Oh I see wrote on Mar 18, 2008 3:55 PM:when they captured our soliders and tied them to the back of trucks and dragged them on the ground until they died, that was ok. Dragging till dead ok, waterboarding HECK NO! I am seeing double standards here by our government. Who does our government actually work for, hmmmm?

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Mar 18, 2008 4:36 PM:To think that our ancestors, this county's forefathers, fled a government of opprssion and persecution.

Mom of A Marine wrote on Mar 18, 2008 5:08 PM:Where is the rest of this story...Were these detainees insurgents that were captured and disarmed and then heavy fighting ensued? Did the insurgents try to flee and join in the heavy fighting against these Marines? I hope it is not NCIS that is investigationg this again. Geeesh...enough is enough. Where is the explanation as to the conditions in Fallujah in 2004? You see, the press ONLY give you what they want you to hear...it's never the WHOLE story!

What?! wrote on Mar 18, 2008 5:28 PM:We send young men (and women) to the Middle East to kill ... and then we prosecute them for doing so. Hypocrisy at its finest. Thank you, George Bush! May you rest in H#$%!

Mom of A Marine wrote on Mar 18, 2008 6:38 PM:Yep...NCIS again...go figure.

Chris wrote on Mar 18, 2008 8:45 PM:I am glad to see that the lives of the Iraqis don't mean anything to these military supporters but they support the procecution of non-Americans to the fullest. There is a word for that.

To Chris wrote on Mar 18, 2008 9:32 PM:No one said the lives of Iraqis don't mean anything. You have to ask...why were these men detained?? Probably because they were insurgents fighting in the middle of this fight. And I will support our military over insurgents any day of the year!! There are words for alot of things. These MARINES put their lives on the line for US! For these blogger that bash them and cheer at their prosecutions...The word I would use...they would not print!

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Mar 18, 2008 11:45 PM:Chris understands full well that the men killed were the enemy. Chris just doesn't care. His and TIGMother's bleeding heart routine consists of sympathy for the Iraqis. Problem is, he nor TIGMother know whether or not they were Syrian or Saudi or where they came from, and neither one of them could care less. OUR Marines are tortured and killed, and Chris and his bleeding heart friends whine about the death of the enemy. It doesn't matter where the deceased were from. The fact is they were fighting our Marines. THAT equates to the enemy!!! Dead enemy equates to one big Celebration!!!

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Mar 19, 2008 12:01 AM:Rumsfeld may not have handled the war the way he should have but the man knew the enemy. August 29, 2006 (AP) he warned about the success of terrorist groups in "manipulating the media to "influence Westerners". The irony is that the media reporting it has been too stupid to comprehend it or had its own agenda. He talked about how clever the enemy is (Islamic exremist groups) in trying to undermine Western support for the war on terror. He said, "They can lie with impunity, while U.S. troops are held to a high standard of conduct." "The enemy lies constantly - almost totally without consequence." He said, "While some argue for tossing in the towel, the enemy is waiting for us to do mjust that." SO, for bloggers like Chris, I guess you're waiting also, correct?

xnavy wrote on Mar 19, 2008 5:10 AM:I hope they kept the recording of the commanding officer saying "What? You mean the prisoners are still alive?" when he was ordering them to go help another platoon that was under heavy fire and in danger of being overrun. But they probably won't mention that.

AWTOOTOOBAD wrote on Mar 19, 2008 9:59 AM:Marines need to understand that there is a time, place and audience for war stories. Prisoner's; if you take them then you protect them. For the record and the staff writer; the fight for Fallujah started in April, ergo, Fallujah I. Rummy screwed this up from the get go.

Pieter wrote on Mar 19, 2008 10:11 AM:Maybe we should consider prosecuting those who killed all those japanese and german soldiers and civillians. We could tear down the Iwo Jima monument and erect something to honor those 19 heroes that gave their lives on 9/11 to bring down the big satan, we can ask the Saudi government to sponsor the project. He, even better, why not have the families of those four insurgents my stepson killed in Iraq sue us for damages before they blew him up.

Chris wrote on Mar 19, 2008 10:54 AM:As for "to Chris" and "AW4" you response is bunk. You will say anything to justify unlawfull behavior. The excuse that they are the enemy is just another excuse. Even when the people killed are children you make excusses. Apparently this Marine is thought to have done something illegal but you don't care about that. As I have said before the lives of the Iraqis mean nothing to you so don't give me all that rot about the ENEMY. Of course when an Iraqi kills one of our soldiers you immediatly want them executed. But that Iraqi was just killing an ENEMY. I fully understand where you are comming from. We Americans can do what we want and if that includes killing women and children or a detainee that is no threat then so be it. So just spare me all the rot of you sorry excusses. And as for xnavy quit trying to insult my intelegence by bringing up some false scenario of what happened. I just love it when people bring up scenarios that have nothing to do with this case.

