I'm Jaded wrote on Apr 2, 2008 4:31 PM:OK, so the farmers pocketed the discounts on water when times were good. Now they are being asked to fulfill their obligations and everyone is crying "boo-hoo, woe is me." Stop the whinning, please! ...and spare me the, "wait 'til you don't have lemons, oranges, and all the other stuff local farmers put on your table" diatribe. I buy imported fruits and veggies at the market already. Avocados in Tijuana are 1/3 the price of those in San Diego and would be available to US consumers at cheaper prices except for heavy lobbying on the part of farmers. I'm fed up. Shut up or shut down. We will all get by just fine without you...thanks.

paco wrote on Apr 2, 2008 5:16 PM:no, we "won't get by just fine without you" buddy boy. i would much rather drive by a beautiful orange grove than a housing tract. have you ever smelled the orange blossoms dude? i'll give you a hint... go for a drive down vesper rd in vc with your window down and take a whiff. oh, by the way, enjoy your illegal tj avos and thanks for the fruit fly.

Dave Of The Desert wrote on Apr 2, 2008 6:12 PM:Jaded, you sound like a real true American. LOL!

I'm Jaded wrote on Apr 2, 2008 7:39 PM:Paco, they aren't fruit flies, they are thrips. And I don't import them. However, you can mash them up and declare them as 'guacamole'. That's legal, per US Customs inspector Lopez. Check it out before you fly off the handle. Yeah, I like the smell of the orange blossoms too and would much rather have orchards than homes. But it we don't want more homes, why don't we address the population problem directly? If population growth and the urban sprawl that comes with it is such a problem, why don't we discuss cutting immigration? That's where the population numbers come from. NC Times just reported that SANDAG's study showed that San Diego County's job growth came from the LOW end of the pay scale. I'm with you on the urban sprawl. But we can have our cake and eat it too...let's cut population growth (birth rate or immigration, it doesn't matter to me) and grow our thirsty crops where the water is. So Cal isn't where the cheap water is.

As for 'Dave In The Desert', save your cliches. Address the issues directly and I'll listen to your reasoning. We might not agree but I'm open to persuasion.

Billy wrote on Apr 3, 2008 4:48 AM: You makes your bet and takes your chances - and then cry poor mouth to the newspapers. I wonder if the growers can claim the stumped trees as a loss and they will be a plus for the growers bottom line? the stumped trees will take several years to grow back and can be claimed for years to come perhaps? Anybody want to bet? You makes your bet and takes your chances - and runs your business to makes a profit - and that is good.

Thank you Judge wrote on Apr 3, 2008 6:40 AM:for saving the little fishes! There is a special place in hell for you.

Robert24 wrote on Apr 3, 2008 7:26 AM:Less trees means less illegal fruit pickers! Call the ACLU; I think there are some rights being trampled here!

Sue wrote on Apr 3, 2008 7:29 AM:Where is the whining farmer in this article? The quotes are from the Valley Center Water District -- they stand to lose alot when their largest customer base (farmers)shut off their water.

C-bad believer wrote on Apr 3, 2008 7:34 AM:jaded is the perfect word for you: you ever looked into the history of commodity shocks, famine, etc.? there are times when we will not be able to import food due to climate change, war, disease, GMO variants, etc. take your head out of the sand fool, it's a matter of national security at a minimum (i bet you live in a house sit's atopa former agricultural use)

Derek wrote on Apr 3, 2008 7:44 AM:Hasn't the price of food been rising recently? That should help cover the cost of water. Otherwise, there's something to be said for keeping at least some food production local.

Jim wrote on Apr 3, 2008 8:30 AM:My dad grows avos. Luckily he is sustained by his own well. He is on a photo voltaic system so his power bills are greatly reduced. He is at an attitude where he was spared by frost, faces a direction where he is spared by the cold winds, is protected by natural fire breaks so no fire damage. and rarely has bugs. He is getting the benefit of higher prices due to all the negative factors assaulting the local industry mentioned above.

If you pay any attention to the produce prices, the price per pound or each for a Mexican or Chilean avo is the same as an american grown avo. The huge difference is the quality of the fruit after it is transported thousands of miles and has been containerized for 7-10 days during transport. At times during the year I don't have my dad's avos available, so I break down and buy from the store. I am tired of spending $1.50 - $1.99 for a good looking piece of fruit from Mexico or Chile only to cut into it and it is all bruised and moldy. At $3.50/gal of gas am I going to return it to the store? No!

Also folks, our Ag Dept controls what is sprayed for pests or what is available. Foreign countries use pesticides banned in the U.S. Go ahead, eat those foreign fruits.
Like foreign oil, we will become handcuffed to foreign food sources.

