Roberto1 wrote on Mar 3, 2008 6:06 AM:This confirms what the naysayers have been saying all along...the budget is way over inflated and tax dollars were being spent on items other than educating students....-

MrsP wrote on Mar 3, 2008 6:34 AM:I'm sure there was no outcry from parents about the closure since there were probably no parents of JHE students attending the meeting -- on a Sunday.-

JHE Teacher wrote on Mar 3, 2008 7:52 AM:Too bad there wasn't an outcry from teachers or parents, but unforutnately the meeting was on a Sunday. I would have liked to have been there, but I also have obligations for my family.

It is a shame to close the school and make the students move. We teachers have poured our hearts and souls into the school. Too bad the district is to blind to see that.

TickTock wrote on Mar 3, 2008 7:55 AM:Why Jean Hayman school? They should close Machado Elementary. This school is the lowest scoring school in LEUSD. In the 500's (every year)! Jean Hayman is in the 700's! How could this be? Another bad decision made by the LEUSD.

Be Real wrote on Mar 3, 2008 8:02 AM:The budget cuts proposed for Lake Elsinore schools are real, and even though class size was protected, the cuts hurt kids. It will be impossible to keep doing more with less. The public schools have already been cut to the bone, and these cuts are starting to cause real harm. We all need to tell Sacramento that our schools should not be the sacrifice for an ailing economy. Public schools are the solution to an ailing economy, because without an education our kids will not be prepared to compete for jobs in the future. The quality of our workforce drives the economy. Funding for public schools needs to be protected.-

so glad to be retired! wrote on Mar 3, 2008 8:35 AM:Um, whatever happended to ALL THAT LOTTERY MONEY that was to help the schools in California as promised back in the mid-80's. Oh yeah...another broken promise. The article also fails to mention that 11 "cuts" at the district level are not cuts - these are people that are retiring and the position will not be filled. Now we know why Elsinore can't compete with the Murrieta and Temecula school districts in ANYTHING. Those at the top see it and know it...they just don't care. Does anyone realize that Gov. Schwarzenegger has lost more money than Gray Davis ever lost. Has anyone thought to recall Arnie? When you don't support our school systems, you might as well be saying to these kids and their parents "programs, teachers, extra curricular, supplies are not important unless of course, you are here illegally - then we can get you anything you want or need..." California definitely does not have its priorities in order!

MrsP wrote on Mar 3, 2008 8:38 AM:Has LEUSD considered the cost of security to protect against vandalism of a closed school? What would be the cost of reducing Administrative staff? We absolutely need to keep education of our children as a priority so eliminating teaching positions is absolutely not an answer. Did anyone predict this astronomical reduction in the education budget for the state? Who isn't looking out for our future??

Guess What? wrote on Mar 3, 2008 9:19 AM:I don't want to throw any more money at a broken system! Parents and taxpayers need to take a closer look at how well we're NOT preparing our kids for life after (K-12) school. Go ask the business people hiring our graduates and our institutions of higher learning, if you really want to know. Ask how many students REQUIRE remediation in Math &/or English (do-over courses that do not count towards a degree). Ask how many REQUIRE training for entry level jobs because they have not been taught basic skills.
Why are our school boards & Administrators quoting the "Getting Down to Facts" study regarding the money our education system needs but forgetting to mention that study also indicates that without major reform, more money won't matter?
Finally, lower enrollment means we need LESS teachers.

Transparencybreedsauthenticity wrote on Mar 3, 2008 10:07 AM:Here's a clue-in folks, the reason Jean Hayman is on the block instead of Machado is simply this: The resulting redistribution of students from the higher scoring Hayman to the lower scoring Machado will likely raise the test scores of the ailing Machado. Resulting in congratulations to the district and its [people] hired for this purpose. A side benefit would be to dilute the push for Reagen to go charter, with an influx of parents not invested in the magnet program there. Looking for budget cuts? Here's a clue Frank, cut the 'fluff' between teachers and the Governor! We don't need all those "administrators"!That's where the layoffs need to happen! Tell Mr. Shore to take a hike, what's he pulling down? Put that money to the teachers and get off their backs! Let THEM find the ways to educate the children and raise the scores. They know how to do it if you give them the freedom to do what they love. That is their JOB! Show us the money! Where is it really going! Let's see those checks! I dare you!

