus the American taxpayer does not have an 'obligation' to support these lawbreakers via free education at the expense of American taxpaying children and their parents. Second, whether the illegals are under the 'jurisdiction' of the U.S. educational is a question for the courts, not you or the educational community to answer. Third the economic toll of the illegal immigrant community is being felt right now, and it will only get worse as we plunge into a dark recession. The fact is, the illegal community are siphoning off taxpayer dollars to further their own personal gain. Their illegal status is permitting them to avoid two of the highest expenses in this country - education and medical care. In short, their illegal presence in California is depriving California taxpayers of funds necessary to provide public services and support to the taxpayers and their families. My only hope is that someone in D.C. or Sacramento finally understands that the taxpayers don't have any more money to give to bail the state or the country out of this financial mess and will start aggressively deporting the people that are responsible for stealing taxpayer funds to support their illegal lifestyle. However, being the realist that I am, I certain that pigs will fly before Sacramento and D.C. will admit that there is a problem and take steps to correct it.

Patriot wrote on Feb 15, 2008 8:08 AM:It is in this country's best interest to give its children the best education possible. It's easy to make villains out of the illegal aliens. But they wouldn't be here crowding our schools with their children if we weren't dangling a big carrot in front of their faces: an unsecured border and unenforced labor laws.

Educate Our Own First wrote on Feb 15, 2008 8:57 AM:I agree with When Pigs Fly. What obligation do we have to pay the education and health care for illegals and their offspring? You must have a much larger pocketbook Mr. Riehl than most tax paying Americans. I have no children, but still pay property taxes which have 3 bond measures for schools in which I have no child attending. This money should be used to provide a better quality of education to our own citizen students. Look at the denegration of the quality of education our own children receive because we are so busy teaching English to illegal immigrant children. In so doing, we are failing to prepare our own children to compete in a global economy. We must use our resources wisely and charity begins at home. You don't feed your neighbor's children until your own have a full belly.

dave from oceanside wrote on Feb 15, 2008 9:07 AM:

Sponsors for legal immigrants are required to be, US citizens AND financially responsible for the welfare of the immigrant or immigrants they vowed to support.
This was and still is a requirement for legal immigration into this country.
So now here we go with another liberal thinking we the taxpayers should take an uneducated person, illegal at that, and educate them and their children with OUR taxes.
I don’t think so!!!!
If you are so concerned about their welfare, then take it upon yourself to become their legal $ponsor.

Olaf wrote on Feb 15, 2008 9:19 AM:Secure the border! Then figure out what to do. The tax paying legal person out there is being weighed down with the free loaders. Our freeways/roads/etc... are crowded, schools crowded, infrastructure outpaced because of the influxes of peoples. I agree with Richard on somethings like the teachers doing a good job. Teaching in these circumstances is unthinkable and they do it everyday. Hopefully government will stop this mess sooner rather then later.

Karl wrote on Feb 15, 2008 9:46 AM:To "Patriot wrote on Feb 15, 2008 8:08 AM" Or is okay to give all the children a mediocre education for the benefit of a few? How many illegal immigrants are too amny?

Patriot to Karl wrote on Feb 15, 2008 12:40 PM:One illegal alien is one too many. However, because of the 14th Amendment, we taxpayers are stuck with paying for educating the children of illegal aliens; there is no way around that. And our children pay the cost in overcrowded classrooms and mediocre educations, like you say. My point is, since we are required to educate every illegal alien's child, let's get serious about stopping the flow of illegal aliens into the country. Secure the border to stop new arrivals. Enforce existing labor laws and bust companies that employ illegal aliens. Once the illegal jobs dry up, unemployment will cause many to pack up and return home. Those companies that miss the labor badly enough can then offer living wages to citizens or legal immigrants, pay them benefits, and stop forcing the public to bear all of the financial and social costs. To those companies that depend on illegal aliens to compete, I say they don't belong in business.

dave from oceanside wrote on Feb 15, 2008 1:02 PM:To Patriot:
Congress possesses the power to exclude such illegal immigrant children from US citizenship by legislation, such legislation is often proposed by individual members of Congress but has never been passed into law.
That indicates the law can be modified if we so choose.

Olaf wrote on Feb 15, 2008 1:20 PM:I agree with you Patriot. Educate those that have to be. secure the border, stop the jobs. The problem I see is not that it will drive anybody back it will just make them more desperate for money. We would need to watch out for crime and then the soft hearted who will eventually come out against that and say "look what you are forcing them to do, you are forcing them into criminal activities"... yeap! I can see it now. But I still agree with you. Give them a viable path to citizenship. They would have to work for it but at least it is a path. That's my two cents.

dave from oceanside wrote on Feb 15, 2008 5:38 PM:To Patriot:
Congress possesses the power to exclude such illegal immigrant children from US citizenship by legislation, such legislation is often proposed by individual members of Congress but has never been passed into law.
That indicates the law can be modified if we so choose.