SIS wrote on Apr 3, 2008 8:43 AM:Dear Jaded, Your point of view is understandable, if one believes themselves to be "entitled". Entitled to the cheaper imports provided by hard working people at far less than YOU get paid wages in Mexico or Chile, and let's not consider the working conditions! We Americans, you know, of the "United States of America" have worked hard and sacrificed to raise our standard of living in respect of "The Pursuit of Happiness" Who's happiness are you respecting? Yours? The very wealthy Mexican avocado growers and marketers? Hope you never have to come down off of your banana pile, back down to earth with the rest of us mere mortals.In good faith agricultural water users entered an agreement with M.W.D. to receive a discount understandably because they are volume users, and to do their part when a water emergency is declared by having their supply reduced or terminated according to the severity of the emergency. Apparently M.W.D. has forgotten, as municipal and industrial users have not so much as even been required to limit their usage according to this "water shortage". Perhaps this, blocking SB221, has something to do with it?!

GAD wrote on Apr 3, 2008 9:10 AM:Go ahead and cut those trees down.
Avocado and citrus trees require a large amount of water. Unless a way is found to reduce the water consumption of these trees, they shouldn't be grown in our area which typically receives little rainfall.
I stopped buying avocados when the price per avocado went above $1.00. Avocados are not a necessary part of any diet.

Urban Sprawl wrote on Apr 3, 2008 9:11 AM:Perhaps we would have more water if Escondido started limiting new development. Poway made that decision a few years ago. It is time for Escondido to consider the resources available (power and water), before allowing another 200 home tract to hook up to the systems.

clm wrote on Apr 3, 2008 9:27 AM:Our socialist tendencies seem to be very short sighted. Our taxes keep going up to support more and more people. Our legislators are often elected on social agendas rather than efficient management skills. At the same time we don't have money to bring our infrastructure up to 21st century standards.

Our planet is filled with water. It is a tragedy that there is anyone on any continent that doesn't have fresh water by now. Instead of pumping water from Northern California to San Diego we should be pumping water from the ocean inland to efficient desalinization plants. By now we should have an efficient transportation system throughout the region that anticipated growth instead of the mishmash of poorly planned, high cost bandaids we now use. Every new rooftop should have low cost solar shingles. Every new car should be supplied by a cheap, clean, renewable energy network.

It is time for this country to get on the technology train.

BobbyD wrote on Apr 3, 2008 11:28 AM:Unfortunately, the drought affects only some of us. Meanwhile, we continue to overwater our lawns with outdated irrigation systems and plant landscaping that isn't drought resistance.

Hey NCT wrote on Apr 3, 2008 11:33 AM:I have a story thats just as relavent if you cant seem so find real stories anymore. How about, "Drivers Driving less as gas prices rise." Or maybe, "Diners cut back as the cst of food rises." I got a million of em...can I have a job? Or better yet...Ill send u some real news stories to write about!

Chris Bagley -- Staff Writer wrote on Apr 3, 2008 12:58 PM:As a reporter who often writes about gas prices for this newspaper, I can say that drivers do not necessarily drive less as gas prices rise, because the price of gas is not the only factor that matters.

For the the last year or so, 'Hey NCT' has been right: The latest round of record prices has driven down demand for gasoline, according to the US Energy Department and the California Board of Equalization.

But for the two decades or so before that, state and federal data show demand rising steadily every year. While some individual drivers may have cut back, others were making longer and longer commutes.

SIS wrote on Apr 3, 2008 1:51 PM:Dear Screener,
Are you going to submit my comments? I submitted them to you @ 8:30 this am.

Methinks wrote on Apr 3, 2008 2:09 PM:Methinks we'd have enough water for any industry if we didn't have 4-5 families living in single family homes. I have 2 people in my home, and I have to be chastised for watering my lawn, but the "family" across the street with 6 cars (different week, different cars) and 13 people in the house don't go without showers or laundry. Sad how some things become more important than others. Sure wish the farmers could keep growing their crops, and we could still keep eating, but I guess code enforcement issues go out the window for water issues (among other things) when there are avocado trees to cut down....

Safety First wrote on Apr 3, 2008 2:29 PM:I'll tell you one thing, the worker in the photo using a chainsaw needs to wear proper safety gear: no gloves, eye protection, ear protection, a short sleeve shirt. This farmer stands to lose a lot more if this fellow is injured!

paco wrote on Apr 3, 2008 5:28 PM:hey jaded,
great comeback and i'm totally with you on your points about illegal immigration and population growth. we all know where that comes from.

History wrote on Apr 4, 2008 11:29 AM:There was a time when the avocado was called, "Green Gold" because it was so profitable to grow. That is why all these avo farmers exist in north county. The farmers relied on cheap import water, cheap land, and cheap labor to make a killing on an overpriced produce. Now, times have changed and they are fighting for the old days when they could gouge the consumer with no competition. So sad.

goodbyeAg wrote on Apr 4, 2008 9:31 PM:sure cut water for Ag uses by 30%, but not for golf courses and residential use like front lawns? Makes no sense.

Frank wrote on Apr 6, 2008 9:29 AM:Reply to CLM

"Instead of pumping water from Northern California to San Diego we should be pumping water from the ocean inland to efficient desalinization plants"

Most of the water from Northern Ca. is not "pumped" as you put it. Gravity still works. Desal is great, but the ocean is lower than almost everywhere that uses water. It's a simple hydraulic gradient issue. SDGE charges astronomical fees for running pumps during what it terms to be "peak hours". Your water bill will go up considerably to pay for this peak pumping hour surcharge.