suzanne wrote on Mar 3, 2008 10:18 AM:what I want to know is, where is all the MONEY going that was supposed to be coming from the STATE LOTTERY? If I remember correctly the whole selling point on the darn lottery to get it inacted (via our voting it in) was for the majority of the money to go directly to the schools in California! so where is the money going? And I dont see why??!! we ALL have to suffer especially our childrens education, because these people in the GOVT cannot BUDGET the money! and stop SPENDING!!! enough already! Why should the people have to constantly bail the govt of calif out because they cant keep the money situation straight? They need to get it right, or we vote new peopke in who can! enoug already California next election lets get fresh people in that can handle this sitiation!

A very angry parent in WILDOMAR!

reality wrote on Mar 3, 2008 10:35 AM:Investigtae the LEUSD! Parents, get involved!

Glad someone gets it wrote on Mar 3, 2008 11:33 AM:Go & read the, recently published in this paper, article (link provided below) about LE & Hemet Middle schools being recognized for "their commitment to focused learning and continuous improvement in middle school education."
Nice to know that meritocracy gets rewarded!
http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2008/02/29/news/californian/lake_elsinore/20_52_132_28_08.txt#blogcomments

Tripp wrote on Mar 3, 2008 1:30 PM:It is very unfortunate to hear that they are thinking of closing down Jean Hayman Elementary... the district should evaluate each school based on test scores, and the school that has the lowest scores should be the ones considered for closure... I know my son's teacher at JHE is a great teacher and has been great at starting off my son's school education in Kindergarten. Very sad to hear they are considering closing it down... I do not understand why the school budgets are being cut... isn't the future in our childrens hands??? how will the world be in the future if our children are not receiving the best possible education they can?
This is something to be considered very carefully... the future does lie in the hands of our children.

Re Lottery money wrote on Mar 3, 2008 3:14 PM:We all thought most of the lottery money was going for education. Here's the trick as I was told. Yes, it is, however as an example, if one million dollars came from the lottery then that was one million the state did not have to kick in. In other words instead of two million going to education only one is. So we all got scammed----------again-

no free lunch wrote on Mar 3, 2008 4:12 PM:i have done alot of repair work at all the valley schools. I am always stunned at the amount of children being feed a free lunch. our schools have become the modern day soup lines of the twenties. how can you afford to live around here and not feed your children? should our school budget go to food while the parents responsible for their childrens needs live beyond their means? alot of these kids have cell phones.... go figure? we need to cut the corruption!

Conspiracy wrote on Mar 3, 2008 5:13 PM:Why does everything have to be a conspiracy? Some people think everything the district does is a conspiracy. Do you really think Haymen kids are going to go to Machado? Maybe it has something to do with location. Maybe the other schools around Haymen are capable of absorbing the students and still giving them a great education.

Reardon wrote on Mar 3, 2008 5:42 PM:California stands 49th in academics (Google "National Report Card" -- a federal site run by the US Department of Education), but California stands 2nd in teacher pay! Anyone see a problem here?

WILDOMARTIAN wrote on Mar 3, 2008 7:08 PM: The only problem with Transparencybreedsauthenticity's reasoning is that the students of JHE will not be transfering to Machado. Machado is located towards the NW end of the lake (in the city of Lake Elsinore) and JHE is at the SE end (in the city of Wildomar- Hmmm, now there's a thought to ponder!). There are at least three schools that JHE students can go to R. Reagan, Wildomar and D. Graham. Yes the R. Reagan scenario is correct (I snense some underhanded motives here). As far as Machado is concerned, closing that failing school and transferring its students to Withrow and Rice Canyon (schools with beeter scores and more) would be a better alternative.
The best solution maybe to vote in all new LEUSD board members at the next election!!!

