TP wrote on Mar 29, 2008 7:29 PM:STOP USING KIDS!!!

Nicole wrote on Mar 29, 2008 8:27 PM:TP- We were not used at all. This idea was completely autonomous from any teachers, administrators or adult figures. Students conceived the idea and students planned and executed this massive undertaking in only two weeks. No one in attendance today was there against their will.

Andrew wrote on Mar 29, 2008 10:00 PM:Nicole is absolutely correct. The 12k for k12 protest was entirely a student-led and student-organized protest. The founders actually preferred that the protesters used student-made signs instead of the 9th District PTSA "SOS" signs, but not enough student-mades were created for the tremendous turn-out.

BriAnna wrote on Mar 29, 2008 11:48 PM:I confirm what both Nicole and Andrew have said, but I'd also like to mention that, initially, teachers were asked not to attend the protest because it was going to be entirely student-fueled.

Either way, it was amazing and exhilarating. I am so so proud of my school and my community.

TP wrote on Mar 30, 2008 6:47 AM:Since students don't pay taxes, please sit down.

Time to wrote on Mar 30, 2008 7:50 AM:privatize education. Public schools are a failure. Competition is the key.

Teach wrote on Mar 30, 2008 8:36 AM:TP -

Your obvious ignorance and hasty comments are only trumped by your dismissal of kids.

First, kids do pay taxes...ever hear of part time jobs?
Second, many of the marchers were 18, and thankfully will vote and hopefully cancel out your ignorant voice.
Third, the students accomplished something in a very short amount of time that CA government can't in a long duration, and that is get organized and have a voice.

It's just too bad that ... like you won't listen.

TP wrote on Mar 30, 2008 10:02 AM:To Teach: Firstly, the primary source of public education is property tax. These boys are girls don’t pay them. Further, the tax that they pay from their alleged part-time jobs is infinitesimal as they are paying from the bottom end of the tax bracket. Secondly, these boys and girls didn’t offer a solution. Money must be cut from other areas to fund their school. What program/service would they like to cut? I have some ideas, but I would like to hear their ideas. Thirdly, it is well documented that the “youth” don’t get out and vote. This protest sounds like a bunch of bluster. Finally, if these kids love their education so much, then I am sure that when they can vote, they will vote for a candidate that will seal the border as the drain illegals place on the economy is the major reason for these cuts.

Nancy wrote on Mar 30, 2008 11:36 AM:TP is right. Our schools are suffering because of the amount of money our state is having to pay for the needs of illegal aliens.

Without those costs, we would have plenty of money for our schools.

To those that don't know, Westview is slated to lose 40% of its teachers. These are very dynamic teachers that make WV the highest ranked high school in PUSD. Some of the teachers that are cut will be replaced by other teachers in the district that they redistribute.

The teachers on the chopping block are the young dynamic teachers that are the heart and soul of the school. They are the teachers the kids relate to and love!

To TP wrote on Mar 30, 2008 12:47 PM:Again you show your ignorance. It is a federal law that states must educate children of illegal immigrants. The fed is supposed to give the states the money. Therefore, maybe you should vote accordingly.

Reardon wrote on Mar 30, 2008 1:09 PM:California teachers rank first in pay according to the NEA website; the State ranks 27th in spending (census data); and 48th in State competition -- right with Louisiana and Mississippi. Either reduce the spending to the educational ranking, or raise the educational ranking to the level of State spending, but right now we are not getting our money's worth!

Reardon wrote on Mar 30, 2008 1:37 PM:Apparently, math is not being taught in today's schools. The announced "10%" cut was not from the actual budget -- it was from the PROPOSED INCREASED BUDGET! Tha ACTUAL cut is 1.9%, and the announced "pink slips" (of which almost none was actually going to be cut) had the desired effect -- rally the people to accept tax increases. After all, it's "For the children." Well, higher educational standards are "For the children" also -- but apparently no one supports getting us out of the Mississippi league! At least i have seen no rallies for a better education!

TP wrote on Mar 30, 2008 2:05 PM:To TP: Are these kids going to abstain from voting in federal elections? LOL!!!!

sweetchuckd wrote on Mar 30, 2008 4:32 PM:This story made http://detentionslip.org! It's one of the leading sources for breaking crazy stories in public education.

