PhilM wrote on Feb 21, 2008 7:40 AM:"Grudging witnesses" -- I'm not surprised. NCIS and these prosecutors have, on record by both commission and omission, abused their mandates and forever sullied the positions they hold. We expect differences of opinion and even tactics, but to willfully mis-state and consciously mislead defense witnesses, while giving full credence and value to insurgent propaganda violates the sanctity of the UCMJ and the judicial process.

These cases were brought under political mandate to salve the opprobrium of washed-up, self-aggrandizing policy makers in both the Congress and the Administration. Blaming the hammer for hitting your thumb instead of the nail makes you look foolish and totally inept.

DESERT BUG wrote on Feb 21, 2008 1:20 PM:Coerced testimony is not valid evidence and should not be allowed. How can someone be "ordered to testify against the defendants."?

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Feb 21, 2008 2:37 PM:Aren't the vultures still circling? Where are the bloggers so eager to believe the mainstream media, NCIS, and the Prosecution? They might try engaging their brains for once and pay attention to the operative words in this article: 1."Marines balking at ORDERS to testify..." 2."some Marines ORDERED to testify..." 3."The prosecutor, Capt. Nicholas Gannon, told a military judge that several of those marines are angry at the ORDER COMPELLING THEIR APPEARANCE." 4."They are GRUDGING witnesses..." Gee! Ya think? The only reason they'd ever even consider testifying would be to protect themselves from NCIS and the prosecution. 5."One of the men ORDERED to testify..." 6."...repeated attempts to interview Tatum since he was ORDERED TO COOPERATE WITH THE PROSECUTION..." 7."...prompting the judge to question whether Tatum may be charged with failure to follow an ORDER REQUIRING his testimony." Thank goodness for small favors; does anyone care that the video proved absolutely nothing? The video was of corpses. It was not video of the firefight. It was taken by an organization sworn to protect the interests of MiddleEastern cultures. Hello, Red Flag on that one! Congressman Murtha won't perform his civil duty as an American citizen. When it's actually requested for him to speak, he refuses. He had no problem speaking when it was to slander and crucify these Marines. He had no problem influencing the media, the country, or the world, with his unauthorized, unproven, inflammatory statements about the firefight at Haditha. He said there was no firefight. A blind man could see the injustices perpetrated under the shield of law.

TIGMOTHER wrote on Feb 21, 2008 4:32 PM:Addendum: The ranting tirade of AW4 is amusing, to say the least. The military jury is competent to judge the worth of ANY testimony or evidence. They are the "triers of fact." The defense is free to attack and impugn the validity of any testimony. The military jury may DISREGARD any testimony or evidence. To prejudge the worth of any such evidence is to slander and denigrate the jury itself. This testimony is clearly admissable.

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Feb 21, 2008 5:34 PM:To TIGMOTHER: I hadn't realized the significance of my reference to Vultures. Lo and behold; there you are, perched ready to pounce. There you go again; Empty rhetoric. We both know you have no clue what you're talking about. Read your own comments 4cryinoutloud. You say the jury can disregard testimony. Good! Then, the jury can disregard coerced testimony made through plea deals; testimony that means nothing more than one's attempt to save one's own rear. Just why do you think they call it a PLEA? Why do you think they call it a DEAL? You say the jury can disregard evidence. Oh wonderful. Then, the jury could have disregarded the DNA evidence the prosecution did NOT have at Sgt. Hutchins trial. The jury could have disregarded the lack of proof of identity of the deceased at the Sergeant's trial. The jury could have disregarded the testimony of all of the NCIS agents regarding the interrogations. The jury could now disregard the Hammurabi video in the Haditha incident; video that shows corpses and nothing more. The jury can disregard the testimony of any witness, Iraqi or otherwise. Thank you for solving the problem. Had you gifted us with your vast knowledge two years ago, the taxpayers could have been saved a lot of money spent crucifying our own countrymen. Good grief, Mom of whatever a TIG is, you could have saved our Marines from hearings and courts-martial. You could have saved their families the expense and emotional devastation. Why didn't you get off your bloomin' perch and speak up before this? I'm glad you think I'm amusing because I'm in this for the duration. Oh! You might want to study up on the history of the jury and jurors, and on the UCMJ. Your ignorance is showing.

