Senior wrote on Mar 9, 2008 3:24 AM:Temecula contracts for county sheriffs, but we also read about the Temecula Police Chief, and sometimes Temecula police officers. Do they have both, some of their own police and some sheriffs. Please explains in an article some time soon.

Politics.... wrote on Mar 9, 2008 9:01 AM:Senior: Calling the Riverside County Sheriff's Department the Temecula Police Department is just an attempt by the city of Temecula to make themselves feel as if they have their own police department. And a giveaway by the Sheriff. Every "police officer" you see in Temecula is a Riverside County Deputy Sheriff. The "chief" is a Riverside County Sheriff's captain. Gotta love those politics...

why wrote on Mar 9, 2008 9:09 AM:Why is this article not under Temecula news?! Come on NCT!!

RF wrote on Mar 9, 2008 9:46 AM:Senior - All "Politics" aside, the real answer to your question is: When cities incorporate, they make a decision to contract law enforcement services from the Sheriff's Department or start their own Police Department. Cities contract from the Sheriff's Department often because the infrastructure is already in place for the law enforcement division - beyond just the officers this includes dispatch/communications, maintenance, special teams (such as SWAT, Computer crimes, Central Homicide Unit, etc.) and more. This naturally also includes all the facilities that go towards supporting this infrastructure.

Usually cities start contracting with Sheriff's Departments when they are smaller because they do not have the budget to support such a large infrastructure and additional services. When the city grows in size and tax dollars they may choose to start their own police department, such has successfully been accomplished in Murrieta, for example.

However, some cities - such as Temecula - choose to continue contracting with the Sheriff's Department for a variety of reasons (which I am sure "Politics" will disagree with, but I will present them nonetheless). One of the main reasons is the offset of liability for the city as the Sheriff's Department takes on the lion's share of blame/responsibility for lawsuits against the Department (for police actions in the field). Also, we revert to the discussion regarding additional services and expenditures. The city that contracts the law enforcement services would still have to output a very large amount of money - way beyond teh contract dollars which are themselves significant - to set up a police station, dispatch center and more. Still, they would have to incur the operating costs after the fact. This would be without benefit for several, several years of the additional special teams mentioned before, etc. (i.e., SWAT, electronic identifty theft team and more). Certainly, it can be done effectively if cities want to develop their own department. If they are satisfied with their services overall, however, they often do not want the additional large expense and the large added and continual cost of liability.

All contract cities call themselves a "police department" instead of the Sheriff's Department because they are paying quite well for the services (this is not just a Temecula polictical ploy). The administration of the police station within the contract city also works very closely with the city coincil of the contract cities and their staff to address issues and areas of concern by the city's administration. Whereas, a non-contract area covered by the Sheriff's Department (such as the unincorporated county areas of Murrieta, Hemet and more) is handled overall by the County's Board of Supervisors.

And to answer Politics' suspicions: Yes, I work for a Sheriff's Department. I believe an argument, however, can be made for both avenues of police services cities choose to utilize. Your question was regarding why the newspaper addressed the Temecula Police Chief and Officers and hopefully I have answered it here.

ness wrote on Mar 9, 2008 10:11 AM:why is the most important thing about this article the darn "politics" of the sheriff's department/temecula police department?!
someone died here....someone got shot and killed (instantly, by the way)right in front of their 7 year old son and two little brothers....
thats what all the comments should be about!!!!


sorry guys!

well well wrote on Mar 9, 2008 10:33 AM:i just want to know what the REAL story is here. Did the off duty officer really identify himself? was it self defense or just he wanted to look cool???

the TV stations are reporting that he never identified himself. i think that its sad that he got shot.

Marie wrote on Mar 9, 2008 10:55 AM:Ness: Forgive some people for swaying the story another way, but you apparently have a lot more information than the NC times is reporting. They make no mention of the man instantly dying nor any mention of it being in front of his children! Hopefully there were plenty of witnesses and the "real" truth will come out. If the officer was being beaten, then it's self-defense (They are allowed to carry, off duty).

KB wrote on Mar 9, 2008 11:16 AM:Anyone is allowed to defend themselves if they are being attacked - regardless of who the attacker is.

When it comes to incidents with the police, I would say it is unlikely the truth will be revealed.

Either way, Temecula is on the decline.

Zygo wrote on Mar 9, 2008 11:51 AM:Yes, I agree the story was about a shooting and death...but until there is more info, I would like to respond to RF:
I agree with you on all but minor details. Not all contract cities call themselves Police Department and police officers, only contract cities within Riverside County do that. L.A., Orange, and San Bernardino Counties within contract cities still call there officers deputy sheriffs. Most now have changed from placing Sheriff's Department with the city logo on the side of their patrol cars to "(city name) Police Department" with Sheriff on the rear of the vehicle. Riverside is the only one of the four that doesn't place Sheriff anywhere on the car. The Station captain in all counties but Riverside is the station captain...here it is Chief (which hides that in a few cases he/she may only be a lieutenant. Stations are mixed, most still call there stations Sheriff Stations, i.e. Norwark Sheriff Station, San Dimas Sheriff Station for their cities. In San Bernardino it is mixed, they are called Police and Sheriff's Department. In news reports, all are identified as deputy sheriffs not police officers from such and such city.

The reason cities stay with the Sheriff's Department (L.A., Orange, Riverside, San Bernadrino) is not only money but often the Sheriff's Department can provide a superior level of service and resources.

AF wrote on Mar 9, 2008 12:14 PM:KB,
Because some people who had probably been drinking beats a person up and that person defends himself you say Temecula is on the decline. It was a random act of male aggression. This city is like any other with its share of problems, but it is still great and it is not on the decline.

alcohol related wrote on Mar 9, 2008 12:17 PM:Old Town is being turned into a regional drinking establishment. All of the bars were very busy during the Rod Run and I saw no controls for dealing with being drunk in public. Very minimal police presence for all of the drinking going on. As for after the event, it seems that there was very little police presence, given the numbers in town and the fact that the bars were over-serving everyone.

