sdraoul wrote on Feb 24, 2008 9:24 PM:How much did it cost Escondido to "round-up" 15 formerly deported illegals? Then, Sam Abed and Ed Gallo can tell us how much the police checkpoints on Escondido streets cost to arrest six illegals.

We can start with the cost per hour of each cop, salary, benefits and pension costs. Then there is the cost of supervising sergeants and higher up police. Then there is the cost of crimes that are committed while cops are stopping cars. Then there’s the cost of extra time necessary for beat cops to respond to calls throughout the city because some cops are at the checkpoints.

Councilmen Abed and Gallo can tell us how much these checkpoints and multi-cops cost the city to apprehend 21 illegals.

to tjraoul wrote on Feb 24, 2008 11:09 PM:That's their job! That's what legal citizens pay taxes for. Clean up crime, at any and all cost. Criminals belong in jail, not out roaming the streets to commit more crimes. Why must you always try to defend what you know is criminal, illegal and wrong. Is your cozy little house in Del Mar Heights surrounded by illegals trying to take over your town?

Nick wrote on Feb 25, 2008 12:18 AM:Wow "SD Raoul", imagine the money that would have been better served to American Taxpayers if those 15 ILLEGALS weren't here in the first place.
I'm glad your finally beginning to see the light. Now, If you could just get the other 20-30 Million to leave, think of the Billions wer could save.
...

chuck wrote on Feb 25, 2008 2:41 AM:>>>How much did it cost Escondido to "round-up" 15 formerly deported illegals?>>> Not a cent. They would have had to pay those police their salary, benefits and pension anyway. So, why not spend it rounding up hoards of law breakers, like they swore to do.

Escondodo wrote on Feb 25, 2008 4:31 AM:to sadraoul - if you want this discussion to be all about tallies, I think we can come come up with some figures for you. You can't even begin to conceive of the costs! But we will get the chance to air it all out during our next election cycle. Give it your best shot.

Yokozuna to sd wrote on Feb 25, 2008 4:43 AM:(Re: post 9:24 PM) What an exciting post to wake up to this morning. So full of rational thought. Up until now I was mistakingly thinking that the checkpoints were for dealing with unlicensed drivers, uninsured motorists, seat belt laws, DUI's , stolen cars, mechanical defects, children car seat issues, and some others. To be informed by your post that the only chargeable costs for these checkpoints is based on the number of illegal criminals caught is food for thought. Sort of like moldy food on a store shelf that no one will buy. There was a hit song by Queen a few years ago named "I'm going slightly mad". Were you the inspiration?

Ron wrote on Feb 25, 2008 5:20 AM:Wow! Wanda Beck slow up!!!! "...the guys that charge interest rates on loans that make Mafia dons kneel in awe."??? As I recall from the "GodFather" they calculated their rates by the week, but I digress...
The term "subprime" refers to the credit status of the borrower (being less than ideal), not the interest rate on the loan itself. The borrower being "the risk factor." Subprime borrowers typically have weak credit histories that include payment deliquencies, and more severe problems such as charge-offs, judgments, and bankruptcies. She obviously does not know how a real Ponzi scheme is run, if she did, she would have compared it to Social Security. Ponzi schemes are taking from one owner to pay for another. All individual homes are used as collateral for the loan, this hardly meets that definition.
These subprime ARMs only represent 6.8% of all mortgages, so this while a problem, is not the industry norm.
But, it "take two to tango", as the old saying goes. And Wanda Beck refuses to see these unqualified borrowers as anything but victims, and the underwriters as predatory and unethical. This assumption that banks are bad, while borrowers are inheirently good is the mind set! This Liberal Institutionalism I've been talking about!
Unethical practices on both sides led to sub-prime mortgage situation for about 6.8 of the entire industry. That's hardly a crisis in the overall scheme of things, surely it's a hardship for those involved, but again.. it's a self-imposed problem.
Banks are in the business to make money, that hardly qualifies them as predatory. When 90% of the rest of American is making their payments in full, and on-time -- it shows that most of these loans were properly structured to meet the borrowers & the bankers needs. The sub-prime fallout is a result of two different reasons. 1. The mortgage market had run it's cycle, new borrowers were drying up, and banks were looking for new home buyers, regardless of their past credit histories. And 2. Pressure from the Apparatchik types in Congress, like Barney Frank, and Maxine Waters who accused the mortgage industry of being discriminatory in lending practises.
We have only "a few" bad actors, including those borrowers who lied about their incomes. If you lie to amke the loan, regardless of which side of the table, you should face the consequences of your actions.

Ron wrote on Feb 25, 2008 5:41 AM:I can't wait until the war in Iraq stops. You know why? Cause then we will all see this mindless mouthing of these talking points is a bunch of pap! It's like doing the press's job!
How many times do I have to repeat this? Iraq is not breaking the back of the American economy. $498 billion dollars, while a lot of money, is NOT THE REASON.
Between 2003 & today the rise of payments to seniors has risen from $600 billion a year, to well over $962 billion a year. Have you seen that kind of rise in war spending? NO! And that's every year, in just these last few years, that would be 962 - 600 = 362 x 5 = 1.8 trillion. If you'd just dig a little, instead of listening to the hype, you might just educate yourself.

Ron wrote on Feb 25, 2008 5:45 AM:And here we go again... with Philip Stone! "Iraq is causing a recession
California..."
Bull! We have a bunch of addicts spending our money like there's no tomorrow in Sacramento. That's why we have a problem in the State.
I'm telling you, it's an absolute failure on the public schools behalf that we have all these illiterate people who do not know how Government works, or simple economics. But, they sure know how to put a condom on a banana!

Karl wrote on Feb 25, 2008 5:54 AM:Earth to Raoul, come back down here. Even though I disagree I can see where one could make a point for illegal immigrants living here in the United States. To rail against picking up illegal immigrant criminals is another thing all together. You are kidding right?