Chris wrote on Mar 19, 2008 12:29 PM:Concerning the comments made by "to Chris and AW4. Just spare me all this stuff about the ENEMY. The fact is that time and again I have seen nothing but excusses for our military even if it involves killing women and children in cold blood. Of course your wrath towards the Iraqis who have killed the invaders of their country knows no end. But after all we are Americans and we make the rules. So why don't you just say so and quit trying to come of with some minusha in trying to justfy what our military does. Now as far as xnavy is concerned his scenarion has nothing to do with this case. I just love how these military supporters come of with these fancifull stories in order to justify our military.

DESERT BUG wrote on Mar 19, 2008 1:42 PM:I used to be amazed at the lynch mob mentality of some people, but I'm not any more. Here we have bloggers holding their own little trial and finding Sgt Weemer guilty beyond a reasonable doubt of murder. Isn't that sweet? Hey, in this country we PRESUME an accused to be innocent until conviction in a court of law. Constitutional Rights 101. Like all the rest of these politically motivated, witch hunting persecutions of our military, the real facts are distorted and made murky and recast to arrive at a predetermined conclusion. So Sgt Weemer had these guys in cuffs and just marched them out and shot them in cold blood, huh? Hey, didn't Murtha use those words, "cold blood?" This is all so outrageous, that words alone do not suffice. If George Bush has an ounce of decency in him he will do the right thing in these last days of his presidency by dismissing all of these preposterous charges and granting an unconditional pardon to any service person who has been so wrongly convicted of a crime for something they did in the heat of combat. And President Bush, Larry Hutchins should be pardon #1.

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Mar 19, 2008 3:29 PM:To AWTOOTOOBAD: For the record; This article is about the "second" battle, November, 2004. As for the ignorant remark about our Marines protecting prisoners; please take a trip to Iraq and Afghanistan and tell it to the enemy. You Do know who the enemy is? You might mention to them that WE don't behead prisoners. Put in a good word, if you will.

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Mar 19, 2008 3:35 PM:To Chris: Just go over there and set up shop will you and leave us over here to defend against the enemy's BS propaganda, since you certainly won't. Put your allegiance where your mouth is.

It ain`t right wrote on Mar 19, 2008 5:52 PM:George 6 letters Walker 6 letters Bushjr 6 letters ? He will never be able to wash the bloodstains off of his hands. Bush Sr. advised him NOT to attack Iraq. What have we gained spending 1 trillion American dollars on on a culture that refuses to change from their stupid religious ways. I was at the Boardwalk in PB recently & a serviceman walked by with his arm recently lost in Iraq. It was one of the saddest things I`ve seen. Next time we attack lets stick to air raids only. War is hell & we shouldn`t judge this kid cause we weren`t there

AWTOOTOOBAD wrote on Mar 19, 2008 6:52 PM:To AW4cryinoutloud. Been there, done that, son's been there done that twice, Dad was there did that, Grandpa was there and did that. The only ignorant remarks are by those who only make comments on things they have never done.

AW4cryinoutlod wrote on Mar 19, 2008 9:04 PM:To AWTOOTOOBAD: If you've been there, done that, then how did you miss the FACT that dead-checks are taught and sanctioned by the Army and Marine Corps. How did you miss the FACT that what was allowed, up until the mess at Abu Ghraib, is now called a war crime? It would have been nice if the Senior Commanders had informed these Marines they were going to screw them over eventually to cover their own butts for failed leadership. You've been out too long. AW4.

Amee wrote on Mar 20, 2008 1:26 AM:I know one of the guys Ryan. He really is a stand up guy, he was always so nice and level headed and smart. being in the war can change people. I have an ex who was in fullujah, and he is a completly diferent guy.. Everything is different the way he talks walks, looks at people. I don't know I just all sucks.

AWTOOTOOBAD wrote on Mar 20, 2008 6:44 AM:I missed nothing. As I stated, been there, done that. Also, Marines need to keep their mouths shut and know who they are talking to. Once someone tells anyone, particularly a law enforcement agency about murder, that agency is bound by law to investigate.