Leave it alone wrote on Mar 9, 2008 12:42 PM:until all the facts are in. What we read in the paper is surface stuff. Takes time to get all the facts. By the way the citizens of the then newly formed city of Murrieta voted to have their own police dept. Murrieta built their department from the ground up with experienced officers from other police agencies. They worked out of a trailer until 6 years ago. As a citizen of Murrieta I am very proud of what we as a city have accomplished.

To well well wrote on Mar 9, 2008 12:43 PM:Clearly there are more details in this situation than are being reported by any media avenue. That being said, I seriously doubt the off-duty officer "wanted to look cool". Police officers can be targets of violence both on and off the job, simply because they are police officers. How do you know that officer wasn't trying to intervene and help someone when the attackers turned their ire on him? Your comments are nothing but inflammatory.

To KB wrote on Mar 9, 2008 12:48 PM:You say, "When it comes to incidents with the police, I would say it is unlikely the truth will be revealed." Clearly, you are another individual with little respect for those who put their lives on the line for us. I'm not rushing to judgement about the situation reported here, but I'm disgusted by your inflammatory statement.

It's not just Temecula. Our whole society is in decline right now, with a growing number of individuals who have a lack of respect for others and a greater lack of respect for authority.

plb wrote on Mar 9, 2008 12:53 PM:As far as "KB" is concern, you remind me of someone who see's a few police cover-ups in the country and then just went with a generalized atittude that most, if not all police dept's are engaged in full-blown cover-ups. Why the need to generalize such a negative opinion? There's always a few people or a few events that give whatever the scenario is, a bad name, or spoil it for the rest of the good ones, but that doesn't mean it applies to most or all. Yours seems to come from your negativity more than anything else. Also, why the need to be so pessimistic, in regards to your last statement? Although, I have to say, the more I think about it, your pessimism and over-done generalizing do share a common denominator. That everything you perceive or say has 'negative overtones'. Sheesh...

Jennifer wrote on Mar 9, 2008 12:56 PM:My family and I were there last night, that man was jumped by a group of men. He got the crap beat out him. He was hit, kicked and he fought back for his own life. BTW... there were no children around.

Mark wrote on Mar 9, 2008 1:05 PM:This guy was just getting a dose of his own medicine.

Jake A. wrote on Mar 9, 2008 1:22 PM:What's the real story? I am very interested in what happened. I am a Temecula resident with a daughter and I was border line going to go the Rod Run with my family to support a local community event. Other things came up and I changed plans.

From what I can gather this is what seems happened last night.

An off duty police officer attended the event and got was getting beat by mob and made a decision that he his life was in danger and he needed to defend himself. If this was the case, was there alchol involved? Did he announce that he was a police officer? Once his weapon was shown, did that stop the attack? Did he fire out of anger or was he still in danger? Enough danger to use deadly force?

Obviously people that are reading this can answer some or all of my question. If you were there or have some information I would be interested in hearing on what really went on?

DJ wrote on Mar 9, 2008 1:48 PM:Sounds to me that these guys who attacked the off-duty officer got what they deserved...Officer or civilian, you have the right to defend yourself from attacks, especially from multiple attackers.

Politics wrote on Mar 9, 2008 2:12 PM:To "RF"

Don't be so defensive. I agree cities save a fortune contracting with the Sheriff's Department over having their own police department. However, it is a cave in by the Sheriff to allow a contract city to call it a police dapartment just to make the city feel better. To require a deputy sheriff in Riverside County to wear a different uniform for every contract city he may work in is ridiculous. By the way...how many different unifoms are worn by Riverside County deputy sheriff's?

hh wrote on Mar 9, 2008 2:13 PM:To DJ
No one should die, He died in front of his son! Get all the facts before writing something like that there is still way more to the story that has yet to come out. You will not feel so sorry for the officer when the truth comes out all the way..

Re: Reponse to well well wrote on Mar 9, 2008 2:43 PM:... The facts are not all out yet, but there were a lot of people there and the truth will come out. In the meantime all the speculation will do nothing but hurt more the people that were involved.

Furthermore, while I agree that off duty officers are allowed to carry while not on duty, and they are allowed to protect themselves ... using a gun to open fire in the middle of a busy street is never acceptable. I don't care who you are. Just because he is a police officer does not make this right.

Just my opinion of course.

To Jennifer wrote on Mar 9, 2008 3:18 PM:You and your family? are there no kids in your family? seems like an odd statement to say that there were no kids there, I was at the rod run all day, there were kids everywhere.

I am sure that there is more to this story. Getting shot and killed for a fist fight is hardly justified. Our police are out of control. People just don't beat down a cop in front of a whole restaurant for no reason, thats absurd. ...

GET REAL wrote on Mar 9, 2008 3:21 PM:Everyone, quit the speculation. There are families involed. Jennifer, if you were there, how did you miss his son? If the officer was jumped, he was not jumped by the victims. Police Protectors, get a grip! We are all thankful for the serviceman that protect us; however, you have to admit when it involves one of their own the investigation goes differently. If you were at the hospital last night or at the crime scene you would all agree. It is sad as you review the media and internet and the time frames things were announced to the public compared to when the information was given to the family at the hospital. Sad to check the internet and see the Californian reported one person killed at 9:58 pm; however we were not notified in the hospital waiting area until well after that. In addition, the investigators would answer no questions to the family; however, the media was spreading information rapidly.

speak up wrote on Mar 9, 2008 3:28 PM:I hope all of you who were saying you were there and sawwhat happened are talking to the cops and telling them what you saw. You keep saying the story will come out, but unless you are, it won't. Was the off-duty cop jumped, or did he provoke the attack somehow? If you saw it, you need to come forward. Don't hide behind the "I don;t want to get involved" crap.

mg wrote on Mar 9, 2008 3:34 PM:There is no reason to shoot an unarmed man. ... something is strange here

og wrote on Mar 9, 2008 4:07 PM:to HH: how do you know he died in front of his son unless you were there or know the victim personally. From what it sounds like from people who were in attendance at the event is that there were no children around at the time and that it happened outside of a bar. If this guys children were there hopefully they are of age. No one knows what the full story is until more info is provided.