As for your comment "We can start with the cost per hour of each cop, salary, benefits and pension costs. Then there is the cost of supervising sergeants and higher up police. Then there is the cost of crimes that are committed while cops are stopping cars. Then there’s the cost of extra time necessary for beat cops to respond to calls throughout the city because some cops are at the checkpoints.". Did you not read here in the NC Times a couple of weeks ago that the checkpoints are funded by grants? The City of Escondido not only doesn't pay for these checkpoints, their routine patrols are not affected in any way manpower wise.

You either knew about the grants and are lying to promote your position or are not quite the expert that you claim to be.

Why such anger and hostility towards people who disagree with you?

Skip wrote on Feb 25, 2008 6:47 AM:sdraul you are too much. This week in the NCT there is story after story involving Illegal Aliens. I check every crime story they print to see if I can find the suspects Immigration status. I even check every name, weather it is Hispanic or not. I have sort of a game going in that I am trying to find another name besides Hispanic, to be in this country Illegally. I have yet to find it, though but I will keep looking. Just this week in North County, foreign nationals have been killed in driving accidents, foreign nationals have been involved in carjacking and car theft, and as a whole the influx of foreign nationals is driving down the quality of life for everyone. I do not think you can measure the city’s cost compared to the amount of damage Illegal Aliens are doing to our town. Even though is most newspaper stories the legal status of the suspects is not being disclosed, I suspect that the numbers of Illegal alien related crime are way up

Nick wrote on Feb 25, 2008 8:14 AM:Hey "Skip", did you check out my links to ICE's website in yesterday's letters? It's kind of eye opening, and I only posted a few. It took me 3 days to get the Blog Ed's to post it. I had to point out that "THEIR" own blog rules ONLY allow .gov websites and they finally posted it. They still won't post my figures from the Atlanta Violent Crimes Unit, so I will be taking it up with Mr. York today.
If you want some more facts, check the SD & LA P.D' and Sheriff's websites.
Last night, I checked out California's most wanted list, and guess what I found? Out of the 63 fugitives on the list, 6 WERE NOT Hispanic or Mexican Nationals. Go figure!
One of the HUGE problems, is the fact that San Diego and L.A. are Sanctuary Cities, this means if the cops ask someones immigration status BEFORE they are charged with a crime, the cops will be reprimanded by their own department. I will try to post that info again today after my chat with Mr. York about the biasness by his Blog Ed's on the subject of crimes by Illegal Immigrants and the facts that support them.
Cheers, Nick.

Oh, Ron wrote on Feb 25, 2008 8:47 AM:There you go again, trying to tell us that the way to cut expenses is to look for the most expensive thing you spend on and cut that. No, it's not how you budget, it's not how I budget, and it's not how the US should budget. We should look for cutting the spending on things that we need the least. Supporting our elders, IMHO, is far more important and worthwhile than our military efforts, especially in Iraq. The cost of the military is a gargantuan indulgence, used almost entirely to protect the business interests of the nation. I think we need to have some of that, but nothing like what we spend. We don't need those bases all over the world. We don't need to proliferate nuclear weapons. Let's have huge cutbacks in all things military and then see what else we might trim. Your way/Bush's way/Congress' way is to assume that military spending is untouchable, therefore we must cut "entitlements". Many, many Americans, if given the truth about this, would strongly disagree.

OBSERVATION wrote on Feb 25, 2008 8:49 AM:FUTURE WARS: Perhaps, they just might become cost prohibitive.

sdraoul wrote on Feb 25, 2008 9:20 AM:If anyone thinks the checkpoints don't cost Escondido taxpayers money yet don't bring in results worth talking about except to make some people feel good.

That's all these things are. One year's effort and 21 people busted for being illegally in country or as formerly deported aliens. Big deal!

I have no problem with hunting down and arresting and deporting convicted felons of any sort but to have these pages flooded by people feeling good at the cost of tons of money spent for few results, they need to suck on pacifiers.

For those who continue to bat us around the ears with their allegations of how much illegals cost us, baloney. The 90 percent of native-born American criminals in our state prisons cost us billions upon billions of dollars. Each caught American felon costs us hundreds of thousands of dollars according to studies before they are caught. Illegals cost us a pittance in comparison.

Again, for those who believe in the fanatic Muslim creed that if the illegals weren't here no crime would be committed, tell that to the 19 legal Muslim visitors who brought down the World Trade because Saudi Arabia asked us for help in defending themselves.

Let me remind you all, not a single Mexican has ever been charged with terrorism in the USA, and not a single Mexican can be compared to nice American boy named Timothy.

But, all those complaining do have two things in common with the sweet young boy, Timothy, they are native-born Americans and they all hate Mexicans, legal and illegal.

Nick is trying to post a study from Atlanta that is bogus. ... Even the FBI can't do this study without huge resources. The FBI has a budget of $6-billion and it still can't conduct a study of this sort and doesn't even try. It relies on input from individual jurisdictions. If the local jurisdiction doesn't send in the data, it doesn't exist at the national level. ...
I would suggest that Nick concentrate on real problems like the Nancy Pelosi House not voting on a surveillance bill that allows us to listen in to very bad people planning to kill Nick and others who ignore the real problems around us.

If Nick and others want to really do something about illegal aliens, why aren?t they demanding Congressmen Bilbray and Issa push for a legal guest worker program that would eliminate 99 percent of the illegal alien problem. If they won?t support such a program, that is proof they have other agendas than protesting the very people who put food on their tables.