Karl to Patriot wrote on Feb 15, 2008 6:48 PM:Excellent answer!!

Maybe time wrote on Feb 15, 2008 7:19 PM:for Congress to quit wasting tax payers money with drugs in major league sports and go after the major problems such as illegal immigration, terrorist on American soil and a host of other MAJOR PROBLEMS, unless they are to terrified of the American tax payers. Now if they are to terrified maybe time we all stop paying taxes until these cowards can do their job they are paid to do.

Skip wrote on Feb 15, 2008 7:47 PM:Personally I believe that if you attend public school and do not speak English, then you should be charged a surcharge for all services rendered in another language. My child's public school consists of 40% of the students who are classified as ESL, and for this reason I pay out of my own pocket to send them to private schools. I have absolutely no sympathy for non -English speaking people. They are getting a free ride as it is.

concerned kid wrote on Feb 15, 2008 9:09 PM:some immigrants DO PAY THEIR TAXES. and as for jobs i believe us as Americans take advantage of that cheap labor they produce when they come to the U.S. -and us as Americans are being selfish, why punish the children for what the parents have done, what if you were an immigrant and wanted your child to get a nice education than that provided at your native country?! let us not be selfish, instead let us share the wealth that America has. consider it a donation for those who need a better living. children...we are your future. ... as for stopping illegal immigration, it never will be fully stopped, it's inevitable and an inconvinience for companies that use alien labor ...sorry but that's the truth. and that's how i see it. feel free to argue

concerned kid again wrote on Feb 15, 2008 9:12 PM:oh and as for american children... we all have the tools needed at our school. most of us find school to be a chore rather than an advantage, do not solely blame bad test scores and grades on immigrants, its America's children that are getting lazier by the moment. (happy to know that i am not one of those lazy students...my spelling and grammar suck because i could care less about typing things up on the web...this is no AP english research paper...)

To Karl wrote on Feb 16, 2008 7:21 AM:Your questions is; How many is too many? First of all I think you should make clear to whom you are addressing your question. If you are addressing your to those who are of your like mind than their answer will be the same as your answer; One is too many. However, if you are addressing your question to me and others who believe in our Constitution, those who believe in the equal protection clause in the 14th Amendment than our answer would be those who are here are welcome to stay and those who come are welcome to come. Until our government sets the guidelines and begins to LEGALLY handle this situation it is not within our rights to violate our own Constitution. We can not become vigilantes as some have done and violate the rights of others. I am sure you will not like my answer but I am sure that as good Americans you will respect my right to free speech. I am sure of one thing this will not be decided on this forum.

Bravo Richard Riehl wrote on Feb 16, 2008 7:40 AM:I agree. People have their priorities screwed up. Is illegal immigration really ruining everything? I just don't see it, and I live in Vista, where we have a very heterogeneous population. I'm not afraid of the "scary Latinos." Frankly, they're among the nicer people in Vista in my experience. And their children are here. Whether you think it is fair or not, they are, and the consequences of not educating a whole swath of children will result in more crime and more people in prison. Is that really what we want? If you want to do something about illegal employment, go after employers. Don't go after the poor folks who have come here desperate for whatever crummy job they can get, where they're likely to get treated like human crap and they can't say anything about it. You're talking about their children here, for goodness sakes. And bravo to our teachers. They are unsung heroes in America.

Title should be wrote on Feb 16, 2008 8:27 AM:all American citizens deserve an education in English. They can learn French or any other foreign language as an elective.

Brad wrote on Feb 16, 2008 12:27 PM:concerned kid
Sure illegal aliens pay taxes, but it has been shown over and over again that they take more then they give. They are not self supporting and as with most low wage earners contribute very little to the system. Their illegal presence and their children stretches already limited resources.

"Let us not be selfish"
Obviously you are not all that well informed on immigration. Currently the United States takes in more legal immigrants the the rest of the world combined. That is not an act of selfishness. Of course there are people like yourself, who would never consider any amount enough.

The American Public is tired of supporting people and their children who should not be here. They are tired of school funds being used to teach English to students who have little desire to learn it. Often there is no need from their perspective because English is hardly ever spoken in their homes or communities.
Hispanics are the largest segment (ethnic group) of the illegal alien population in the US. Interestingly they also have the highest school drop out rate. Perhaps that is because many Hispanics place more value on working then education.