Hannah wrote on Mar 9, 2008 4:18 PM:Wow i live close to old town.
i just lwft the car show about an 1 hour before that when i dropped my friend ff at her house.

rench wrote on Mar 9, 2008 4:23 PM:I was at the Temecula Rod Run also, in fact I was working as a security guard for one of the sponsor organizations. I have done this at the last 3 Temecula Rod Runs, and there were enough Police at this one, quite a bit more than I have seen in the past. Our security detail was in constant contact with each other and the Police by way of 2-way radio. Any suspiciuos activity, or people under the influence, or any unsafe situation was immediately relayed to the Police, and appropriate action taken. We had no serious situations for either Friday night's Old Town Cruise, or the show on Saturday. The car show concluded at 4 P.M., and the last of the Hot Rods, vendors, and associated equipment was off the street (and in most cases out of town) by 5:30 P.M. Saturday. There is no connection that I can see between the Rod Run and the shooting. The only possible connection would be that some of the people involved in the shooting MAY HAVE attended the Rod Run. The article in the Press-Enterprise made somewhat of a connection between the two. I am glad to see that The Californian did not. Thank you.

BP wrote on Mar 9, 2008 4:29 PM:Don't you people have anything better to do than sit on the computer and talk about a bunch of speculation for which you have no details on? This is what our world is coming to...a bunch of whiners that make knee jerk reactions and feel they need to spout out their feelings in a blog. Get a life people! A man was shot ...

JM wrote on Mar 9, 2008 4:41 PM:To hh - so what are all the facts? If you have more information I think we'd all like to hear it. Thanks.

truethatis wrote on Mar 9, 2008 5:21 PM:Why would a police officer get beat down for NO REASON??? ...
This is just stupid, people are dead, and nobody seems to care anymore.

rench wrote on Mar 9, 2008 5:27 PM:BP-It seems to me that you are on the computer doing pretty much the same as all of us. Get a life? Maybe we are trying to socialize and make some sense of what happened. And just maybe some of us can shed some light on what is not being immediately reported in the media. Get a life, indeed.

RF wrote on Mar 9, 2008 5:56 PM:To Politics, Ness, Leave it Alone and Zygo - Politics: Sorry if it sounded defensive, just adding a bit of my own sarcasm. I was trying to answer Senior's question with as much concrete information as possible, not speculation. Why not answer the actual question with real issues rather than just throw out an argument about "Politics." How does that educate anyone or open up real discussion? Even if that's your stand, look at what the underlying foundation is and then debate the issues or your theories behind practices.

Ness: The story IS about the shooting and the facts surrounding it, all of which we do not have at this point. Again, just answering a simple question posed by a reader, not trying to skew the comments away from the story at hand. Three comments in all of this doesn't really take away from the story. As for the incident, I agree with many of the readers here - debate all you want, but none of us have the whole story. Stop trying to hang the cop from the rafters (or the citizen) when we don't know what happened. All of this is based on a late night press release with the majority of information available (and able to be conifrmed without specualtaion) at the time. Yes, demand answers. No, don't believe that BS that when cops investigate one of their own its "different." I can tell you, it's exteremely stringent. I know many will disagree with that statement and by no means am I saying every cop and administration is 100%. I would hope so, but that's not reality. Overall, however, police personnel investigations are in depth and shooting review boards are months in the making due to the sheer volume of evidence, actions, criminal and department policy considerations. Don't let bad stories or experiences about cops paint such a wide brush for those of you who believe everything with the police is a cover up.

Leave It Alone - Murrieta has done a fantastic job with developing and maintaining their own police department. The city has dedicated itself to its public safety organizations and done a service to its citizens with the overall quality of the officrs and firefighters. I have a few friends on the department over there and they seem to have a good rapport with each other and their admin.

Zygo - Interesting. I was unaware regarding the text on the cars or the referrals as "Chief" were a Riverside I County solo gig. As far as I know, however, none of the "Chiefs" are lieutenants. If you are in charge of a station in RivCo, you are a Captain. If you know otherwise, where?

to BP wrote on Mar 9, 2008 6:13 PM:why are you asking if people have anything better to do than sit on the computer and whine when your doing that same exact thing. haha PFFFFFFFFF.

??? wrote on Mar 9, 2008 6:18 PM:I just reported some good facts that channel 7 news gave and you have not posted my comment. Why was I censored? I did not give anything the channel 7 did not give? Was it because it was not reported by you guys? Editor's Note: Yes. We have no confirmation of the details or what channel 7 is reporting, therefore will not allow attribution to another news source.

Open Minded wrote on Mar 9, 2008 6:38 PM:So many people with ignorant comments. "BP" makes sense, Why the speculation? Why are people so quick to bash Cops (off duty or otherwise). Believe me, in this day an age, if he blew it he'll face the consequences, but if he is vindicated then you'll call it a "cover up" because it's more interesting that way. Quick to bad mouth the Cops, but if there weren't any then you'd be screaming because no one is there to protect you. As far as shooting an unarmed man, I suppose if you were getting beat and you had the means to protect yourself you would just take the beating. I could go on and on about the ignorance, but frankly I have learned that you can't reason with ignorance. Wait for the facts and pray for the family of the person who was shot. They are the real victims. They have to live with the loss, no matter who was at fault.

Easygoing wrote on Mar 9, 2008 6:41 PM:Sad. It's the people from out of town coming here acting stupid giving Temecula a bad rap. I won't be surprised if this is the last of the Rod Run.