Ashley wrote on Mar 30, 2008 4:45 PM:To TP
Like many before me has said, nobody forced any of the students to participate in the march.

It's true that the students may not contribute substantially to property taxes, but their parents do. These students will, in the future, contribute to the work force that helps pay for the taxes. So don't be so hasty to dismiss us. We are the future of this society and as such will be able to make educated decisions based on the level of education we receive. So unlike the ignorant views you so blatantly express. Additionally, as your future possible leaders, it's in your best interest to support the high level of education that, until recently, has been offered here.

We have as you stated not given any clear solution to the issue, but that is what our educated and elected officials were hired to do. One area to reduce funding to could be the local prisons and jails. Studies have shown that the higher the education level is, the lower the local crime rate is. So essentially, if we keep a good education level, and that in turn lessens the crime rate, why should there be extra funds going to local prisons and jails?

Reardon wrote on Mar 30, 2008 5:11 PM:There is no statutory restriction against ANYONE sending money to schools, and school districts. Go to your parents -- who have your best interest at heart -- and say: "We are the future of America. Within a few weeks, the federal government will send you hundreds of dollars that you were not expecting. Please sign it over to my school." Then go to the neighbors on both sides of your home...please report back on your progress. Please tell the newspaper of your efforts and your results. You will make national news if you save your school teachers, and set a great example for California schools, which will copy your example.

Student wrote on Mar 30, 2008 5:12 PM:No kids were used in this protest. We ran it all.
With so many teachers being cut our states future is at risk. Why not stop spending so much money on prisons??

Reardon wrote on Mar 30, 2008 5:40 PM:Ashley, you are absolutely right that we have too many people in prison, but that is because we have a lot of crime. If education was the answer we would have no crime -- because all K-12 education is available to everyone, even illegal aliens, and it is FREE! If your family will go to court and beg the Court to release the next criminal being sent to prison to your family, YOU can be part of the solution. Organize your friends in school to do the same. Organize! Be a leader! Help solve the cost of prisons by "adopting" a prisoner! (I love it when these blogs become a "teaching moment" because I was a teacher!)

Reardon wrote on Mar 30, 2008 6:16 PM:An article in the March 15 NCTimes reported that we went through this same exercise in March, 2003. The Poway Unified School District sent the same slips to 70 teachers, and 26 administrators. NOT ONE LOST THEIR EMPLOYMENT!

ZERO!

Since there are always new students with graduation, there is no institutional memory. It is not QUITE a scam, people COULD actually get laid off, but nothing like you students think.

Every day, people get laid off from AT&T, Boening, Ford…somehow all of those corporations continue. With 900,000 public school teachers in California, PUSD will survive, even if a couple of teachers actually do get laid off!

To Reardon wrote on Mar 30, 2008 8:33 PM:I have already debunked your stats in previous posts. Go to Education Week and look at the most recent stats. The census data is eight years old. Stop using fuzzy stats.

Reardon wrote on Mar 30, 2008 9:34 PM:To To: Census data is updated annually, and a new census is taken every 10 years. Get a statistical life.

cheri wrote on Mar 30, 2008 10:28 PM:This protest march and rally, a completely student product, from inception to phenomenal conclusion, would make an excellent model for any event planner, and they did it two weeks. There was a single tiny glitch, with the sound system for one performance at the rally. The emcee and other students filled in the time with aplomb, and eventually the show went on anyway, td's and all. If there was anything else that may not have gone exactly as planned none of the participants noticed. These students credit their teachers and the programs at their school as the reason they were able to develop the organizational skills, creativity, ingenuity and leadership they demonstrated in pulling of this successful protest and rally.

They should not "sit down" but continue to stand up and demand to be heard.

BTW,Reardon. Do you have children in PUSD schools? I don't know if anyone actually lost their job in 2003, but as anyone with a child in a PUSD school can testify there were many sometimes drastic, cuts in programs and services, increases in class size etc. Parents did reach into their pockets and write those checks you suggested. They saved the 5th grade band program in an albeit reduced form. I'm sure you're saying Band isn't a basic necessity. In addition to the documented increases in academic success for children who receive music instruction, think about the many citizenship skills students develop working together as part of a band. This experience can't be replicated with private lessons.