Now on your second comment you seem to think because some native born American students, don't value their educational opportunities, somehow that entitles illegal alien children to have them. You miss the point. First the illegals are not supposed to be here. If they were gone, so would be their children. Illegal aliens do not contribute enough to the system to cover the expense to educate their children. American property owners (student parents)thru property and other taxes financially support the schools. Because Americans are paying for the schools, it is their choice or their children's to squander their opportunities. They paid for it and can choose to use it or not. Say you have a car, that you paid for. It sits in your driveway and you are not using it. Does that entitle someone else to break in to the car and take it? I think not.

Carlos wrote on Feb 16, 2008 1:13 PM:To Richard.- I strongly believe in education and human rights, and I applaud Richard because I believe the teaching of English as a second language is a great investment in humanity. All humans deserve an education, and deserve a place in the classroom. I agree with Richard, and support that they're wrong on constitutional, economic and humanitarian grounds.

Reardon wrote on Feb 16, 2008 1:13 PM:California students rank 49th in 3rd grade reading, 8th grade reading, 3rd grade math and 46th in 8th grade math according to the US Department of Education. Obviously, SOMETHING is going wrong in California education, and it probably cannot all be attributed to "English Learners." We might find out what % of our problem is "English Learners" by not permitting them to be mainstreamed until they are fluent in English! We do this at the college level for foreign students -- they are not permitted to enter the country on an education permit UNTIL they are fluent. IF we must educate children, regardless of their legality (a tortured interpretation of the 14th Amendment, written to assimilate the Slaves), then there is no prohibition to requiring English fluency before they pull down the other students in the classroom, because they cannot understand the language!

Karl wrote on Feb 16, 2008 2:36 PM:To "To Karl wrote on Feb 16, 2008 7:21 AM" What the heck are you talking about? Is this your attempt to change the subject? Nowhere in my posts do I mention that I disagree or have a problem with the 14th ammendment. If you are trying to say that the 14th ammendment somehow relates to "illegal immigrants" you might want to read it. I just did.

My whole point is "how many is too many?" Certainly you have to agree that this nation cannot support the entire population of the Earth. Get it? At some point everyone loses including the illegal immigrants already here.

Did I make myself clearer this time?

??? Spreschen sie (sp) Pig Latin? wrote on Feb 17, 2008 4:44 AM:Most of us as adults need to work at learning a second language. Communication is vital and requires language skills. You need to be aware of your surroundings- common sense! This might come in handy when you dial 911! Or maybe we should be PC and translate 911 into multiple languages. What was that universal lanquage that was proposed a few decades ago? Esperanto? I can't remember what it was or why it didn't take off.

Dee wrote on Feb 17, 2008 10:50 AM:As a telephone operator in 1972 we had a cheat sheet that allowed us to communicate with a spanish speaking customer with phonetic phrases. We also had spanish language assistance if needed. These phonetic phrases included police, fire, emergency and enough info to place a call. However, a couple of years later we were no longer allowed to use this material and were instructed to immediately connect to language assistance. Why? because the Mexican coaliton complained that in an emergency help was delayed. Who does not understand Policia or Emergencia? Those two words were enough for us to immediately connect to police, fire dispatchers. The first words out of a spanish speaking customer were "you speakee spani?" I would say "moi pokito" do you speak english? The answer would be pokito. Unless it was an emergency the customer and I would then proceed to get the call he wanted. Usually a call being placed to Mexico. I learned a little spanish and the customer practiced his/her english. We did not have language assistance for any other language at that time. My point is total immersion is the answer as it was many years ago when my parents went to school. Their parents were Italian immigrants and the children did not speak english when they started school but they learned and taught their parents. My grandmother wanted to learn and she learned from her children.They became citizens and were very proud to be Americans

Skip wrote on Feb 17, 2008 4:08 PM:Is it just me or is the censorship regarding Illegal Aliens at high alert level. Now we have to add our e-mail address to each post. What is so frustrating I am finding that in story after story that relate to Illegal Aliens, the anti-Illegal posts are not getting posted. I count several stories this week that contain an element of Illegal Immigration, but the NCT refuses to post. I am not talking Racism here, I am talking Illegal Immigration. It is almost like we must all get along, and why rock the boat. I do not mind the getting along part, but it is the financial costs and the shear numbers of Illegals that are overwhelming this state. Now on this subject I started to say that my wife who is a Special ED Teacher is getting laid off. Meanwhile thousands of Illegal Alien school kids will continue to get their free educations. The programs that my wife worked for were made up of primariliary U.S. Citizens. They are getting cut. Yes I am frustrated.