NO SMOKE wrote on Mar 9, 2008 7:23 PM:Several obvious facts that have been barely touched on. FACT 1: As one reader mentioned earlier WE DO NOT HAVE MUCH IN THE WAY OF LOCAL MEDIA IN THIS COMMUNITY OF ANY KIND. Print or otherwise. Fact 2: As reported by the local police: a police officer (not in the line of duty) shot and killed someone. He may have been defending himself or others, however a cell phone call to 911 seemingly would have been a more sensible weapon. Hopefully, we will find out....the remainder of the facts in this case. AND perhaps someday we will have some sort of local media in this area, instead of being the "news stepchildren" of L.A. and to a lesser degree San Diego media outlets. The local population is large enough to support it.

Let's focus people.. wrote on Mar 9, 2008 7:59 PM:Everyone has their opinion to what really happened (most people in this blog were not even there, but "know" what happened do to the never wrong media reports). Some just have off the wall comment about "politics".

Seriously, who cares who patrols the city streets of Temecula(Police officers or Sheriff Deputies). It's a "title", their one in the same.

Let's focus people...
There was a fatal shooting involving an off duty police officer from another city. If there was alcohol involved, well, I have faith in the agencies that will be investigating this incident, they will find out exactly what happened.

I must say to everyone who have nothing but BS opinions about "politics" and "really" what happened, this is not the place. Focus on the story and leave the BS out.

to Easygoing wrote on Mar 9, 2008 8:35 PM:How do you know the other people are from out of town?

To No Smoke wrote on Mar 9, 2008 8:57 PM:It's pretty hard to make a cell phone call when you are getting the crap beat out of you by 3-4 young guys.

To No Smoke wrote on Mar 9, 2008 9:04 PM:If, as the paper reported, this off duty cop was getting the c--p beat out of him, do you really think he would take out a cell phone and dial 911? Reportedly he is on the Costa Mesa police force. I lived in Costa Mesa and I know for a fact that they will investigate fully. They are an outstanding police agency. Until all the facts come out everyone just needs to chill. People watch too much TV, crimes are not solved in a day. If you have ever been called for jury duty you will realize that the crime in that particular case occurred at least a year or two earlier.

Zack wrote on Mar 9, 2008 9:28 PM:I just want to know one thing, was the officer drinking or not?

Knowing the "good old boys network" within the police department, we can already see the lack of details coming out because he was an officer.

If anyone else shot someone, their name and nature of the incident would already be in the news.

JC wrote on Mar 9, 2008 10:09 PM:First off...there was so much police presense at the rod run that participants have decided to quit attending. The police were ticketing people and their cars left and right. They were also ticketing attendants for crossing the street at the wrong spot. It was sad. Second, Temecula itself is on the decline for its behavior to these people they invite in from out of town....and then fine for showing up. Third....it was far stricter than ever before. I have been attending since 1991, and will never attend again. In fact I am chosing to move from Temecula after living here since before there was a single stop light. Lastly.... I dont know the details about the shooting, but I can guarantee there could have been another solution. If there had been a perrson involved without a gun....it would have been resolved like things used to be. And I also believe if it was that bad, people would have broken it up, or called the police...there werre more than enough of them there. ... It is beyond sad. I used to love it here, but now it is just more and more people, and many with questionable motives. Toronto will be my next destination. I moved here because it wass green and beautiful. Now it is just track housing and crowds.

Merchant wrote on Mar 9, 2008 10:11 PM:I own a business in Old Town but had left town about 30 minutes before the shooting took place. I do not have any facts in this situation but am immensely sad for those involved. Old Town is becoming a much more active area and one thing is clear- we need a more consistent police presence in town and it needs to be 24 hours a day. Old Town all but rolls up the sidewalks by 6:00 p.m. and I know that when I am there working late at night it can be a scary place. It is dark and deserted and many of the people still out and about are either older kids on skateboards or people that have been dining and drinking. I do not think this incident had anything to do with the Rod Run as the event itself was well supervised and the crowd was not rowdy at all. As a merchant that wants to see Old Town continue to grow and hopefully gain a nightlife I would just ask that the city consider having at least two officers patrol Old Town Front Street, 24-hours a day. If this was the case and there was an altercation, burglary, robbery or other incident at least there would be officers on scene quickly and perhaps a tragedy such as this could be avoided. On one occasion my business was broken into in the middle of the night, I was notified by my alarm company and they also contacted the police; it took me 20 minutes to arrive and I still beat the police by at least 15 minutes, this type of response is just not acceptable in a town with this population and a city that is financially strong. My heartfelt prayers go out to the families of all involved in the horrible incident.

Sharron P. wrote on Mar 9, 2008 10:18 PM:I was not down there, but, my 12 year old granddaughter was in the community Theater as she is acting in play there and they were on lockdown inside the theater. Her mother could not get to her for several hours. They were told that the shooting was right outside of the theater. I live in Carlsbad and because I was so scared and worried, my husband and I drove up to see if we could help the kids. The police finally let the kids go home around 11:30pm. I want to know why the kids had to stick around so long. Does anyone have any answers?

Zygo wrote on Mar 9, 2008 11:11 PM:To RF...article from NC Times, "Police Chief moving to new assignment" by John Hall dated 12-22-2005...(cut & paste)
"Temecula's new police chief will be Mitch Alm, who previously served as a sergeant overseeing special teams and events before being promoted to a lieutenant and assigned as chief of the San Jacinto Police Department under a contract with the sheriff's department."

So, unless the NC Times got it wrong, the Riverside Sheriff's Department does, or at least has in the past, assigned lieutenants as city police chiefs.

max headroom wrote on Mar 9, 2008 11:20 PM:Booze badges and bulletts don't mix. Let your gun at home when you go to the saloon.

murrieta resident wrote on Mar 10, 2008 12:40 AM:call in the FBI - after seeing the news on Channel 7 and Channel 4 and Fox 11 and reading the 'newest' article...I'm convinced a cover-up will take place. To the family...I am sorry for your loss and I hope you will fight this fight for your son AND grandson!!

Good old boy network? wrote on Mar 10, 2008 1:44 AM:Read the paper! Search the internet! Search how many former and current police officer are facing charges today or how many had been fired for bad conduct?

832 wrote on Mar 10, 2008 7:00 AM:God bless you my brother, sorry you had to go through this. We stand shoulder to shoulder with you.