To Reardon wrote on Mar 3, 2008 7:10 PM:I think the problem is people who think like you! I am a teacher and my pay is pretty good, but now with the economy the way it is, I can barely make it by. California may be 49th in academics (I think your stats are a little low), but look at what the schools in CA have come to. There are more students in the classroom with behavior issues, they do not speak English and we have limited supplies. Those items cost a lot of time that used to go to teaching the basics. Unforutnately, teachers now, while teaching students to read, write and do math, also have to teach kids English, be a parent, teach kids how to behave in a school/social setting all doing this with little help and support from the district, parents, etc. Instead, we get belittled by the public about what a poor job we are doing and how much we get paid. I don't think we get paid enough compared to some jobs where the people get paid way more for the little work they do. Oh yeah, most teachers pay for school items out of their own pockets so their students don't have to since the parents don't volunteer to buy items. I have to buy Kleenex for my classroom because the parents refuse, saying that it is my job. So, along with teaching their children for FREE, I now have to provide them with items the parents should give. I teach at Hayman and am proud of it. Unfortunately, the district is choosing to close a school based on "socio-economic standing, ethnicity, school performance (we are above 700), geographical location and geology". I'm not sure what geology has to do with it, but that's what we were told. See a problem with that? I sure do!

ToReardon wrote on Mar 3, 2008 7:16 PM:Okay, Reardon
Let's pay the teachers less. That will get us better teachers. Sure! At about $50,000 per year, that is a fortune to pay a teacher! Oh, I forgot, houses are about $500,000 here. Maybe that's why teachers in California earn more than teachers in Louisiana where you can get a house for $50,000.

Reardon wrote on Mar 3, 2008 8:07 PM:To To Reardon: I have no problem with paying the teachers more than the teachers in Louisiana -- I just want the students of the teachers to read better than the students of the teachers in Louisiana! Right now, California students at the 4th grade level read better than Louisiana students by two points! They read better than Mississippi students by one point! Perhaps we should just teach our cheerleaders a new cheer: "We're Number 49! We're Number 49!"

Reardon wrote on Mar 3, 2008 8:11 PM:to to Reardon: eading. We also rank 49th in 8th grade reading.

There is something to say for consistency, so we also rank 49th in 4th grade math– and somehow our 8th graders managed to finish 46th in math.

Now, it is hard to put enough lipstick on this pig to provide much help. The best news is that this year the Federal National Report Card only tested reading and math. Probably next year they will test science and writing, but if you are hoping for better results, it ain’t gonna happen!

You see, the National Educational Assessment Program has been publishing these results (Google “National Report Card”) for years, but the results are so abysmal that news outlets have papered over them.

My first reaction was to check to see how well our teachers are paid – so I went to the NEA (the teachers union) website, only to find that California teachers make an average of $57,876.00, second highest in the nation.

What to do about schools? First, let no one in the ESL program attend “regular” classes until they are fluent in English. Second, disassociate EVERYTHING not academic (sports, band, etc.) from schools. Third, pay beginning teachers $100,000 a year – not to reward the current bunch but to offer an incentive for bright students in computers and engineering to come into teaching. Fourth, do no permit ANYONE with an educational degree near a classroom – require teachers with math degrees to teach math, and English degrees to teach English, etc. Fifth, do away with tenure – good teachers don't need it, and bad teachers should not have it. Sixth, strengthen the CBEST test for incoming California teachers. Massachusetts, which stands number 1 in most test categories, has just released their decade-long study of their incoming teacher test – and their incoming Caucasian teachers FAIL the test at a 24% rate. (Their Hispanic teachers fail at a 52% rate, and their Black teachers fail at a 54% rate.) In California, our incoming teachers pass at a 100% rate! Any test with a 100% passing rate is, by definition, too easy!

Reardon wrote on Mar 3, 2008 8:44 PM:To To Reardon: Apologies for the truncated first two paragraphs. My fault.

Here they are: To be brutally direct, California ranks 49th out of 52 States and Districts in 4th grade reading. We also rank 49th in 8th grade reading.

There is something to say for consistency, so we also rank 49th in 4th grade math– and somehow our 8th graders managed to finish 46th in math.

A teacher wrote on Mar 3, 2008 8:49 PM:Nobody tells doctors or nurses how to do their job but everybody thinks they know how to teach better than a teacher. To say that an educational degree is detrimental to teaching ability is just ignorant. Knowledge of the subject matter is trivial compared to the knowledge of how to impart it to kids who are at school because they have to be, not because they want to be. Have you ever tried to teach a five year old to read? Knowing how to read yourself is certainly not enough of a qualification. I do it every day, and I do it well. And I do it using everything I learned from teacher college and everything I learned from personal experience and everything I learned from district inservices and all the experience I can glean from my colleagues. No Child Left Behind is a hinderance to teaching kids to read because it narrows your options about what to do for kids. No teacher is motivated by laziness or greed. Teaching is difficult and complicated, and there are many other things we could do with our degrees. I love to teach. I love to teach low income kids and second language learners and anyone else that they send to me, but I would appreciate support and cooperation, not scapegoating and grandstanding. I care about your kids. All teachers I work with every day care about your kids and are giving them their best.