Most, if not all, of the schools in the District now have Foundations, funded in great part by parents, that fill in some of the financial gaps created in 2003.

Parents pay "fair share donations" which along with fundraising, cover a significant portion of those activities that some consider superfluous. The ones where students get the opportunity to develop and express that creativity, ingenuity and leadership I mentioned earlier. But these programs need more than money. They need teachers. That's what's on the chopping block now.

Teachers at the middle schools gave up their planning periods to teach elective classes that fell victim to the 2003 cuts. They created before and after school clubs to replace opportunities lost with the cuts. One Principal stepped in and coached the wrestling team, also considered non essential.

Parents, teachers and students have learned not just to make do with less, but how to do more with less. There's no more fat to cut.

Education is more than basic skills. Children need more than basic skills to become the creative caring problem solving leaders our communities need them to be. We can pay the price now, finding other places to cut or pay the price later in less developed citizens who less able to meet the needs of our increasingly demanding society.

Edumacator wrote on Mar 31, 2008 7:59 AM:All i see is sadness, this cut is fine, cuts happen, we need to understand that the state sees San Diego County as a work-horse it can just tax and realistically give little back to.

we're in a recession, and if we want our local economy to thrive we need to secure the future of our economy. With that said...this 12k was a stupid idea.

Protesting this is stupid, unless you can present alternative ideas that are politically viable.

we need solutions not more problems.

I've seen a draft going around for a proposition made by a student, and I'll tell you as a political science aficionado, it's a tight ship and it can work.

i have a copy of it, but it's four pages long and i just don't think that would fit, if the NCT would like to see a copy i can email it for further discussion.

vcguy wrote on Mar 31, 2008 8:26 AM:I guess every time there is a budget cut and people lose their jobs, we need to have their kids picket the company. This would apply to real estate agents, construction workers, engineers, secretaries, car salesmen, etc.

Apparently the kids believe their teacher’s jobs are much more important than their parent’s jobs. If you think for one moment that teachers didn’t have a part in influencing this demonstration, you are naive.

This is California living within its means, get over it and find another job.

mbb wrote on Mar 31, 2008 10:05 AM:I am disgusted with the sarcasm and negativity tossed about here in reference to the amazing actions and accomplishments of these fine young people. The hard work and dedication of the top caliber teachers at Westview and other Poway schools are producing a generation of young people who genuinely value their education. These kids aren't sitting on their butts getting high; they are learning how to organize and lead and inspire others. As the CEO of a company, these are the people I intend to hire someday! Will one protest change the budgeting process? Probably not. But it shows that these teachers are doing the job we hired them to do, and these young people are smart enough to know it. They deserve a standing ovation for their heart and guts.

Dave wrote on Mar 31, 2008 10:25 AM:After 26 years in education it gets a little old watching the same trends occur again and again. A solution to the very real education funding problem in this country : Instead of funding prisons(which do not work) at $35,000 + per inmate which gives them access to health care, the latest technology, as well as a college education (for free) lets send that money to schools who are funded at $4,500-$9,000 per student and btw many don't have health care, or a free college education and use leftover technology. The prisons then get the per student funding to run their prisons. The only requirement is that they cannot release any prisoners, they have to make it work. Sounds like NCLB. Maybe now we should rename it the No Prisoner Left Behind!!

Reardon wrote on Mar 31, 2008 10:34 AM:No, I no longer have children in PUSD, but all of my children attended there and I attended more than 100 school board meetings, acted as a guest lecturer in PUSD, and served on boards in the district.

Yes, music helps children learn -- so does clean air, proper nutrition, clothes that are in keeping with teen style, sufficient sunlight, beautiful art...the question is: If all of these things should be paid for by taxpayers, and the answer is NO! Schools have become all things to all people -- all a parent has to do is pat little Johnny on the rear and push him out the door. The "school" will then transport him, feed him, exercise him, shower him, entertain him, and almost incidentally -- teach him. Schools have done this to increase the number of employees, so that they can hire more administrators – and all so that the Superintendent can make more money. That is why ALL bureaucracies grow – they expand so that those at the top can have more employees. More employees is how all organizations judge the work, and therefore the pay, of their managers.