Mom of a Marine wrote on Feb 21, 2008 9:20 PM:Tig...HA HA HA HA HA!!! You are not even amusing anymore. Just can't help laughing. AW4 makes some good points, but I've got a few more. 1)The JUDGE has the RIGHT to JUDGE if any testimony is admissable and/or "relevant" to the case. That is why he is called the "JUDGE!" This is why they have these pre-trial hearings. 2)Juries are not "triers of fact." First of all, there have to be "facts" which the Prosecution/NCIS has been lacking in both this case AND the "Hamdania" case...so they just make stuff up. Juries are "observers" who are supposed to LISTEN...to the "evidence" presented and decide IF there is enough evidence (and here is the important part) "beyond a reasonable doubt" to convict, based SOLEY on that evidence. Not what they heard on tv or the radio or read in a blog or was told by some univolved party. 3) The judge has the right to throw out certain unsubstantiated or irrelevant "evidence" so the Jury doesn't have to be bothered with the bullsh--! That does not SLANDER OR DENIGRATE the jury...it saves them time and energy. And Oh...I guess you forgot to tell us all that you were a "the judge in this case." I guess you must be, since you think it is up to you decide what is and isn't admissable. (still laughing) HA HA HA HA HA HA. YOU are still ignorant in your thinking. You just want to see Marines convicted. That...I'm not laughing at because it is deplorable and disgusting! They would lay down their lives for YOU. Don't forget THAT!

Mom of A Marine wrote on Feb 21, 2008 10:17 PM:To TIG: According to YOUR latest blog...you must also be including as totally admissable (and relevant) the testimony of Rep. John Murtha as to where he got his leaked information that he then chose to go on national television persecuting, prosecuting, trying and convicting these Marines without the right of investigation, counsel or trial of any kind, right?

Mom of A Marine wrote on Feb 21, 2008 11:42 PM:OH TIG...I forgot...one more question. Why is it you put sooooo much faith and swear on the competency of the JURY to judge and try??? Are you aware that the JURY is made up of the same MARINES that you hate, persecute and can't wait to see convicted of some horrible crime? Why don't you try putting that kind of faith and competence in the Marines who are on trial...the ones who went to war and fought for their lives...WHY???

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Feb 22, 2008 12:50 AM:Hey Mom of a marine. Do you know any of the P8?

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Feb 22, 2008 12:51 AM:To Mom of a Marine: Oops! I didn't hit the cap for the M in Marine. Sorry.

Steve wrote on Feb 22, 2008 4:31 AM:AW4cryinoutloud, My you have some strong opinions on these matters. You must have done alot of research on this case as well as the P8 case. Maybe if we could educate TIGMOTHER
on whats really happening instead of being a puppet for the govt. maybe others would follow suit. We know very well the NCIS has withheld and destroyed evidence in order to get convictions on the previous case, what makes this one any different. TIGMOTHER
I challenge you to do a little research before challenging someone who is extremely educated on both of these cases. Trust me you will not prevail, and you might just learn something that is not told to you my the media.

Steve wrote on Feb 22, 2008 4:39 AM:DESERT BUG, It is because the NCIS isnt accountable for thier actions, it happened on several times in the case against Sgt. Larry Hutchins. Resulting in a 15 year conviction, and they were even denied legsl representation to begin with. There are a seperate set of rules for soldiers: guilty first then prove your innocence. Just ask John Murtha. Esecially infantrymen. Who ever heard of a Air Force pilot being investigated for a bomb hitting civilians? Wake up people.

TIGMOTHER wrote on Feb 22, 2008 10:22 AM:The continuous, ignorant ranting of these few bloggers causes Tigmother to chuckle. It is apparent that they know nothing of which they blog. Tigmother highly recommends that they take a moment to read (if they can) the UCMJ and an elementary tome on the law. The Judge in this case has ordered (=subpoenaed) witnesses. This occurs every day in all of our courts. All that is needed is for the witness to testify as to the "the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth." No court can tell the witness what to say, but should he lie, he may be prosecuted for perjury. The entire purpose of the trial is to ascertain the truth of what happened. And yes, in any court, should a witness disobey the subpoena,or refuse to testify, that witness can be held in contempt of court. Do yourself a favor and learn at least the elementary tenets of the law. As for the sarcasm and nasty remarks given by AW4 and M of M, those are disregarded by Tigmother and matter not at all. Again, such caustic, personal attacks only show how shallow and weak the arguments of the attackers are and speak volumes of their lack of character. "Jihadist", "Insurgent": such terms,thrown at those with whom they disagree are indeed laughable.