DD Wiz wrote on Feb 25, 2008 9:22 AM: The posts from "d'Anconia" (yesterday, 2/24 - 6:13pm and 9:55pm), "theWolf" (2/22 - 1:17pm and 5:49pm) and "hardtack" (2/22 - 10:08pm; 1/17 - 12:59pm; and 1/12 - 4:47pm), citing the writings of Austrian-born former Nazi supporter Erik von Kuehnelt-Leddihn (who came to the U.S. after World War II and became a writer for extremist Neocon rag "National Review," confirm the reasons why true PATRIOTS who cherish the FREEDOMS and LIBERTY brought by our Founding Fathers take note of the Neocon TYRANTS who are trying to unravel our Constitutional democratic republic (a "republican" form of government in which those who represent us are chosen through "democratic" elections) and turn it into a MONARCHY.
I want to ask a question of all the MODERATE Republicans and conservatives here: Do you or do you not repudiate these posts that support, at least in "principle," the treasonous idea that LIBERTY is inconsistent with EQUALITY (of opportunity, not outcomes) and that, in the "right context" a MONARCHY might better protect our liberties?
This is the idea that THREE, count 'em THREE Neocon extremists have supported in the last few days. It is especially terrifying when you consider that the current Vice President, Dick Cheney, supported by his counsel (concilierge) David Addington, has formulated a doctrine of "UNITARY PRESIDENCY" which is their claim that the Executive Branch takes precedence over what used to be three co-equal branches of government and has inherent immunity since any acts by the Executive are automatically legal. This is the basis on which they justify the clear violation of CIVIL LIBERTIES such as domestic spying, warrantless (domestic) wiretapping, outing CIA agents, rigging (and stealing) of elections, violating express statutes against torture, persecuting those who engage in political dissent and ignoring Congressional subpoenas from that pesky inferior Legislative Branch.
Again I ask, will the Neocons continue their support of a Monarchic "unitary presidency" when they have to play "Hail to the Chief" to a "King" Barack or "Quenn Hillary" instead of "KING GEORGE" (isn't that who we fought a Revolutionary War against)?
To CONSERVATIVES: Do you, or do you not, repudiate this doctrine of "unitary presidency"? Do you, or do you not, repudiate the doctrine that a MONARCHY is "sometimes" better than a democratcy within a republic?

Nick wrote on Feb 25, 2008 9:34 AM:To Oh Ron: Now I don't really agree with you on cutting ALL things Military, but you touched on a subject my wife and I feel very strongly about, the way we treat our elderly. We have both spent many years living abroad and in Europe, and in Europe they treat the elderly COMPLETELY different.
In America, when your parents get older, the majority of the time they are put in Nursing homes and Retirement homes and it sickens us. This part of our culture is disgusting. In Europe, when the parents get to old to take care of themselves, they live with their children and their own children look after them. I mean come on, they spent how many years of their lives raising us, and when it comes time that they need help, Americans pass the buck and stick them in a home, shame, shame, shame. I would never dream of doing that, and when the time comes my family will be right here with me as it should be.
When it comes down to it, all you really have is your family, and they should come first.
Cheers, Nick.

Nick wrote on Feb 25, 2008 9:40 AM:So typical "Raoul", the problem with ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION needs to be addressed at the source, IN MEXICO!
I have asked you at least a dozen times about this, and you EVADE the question every time. Why? Because you know it's the truth and the truth is the one thing you just can't stand.
You always try to excuse the crimes by Illegals by stating that Americans do crimes to, so please don't pcik on the Illegals. You know what the difference is "Raoul", Americans are just that, CITIZENS. ILLEGALS are just that, in this Country Illegally! I know, you just don't comprende. Your little argument about if Americans are doing it, that should excuse everyone else, NOT TRUE!
For someone who claims to be so intelligent, you sure keep me wondering.

Hey sdraoul wrote on Feb 25, 2008 9:51 AM:Stop making excuses for criminals.

Nick wrote on Feb 25, 2008 10:04 AM: Funny, "Raoul" claims the study is bogus, trying to cite the fact that even the FBI doesn't have the resources to do it. Apparently, "Raoul" has inside knowledge of the FBI's inner-workings.
The study he claims to be bogus was conducted by Dr. Deborah Schurman-Kauflin, Ph.D. Violent Crimes Institute, Atlanta, Georgia. It was published in her book The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One Million Sex Crimes Committed by Illegal Immigrants in the United States.
For twenty years, Dr. Schurman-Kauflin has studied serial killers. After starting her own company in 1997, the Doctor has profiled aberrant sex crimes, sadistic murders, serial rapes and murders, stalking, abductions, and other unusual cases for police around the world. In her first book, The New Predator, the Doctor detailed first ever in depth interviews and profiles of female serial killers. These profiles have been successfully used by police around the United States, and several of the Doctor’s cases have been featured on the Discovery Channel and CNN.
One of her studies was used to help get convicted child molesters removed from hotels near Disneyland in California. She consulted to Assemblymember Rudy Bermudez, 56th District.
Dr. Schurman-Kauflin's research was featured in the U.S. Congressional House Committee On Homeland Security report "A Line In The Sand : Confronting the Threat at the Southwest Border".
Dr. Schurman-Kauflin's credentials speak for themselves. Remeber, "Raoul" doensn't like the REAL facts, just those he makes up. I would urge anyone interested to give it a read or Google the good Dr.

esteban wrote on Feb 25, 2008 10:09 AM:If you support illegal immigration, then you are anti American and wish for the downfall of our civilization. YOu need to leave my country too. Thanks.