Meanwhile, check how well the organization is performing their core responsibility once they have diluted their time, energy and money. Google "National Report Card" of the federal government. Can you say, "Hello, Louisiana and Mississippi."

Schools have become the dragon that ate the budget, and SURPRISE, the dragon wants MORE!

to mdd wrote on Mar 31, 2008 1:06 PM:"These kids aren't sitting on their butts getting high..."

Well, not all of them anyway.

vcguy wrote on Mar 31, 2008 1:29 PM:Lots of ordinary citizens lose their jobs during a budget crisis. It’s time teachers realize they are in the same boat as thousands and thousands of fellow Californians. It’s time to find another job like everyone else in your situation.

Try to get a job in the real world where tenure doesn’t amount to a hill of beans.

And one more thing, quit hiding behind your students and tearful parents.

Reardon wrote on Mar 31, 2008 1:43 PM:Dave: If you want support for cutting the money for prisons, you have my undying support. The medical cost, alone, is staggering and there are things you don’t even know. Because many (most?) prisoners have several types of communicable diseases, they are almost under staff doctor’s care – and besides complaining gets them out of their cells for a doctor’s visit – further necessitating additional guards, and a driver! When a prisoner dies, the doctor who was treating that patient is immediately placed on paid suspension while an investigation is done to insure that the death was not the fault of the facility or the doctor. That investigation takes MONTHS! The staff doctor on paid suspension is immediately replaced by a “Contract Doctor” – who is paid 3X what a staff doctor is paid! The system smells to high heaven, but the federal judicial system will step in if money is NOT shoveled to prisons – on the grounds of prisoners’ “federal civil rights.” Apparently, there are no civil rights for students to get a quality education, or the federal judiciary would have taken over California schools long ago.

Right To Learn wrote on Mar 31, 2008 1:54 PM:These students did a tremendous job of organizing this event, but the fight isn't nearly over. Join thousands of students statewide for the next series of actions on April 18.
...

Reardon wrote on Mar 31, 2008 2:46 PM:There is no "Right to Learn" and if there was it would be different from what the students are demanding. Anyone can learn -- education is different from schooling. Many people are well-educated with little schooling, and we all know well-schooled people with no education. All of our Founding Fathers were well educated; most spoke, wrote and read several languages (including Latin, Greek and French)-- and not one of them attended a public school! I just hope the rally is to get the parents and teachers to sign over the $1,200 FREE money they are getting from the federal government in May. That will solve the education budget problem without taking a dime out of anyone's pocket!

Kidz! wrote on Mar 31, 2008 3:16 PM:Save a janitor, can a teacher!

A Question for Reardon wrote on Mar 31, 2008 3:37 PM:"The announced "10%" cut was not from the actual budget -- it was from the PROPOSED INCREASED BUDGET! Tha ACTUAL cut is 1.9%..."

Where did you get the "1.9%" figure?

Thanks.

Student wrote on Mar 31, 2008 4:14 PM:We protested for our own education, which should come first. We'll replace the people who are working to pay taxes for us now someday, and we'd rather not be screwed before then, thanks.
I'm proud to have been part of that protest. Go Poway!

Reardon wrote on Mar 31, 2008 5:19 PM:To Question: I got the number from Richard Rider, San Diego Taxfighters Association, and a columnist for this newspaper. This is a quote from his column in the NC Times (March 20): "...57.6 billion last year to $56.5 billion this year. That is a $1.1 billion cut -- only 1.9 percent. Not 10 percent." I have known Richard for many years, even back when he was a financial manager in real life. I take his numbers as accurate.

Cheapskate Parents wrote on Mar 31, 2008 5:47 PM:These upper middle class parents in Poway should stop being cheapskates and enroll their children in private school. Give up the new BMW and spend the money on your kids. Government schools are notoriously ineffective at educating our children and they tend to act more like indoctrination centers than as legitimate halls of learning. The demise of government schools cannot come quickly enough. Join me in supporting the separation of school and state!