pam wrote on Feb 22, 2008 10:30 AM:I hope that continued blocks keep going in the prosecutors corner. This is a ridiculous trial. To treat the very people who allow them the freedoms to use and abuse is so very wrong.
My thoughts and prayers are with all of the rest that yet have to go to a trial for doing their job. BEST OF LUCK TO MY MARINES and MY HEROES!

Mom of A Marine wrote on Feb 22, 2008 10:42 AM:Steve, you are right except in the statement that TIGMOTHER could be educated on this. She thinks she knows it all and her comments make it more than obvious that she knows nothing and doesn't want to. Like I said, she just wants to see Marines convicted. To AW4: I KNOW THEM ALL! One of them for the past 24 years.

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Feb 22, 2008 1:18 PM:OK TIGMOTHER. Let's cut to the chase. From now on you, prove your vast knowledge of the UCMJ when you comment to me. I'll prove my knowledge when I comment to you. I can't wait because, for every single thing you're going to tell me protects any of these Marines or any accused' in the military, I'm going to give you an article or an authentic statement (law) under the UCMJ that will void yours. This way we don't have to use personal attacks, for which you hold the title; count them yourself. As for the 'Insurgent' or 'Jihadist' Blogger fiasco, try reading what I said. For months someone used MY blog name to denegrate the troops. I was misrepresented. MY views were misrepresented. This person disagreed with me but was too much of a coward to represent himself, or herself. Seems you're awfully eager to defend this kind of behavior. Why is that?

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Feb 22, 2008 1:33 PM:To Steve: Mom of a Marine is right. There's no chance of educating TIGMOTHER. Her (his?) only focus is to go after whoever supports the troops, which, to my mind, proves much more than ignorance. I was ignorant of what the government was doing to these Marines until I started researching it.
Talk about waking up. More of an eye-opener than I was ready for but I'm not going to bury my head in the sand and hope it will go away because it won't. If you continue blogging (take a valium) you'll come to admire Desert Bug. He, or she, is pretty outspoken and usually has a lot to say. Probably in a hurry this time. I can't wait for TIGMOTHER to impart her (his?) wisdom. AW4.

Steve wrote on Feb 22, 2008 1:43 PM:TIG,TIG,TIG...Just because someone has a difference of opinion doesnt make them ignorant. And it is not ranting, it is someones life at stake, I am concerned that this makes you chuckle. I am very "concerned about the handling of evidence" and command influenced decisions. And before you start an attack on me, I do know what I am talking about, being a USMC vet. I have a feeling that you have never never walked a mile in their shoes, if you did you might have a different perspective. A Marine died that day, Sgt. Wuterich lost a Marine that day, whatever actions he took was an attempt to save the rest of his Marines lives. Do not forget our beheaded Soldiers, dismembered, etc. It is the Marines to clear a threat by deadly force if they deem neccessary. They were fired upon. They had justification and authorization. We wouldnt be having this conversation if they had Air support level those 2 houses. Marines are on the frontlines having to make split second decisions, which apparently if questioned condemn them for life. Second guess a decision and you may lose marines. Regarding perjury, how many different accounts of the pendleton 8 cases were told, how many committed perjury, and what was done about that? Nothing. Why? Because they got a conviction at all cost. One man took the fall for everyone, to bad its the one with the integrity to stand up for hisself and his actions. True Marine NCO

TIGMOTHER wrote on Feb 22, 2008 3:22 PM:Dear me. Such venom. Tut, tut, tut. At least there are one set of FACTS of which Tigmother is NOT "ignorant." and that is: Five (5) of the P8 pled GUILTY to crimes and three (3) were CONVICTED and sentenced by a jury of their peers. One of the plea bargainers (Pennington) pled guilty to conspiracy to commit premeditated murder and kidnapping and of kidnapping. He was sentenced to 21 months and given a DIHONORABLE DISCHARGE. One of those convicted (Hutchins) was found GUILTY of unpremeditated murder, larceny, making a false official statement and conspiracy to commit murder and 3 additional felonies. He was sentenced to 15 years imprisonment, a DISHONORABLE DISCHARGE, reduction to Pvt and a reprimand. These are the kind of dishonorable persons some fanatically defend. They are and were a disgrace to the Corps and their country. If plaudits are due (and they are), they are owed to the brave men and women who have so courageously fought and in some cases died for their country, but have done so with honor and integrity.