To the rest of you...be thankful that no matter your feelings, your inflammatory comments, your jump to conclusions and armchair q'backing...when you call 9-1-1, we will always respond.

Police officers have the most difficult job in America, along with our servicemen and women. They are charged with the tremendous responsibility to save lives at any cost, take lives when there is no alternative, knowing that they will be judged by a panel of strangers who know or care little about the facts; watch a brother or sister lose their life, or make the ultimate sacrifice.

I don't claim to know the facts of this case as I was not present.

Nor, gentle readers, should you.

Old Town Resident wrote on Mar 10, 2008 7:15 AM:I drove by at 7:20 and the party was still going strong....let's see...Alcohol and a Rod Run....nice family fun ? What's next?

DM wrote on Mar 10, 2008 8:36 AM:The off duty officer was beaten severly. His skull was bashed and
split open, has been stapled shut.
He is not doing well.
Has anyone heard of a rap sheet on
the person that was shot yet?
Let's hear the facts, they will come,
then we can truely look to see fault.
It's sad, but what would have hapened
had this been an unarmed person.
Your neighbor, your friend, a relative.

Kessie wrote on Mar 10, 2008 8:46 AM:First of all I would like to send my thoughts and prayers to the family of this husband, father, son. Whoever he was. I also can tell you this, they need to have a lot of questions answered before anyone passes judgement. And shame on the ones who have passed judgement. One of the question I would like to see answered is: This was an off duty police officer. Was he drinking at the time of the shooting? So as you can see we need to wait to find out what those answers might be. There is a lot of drinking at this event.. Questions, Questions, Question.....

Nick wrote on Mar 10, 2008 9:35 AM:I can't believe how many ignorant people we have on these blogs. There is literally "no" info in this article, yet everyone is jumping to conclusions and bashing on the officer who discharged his weapon. How about you all wait until we get the real skinny before playing the blame game. All those blaming the cop, I wonder what you would have done if it was "YOU" getting the crap kicked out of. Oh yeah, your all such stand up peopel that you would just lay there and take it. Cowardly words from cowardly people.

bad cop? wrote on Mar 10, 2008 9:41 AM:I doubt it, as anyone should know that the officer and any of the witnesses are being told not to say anything. Not as a cover up, but to proctect the innocence of the other victims involved while the investigation is on-going. As far as posters here guessing or speculating what happend it's sad to see everyone call the deceased a victim with out truely knowing the facts. It is very sad that someone had died! As the news started to report this incident the first channels to report this only reported the girlfriend & family side of things, as the reports came out more last night your finding out that their is a lot more to this and that the off duty cop was getting the crap kicked out of him. Last night reports also stated that the actual shooting happend an hour after the initial incident inside the restaurant / bar. So what happend? the cop after an hour decides to hunt these people down, I don't think so. Sounds like they waited for the cop to come outside and took matters in their own hands. As more evidence is reported I think we will see more news reports showing the true incident... It will be interesting to see the news reports this evening or in the comming days compaired to what they (news)intially reported from March 8th.

Rob wrote on Mar 10, 2008 10:04 AM:This is why it is best to suck it up and walk away. Too many people are taking lives just to show they are a big man with a gun. You can't just have a fair fist fight anymore.

In AWWWWW wrote on Mar 10, 2008 10:24 AM:I would like to send my condolences to the familes of the injured parties involved in this incident. After reading the many posting regarding this tragedy I am in awe that everyone bad mouths the police as if they are suppose to be everywhere and do everything. It is up to us as individuals to take responsibility for ourselves, to not put ourselves in unsafe situations or surroundings. The mention of bars being crowded and open and that the situation is alcohol related again brings me to finding blame and reason for the situation. We live in a controled enviroment where laws are generated because people in society cannot think for themselves or take responsibility for there own actions. This is not the first time that the Temecula Rod run has had something like this happen. I attended this run over 10 years ago where a group of punkers decided to tear the town up at the closing of the run and we were all told to leave the area immediately while the police were everywhere and helicopters flying over head. Needless to say I have never attended this event again, becuase it puts myself and others in danger, why would I go there? Taking responsibility for my own actions instead of looking to someone else to blame for subjecting myself to an overcrowed area full of who knows who. With growth comes crime, short tempers and crowds and yes this area has changed and not for the better I would say. When I moved here 30 years ago I could leave my house unlocked and my keys in my vehicle but those days are gone so I as an individual took the responsibility to secure my surroundings without blaming or expecting someone else to do that for me. Our police departments are more concerned regarding crimes that generate revenue. I have found in attending the public beach in Lake Elsinore that it is open for anything that those that come to it for a family outting would like to do. Although there are police patrol boats on the water the over crowded beach is open to drinking, various types of loud music and within a moments notice could turn into something very ugly with all the ethinic groups that over crowd it during the Summer. Again, I choose not to put myself into a potentially dangerous situation. These are ugly times and it will get worse as the local Governments focus more on tax base revenues then the safety of the people that move into these once unpopulated safe communities. Be safe, protect your love ones and stop looking for others to do it for you because it just isn't going to happen. As over populated as we are the Police department is as overwhelmed.

Facts wrote on Mar 10, 2008 10:39 AM:Fact #1, we don't have media or local news coverage for this area because if we actually knew the crime that went on we'd all be scared.
Fact#2, the police are above the law.

Allen wrote on Mar 10, 2008 10:46 AM:The cop needs to be assumed innocent unless evidence proves otherwise. It is easy to pick on the cops, it is more difficult to just admit Temecula is declining and that bad people are all around us. Point is - people need to start to take responsibility for the world around them and stop making the police be their nanny.