Reardon wrote on Mar 31, 2008 7:18 PM:To Student: I will really be proud of you if you get your parents to sign over their $1,200 free money from the federal government to your school. The easiest adult tax-paying people for you to convince should be your own parents. Go for it! Make us all proud.

cheri wrote on Mar 31, 2008 7:35 PM:learning to play music improves the thinking process. Exactly what schools are supposed to do. public schools are supported by taxpayers so yes they are paying for students to improve their thinking. That's the system.

I'm unclear as to whether the locus of your dissatisfaction and bitterness is folks who you feel are doing a poor job of parenting, teachers who you feel are doing a poor job of teaching, administrators who are paid too much to do to little or the fact that some of your tax dollars are being spent to support something you feel no longer directly benefits you.

What puzzles me most is that you're directing your great displeasure at the students. Surely you see that they've done their job, learning. They were clearly paying attention in Civics class, and understand that is their right and even their responsibility to speak up for what they believe in. Please don't get nit picky and point out that some of them are not yet 18 and don't have these right conveyed upon them yet. The learning is what matters.

Believe me I share your disappointment in those parents I've met who've abdicated responsibility for their kids.
It happens every generation in every state. Cutting the education budget won't rectify that. Most parents are doing the best they can with what they have. I've experienced a few teachers at every level who really are in the wrong profession and absolutely don't know it. Most are again doing the best they can and more with what they have, many are doing truly amazing work. I sense you've had more than one negative experience with administrators in this District. I too have more than one story from personal experience, that would chill you to the bone, from those at school sites all the way to the superintendent's office. I've probably ruined more peoples' day in this District than the flu does most years.
at evey level of administration there are also caring wise folks totally committed to our children, who always do whatever it takes, often outside the 9-5.

It isn't perfect. Don't be so blinded by the imperfections that you don't see all that is good. Saturday's student protest and rally was an example of what should be celebrated.

to Cheri wrote on Mar 31, 2008 8:03 PM:Yes, protest is good, but in this case it's misdirected. The teachers aren't stupid (although they are easlily led) and neither is their union. They get involved in these things because it's to their benefit to do so. And the union will back them all the way since it's in their benefit to so as well.

No, the children are not the problem. The bureacracy is. It gets bigger and bigger through misinformation and deceitful tactics. It's time for people to wake up to the deception and place responsibility where it belongs.

We will all continue to lose until we do.

REARDON: Thank you for the clarification on the 1.9% figure.

cheri wrote on Mar 31, 2008 8:52 PM:It was a student protest. About cuts to the education budget. They took it personally and responded in person. Teachers, unions, "the bureacracy" weren't part of the inception, planning or demonstration. Privatization, Immigration and Taxation weren't the topics. The gov.'s proposal to cut funding in some areas and increase funding to others didn't seem appropriate to them. Plain and simple. So they communicated their feelings in a dynamic yet orderly way. Magnificent not misguided.

Tuck wrote on Mar 31, 2008 9:14 PM:Hey boys are girls, good job. One day you will make fine little sheep. Keep up the good work. BAH

Reardon wrote on Mar 31, 2008 9:41 PM:I have been part of education as a parent, a teacher, a university adjunct professor (6,000 classroom hours teaching computer science, graduate and undergraduate level), and as a writer -- for more than 30 years. I do not know of a SINGLE incident anywhere in America where there has been a student demonstration, or a teacher demonstration, or a teacher strike for ANYTHING except more money! I have never seen a student or teacher demonstration for more academic rigor; for more difficult academic performance testing; for getting out of the academic league with Louisiana and Mississippi; for textbooks written for people who can read; for essay answers to essay questions; for sufficient quiet in the classroom for serious students to study and learn; for getting bad teachers fired (believe me, the students know who they are!); for diminution of emphasis on sports; for more computer labs (check the PUSD computers/student ratio); for…

cheri wrote on Apr 1, 2008 7:53 AM:Obviously you didn't "see" Saturday's demonstration. It was not about "more money." Not once did any of the student speakers ask for MORE anything. You're correct that it also wasn't about any of the things in your list. They didn't gritch and groan about an insufficiency of anything or about anything not being of good enough quality. They expressed gratitude for the education they've received and, as many of them were graduating seniors, they claimed that same level of education for the students that follow them.