Ron wrote on Feb 25, 2008 10:10 AM:Ok, then smart guy.. Oh, Ron @8:47 AM.
I have a listing of every single domestic Federal Government program that is 26 pages long, and in fine print. There are some 1716 different and specific programs funded by the Federal Government. Let's start there, and you decide where we need to cut back then.. OK?
Page 1:
Abandoned Infants; Abandoned Mine Land Reclamation; Abstinence Education; Academic Competitive Grants; AIDs Activity; Adjustable Rate Mortgages; Administrative Cost Grants for Indian Schools; Adolescent Family Research Grants; Adolescent Family Life Demostration Projects; Adoption Assistance; Adoption Incentive Payments;
Adoption Opportunities; Adult Education State Grant Program; Adult Education National leadership Program; Adult Education Nursing Grant Program; Advanced Education Nursing Traineeships;
Advanced Placement Program; Advanced Technology Program; Aerospace education Services Program; African Elephant Conservation Fund; Aging Research; Agricultural Management Assistance; Agricultural and Rural Economic Research; Agricultural Research-Basic & Applied Research; Agricultural Statistics Reports; Agriculture on Indian Lands; Aid to Tribal Government;
AIDS Education and Training Centers; Air Force Defense Research Sciences Program; Air Pollution Control Program Support; Air Transportation Centers of Excellence; Airport Improvement Program; Alaska Coastal Marine Institute; Alaska Migratory Bird Co-Management Council; Alaska Native Educational Programs; Alaska Native Serving and Native Hawaiian Serving Institutions Education Grants; Alaska Native/Native Hawaiian Institutions Assisting Communities; Alaska Subsistence Management; Alaskan Indian Allotments and Subsistence Reference-Alaska National Interest Lands Conservation Act; Alcohol Open Container Requirements; Alcohol Research Career Development Awards for Research Training; Alcohol National Reserach Service Awards for Scientists and Clinicians; Alcohol Research Center Grants; Alcohol Research Programs; Alcohol Traffic Safety and Drunk Driving Prevention Incentive Grants; Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms-Training Assistance; All-Volunteer Force Educational Assistance; Allergy, Immunology, and Transportation Reserach; Allied Health Special Projects; Alternate Non-Emergency Service providers or Networks; Alternative or Innovative Treatment Technology Reserach Demostration, Training, and Hazardous Substance Reserach Grants; Alternatives Analysis;
Alternatives to Psychiatric Residential Treatment Facilities for Children; Alzheimer's Disease Demostration Grants to States; Ambassadors for Change Program; American Battlefield Protection; American Council of Young Political Leaders; American Overseas Reserach Centers; Americans with Disabilities Act Technical Assistance Program; AmeriCorps; Anadromous Fish Conservation Act Program; Animal Health and Disease Reserach; Anti-Gang Initiative; Antiterrorism Emergency Reserve; Applalachian Development Highway System.
That's just Page 1. Let's start there.

DD Wiz wrote on Feb 25, 2008 10:26 AM: The post from "Hey sdraoul" (9:51am) demonstrates ignorance of issues and law.
While I often disagree with "sdraoul" on both the substance of issues and the manner in which they are presented, he usually gets his facts right on this issue.
As "sdraoul" has correctly noted many times, being in the country is actually not a criminal act; it is a status offense. There is no criminal penalty, only a correction of the status error such as by deportation.
Those who run red lights, speed, fudge their income taxes, especially the DUI's, and certainly the current administration with its litany of serious criminal violations, are all actual criminal violations, yet I don't see people rising up in righteous anger the way they do against the portion of status violators who happen to have brown skin, failing to recognize the many "illegal aliens" who simply fly or ride a bus into this country on a valid tourist or student visa and simply stay after it expires, but happen to come from Canada, England, Ireland, Australia or Asia and, not being Mexican, don't offend the racists.
As for the comment in the post by "sdraoul" (9:20am): "If anyone thinks the checkpoints don't cost Escondido taxpayers money yet don't bring in results worth talking about except to make some people feel good..." As an Escondido resident, I agree fully.
I disagree with court decisions that have held that blanket traffic stops with searches don't violate the 4th amendment. They do. And they certainly don't make me feel good. I hate it when I am on my way to an appointment, have allowed plenty of time, and then there is a huge traffic backlog along a major artery because police don't have enough other business to occupy their attention, which is the real reason there is a crime problem in Escondido.
Let the police do police work, and let the state department deal with foreign policy.
And if we want to address the problem of desperate people who work hard trying to come to this country, we need to focus the attention on the corporate masters who seek to exploit them, both in this country seeking cheap labor, and in their home country by imposing trade sanctions on all corporations who fail to ensure adequate wages, consumer assurances and environmental safety. And that goes for ALL countries, not just singling out those in Latin America. (I'm talking seriously about China and India here.) The concept of "bubble up" wealth creation instead of failed "trickle down" is not just a domestic issue; it is the core of economic reform here and to our immigration problem as well.
The real solution, not only for immigration, but also for outsourcing of jobs to cheap labor markets, consumer safety of imported products, and all the environmental issues related to production of foreign goods goes toward addressing the issue of corporate exploitation of cheap labor, whether in this country by oppressing "illegal" workers or by outsourcing to foreign markets. The solutions are quite simple, really, and would be amenable to about 99% of the American population, but it is that last 1%, who wields disproportionate wealth and power, that would lose trillions on such simple reforms, and will stop at nothing to make sure no such reforms are ever enacted.

Reardon wrote on Feb 25, 2008 10:28 AM:Skip: I hope you catalogued the four children in a school bus killed last week in Cottonwood, Minnesota... by an unlicensed illegal alien driver, without insurance. Apparently she works for a nearby Hormel plant, and she gave the police a false name ? she gave the name of a Puerto Rico woman, Alianiss Nunez Morales. Perhaps this week we will learn more, and yes, SDRAOUL, legal American citizens also run stop signs and kill children in school buses ? but this one would not have happened had Ms. Morales (or whoever she is) were not here.

Karl wrote on Feb 25, 2008 10:33 AM:To "sdraoul wrote on Feb 25, 2008 9:20 AM" Again I repeat that the checkpoints are funded by a grant. Do you not believe that fact? Oh that's right, facts don't mean a thing to you unless they support your arguement. We are talking about illegal immigration here, not Timothy, Muslims or legal citizens. Those are a subject for another all together different arguement. In order for you to support your arguements you resort to changing the subject.

These checkpoints not only catch illegal immigrants they also nab drunk drivers and unlicensed/uninsured drivers. When are you going to rally for the unlicensed/uninsured drivers as they are affected the same as illegal immigrants?

By the way you never answered my question from another post. You said in the same post that 1; illegal immigrants do not affect wages of American citizens and 2; in the same post you said that illegal immigrants helped out the drywall business's "production" by lowering the wages in that trade from $20/hr to $10/hr. Which one is it?

Karl wrote on Feb 25, 2008 10:41 AM:Nice list Ron. It looks rather bawdy when spread out in print.