DJ wrote on Mar 10, 2008 11:21 AM:To the Murrieta resident who wants to call in the FBI: I guess because you watched the news and read the paper you know everything about this right! Im sure the guys kicking the crap out of the officer had babies in their hands and children playing at their side when it occurred...They are probably model citizens right! And because an officer is involved you are convinced a cover-up will occur...You live in a media sheltered world and I feel sorry for you. What about the officer's family, you dont seem to care about them do you! I hope you are never in a similar situation as the officer was in, or maybe I do, it might wake you up from your sheltered life.

re: facts wrote on Mar 10, 2008 11:24 AM:Fact #3, you need the police because you are "scared".

Fact #4, your facts suck!

facts wrote on Mar 10, 2008 11:51 AM:To re:facts
Please explain to me why south riverside county,the fastest growing county in southern california does not have any news coverage? Also please explain to me why only the deadly crimes for our area ever reach the drive by news channels of LA?

more info wrote on Mar 10, 2008 12:01 PM:Why won't you put up my post regarding more information about Shaun Vilan? Just wondering. It seems contextually relevant.

PL not posted wrote on Mar 10, 2008 3:10 PM:I sent in two postings and this site has not posted either-is this paper censoring everything that comes in so that people won't hear all of the accounts only the ones you choose for your readers? Your readers will never hear about what happened if you censor free speech-maybe this site favors only one side?

The69bgd wrote on Mar 10, 2008 4:03 PM:i agree with PL.....My posting are censored...c--p free press

google wrote on Mar 10, 2008 4:43 PM:I don't know if me previous post was just too long for NCT to post or ?. Anyways, just google: people v. vilan

To see Vilan's previous case.

to Sharon P. wrote on Mar 10, 2008 7:14 PM:My daughter was also in the play. I parked north of the incident on Front and left with her at 9:30. The theatre is just behind the Bank of Mexican Food. It's more than disturbing that my 10 yo and a hundred or more (cast and audience) children were in such close proximity.

ec wrote on Mar 10, 2008 7:14 PM:People who bash and exagerate that old town is becoming such an alcohol town! HELLO!!!! I have lived here for 20 years, I came from LA, and we used to be able to carry a cup of beer while enjoying the rod run. There was always alcohol, now it is ONLY in the restaurants! There are restaurants in every town with alcohol. It's the poor choices stupid people make while drinking!!!! Don't bash this town. You are probably one of the people who do not even live here anyway. This awful tradgedy that took place was with who? hmmmmm ... people who live ELSEWHERE!!!!!!!!

Mine also censored wrote on Mar 10, 2008 8:29 PM:so much for the truth about people getting out there...If my post was not censored people would know what kind of person this so called victim was!

I got censored also wrote on Mar 10, 2008 8:54 PM:My nephew was there and saw everything, i typed it out for all to read but nctimes is not allowing it. hmmmm.....

To Google wrote on Mar 10, 2008 8:55 PM:I read the findings in People v.Vilan. Sounds like Mr. Vilan had a troubled past. However, (I'm sure most readers will not agree with my comments) Mr. Vilan served his debt to society and did his prison time. But in all fairness, his past should not be up for speculation or used to judge him for this incident.

I'm not sure why you felt it necessary to dredge up a dead man's past? Are you trying to convict a dead man? Does his past have anything to do with his death?
It sounds like to me, in the past 48 hours, you've investigated and determinded who's at fault. Interesting...

Please publish your name and let us google you and find your skeltons.

Past does tell wrote on Mar 10, 2008 10:03 PM:He was on parole for violent acts. A persons past does have a lot to do with it...

Mary/Murrieta wrote on Mar 10, 2008 10:07 PM:JK, please keep us informed. I know police protect their own. Because they are the "law" we cannot question them. I hope to hear both sides of the story. No where did I read the police were polite to the family.

concerned wrote on Mar 10, 2008 10:11 PM:I know the family of the man that was killed. I also have a family member that is a law officer and after reading all blogs listed here it is distrubing to me that everyone is in judgement of either party without knowing what really happened. I would agree that the officer has every right to carry a fire arm however attending an event where they were or could possibly be drinking the fire arm should have been left at home. I would also agree that if there was a fight the men should have not been beating on the officer. This is what we have law enforcement for. I find it hard to believe that there is much hate in the world that everyone is so ready to point fingers instead of being concerned with the familys of both partys involved. We should have compasion. Whomever is at fault here justice will be served either by law or Karma.

no need for a gun wrote on Mar 10, 2008 10:50 PM:Fists cause bleeding but very rarely death.

Firearms almost always cause death.

Why the hell do we allow off duty officers to carry firearms? So they can feel like a big man/woman? This is ridiculous.

No one needed to die and were it any other person licensed to carry a weapon they would have been locked up long ago.

no free press wrote on Mar 10, 2008 11:01 PM:why are the links to this guys prior crimes not posted? or reported in the paper? ...

rench wrote on Mar 10, 2008 11:41 PM:Whatever happened AFTER the Rod Run is not the doing of anyone involved in the Rod Run itself. This incident happened 3 1/2 hours AFTER the Rod Run was over. People need to take resposibility for their own actions, and stop blaming an event in Old Town for the tragedy that occured. I worked security at the Rod Run, and any dangerous or potentially dangerous activity was reported immediately to the police at the event by 2-way radio. Our security team was in contact constantly with the police on scene at the Rod Run. There were NO events during the Rod Run's events Friday or Saturday that were worthy of any emergency response. The police presence at the Rod Run was far greater than I have seen in the past. I thank the Temecula Police Department and the Riverside County Police Department for their help. They were VERY responsive to our needs, and did everything they could to make this event run without a problem. Any responsibility for events that happened after the Rod Run lie with the parties involved, and should come under the heading of "PERSONAL RESPOSIBILITY", something that we all may have forgotten in this "blame everyone but me" world we now live in. What a shame!