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Feb 22, 2008 6:08 PM:To TIGMOTHER: Don't suppose you, in all your professed wisdom, find it strange that after momths of charges of PREmeditated murder were dropped, Pennington was convicted of conspiracy to commit PREmeditated murder and the others, murder; not PREmeditated murder. Don't suppose you find it strange that Pennington's laptop and the Lieutenant's thumbdrive were taken. Of course not. Then, you might have to entertain the idea that there's a lot more to this than meets the eye. Then, how in the world could the mother of a TIG be deprived of showing her hatred for a human? Strange. Our troops are fighting in Iraq against that very mindset. Maybe now I have my answer to the question, What is a TIGMOTHER?

Mom of A Marine wrote on Feb 22, 2008 9:37 PM:TO AW4: Your question at 12:50AM was answered at 10:42AM. Didn't know if you caught it. As for TIGGO...regardless of the facade she puts up, pretending to be so studied on these cases, it is just that...an abvious facade. She was not in Haditha and certainly was not in Hamdania. She knows not the dead man...any more than the prosecution did. They threw blanket charges (everything they could think of on ALL 8 of the P8. They, of course were FORCED to dwindle down many of the charges because they simply were NOT GUILTY of them. Matters not to her. She doesn't understand the workings of NCIS and their wretched tactics to make their lies into facts. She also doesn't pay attention to the FACT that a CA who knew FAR MORE than she...released his Marines because he thought it the right thing to do! Gosh, she doesn't know much at'all. No sense in trying to "educate" her on anything. Hutchin's should be released as well. Tiggo doesn't know how the press works, either. She actually believes [what] they put out there. I can't even laugh, anymore. Hey tig...you studied the UCMJ? Ever been in a military courtroom? Nevermind, I know.

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Feb 23, 2008 12:43 AM:To Mom of a Marine: I caught it. I tried one of the parents. Give me some intials. I'll know someone who'll find out. Sometimes I think TIG is a guy. Sure has a hatred for the troops. Must be terrible to only see the negative; to only seek the negative, to be blinded to the truth by hatred. TIG's really not worth the aggravation. Take care Mom. AW4.

TIGMOTHER wrote on Feb 23, 2008 9:45 AM:Suffice it to repeat that 3 of the P8 were CONVICTED and sentenced by a jury of MARINES. The other 5 pled GUILTY. Sadly, all of the P8 will have the stain of felony convictions on their records for life. They will be confined to low income jobs. No longer can ex-cons hide their background from the scrutiny of background checks. Alas. Furthermore, those who try to bolster their hysterical blather with a listing of their phony credentials are transparent and pathetic. Anonymous bloggers have no claim to speak from authority. Only their blog can be evaluated; nothing more can be shown. On that basis the verbage of this AW4 thing and M of M fall flat! Let's honor those who deserve honor, not those who have been ordered discharged with a DISHONORABLE discharge by their fellow MARINES. Semper fi.

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Feb 23, 2008 2:15 PM:To TIGMOTHER: Thank you so much for the one comment that has made my day. Thanks for the hearty chuckle I had when I read it. First though, let me make something clear. Drool if you must, and apparently do, at the unjust misfortune of honorable Marines. You have crossed the line. Your comments do not reflect an American who is ignorant. You relish too much in the misery of others. You relish too much in the persecution of our Marines. You have crossed the line. and entered the realm of what I consider to be that of the enemy. Therefore, after the comments I make here, yours are dead to me. I will no longer reply to you. Now, here's where the chuckle comes into play. You stated many facts about the future of a felon, I'll grant you that. Actually, it's one of the "few" facts you've presented in your disgusting display of inhumanity to your own countrymen; well, to MY own countrymen. Felony record be damned, background checks be damned; Sgt. Lawrence Hutchins, an honorable Marine screwed over by his own country for the likes of bottom scrapers such as TIGMOTHERs (whatever they are) will not have to worry about either of these. What you have failed to account for in your haste to relish another's suffering is that there are people who believe in him and will assure him of a future. There are other options already open to him about which you know nothing. You have got to be the most ignorant, pathetic blogger to whom I've ever had the displeasure of replying. At least you finally gave me reason to laugh at you. And believe me TIG, I'm not alone. AW4. (These are my opinions and not those of NCTimes or anyone else. Each blogger will speak for themselves).