DD Wiz wrote on Feb 25, 2008 10:42 AM: The post from "Ron" (10:10am) shows the real conservative approach to "fiscal responsibility" and why it will never work; why only liberals will (and have) actually balanced budgets.
The conservative Republican approach is to just go after services with a meat cleaver. No thought. No cost-benefit analysis, just cut everything except corporate welfare and no bid contracts for military profiteers who make their livings off the death and mayhem of brave young American men and women.
The post from "Oh, Ron" (8:47am) noted the foolishness of trying to cut programs that actually SAVE money because they are PROACTIVE and prevent social problems (have conservatives ever heard of "stitch in time saves nine?") instead of the conservative approach which is REACTIVE and tries to clean up disaster and devastation when it is hugely expensive, but which could have been prevented when they were still small.
"Ron" just lists a litany of services, many of which are quite small.
Stop it! Instead, take a look at individual programs. What are the cost of the programs? (Many are quite small.) What is the benefit, not only in reducing human suffering, but in just hard cold dollars and sense (the only thing conservatives relate to, if not understand). How much less expensive is it to spend money on "Abandoned Infants" or "Alcohol" programs rather than on letting abandoned and neglected children grow up into gang members and criminals or letting untreated alcoholocis commit domestic abuse, murder and all kinds of crimes way beyond just DUI.
Take all the social programs "Ron" has listed (just page 1, for starters). Forget about the "number" of programs.
What is the cost, not only of each, and it is a fraction of what is spent on corporate welfare and no-bid contractors for military profiteers who make their livings off the death and mayhem of brave young American men and women -- which do not benefit Americans AT ALL -- in fact, which divert our resources from the real war on the actual terrorists who invaded us.
This, folks, is why conservatives create deficits and fiscal mayhem while humans suffer, and why liberals not only solve problems, but do more while paying less and end up with BALANCED BUDGETS.

jenif wrote on Feb 25, 2008 10:52 AM:The post from "DD Wiz" (10:26am) demonstrates an apparent lack of attention to the issue. Hurting people and stealing makes one a criminal. Illegal immigrants do it as do citizens. The poster asked sdraoul to stop making excuses for them.

Oh, Ron wrote on Feb 25, 2008 10:53 AM:This is a list you give us of names of programs. Neither you nor I have much of an idea about what the money goes for. I do recall that Bush names things like a lumber giveaway to donors the healthy forest act, or some such, so names can be 180 degrees misleading. Regardless, it's not my job to go through a 26 page list of such things. My feeling is that we could begin with massive cutbacks in all things related to the military. This would entail an enormous change in our philosophy of who we are as a nation. The current view of us came into being as a result of WWII. It's not the founders' idea at all. OK, communism seemed like a threat then, erroneously as it turned out. There is no threat now, at least not in that sense. No nation on earth is a legitimate military threat to us. That's the world we need to trim down to live in. We don't need to spend as much as about all the other nations in the world on defense. When that's cut way back, we can start looking at your list. (I don't expect you to agree, Ron, ..., but maybe other here will.)

RobertM wrote on Feb 25, 2008 11:25 AM:Hey SDRaoul, victims of burglaries are generally compensated by their insurance companies so it's no big deal. Why do the police waste so much time apprehending a few burglars? Tagging doesn't really harm anyone. Why waste money arresting taggers? Meth addicts generally harm only themselves. Why not put police resources to better use? There are so few actual murders in the area it hardly seems like a worthwhile project to try to catch the few murderers there are. On the other hand, there are lots of jay walkers. The sheer numbers of them should make them a priority for the police. Or maybe laws are laws and all of them should be enforced.

DD Wiz wrote on Feb 25, 2008 11:25 AM: The post from "jenif" (10:52am) shows that she is the one who "demonstrates an apparent lack of attention to the issue." If "Hurting people and stealing" is what "makes one a criminal" and it applies to both "Illegal immigrants" as well as legal residents and "citizens" then why not focus on the "hurting people and stealing" and why does a status violation enter into the picture? I think "sdraoul" was asking the poster to stop making excuses for bringing into the discussion a wholly irrelevant dimension, based solely on racism (especially since the same people never bring up "hurting people or stealing" by "illegal alients" from Canada, England, Ireland or Asia), which diverts attention away from REAL SOLUTIONS such as what I described in my post of 10:26am, and which "jenif" and her limited attention span failed to address.

Jerry wrote on Feb 25, 2008 11:37 AM:To DD Wiz and SDRaoul, You're right, these checkpoints result in only a few illegals being deported. A more efficient method would be aggressive sweeps of businesses, schools and emergency rooms. Then instead of dropping them off over the border, fly them to Mexico City or the capitol of whatever their home country. It would take much longer to get back here and put the problem directly on the doorstep of the respective governments. You should suggest this at the next city council meeting.

Asteroid wrote on Feb 25, 2008 11:53 AM:I could count the times I’ve bothered to read any of DD Whiz’s essays on one hand. I don’t care for his dry pedantic and didactic arrogant style. If I wanted to be preached to or lectured I’d go to church or enroll in a class. But after reading jenif’s post at 10:52, I was compelled to read (part of it) his 10:26 am post. It’s a good example of how useless being “well read” can be, when totally devoid of common sense. I stopped reading at the point he began ranting about “brown people from Mexico” as opposed to people from Canada, England, Ireland, Australia or Asia (not being brown), and then of course the racist crap. Despite all his education and skill with the pen; when it comes to in your face every day life experience he declines to the intellectual level of a Chris.

OBAMACAN wrote on Feb 25, 2008 12:02 PM:I can't wait to see Raoul tooling around Del Mar Heights with that Obama sticker on the back of his car after McCain flip flops on immigration like he did on torture and tax cuts.