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Mar 20, 2008 10:18 AM:To AWTOOTOOBAD: I'm beginning to doubt that you,ve been there, done that because you surely could not have missed the Fact that no one can tell which 'Iraqi' is or is not an insurgent, or the Fact that they lie through their teeth; so when you say when "someone" tells anyone about murder, the "someone" to whom you refer were bloomin'insurgent tribal members. NCIS was only bound by law to investigate because a CO requested it. How intelligent can that CO be if he takes the word of insurgent tribal members? Since you've been there, done that, you should Know That!

DESERT BUG wrote on Mar 20, 2008 10:26 AM:President Bush: You pardoned Cheyney's crony, Scooter Libby, so don't you think by comparison, that the Marines who have been wrongly convicted are entitled to at least the same?? Yeah, in Bill Clinton's last days, he pardoned scads of shady characters. These Marines are not shady characters, they are heroes and have gone through double hell ~ combat in hell and then being convicted of something they did in the heat of combat. This has got to be the most gross miscarriage of justice in a long time.

DESERT BUG wrote on Mar 20, 2008 11:26 AM:TO AWTOOTOOBAD: Your remarks imply that Sgt Weemer took some Iraqi's prisoner so that they were defenseless and then killed them. You don't know that. You pose as an expert because you may have "been there done that." And how do you know what AW4 experiences have been? You don't know that either. It seems you don't know much of anything, except how play into the hands of the enemy. Grow up and get real whoever you are, AWTOO.

TIGMOTHER wrote on Mar 20, 2008 3:52 PM:Tigmother must take Desert Bug to task for the bug's pedantic sophistry. But of course dear bug, Tigmother and all true patriots know well the intricacies of the Constitution and the UCMJ. Indeed, indeed. Dear bug, do you not comprehend that this forum is not a trial of the accused? Tigmother's venture into the blogosphere, nor AWTOO's either, damage the defendant not, fine bug. Indeed.

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Mar 20, 2008 9:46 PM:Well, now I've read it all. TIGMOTHER refers to DESERTBUG in terms best used to describe TIGMOTHER'S own odious persona. He professes to know the intricacies of the Constitution, which is questionable. He spends more time smothering readers with his childish, self-aggrandizing BS routine than contributing anything more than insults to those of us who stand by our own countrymen. His words of ignorance have no meaning for us and will assuredly cause no change in our beliefs. He alienates himself from anyone true to their own beliefs. In other words, simply put, he's nothing more than a pain in the posterior.

AWTOOTOOBAD wrote on Mar 21, 2008 9:05 AM:DB, the term prisoner by it's very definition implies in custody; disarmed and defenseless. AW4 in previous comments on other issues reveals a no military experience. The key issue as Tigmother so correctly describes is; if you admit to murderous acts and imply others. You and those you have implicated will be, and rightly so, imvestigated. If, as in the cases of the enlisted Haditha defendents, events and evidence show adherence to the ROE and LOW then the truth will out and they will be found innocent. I have not claimed to be an "expert"; just "been there, done that".

DESERT BUG wrote on Mar 21, 2008 2:11 PM:Not to be churlish, but from now on I will ignore the ignorant and taunting comments of Tigmother. This individual is obviously not serious and likes to get a rise out of those who are serious. As for AWTOO's comeback, it's just a repeat of what he's already said. He just doesn't get it, and frankly who gives a hoot? "Neither Weemer nor Nelson is in custody and each must report for daily duty at the Camp Pendleton, Gibson said." Big, bad murderers and yet they are not in custody? Obviously, those who made that decision can see through this charade and know that those Marines are innocent of any wrongdoing. The article is replete with information that these cases are weaker than weak.

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Mar 21, 2008 5:51 PM:To AWTOOTOOBAD: I tried earlier . Will give it another go. All I said was I think we all know the definition of prisoner and that sinc you and TIG seem to be on the same page you might explain to him that NO one admitted to murderous acts. Initial testimony by Sgt' Hutchins CO and by the lead NCIS agent was that they thought nothing unlawful was suspected. But then, the politically correct CO of Kilo 3/5 testified that due to Haditha in the news, he wanted to "protect the Command, the Corps, and the Marines". Then, he called for the investigation. He seems to have protected himself but forgot about 7 Marines. NCIS' lead agent testified he initially considered Sgt. Hutchins innocent of anything unlawful. Funny how several days of coerced interrogation without presence of counsel will change things. Your buddy TIG should read reports than spending so much time drooling on his keypad while typing trash that comes from zero knowledge. As for Haditha and the troops adherence to Roe's and the Law of War; they were followed. The past Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff had said the troops have the absolute right to defend themselves and that the environment will impact the perception of the threat. The General who devised Warfighting in 1997 said there should be no Zero Defects Mentality when it comes to dealing with mistakes of Junior leaders. You've been there, done that, so you know that Hutchins and Wuterich are Junior leaders. You and TIG are guys. You say you've been there, done that; then why is it that little me, with no military experience, has to explain it to the all-knowing two of you?