To : no need for a gun wrote on Mar 10, 2008 11:49 PM:Read what the mother of one of Vilan's previous victims had to say. Google " People V. Vilan"

pink mist in the air wrote on Mar 11, 2008 12:09 AM:Guess what? When a group of guys decide to dogpile an individual, this is the possible outcome. If he was in fact on the ground getting his head kicked in by a group, then things went just the way they should have, regardless of what his day job is. The only sad part about this story is that people witnessing this incident didn't intervene prior to it getting ugly. The sad fact is, there are a lot of cowards roaming the streets that just won't get involved in any physical altercation, regardless of the circumstances. Even though they know they should, they instead stand there in silence. That leaves the predators to behave as they wish, where they wish. As long as it was justified, it's cheaper to bury em', than house em'. You bleeding hearts are a joke.

to: wrote on Mar 11, 2008 12:19 AM:I understand the meaning of serving your debt to society. However a persons past has relevance in most all cases. We also need to look into the officers past conduct as that too should have relevance. An officer should not be able to carry a firearm and consume anything that might impair judgment.

moonnut wrote on Mar 11, 2008 12:40 AM:i new Vilan and he was a good man.what ever he did in the past he paid the price for it. i know he walked the other way when it came to geting to trouble sence he been out of jail .
he never ever wanted to go back.

so what ever happend i have to beleave that he did not cause it. or stuck around to get in to a fight with any one excpecily with his son there.
this is something i truly beleave.

Open Minded wrote on Mar 11, 2008 10:15 AM:Some of these posts are just amazing! First off, you people who are sticking up for Vilan and stating "his past shouldn't come into play," but I bet if the off-duty Cop had a history of brutality you would be all over it. The "LA Times" is stating (for what it's worth. It's still media)that Vilan had a criminal record and the Cop has a good record in 10 years of service. If you want to speculate then why not speculate in the right direction. To "no need for a gun," talk about ignorant. First off you obviously have never heard stories where off duty Cops have saved lives by intervening in crimes in progress (off duty, their free time) and saved lives. Should they leave their guns at home and just watch people get victimized, after all they are off duty why should they care. The problem is they do care that's why most of them are Cops. There are lots of bad people in proffessions, but no one is held to a higher standard like Cops. In this case he appears to be the victim and appears to be a good Cop. Let it be until it is proven otherwise. I'm not necessarily saying Vilan deserved to die, but such are the consequences when it appears you victimize someone who has the tools to protect himself. If the off duty Cop had been a civilian with a martial arts background and he killed Vilan with his hands none of you would care. You defend yourself and others with the tools with which you are trained. As far as drinking, It hasn't been reported the cop was drunk! Why can't he drink as long as it's responsibly. Do responsible drinkers leave their cars at home. Off Soap Box!

Diana wrote on Mar 11, 2008 11:00 AM:I want you to no that I am the mother of a police officer. If that officer was drinking??? and carrying a weapon, than it is no different that getting behind the wheel of a car. Police Officers are NOT above the law.

Hope wrote on Mar 11, 2008 11:08 AM:As a parent I believe children want to respect authority. As an adult, I know I personally want to respect authority. Children question everything, especially teenagers. Children that are raised in homes where when questions of authority are asked, are given healthy answers become good citizens.

It's difficult in Temecula, and all around California..and maybe other states to give my children healthy answers as to why police officers don't have to follow their own rules. ie, on a weekly basis my children see officers running stop lights without turning on their overhead lights, or parked where other cars are not allowed to park to try to catch people running stop signs or speeding. I want my children to respect our laws. I want my children to become good citizens. But it makes a mother cry when a child tells you they want to be an officer so they won't have to follow all the rules.

I'm terribly sorry this happen in my home town, and to any of these people. I'm sick to see my child questioning at the age of 14 that the officer could have been out of line...but I completely understand.
The fall of our society is so often pointed to single parent homes...where there is no father figure, or the father figure is a bad roll model, but no one seems to be pointing toward the other roll models in society...or the brotherhood that protects them.

I hope to hear that Temecula PD actually gave the officer a breathalyzer test. I'm sure at the point of time at which they arrived that he did not seem drunk, adrenaline does that to people. Even if they did it while he was getting stitches in his head, while the other people where making their statements, at first comment the officers should have taken a "it's possible" stance an asked that he blow for them. I just want to have faith in our authority figures.

RE: Open Minded wrote on Mar 11, 2008 11:52 AM:My applogies if we seem ingonant, however...
You can look this up yourself. An office can not marry a person that owns a liquor license for fear of impropriety. It's not just a rule in some police departments, it's part of the ABC code. It doesn't seem far fetched that an officer should not be allowed to drink while carring his weapon. If he/she can't marry the person of his/her choice in society...why would he have the right to drink publicly?

And while it's true about Vilans past...looked it up myself, and by the way it was in Riverside County, it's also true that the brotherhood helps maintain that "good record" of service.

Don't get me wrong, I want to have faith in authority. I want to believe that the PD questioned his sobriety even if he appeared sober, adrenaline does that to a person. I would think at first sign from the witnesses that he had been drinking that a test would have been performed, just to prove he he was above approach of impropriety.

I will tell you though as a parent in Temecula, it's tough to answer the questions of authority from your teenagers when officers don't even follow normal traffic laws set for their own protection, ie blowing through stop signs without their overhead lights on, or parking on side walks or medians to try to catch traffic violations.

Bad roll models, parents included, are part of the downfall of the young adults today, which wittnessed it their entire youth. Hopefull, you'll never have a child tell you that they want to be a "Cop" so they too can cop-out on the rules. Someone needs to push that they "Cop-up" to their roll of higher standards.

It's not about being on a Soap Box...it's about our future as a healthy society, sorry if that seems to be something we should ignore.

Ignore = Igornace

Open Minded wrote on Mar 11, 2008 5:01 PM:You people just don't get it. If your children only want to be Cops so they can break the rules, then I surely hope you don't let them, because law enforcement doesn't need them.

What you fail to realize is my whole argument is concerning why so many of you are quick to assume the Cop was wrong. Not many are assuming Vilan is wrong, when it has already been shown that he has a history of drinking and getting into altercations. Do you feel sorry for him because he lost this one.

Where is the sympathy for the Cop who was trying to have a good time with his family and now he has to live with this.

Do you people really think Cops enjoy killing people. If you do then you are beyond reasoning.