DD Wiz wrote on Feb 25, 2008 12:08 PM: The post from "Jerry" (11:37pm) again misses the point. Some people are so stubbornly myopic they can't see how to solve the problem.
NO JERRY, the solution is neither wasting law enforcement staffing at checkpoints or massive raids.
Those are all typical myopic, short-sighted REACTIVE conservative policies.
The only REAL solutions are to be LIBERAL and PROACTIVE: address the cause of the problem, not just the symptoms, which has never worked in the past and will never work in the future (the definition of insanity is....)
SOLUTION: As I stated at 10:26am, if we want to address the problem of desperate people who work hard trying to come to this country, we need to focus the attention on the corporate masters who seek to exploit them, both in this country seeking cheap labor, and in their home country by IMPOSING TRADE SANCTIONS on all corporations who fail to ensure adequate WAGES, CONSUMER ASSURANCES and ENVIRONMENTAL SAFETY.
And that goes for ALL countries, not just singling out those in Latin America. (I'm talking seriously about China and India here.) The concept of "bubble up" wealth creation instead of failed "trickle down" is not just a domestic issue; it is the core of economic reform here and to our immigration problem as well.
The real solution (not only for immigration, but also for outsourcing of jobs to cheap labor markets, consumer safety of imported products, and all the environmental issues related to production of foreign goods) MUST ADDRESS: the issue of corporate exploitation of cheap labor, whether in this country by oppressing "illegal" workers or by outsourcing to foreign markets.
The solutions are quite simple, really, and would be amenable to about 99% of the American population, but it is that last 1%, who wields disproportionate wealth and power, that would lose trillions on such simple reforms, and will stop at nothing to make sure no such reforms are ever enacted.

Reardon wrote on Feb 25, 2008 12:10 PM:Concentrating on Hispanic illegal aliens is not racism -- it is reality. There are probably illegal aliens from some island on the Russian side of the Aleutian Islands, but, at least locally (and all politics is local) the vast majority of illegal aliens are from Mexico. That is reality. In Boston, I suspect there are a lot of Irish illegal aliens, but I don't live in Boston. In Seattle there are probably some Canadian illegal aliens, but I don't live in Seattle. In Florida, there are probably a lot of Haitian illegal aliens, but I don't live in Florida. In the entire US the estimates I have seen say that more than 70% of illegal aliens are Hispanic. That is reality, not racism. Concentration of the biggest offenders is reality, not racism.

hardtack wrote on Feb 25, 2008 12:22 PM:Ron makes some astute observations @ 5:20 AM. “Greed” is evenly distributed among mankind. Borrowers are often driven by the same greed that drives lenders and politicians who lust for favor and power among their constituents by manipulating markets.

Ron wrote on Feb 25, 2008 12:56 PM:Page 2.
Appalachina Local Development District Assistance; Appalachian Regional Development;
Appalachian Research, Technical Assistance, and Demonstration Projects;
Applied Meteorlogical Research;
Applied Toxicological Research & Testing; Aquatic Plant Control; Architectural and Transportation Barriers Compliance Board; Archtectural Barriers Act Enforcement; Arthritis, Musculoskeletal and Skin Diseases Research; Arts and Artifacts Indemnity; Arts Exchanges on International Issues; Arts in Education; Asian Elephant Conservatiion Fund; Assessment and Watershed Protection Program Grants; Assests for Independence Demonstration Program; Assistance for Indian Children with Severe Disabilities; Assistance for Torture Victims; Assistance Programs for Chronic Disease Prevention and Control; Assistance to Firefighters Grant; Assistance to High Energy Cost-Rural Communities; Assistance to State Water Resources Research Institutes; Assistance to Tribally Controlled Community Colleges and Universities; Assisted Living Conversion for Eligible Multifamily Housing Projects; Assistive Technology; Assistive Technology-State Grants for Protection and Advocacy; Atlantic Coastal Fisheries Cooperative Management Act; Attorney Fees-Indian Rights; Automated Flood Warning Systems; Automobiles and Adaptive Equipment for Certain Disabled Veterans and Memebers of Armed Forces; Avian Influenza Indemnity Program; Aviation Education; Aviation Research Grants;
That's just the "A"'s....
Now the "B"'s...
Bank Enterprise Award Program; Barry M. Goldwater Scholarship Program; Basic and Applied Scientific Research; Basic Center Grant; Basic, Applied, and Advanced Research in Science and Engineering; Basic/Core Area Health Education Centers; Beach Erosion Control Projects; Beach Monitoring and Notification Program Implementation Grants; Benjamin Gilman International Scholarship; Bilingual/Bicultural Service Demonstration Grants; Bill Emerson Humanitarian Trust; Biobased Transportation Research; Biodiesel; Bioenergy Program; Biological Sciences; Biological Response to Environmental health Hazards; Biomedical Research and Research Training; Biometry and Risk Estimation-Health Risks from Environmental Exposures; Biotechnology Risk Assessment Research; Bioterrorism Training and Curriculum Development Program; Blind Rehabilitation Centers; Block Grants for Community Mental health Services; Block Grants for Prevention and Treatment of Substance Abuse; Blood Diseases and Resources Research; Boating Safety; Boating Safety Financial Assistance; Boll Weevil Eradication Loan Program; Bond Guarantees for Surety Companies; Books for Blind and Physically Handicapped; Border Enforcement Grants; Bridge Alteration; Brownfield Job Training Cooperative Agreements.
More "B"'s to come....
End of Page 2.

Concerned-1 wrote on Feb 25, 2008 1:05 PM:Would somebody check the temp in hell? I think I just agreed with a point made by DD Wiz. It was about enforcing immigration laws with employers. Yes, and you can enforcement against white, brown, yellow and black people alike. I would hope when this recession is over and things start to pick up again that construction companies and landscaping companies make sure all thier labor is documented. And yes, illegal immigration has really hurt the construction industry and American workers. If you hire illegals for any reason, shame on you!

Concerned-1 wrote on Feb 25, 2008 1:12 PM:Merry Williams has an interesting take: Don't publicize killers' names. Then names like Timothy McVeigh and Charles Manson wouldn't become household names. Maybe it would curtail copycat or spinoff crimes. I'm sure the Columbine shootings inspired a whole gaggle of shootings. While it is easy to blame the media, the real problem is with people. The average Joe today is the result of a diluted gene pool and has neither the intellect nor moral character to see the merit in Williams' modest proposal.