TIGMOTHER wrote on Feb 23, 2008 4:26 PM:Tigmother chortles and smiles indulgently at the vacuous comments of this AW4 thing. "... unjust misfortune of honorable Marines." Does the AW4 thing refer to those of the P8 who were ordered DISHONORABLY discharged by their fellow Marines? Tigmother and any reasonable person, will accept the studied decision and opinion of a jury of Marines as opposed to the groupie mentality of the anonymous one which refers to itself, pathetically, as AW4.

Mom of A Marine wrote on Feb 23, 2008 10:20 PM:TIGMOTHER...Take notice of YOUR OWN WORDS..."Furthermore, those who try to bolster their hysterical blather with a listing of their phony credentials are transparent and pathetic. Anonymous bloggers have no claim to speak from authority. Only their blog can be evaluated; nothing more can be shown." These words of your own, certainly apply to YOU!!! The only verbage 'falling flat' IS YOURS! You made me laugh, again. Didn't think that would happen. You referring to AW4 as "thing" shows that you are jealous beyond words. As for my credetials or knowledge of these cases, I know what I know...and feel NO NEED to explain it to someone of such a nescient calibur as yourself, TIGMOTHER. FYI...All of the Marines you love to try to degrade are still Marines...NONE are yet discharged at all. I'm sure you would have no clue why that is. HA HA HA HA HA You chortle on like a pig, if you think that will help you. These Marines have many supporters and they will be fine...You...I doubt have that luxury. You must be from Berkeley. Hey, AW4...Don't let this TIGMOTHER...get to you. She/he/whatever is uninformed, ignorant and irrelevant. (TJ)

To TIGMOTHER wrote on Feb 24, 2008 1:12 AM:tigmother, it might do you some good to read the first paragraph of this article! This article has nothing to do with the CP8 you are going on about. However, this case is just a much an injustice to these Marines as was in the other case. All of these Marines voluntarily went to foreign countries, away from their families, and put themselves in GRAVE danger to help protect others from these terrorists. They did their jobs and on the word of insurgents are being prosecuted. It is a travesty in both cases. I always find it so very odd that all you people who want to believe the terrorists version of things are not outraged at THEIR behavior. Are you aware of what they do to women, children, our service people, journalists, anyone who isn't THEM! Talk about PATHETIC. How could anyone be so stupid to believe these stories they hand out. This was just another of their tactics to try to clear all opposition to THEIR WAYS. Their desire is to take over the world. Are you so naive, that you think they would stop in Iraq or Afghanistan?? They have already said and already proven that they won't stop there. The day may come...you'll wish you had been alot nicer to the Marines. God help you then, you fool!

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Feb 24, 2008 2:53 AM:To NCT: Several times, while typing, the page flips back to the home page. Am I the only lucky recipient of this system? Geeze guys! Never happened before you made the changes to your site. Just askin'. AW4.

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Feb 24, 2008 3:12 AM:To Mom of a Marine: I love the word, 'chortle'. Think I'll steal it if ya don't mind. I believe tigmother is a male, not a female. His references to one particular Marine are obviously meant to get to me. I just consider the source. What he doesn't realize is that I draw my strength from that Marine, his family, and his Marine Corps family. As you said, tigmother is irrelevant. AW4.

TIGMOTHER wrote on Feb 24, 2008 11:43 AM:The continuous stream of epithets amuse Tigmother immenseley. Such balderdash! Speculation about
Tigmother's gender by the AW4 thing is as relevant to the discourse as the other hysterical outbursts of AW4 thing and its alter ego, M of M. Now some added attack from an untitled blogger is equally amusing. Apparently THREE juries of combat veteran MARINES were not competent to find guilt in the conviction of three P8'S. The disjointed, rambling and incoherent blather of a pair of courthouse groupies matters not and what they blog is an attack upon those good MARINES who rendered the convictions and those HONORABLE MARINES who have fought and died in combat WITHOUT committing atrocities.