So I say BAH and add a big HUMBUG to "Tuck" and the many other commentors who'll find something negative to say about anything, even if they have to twist reality to make it fit.

Andrew wrote on Apr 1, 2008 8:04 AM:Reardon,

Should the state cut funding this year and students be able to convince enough parents to donate their tax breaks back to the schools to offset the current loss of funding, what would you propose next year?

I mean to say, should the recession continue, or should a conservative governor who has already experienced success and limited opposition in cutting funding from education decide to cut some more, what would you recommend students do when there won't be a $1,200 check coming in the mail to their parents?

It is about money, and you're absolutely right that we'd never have gotten this many students together to protest on anything but the subject of money. But it's also about us trying to tell our representatives what we expect from them. We want K-12 Education to be pandered to; not treated as the same as Corrections and Rehabilitation or Health and Human Services on the budget.

I'm not a fan of government involvement in public education. However, with a divided government, there is no chance that the conservatives will privatize it as they hope to. As such, if the citizens have to pay taxes to fund the education of theirs and other citizens' children, that education had better be on par with the private education that we are sacrificing for it.

Cutting the funds will result in teachers losing their jobs and programs being cut in the PUSD solution. That is the administrative solution. If you want to trim the bureaucracy, you can't leave the decision of what is to be cut to the bureaucracy, it will simply hurt the small people working for it.

So as a student, I do not advocate a cut for those reasons. I do not believe a cut administrated from the top-down will eliminate excess. I think that it will simply harm the quality of education while leaving the excesses untouched. I believe that our representatives should uphold an overwhelming voter proposal to fund education to a minimum floor, in the form of Proposition 98. And I believe that bowing out to a simple solution for this year, like teacher pay cuts or parent donations, will simply result in further cuts in the future, as this one is, based on the similar pattern apparent from the 2003 cuts.

Reardon wrote on Apr 1, 2008 12:08 PM:Andrew: California 'education" cannot be further damaged! We are just one point higher than Louisiana, and two points above Mississippi -- I guess we are better than the ABSOLUTE bottom-feeder, The District of Columbia, but I doubt we could even get that low if we cut education spending by half. As to how to reform public education, cut costs, gain huge increased funding to pay good teachers $100,000 a year minimum, this is my plan (And, yes, I know it WILL never HAPPEN):1.) Abolish school-oriented sports, and sell off the HUGE real estate devoted to ball fields and school stadiums. (Fly a private plane over schools, as I have done many times, and look at the amount of land devoted to academics, and the amount devoted to various sports! Land is the single most expensive cost in California education.) 2.) End all "transportation" to and from school, except on a prepaid monthly pass situation. 3.) End all non-academic school activities, i.e. band, P.E. (sell off the gyms – here I would make an exception only for "Speech and Debate”). 4.) Reduce the administrative staff to the ratio of the average of the private schools in the County. 5.) End all printed school book materials, and rely on CD/DVD textbooks alone. 6.) Abolish all school libraries except for CD/DVD/On-line reference material. (There are almost 700 tax-supported libraries in San Diego County!) 7.) Build all schools as multi-story structures with a single plan, without architects, to diminish land use and building costs. When was the last time you saw two multi-story school buildings? 8.) Eliminate “Special Education” classes – theirs is a societal problem, not an educational problem. If you must retain Special Education classes, limit expenditures to 2X per student, and do not mainstream students who hold back regular students. 9.) Test all incoming students at every grade for English proficiency, and segregate those not ready to stay with the class, academically, until they are proficient. 10.) Increase the rigor of the CBEST test for incoming teachers until AT LEAST 10% are PERMANENTLY eliminated. (In Massachusetts, the Caucasian failure rate is 24%, Latino and Black failure rates are twice as high!) 11.) Eliminate tenure: Good teachers don’t need it and bad teachers don’t deserve it. 12.) Eliminate the cafeteria – offer the franchise to competitive bids between Soup Plantation and any competitor. 13.) Eliminate multiple-choice quizzes, and institute essay questions. 14.) Institute school uniforms. 15.) Increase and encourage Charter Schools. 16.) Have a state-subsidized, but diminishing, five-year program to expand Little League, Pop Warner, Youth Soccer, etc., to accommodate community-based sports. 17.) Ours is no longer an agrarian society where children must work the crops – run school 12 months a year. Life runs 12 months a year!. 18) Do not promote students or graduates that fail. The current “Exit Exam” varies according to subject, but much of it is 8th and 9th grade level! 19.) (I am still working on it…)