Ron wrote on Feb 25, 2008 1:26 PM:Page 3.
Brownsfield Assesment and Cleanup Cooperative Agreements; Brownsfield Training Research, and Technical Assitance Grants and Cooperative Agreements; Buffer Zone Protection Plan; Bulletproof Vest partnership Program; Buerau of Indian Affairs Facilities-Operations and Maintenance; Burial Expenses Allowance for Veterans; Business and Industry loans; Business and International Education Projects; Byrd Honors Scholarships.
To the "C"'s....
Calibration Program; Cancer Biology Research; Cancer Cause and Prevention Research; Cancer Center Support Grants; Cancer Construction; Cancer Control; Cancer Detection and Diagnosis Research; Cancer Research Manpower; Cancer Treatment Research; Capacity Building amoung American Indian Tribes; Capacity Building for Traditionally Underserved Populations; Capacity Building Grants and Cooperative Agreements for Compliance Assurance and Enforcement Activities in Indian Country and Other Tribal Areas; Captial and Training Assistance Program for Over-the-Road Bus Accessibility; Capital Assistance program for Eldery Persons and Persons with Disabilities; Capital Case Litigation; Captial Construction Fund; Capitalization Grants for Clean Water State Revolving Funds; Capitalization Grants for Drinking Water State Revolving Fund; Census Bureau Data Products; Census Customer Services; Census Geography; Census Intergovernmental Services; Census Special Tabulations and Services; Center for Sponsored Coastal Ocean Research-Coastal Ocean Program; Centers for Diseases Control and Prevention-investigations and Technical Assistance; Centers for Genomics and Public Health; Centers for Homeland Security; Centers for Independent Living; Centers for International Business Education; Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services Research, Demonstrations, and Evaluations; Centers for Research and Demonstration for Health Promotion and Disease Prevention; Centers of Excellence; Central Valley Project Improvement Anadromous Fish Restoration Program; Certified Development Company Loans; Chafee Foster Care Independence Program; Chafee Education and Training Vouchers Program; Challenge Cost Share; Charter Schools; Chemical Emergency Preparedness and Prevention Technical Assistance Grants Program; Chemcial Stockpile Emergency Preparedness Program; Chesapeake Bay Program; Chesapeake Bay Studies; Child Abuse and Neglect Discretionary Activities; Child Abuse and Neglect Grants; Child and Adult Care Food Program; Child Care Access Means Parents in School; Child Care and Developement Block Grant; Child Care Mandatory and matching Funds of the Child Care and Development Fund; Child Health and Human Development Extramural Research; Child Nutrition Discretionary Grants Limited Availability; Child Safety and Child Booster Seats Incentive Grants; Child Support Enforcement; Child Support Enforcement Demnstration and Special Projects; Child Support Enforcement Research; Child Welfare Serives Training Grants; Child Welfare Services-State Grants.
End of Page 3.
Find any yet?

DD Wiz wrote on Feb 25, 2008 1:26 PM: The post from "Reardon" (12:10pm) states: "the estimates I have seen say that more than 70% of illegal aliens are Hispanic."
Talk is cheap. You make the claim, you back it up.
Source, please. Pretty please.
And in any case, why would that make a difference?
And also provide your solution: REACTIVE, like checkpoints and raids, or PROACTIVE such as mine at 12:08pm?

DD Wiz wrote on Feb 25, 2008 1:31 PM: The post from "Ron" (12:56pm) reiterates some of the same irrelevant noise listing NAMES of programs, without citing costs or cost-benefit analysis.
Hey, "Ron," we are still awaiting the cost-benefit analysis from your 10:10am post, especially compared with the cost-benefit analysis of the costs of an illegal war that diverts resources from the real war against terrorism to benefit profiteering beneficiaries of CORPORATE WELFARE and NO BID CONTRACTS making money off the death and suffering of our brave men and women put needlessly in harm's way.
And while you're at it, do the cost-benefit analysis for the INTEREST on the Reagan-Bush-Bush DEFICITS.
Oh, and, "Ron," how you comin' with the documentation for those claims about the extent of specific errors in Gore's book and movie?
And those government tax/income/asset statistics that should be available on ".GOV" websites?
And we're still waiting answer the questions in the posts from "SUPERHIGHWAY" (2/24 - 11:18am and 12:45pm) -- does Eisenhower get any credit for "creating" the interstate highway system?
WE'RE STILL WAITING. AND WAITING.

hardtack wrote on Feb 25, 2008 1:46 PM:I have no idea how DDwiz lumps me into his 9:22 AM, rambling, right-brained rant. Neither word, “Kuehnelt-Leddihn” nor “monarchy,” appear anyplace in either of the posts that DDwiz attributes to me. I do know from past experience, however, that DD doesn’t read too clearly (whether by design or incompetence) and has the annoying habit of putting words into other peoples’ mouths.

And lower yet! wrote on Feb 25, 2008 1:50 PM:Is that a flap I hear over a photo of Obama in African garb that was released by "someone in the Clinton camp"? Oh, dear, it's getting uglier by the day. For many of us who are Democrats, each of these little episodes drives us more firmly into Obama's camp. When Obama wins the nomination, and McCain starts the same stuff, there will be many independents and moderate Republicans (who are not McCain's biggest fan club anyway) who will similarly be driven away by the tactics. Until the American people declare with letters and their votes that this kind of campaigning is intolerable, the candidates will keep doing it. We are the ones who have told them that they work. It's on us.

sdraoul wrote on Feb 25, 2008 1:53 PM:Nick proves my point. The study he's trying to post was by one woman, not a research staff. It is impossible for one person to research 4000 local jurisdictions, or more, without a staff in one year. Her study is bogus. There is no such accumulation of local jurisdictions that show a million sex crimes by illegals from Mexico as she claims.

As far as my knowledge of the FBI, everything I know about the FBI comes from much interaction with them over the years and with my personal knowledge acquired from many agents I have known or worked with over the years.

As for RobertM who claims that burglaries are paid for by insurance, so what does that do to premiums paid by homeowners? Oh, premiums are higher or policies are canceled. Apparently RobertM doesn't know how insurance companies figure probabilities and premiums.