Mom of A Marine wrote on Feb 24, 2008 7:51 PM:Hey T I G M O T H E R...here's a little portion from a story that YOU probably pay NO attention to...

"1:23 p.m. February 24, 2008

BAGHDAD � A suicide bomber blew himself up among Shiite pilgrims taking a break Sunday during their days-long march to a shrine for a major religious gathering. The blast killed at least 40 people and wounded 60, making it one of the deadliest this year.
It was the second attack of the day against pilgrims traveling to the holy city of Karbala, 50 miles south of Baghdad. Hours earlier, extremists attacked another group with guns and grenades in the predominantly Sunni Baghdad neighborhood of Dora, killing three and wounding 36, police said.

Why aren't you screamin' about THIS ... ???????
As far as your last couple of bloggies...funny how you speak about yourself in the third person in your own blogs ... Chortle on, but really, do get some help.

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Feb 24, 2008 8:47 PM:To Mom of a Marine: Chortle! Heh Heh!
Taks care. AW4.

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Feb 24, 2008 8:51 PM:If my short comment to Mom of a Marine went through...Hey Mom, did you ever try to hold the mouse button so the comment wouldn't take? I looked just as I hit it and saw the 'e' missing from the word 'take'. It's just been one of those days. Take care! AW4. Oh! Chortle!!!

Mom of Marine wrote on Feb 24, 2008 9:54 PM:Hey AW4...Don't have mouse...on my laptop. You are not the only recipient of the page refreshing in the middle of typing a comment. Had to start all over once. And I see I've been censored twice by NCTimes. That was actually tigmo that started chortling...but...this is America, we can use whatever words we'd like. Did you find me yet?? Do you have Yahoo Instant Messenger? Let me know...and you take care too.

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Feb 24, 2008 10:54 PM:AW!!! Are you serious? Chortle is TIG's? Ooooh! Yep! So it is. I'll eliminate that one from my vocabulary. Well, I liked ONE word he used. Haven't found you yet. No on Yahoo. If we both ask who all we know it should come back around? Can't decide if I just made a statement or asked a question. Later, AW4.

TIGMOTHER wrote on Feb 25, 2008 2:19 AM:Alas. Tigmother awakes only to find more nonsense, especially from the M of M thing. M of M thing quotes about one of a jillion atrocities committed by a terrorist. How is that extrapolated to Wuterich? Because they commit atrocities, he was justified to do the same? Non sequitur, logical falacy. M of M thing: you and AW thing deserve each other! Your blathering is so absurd it's actually funny to Tigmother. ... Tah, tah. Chuckle, chuckle, chortle, chortle.

Steve wrote on Feb 25, 2008 5:49 AM:Tig mother, I was trying to be nice and cordial in basing facts on both cases. You have attacked not only my fellow Marines, but also a dear lady friend of mine. So I challenge all others to not respond to anything else this traitor has to say. ...Do not ever disrespect my Marines. If you havent heard this case isnt over yet, and I have a strong feeling you will know what the taste of leather is like when you have to dig that shoe out of your mouth. ... So now you can go back to your flag burning, followed by your dinner with Murtha and Jane Fonda.

Mom of A Marine wrote on Feb 25, 2008 10:15 AM:To STEVE: It will do you no good to try to be nice to tigmother. Nor will any actual facts sink in. tigmother cannot understand anything. Atrocities and combat are two different things. The Marines fight in combat....the insurgents commit atrocities. Tigmothers malice is only outwieghed by her/his/ ignorance. You are right, whoever tigmother is...it is obvious she/he is a ..., capable only of spewing garbage and deserving of no further recognition. Right you are, the case isn't over.

Steve Bryant wrote on Feb 25, 2008 2:15 PM:Mom of A Marine: As I said, I refuse to engage any more time or breath with tig mother. It seems to be this is her or his (or he-she's) only form of social contact. What a pity. And that talking as a third party is like fingernails across a chalkboard. She/he is probably not even American. It is the internet, she is probably in a brothel in Bagdad. Probably not making any money either.

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Feb 25, 2008 6:22 PM:To Steve: There are two Things you can't argue with: Insanity and Terrorists. Both are one and the same.