Reardon wrote on Mar 3, 2008 9:14 PM:To A Teacher: Massachusetts teachers must care more about their kids than California teachers care about their kids because Massachusetts teachers' kids do so much better on the same tests!

To Reardon wrote on Mar 3, 2008 9:27 PM:CA also ranks 47th in per pupil spending according to the DOE. So what is your point. Just like anything in ife you get what you pay for. To CA teachers get paid well...it depends on how you look at the pay. Compared to other professions that have the same amount of education no. If you look at a national pay scale then yes...but when you compare that to the cost of living in CA then no. The govt also has the poverty line for a family of four set at $21,000...I guess that means that nonody dhould be in poverty right. Stop using fuzzy math.

To Reardon wrote on Mar 3, 2008 9:31 PM:If you compare what the states are doing that are near the top you can also se why CA is low. The states at the top do not have large populations of English langauge learners, they have an average of 23:1 class sizes across all grade levels, their schools have low enrollment and focus more on developing the whole child, and they have the highest per-pupil spending. Money does not solve everything but when its is allocated coreectly it can make a big difference (DOE). Also, Utah is a great state for education because....they gave up federal funding so they do not have to follow NCLB.

A teacher wrote on Mar 3, 2008 10:07 PM:Any child's test scores is in indicator of lots of different factors. The number one predictive factor of high test scores is socioeconomic level. In other words, richer kids score better. Is that because richer kids are smarter? No, it is because they come from families with better education and more resources. In other words, their parents can read to them because they are good readers themselves, and there are lots of books in the home because there is money to buy them. My daughter attends a school in a high income neighborhood and there were lots of kids who came to her Kindergarten class already reading. That is a lot rarer in my district. Many of the kids I get do not know the name of a single letter. In other words, there can be more that two year's educational difference between kids before they ever start school. The role the parents play in their child's schooling is decisive at every grade. If our tests truly tested growth in individual children over the course of a year, they would come closer to truly assessing kids (and teachers). But what they usually test is how did the low income kids compete with the high income kids. I am all for the sorts of tests which test yearly growth. Tracking kids across grade levels can also help us set goals for these kids that can help them achieve their goals over a set period, rather than labelling them as failing because they cannot compete at a snapshot in time with their more privileged peers. Also, do you think Massachusetts has the same percentage of second language learners? How long would it take you to learn a new language to the extent that you would be able to compete with people for whom it was their native language? I love teaching second language learners. It is important to be patient and cut them slack as they learn the language, because they blossom after that. But yearly tests are not patient things.

Danielle wrote on Mar 3, 2008 11:03 PM:As a parent of a child that goes to JHE, I was devastated when I picked my child up from school today, only to be handed a flyer saying the school might be closing for next year. This is my son's third year at the school, and my oldest also went there for 2 years. Not only do I love the staff and teachers there, my son is getting so much extra help from the RSP teacher. More help than he would get from another school, I'm afraid.

Unless JHE parents show up on the 11th (which btw, historically we have very low parent involvement), I think the district will close the school.

I was told by another parent that the all-call was supposed to have gone out to announce the meeting they had over the weekend. Did any of the parents get this call? How interesting that this meeting took place over a weekend....and that there was no parental objections!!! The district will end up getting their way, because they know exactly how to play the game.

MrsP wrote on Mar 4, 2008 7:09 AM:March 11th is our next opportunity to have input to this budget nightmare. Please make sure ALL interested community members attend the next session at Ortega High.-

Laura wrote on Mar 4, 2008 9:19 AM:As a parent of 2 children attending JHE, I was really sad and angry to hear about the possibility of the school closing. I read this Sunday afternoon on the NCT website.Did we not just vote for all of these new propositions in february? where is that money? CA lottery? All of our tax money? Why did Davis get recalled, isnt it because the way he managed the budget? Well maybe it is time to recall Arnold.We as parents need to support our TEACHERS. We need to be more involved in the school.I know that i would be willing to buy sacrafice a little money donate it to my childs class.If you really care about your childs education it is now up to us as parents and the community to do something about it.PLEASE ATTEND THE MEETINGS ON THE 11th AND ON THE 20th. Maybe these meetings should be held at the JHE so that all of the parents can attend.But of course it is just a stratagy of LEUSD so that they can make there own decision about our school.What about cutting adm jobs and Franks budget so the teachers can keep their jobs. SUPPORT YOUR SCHOOL.