Then there is Jerry who advocates "aggressive sweeps" to search for illegals. Two problems: The Constitution would have to be trashed and the law violated to use "aggressive sweeps." Sweeps are against the law. A federal agency needs a warrant based on SPECIFIC information to convince a judge to sign a warrant.

Nick relies on bogus studies by a fraudulent con woman in Atlanta, RobertM doesn't understand that all insurance customers pay premiums that they don't set, the company sets them to make a profit not to dish out free money. Jerry wants to turn the USA into Nazi Germany. He wants the Escondido police to sweep through neighborhoods looking for illegals, or stop all cars on a street with the excuse that they are looking for problem drivers to hide the fact that they are only hassling Mexicans because of their appearance.

Then Nick states that I said Illegals don’t lower American wages while they threw overprice union shop workers out of work because they overpriced themselves and the Mexicans doubled production.

Well, if production doubles with the same payroll, does that lower American wages or just those of the overpriced unionists who don’t deserve the money they were paid. The wages of those affected were lowered but they weren’t taken out and shot, they were replaced by more productive workers and they were absorbed by the economy as we have minimal unemployment in Southern California. Thus, the GDP actually increased and GDP growth affects all Americans and helps keep wages up.

As important real wages and increased productivity keeps prices from bursting through the roof. As consumers, then, they – we -- all benefit and those benefits total billions and billions of dollars. Sacrificing $20 an hour union workers for $10 an hour Mexicans is a good deal for the number of workers increases and so does their consumer spending and taxes they pay. We now have three workers working where we only had one before. The Economy wins that game and our economy and its more or less free market implementation is more important than a handful of union members who keep corrupt officers in power who corrupt our political system.


And one wonders why I take these people on. They come to the fight armed with a knife and I come with an M-16.

Karl wrote on Feb 25, 2008 1:54 PM:To "Concerned-1 wrote on Feb 25, 2008 1:05 PM" I also agreed with Double D's on this one. At least the point about going after the employers. It must be very cold down there today.

Chris to Ron wrote on Feb 25, 2008 1:57 PM:As usual your post for 5:41 just shows your love for social darwinism. The point is that maybe the war alone is not the cause of fiscal problems but stopping the war would be a start to fiscal responsability. Of course you would just throw the senior citizens out in the street after all if a person no longer can work in order to keep the fat cats in clover we should just get rid of them. The fact is that we are spending about 6oo billion per year on the military and another 200 billion per year on the war. So if we would stop the war and cut the military in half we could save 5-600 billion a year. That would be enough to put an end to the budet deficits that we run a year and have another 200 to 300 billion we could use to pay off the deficit. But you want to throw the old people out in the streets, the ones who paid taxes for years for our damn military and wars. I hate all you concervatives and your social darwinism and hate for everybody.

Oh, Ron wrote on Feb 25, 2008 1:57 PM:You can skim through the list. Where are the funds for our bases in Germany? Japan? The whatever it is, 70+?, countries where we have bases? The permanent bases in Iraq? Guam? You get the idea, Ron. Just skim through your list and as you see these, that's where I'd start. Then skim for anything that contributes to the proliferation of nuclear weapons and X those out too. (You are SO mature!)

But raoul wrote on Feb 25, 2008 2:22 PM:The bottom line that you preach is that because the number of criminals among the "illegals" is small, and because the number of their victims is small, that this immigration is ducky. You want to debate the exact numbers, but you repeatedly refuse to take on the one, true and easy, counterattack: that one is too many. You have no weapon against this very simple charge, so you go off on tangents. You may win the battle of the irrelevant tangents, but no one cares. The real battle is elsewhere, and you lose hands down. LOL

Reardon wrote on Feb 25, 2008 2:26 PM:DD: This quote from Breitbart ... should suffice because it references the source -- the Pew Hispanic Center, but summarizes it sufficiently: "Tuesday's report by the Pew Hispanic Center said Mexicans make up 56 percent of illegal immigrants. An additional 22 percent come from other Latin American countries, mainly in Central America. About 13 percent are from Asia, and Europe and Canada combine for 6 percent." Since Pew is not a government source, I can't give the link, but it is a reliable research source, as is Breitbart.

JERRY wrote on Feb 25, 2008 2:29 PM:Chris, you hate conservatives and their hate for everyone? Does that mean you believe hate will solve everything?

Reardon wrote on Feb 25, 2008 2:34 PM:DD: You asked for solutions? I have posted mine previously, but once again: 1) Secure the Border, 2) Deport ALL illegal alien criminals, 3) Double (or even TRIPLE) LEGAL immigration from all Latin countries, 4) institute a Worker program with all current illegal aliens eligible for a 10-year Green Card (renewable in 5 year increments on good behavior) -- IF they agree to have their non-American citizen family-members move back immediately to their home country. (Violators to lose their Green Card status), 5) Institute a CONTROLLED Guest Worker program based on 2 year, unaccompanied tours, renewable for 3 times on good behavior). This proposal would blunt claims of racism, decrease immeasurably the social cost drain on the taxpayer, and provide a large source for low-cost labor while keeping the remittances to Latin countries generally untouched.

sdraoul wrote on Feb 25, 2008 2:35 PM:For those who think illegals’ crime is overwhelming and violent and needs to be swept up by local yokel cops, here are the words from an Arizona police chief who used to be a LA police commander:

"Unquestionably we have an illegal immigration problem, and unquestionably it needs to be fixed," (Chief) Gascon said. "The problem is when you try to apply the wrong fix. When you start using your resources and applying them based on faulty assumptions or misinformation, then you're going to be wasting resources and you're also going to lead people to believe that you're fixing something when the reality is that you're not fixing anything."

Considering that it took dozens of Escondido cops and hundreds, if not thousands of extremely expensive man-hours, to “round-up” 21 illegals, one wonders if the city might do better by focusing its resources elsewhere.

Ron to Chris wrote on Feb 25, 2008 2:37 PM:>>>Of course you would just throw the senior citizens out in the street after all if a person no longer can work in order to keep the fat cats in clover we should just get rid of them.>>>
Just one question...
Where are those people's children? And how come they are not caring for their parents? (sorry, that was two...)