To Reardon wrote on Apr 1, 2008 2:56 PM:Why you against students supporting their school? And how do you know the founding fathers didn’t go to public school? Parents are selfish if they send their kids to public school because not all kids want to go to private schools and that is a lot of money. Families wont be able to do all the things they enjoy doing. With fewer teachers it will be harder to get a quality education and then become a successful person.

Reardon wrote on Apr 1, 2008 3:33 PM:To To Reardon: Please schedule a consultation with both your English teacher, and your history teacher. If your school has a logician on staff, although they are usually at the university level, they might also help.

To others who may be following this thread: QED!

Reardon wrote on Apr 2, 2008 10:17 AM:Have not seen any reports from "Student," "Sheri" or "Ashley" as to how they are doing at getting their parents to give their "FREE" (unexpected) $1,200 tax-rebate from the federal government, to their school. If every student did this, there would be no need for teacher layoffs, or student protest marches. Are their any reports? If they have been unsuccessful at getting their OWN parents to fork over completely “found money” then those students have learned a valuable lesson.

The Numbers wrote on Apr 2, 2008 10:59 AM:Those of you who think that the budget should be increased without making the administrations and teachers unions more accountable should see the 2007 American Legislative Exchange Council's (ALEC) Education report card. You can Google it. Based on the money we are already spending we should be doing a lot better.

Stop wasting our money, and stop whining about needing more until better results are forthcoming.

Cheri wrote on Apr 2, 2008 11:18 AM:Well "Sheri" must be me... If you'd read my comments with any care you'd have been aware I'm, among other things, a parent not a student. You're perhaps too busy blustering about your credentials, (those who boast are usually not nearly as secure as their boasts imply) ignoring well crafted arguments that your negative attitude isn't sufficient to address and being nasty and condescending, to actually pay attention to or carefully consider what anyone else says. I guess there wasn't that gymnasium you agree would be appropriate to retain, for Speech and Debate, available at any time in your educational career. Computer Science folk aren't, I'm guessing from the quality of your arguments, required to pass a course in Debate and Persuasion. Do adjunct prof's receive the same benefit the rest us that teach at the University level enjoy? One course per term at no charge? If so I suggest that you take advantage of that free opportunity. Others have realized that you are interested in posturing and bellyaching, not discourse, and no longer are responding to you. So as one who's been "forking it over" to foundation at two schools since 2003 as well as to FSD's so my children can participate in all those activities you feel are not part of a good education, I too, bid you Adieu!

Reardon wrote on Apr 2, 2008 5:03 PM:Cheri: I am assuming that you will sign over your $1,200 -- and I thank you for putting your money where your mouth is. I too believe that physical exercise is beneficial -- I just don't think it is "education" that taxpayers should pay for. I did, by the way, takke advantage of the free courses, to get a second graduate degree -- in "education." Even though it was free, I dropped out because of a lack of academic rigor. Everyone got an "A" in each of the four courses I took.

Ris wrote on Apr 9, 2008 10:38 PM:All I have to say is that I was a student involved in organizing the 12K for K-12. This was a student led organization and we did not want anyone other than the students to be involved in. I do not care whether or not everyone supports what we are trying to accomplish, all I care is that I recieve the education I deserve. I have attended both private and public schools throughout my life and I feel they are both equally strong in educating students. I feel I have learned so much throughout my years as a student. All i want is for students to continue to be able to achieve their life goals through education. Realize that the current students are the future. We will be political leaders in the future, we will make a difference for many people's lives.