Reardon wrote on Mar 4, 2008 10:24 AM:To To Reardon: The NCTimes will permit the use of government citations of internet links, so please provide us with the DOE link showing that California is 47th in spending for schools. The NEA (National Education Association) says California is 29th. As to more spending: I have checked the statutes carefully, and there is no prohibition to you sending YOUR money to the school district. If you have a tax refund check, just sign it over and the school district will be very receptive to spending your money -- and anyone else who believes that YOUR school district needs more money, please write a check! If you believe YOUR child needs more money, spend it – just stop asking me to spend more money on your child.

Reardon wrote on Mar 4, 2008 11:18 AM:Budget nightmare? Get a grip! EVERYONE's income is down, except perhaps a massage parlor in Oceanside. My income is down 70%, as is the income of everyone in the real estate business -- not just Realtors, but title companies, escrow companies, pest control companies, remodelers, furniture stores, carpet stores and installers, home inspectors, appraisers...and now that means car sales are down, and…and you want more money because your school is getting less than a 10% cut? Tell me this is a Comedy Central blog…right?

Michele wrote on Mar 4, 2008 11:30 AM:Remember prop 98 was supposed to guarantee minimum funding to schools but Our Governator had power to disband that. What is the point of voting if this is going to happen?

To Reardon wrote on Mar 4, 2008 1:26 PM:Until the Parents, students & taxpayers stand up & say ENOUGH already, NOTHING will change. Don't expect that to happen anytime soon. Do you really think that parents will say my child's school is not adequately educationg them? I don't think so. Oh & you don't have to look at the Nat'l data to realize how bad it is here. Just look at the % of students who graduate with the requirements needed to enter a CSU or a USC. Then try & find the info on how many students, who choose to continue their education, REQUIRE remediation in English &/or Math (you know, those do-over courses that don't count towards any degree). What's even WORSE is the FACT that most of the students who REQUIRE remedial courses do NOT stick around to earn a degree. Now, can you guess how much money we'd SAVE in CA (to perhaps pump into K-12 ed) if we could do away with the need to remediate (teach what our students are supposed to be learing in high school) our secondary students? Go look up the Getting Down to Facts reports that say that even with more money, without MAJOR reform, more money won't matter. I'm with you, I do NOT want to throw any MORE money at at BROKEN system.
Oh, BTW, I'm from MA, so I'm not buying into the CAs different argument. Not sure how many English Learners are there but the socioeconomic population is NOT that different. Also, MA has the grandchild of prop 13 (prop 2 & 1/2) and they can get the job done there (taxes levys are pretty comprable to what they are here).
The biggest PROBLEM here in CA is that the public continues to buy into the excuses given by the educrats (as well as the "we don't have enough money to do the job" line of BULL). How much is enough....100% of our State's budget?

To Reardon wrote on Mar 4, 2008 3:13 PM:I have a chart showing that CA is 46th in per pupil expenditures. The source cited is: Education Week Quality Counts 2008. It also says that Washington DC and Hawaii were excluded from the rankings because they are single-jurisdiction states.
I have a lot of respect for teachers nowadays. Times have changed. As said above, they get kids who come from such poor backgrounds and are SO behind. Yet it's they're fault and they are failing the kids?!?! Parents now send their kids to school and don't hold up their end. They call the school if the kid gets a bad grade. I am not a teacher but I work as an aide and it's amazing what some parents will do. Their kids can do no wrong. Long story short, many problems but no easy answers. Is throwing more money at schools the only solution? No. But it sure doesn't solve anything to take away 10% of each school's budget state-wide.