There is a saying, people want Cops to go out and protect them and do their job, but they do want to hear about how it's done or what it takes, but the second they hear about it then they are quick to act like they were shocked.

I would like to see how any of you would react if you or a family member was being victimized and an off duty Cop (who had a couple of drinks, but was legally sober) chose not to get involved.

Don't get me wrong, I'm speaking hypathetically because I don't know anymore about his sobriety than the rest of you.

You want to see a healthy society fall apart. Keep scrutinizing law enforcement to the point that no one wants to do the job. I can only hope that I will not be alive to see it go that far, but that is where society is headed.

I wonder how many of you would discourage your kids from becoming rich athletes or TV/Movie stars, talk about acting like your above the law.

Like I have said, Cops are held to a higher standard and the media is all over it because it shocks the concious and most of you just swallow it.

If Cops are so crooked or bad, then don't call them the next time you need help, "because they can't be trusted," and don't use the excuse you call them because that's what they get paid for. They get descent wages if their single, but no to raise a family. They don't get paid enough to be viewed through a microscope 24/7 by ignorant people who are quick to judge.

TruCitizen wrote on Mar 11, 2008 7:16 PM:What is wrong with all of you? It is completely absurd to me that no one brought up the fact that a human being was being beat down and no one jumped in to help. ESPECIALLY after the man identified himself as a police officer. Yes this world is a horrible place, but not because the "victim" was shot by the police officer and not because the police officer was being brutally beaten. It's because of all of the selfish spectators standing by not wanting to help. How very sad and shameful. And to those of you that have such a bad opinion of police officers just remember that feeling when you need help...

Daren wrote on Mar 11, 2008 9:16 PM:I was at "The Bank of Mexico" restaurant that night with my two boys (ages 5 & 7, there were children there). The Rod Run had been over for some time and the streets were quiet. We even parked up close in the first spot diagonally across the intersection. There were not drunks wandering and partying in the streets.
We had arrived about 5 minutes before the shooting and had been seated for only a few minutes. We walked past a bit of a scuffle on the way in but it was only a little pushing and arguing at the time. We sat inside by the windows on Front Street. The place was full of diners enjoying there meals. One of the employees ran in from the back and yelled for everyone to get on the floor. Most of us didn't even know why, then we gathered that there had been gunfire outside.
The police showed up first, then the Fire Department followed by ambulances. Response was very quick as we were only on the floor a short time before the police showed up and we got up to our seats. I for one was happy to see them and didn't give a damn whether they were police or sheriff.
I spent much of my time trying to maintain some resemblence of order for my boys. Fortunatly for my boys most of the incident had been around the corner at the patio.
The restaraunt was nice enough to still take our order and serve us some food so we didn't have to leave in the middle of the mayhem.
After a short time a young boy (about the age of 7) was carried in by a man. He was crying uncontrolably. The man carrying him said the boy's dad had just been shot and died, and that the boy had seen it.
By the time we left many of the emergency responders had left, it seemed that most of downtown was taped off.
There was a lot of crying on the streets.

I don't know who started it or why.
I know there was a young boy involved.
I know the Police, Fire and Ambulance crews involved were fast and effecient.
I know the restaurant crew was very considerate to my situation.

Thank you all very much.

pookie wrote on Mar 11, 2008 11:59 PM:what?

Roberto1 wrote on Mar 12, 2008 12:37 AM:To open minded...maybe you should try thinking before you open your pie-hole...We who work in private enterprise are the taxpayers who demand services received and services rendered for our hard earned tax dollars. If you think for a moment that we will kiss a corrupt systems butt and not demand service and accountibility, you must be smoking crack...we pay to much and are sadly mistaken. My spin is this Officer was not at completly at fault but he in my opinion, bears some responsibility for his action and should be held accountable for that part once the investigation is completed...no more coverups

Bob wrote on Mar 12, 2008 12:16 PM:I looked up the criminal history and case notes on the victim, Shaun Vilan. He was no angel. Did he deserve to die Saturday? That's up to an investigative team, and perhaps a judge and jury. The articles I've read all talk about how he was trying to turn his life around, but it's funny how alcohol can turn Dr. Jeckyll into Mr. Hyde.
Take the time to read the first 'google' entry that appears when you search for "People Vs. Vilan" This guy had some serious issues, and was set-off very easily, and without provocation. Just my observation. I'm sure I'll get 'flamed' by his friends and family. Oh, and as a side note, that officer has to live with the fact that he took another person's life for the rest of his days. That's not at all an easy thing to live with, even if you did it to save your own life. Think about that for a moment before you prosecute the officer without knowing all the facts.

esteban wrote on Mar 13, 2008 8:55 AM:Hope...with the way you think, you are in no shape to raise kids. I feel sorry for them.

"Victim"...HA! wrote on Mar 14, 2008 4:05 PM:Ok, I did not read through the entire thread because it was just too much but I did read most of it and the one thing I did not see mentioned is the fact that the "victim" spent most of his son's life behind bars for attempted murder. How do I know? I know the family and this guy waqs scum and we all said it was only a matter of time before he attacked the wrong person.

Preston L. wrote on Mar 15, 2008 3:28 PM:Sacramento County has had several communities incorporate into cities. They often lack the money to buy police cars, build buildings, establish training academies and since the local sheriff has already been policing the area, the new city just contracts out police services to the sheriff until they can form their own police department. Cars & uniforms often have the new city's name on them, the "chief" is usually a county sheriff's captain who oversaw the area previously. The good part is the so-called city police/chief already know the area and the beat and can provide great protection until the new city can form it's own department.

Reality wrote on Mar 15, 2008 6:05 PM:Somebody on here mentioned something about the ODPO calling for help on his cell phone, which we know if he was being beaten by a number of people this is not realistic but what I am wondering is there is no mention of any 911 calls. It seems in most cases that people will not get involved by breaking up a fight but they sure have video cameras and cell phones ready to go. So were there any 911 calls and if there were why are they not being released????? They could shed some more light on the subject.