Ref wrote on Mar 21, 2008 6:32 PM:Don't like the mocking name of AWTOOTOOBAD in these story forums, he/she is a parent of a probably former military member...strange choice of a post name..but AWTOO makes some valid points and there's no comparison between AWTOO and Tig. Tig revels in Schadenfreude and hates the troops. AWTOO does not - bottom line is whole thing stinks!

TIGMOTHER wrote on Mar 22, 2008 2:23 PM:Tigmother rejoices to know that the bug's rejoinder bag is now empty. Bug, you now by default admit your errors. Very good, bug. As for the tiresome diatribe of AW4, tiny factoids are stiched together in a crazy quilt of half truths, innuendo and spin. Those who seek justice are being "politcally correct", etc. etc. Tigmother has the highest regard for "the troops" and does not revel in anyone's misery. Those who committed war crimes and atrocities created their own misery, not Tigmother. Tigmother has read voluminous records pertinent to the dialogue, including those that show that the P8 ALL either pled guilty to crimes or were convicted of them by a jury of their Marine peers. All of the yammering and distortions by AW4 and its cohorts will NOT change the facts upon which those convictions were based.

AW4cryinoutloud wrote on Mar 23, 2008 5:04 AM:To TIG: Setting your disgusting insults aside, get used to it because the "facts" will continue, the "truth" will continue, the search for justice will continue, the research will continue, and the true friends of all of these young men will continue to stand by them. Would you like to know an added reason aside from the fact that we know of their innocence and believe in them? It's because of those, not unlike yourself, who spew hate and lies to portray these men the way they, in their bottomless pit of low self-esteem, can't even refer to themselves in human terms when they comment. It's because of those who are cowardly and pretend to "not revel in anyone's misery", while drooling all over their keypads as they type their hate filled, juvenile, pathetic third person BS. Now that's a plus for those of us who will never stop defending and helping all Marines and Soldiers in a situation which was perpetrated by the Enemy. GET USED TO IT!!!

TIGMOTHER wrote on Mar 23, 2008 8:43 AM:More pathetic blather from AW4. Tigmother says that those who sympathize with and identify with criminals are of the same ilk. The FACT is that EX Sgt Hutchins was fairly convicted by a jury of his MARINE peers and sentenced to 15 years in prison for his odious crimes. That makes him a criminal, that is: one who has been convicted of crimes. LIVE WITH THAT.

AW4cryinoutlou wrote on Mar 23, 2008 9:41 AM:Thanks TIGMOTHER. I knew you had it in you. What happened to all that phoney superior, confident, attitude? My My, it's the first time you wrote in 3rd person only once. Emotion! You displayed Emotion! And there you were so quietly claiming that YOU, the great all-knowing TIGMOTHER, don't revel in anyone's misery. YOU THRIVE ON IT! AW4 will sign off now and go have a good chortle and chuckle. You made my day. AW4.

What a Trial! wrote on Mar 24, 2008 1:07 AM:How can any of you, defend or prosecute this guy? None of you were there so how can you do that? Just because he was a Marine doesn't mean he is a good honest person. As a former Marine, I know cases were Marine committed murder, arm robberies, theft, auto theft, etc.

In the other hand, just because an Iraqi claimed this and that we should not take his or her word for it without any evidence.

If he is guilty it should be prosecuted. If he is innocence then leave him alone, but DO NOT CONVICT HIM JUST TO PLEASE THE PUBLIC (IRAQI PEOPLE, WAR CRITICS).

SERIOUSLY?!?!? wrote on Mar 25, 2008 5:58 PM:can we be serious here???? we are sending ppl over to do what they signed up to do and they are over there supporting the US of A and they get charged for something they are over there to do?!?! doesnt make since!! and yes the press only are putting out there what they want us to hear!!! JERKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

TYLER wrote on Apr 1, 2008 5:04 PM:chris what gives you the right to say wether or not this marine should have done what he did or shouldnt. You talk like you know everything yet you nothing about this situatuion. this is a man who risked his life for you at war. thats something we do know so take that into consideration and the next time you have an opionon dont state it if it negatory to a person whos fighting for you. you dont know all the detail if any so hold your tongue.