ModernRock wrote on Mar 4, 2008 3:24 PM:This is very sad. But the bottom line is that we need to take government out of education. Back in the day, elementary and secondary education was largely parent financed. Today, taxpayers spend more than $6,000 a year per student, more than virtually any other country, including Japan. With what result? Poor test scores, high dropout rate, kids incapable of filling out employment applications. Why can't the private sector assume this responsibility? Let's cheer anything, including vouchers, that takes us in this direction. We need to take control of our Education system!

Rankings wrote on Mar 4, 2008 3:58 PM:Massachusetts receives $9,930 per pupil in 12th place nationwide while California receives $7,081 per pupil and ranks 46th. Big difference!

So, how much MORE money.... wrote on Mar 4, 2008 7:42 PM:...would you propose throwing at CA's (broken) education system?
How much of the State budget should education get? It's already the biggest piece of the pie and our kids, ALL kids, still aren't learning what they need to. API is a joke (did you know that LEUSD & Hemet USD just got awards from the State because they've "improved" so much?) and AYP (think NCLB) is considered to be a "bad thing" for kids.
Here's a suggestion for you...let's use something called "value added." Other States do this. Look above, someone's already mentioned it. You look at where a child is performing at the beginning & at the end of the year & calculate how much ground they've gained. Oh, that's RIGHT, never mind, CA can't even get a system like this going (although they've been at it for YEARS). CA can't track individual students yet (and it appears that it will take years until they have the ability to do that). Isn't it nice to know that we live in a State that's so technologically inept? Maybe if we give them even more money, they'd get the system going.

Reardon wrote on Mar 4, 2008 8:25 PM:Rankings -- show me your data! I don’t know where you get your information, but the U.S, Census Bureau (http://ftp2.census.gov/govs/school/05f33pub.pdf ) reports California at $8,067, and Mass. at $11,267. That makes California 27th in spending, but still 49th in testing. – testing lower than their spending, while Mass. tests at number one while spending at number six – or testing HIGHER than their spending. That is what I want for California – to get more bang for the buck, not less!

Reardon Be Real wrote on Mar 4, 2008 10:29 PM:First of all, the students in each state are tested by different standrds. No Child Left Behind requires each state to develop standards with which to measure student achievement, but each state has adopted differeent standards. California has adopted the highest standards of any state, and so higher scores in California are the hardest to attain.

Secondly, strong public schools are the future of our economy. Starving public schools will only ensure that they fail, and the productivity of the workforce in the future will be diminished. Investing in public schools is the best way to ensure a vibrant economy in the future.

Thirdly, California public schools have been seroiusly underfunded for years. Starving the public schools is a sure means to make sure the student scores for California continue to be low.

Where did all this hatred for teachers and schools come from? You sound like all of those politicians trying to convince the rest of us that schools are failing and students aren't learning when in reality the opposite is actually true. Our schools in the valley are very successful and our students are excelling.

Does saving a little of your tax dollars mean so much to you that you are willing to sacrifice the future of our great nation?

Reardon wrote on Mar 5, 2008 9:25 AM:To Reardon Be Real: NO! The test given by the federal government to all students for The National Report Card is exactly the same test in every state. It is THE SAME STANDARD! Please Google "National Report Card" and get your facts straight before opining! My interest is to strengthen education -- I was a core adjunct prof of computer science for 14 years, and taught many of today's teachers because many of my courses were core classes required for graduation -- graduate and undergraduate -- by students in ALL schools, including the School of Education! There is no hatred for schools, only a sincere desire to get them better, and first we must admit that they are BAD! If we are satisfied with our current standing, nothing will change.

Reardon wrote on Mar 5, 2008 12:48 PM:To Reardon Be Real: NO! The test given by the federal government to all students for The National Report Card is exactly the same test in every state. It is THE SAME STANDARD! Please Google "National Report Card" and get your facts straight before opining! My interest is to strengthen education -- I was a core adjunct prof of computer science for 14 years, and taught many of today's teachers because many of my courses were core classes required for graduation -- graduate and undergraduate -- by students in ALL schools, including the School of Education!

To Reardon wrote on Mar 5, 2008 7:10 PM:Here is your reality check. The test given by the feds are norm referenced tests. That means that a group of students in middle America are tested and all students are compared to those students. Every student is different and every state has different state mandated standards that teachers teach to. Therefore, comparing CA students scores to Maine students scores on a norm referenced test tells us nothing.