Poor baby wrote on May 20, 2008 9:00 PM:So Temecula "eyed" some land that didn't even belong to them for a possible bypass. Sounds typical of the city. Boo hoo. Get over it. Pechanga should be able to do whatever it is they want with THEIR land. Who cares what the city thinks.

lifelong resident wrote on May 20, 2008 9:06 PM:Why can anyone else "rape" the land, (ie. the entire valley,) but the Indians can not do with their land, what they see fit?

howdy wrote on May 20, 2008 9:59 PM:Wish the City was as smart financially as the tribe...

me wrote on May 21, 2008 1:26 AM:A golf course was constructed and neither the city nor the county knew....
Okay...

Buy a Clue wrote on May 21, 2008 6:07 AM:What's happened recently to change the situation, you ask? How about a few prop's allowing the largest expansion in Indian gambling in the history of the country? How about building a golf course with no prior notification to the City? If the objective of the transfer is to preserve open land and cultural sites, then it shouldn't be too tough for these Issa and Pechanga morons to understand that it might be a good idea to actually have it in writing. Maybe they hope that we think Politicians and Indians never lie.

Chuck wrote on May 21, 2008 7:02 AM:Just another example of the stupidity of Temecula politicians. What....didn't they get any fees when the golf course was built?

For once just leave the Indian land and the Indians alone.

Andy wrote on May 21, 2008 7:26 AM:At least the City of Temecula is looking out for the citizens interests in preserving the land. I don't consider 18 holes of "white man's past-time" cultural preservation! Keep the Indians and their new found riches in check....just like everyone else. Equality means equality.

to Howdy wrote on May 21, 2008 7:40 AM:yeah, the City should open a casino and kick out its members that receive payments. You think the tribe was financially responsible before it had its casino?

to Poor Baby wrote on May 21, 2008 7:48 AM:Im surprised someone comments negatively about temecula 'eyeing' that property for a bypass. EVERYONE complains about traffic to and from the casino. Even the fools that moved there AFTER the casino was already there and established. Temecula works with the tribe, and by eyeing I assume they mean that their engineers see a better traffic plan by an added bypass than as Andy put it 18 holes of "white mans past-time"(great comment BTW)

Greg wrote on May 21, 2008 7:52 AM:They don't have to notify The City of anything. They are like a soverign state. I love how the city complains when someone else over develops, but when we the citzens complain about too many house being built and not enough roads it falls on deaf ears. Even if the tribe gets the land it's will never be anywhere where near they amount they all had before we got here.

wrote on May 21, 2008 8:01 AM:I wonder if the burial site in Sun City is as important as the one under the WalMart on the 79???? Certainly gives them a bargaining tool when they want to sell to developers.

Read Between the Lines People wrote on May 21, 2008 8:26 AM:Do you really think that the city is looking out for the best interest of their city? What a joke! You people in Red Hawk and the new surrounding area better wake up and listen. The city wants this land so they can build a new off ramp to the city. It will go right through your back yard. Have you heard of eminent domain. You had better hope the Tribe does get this land.

Concerned One wrote on May 21, 2008 9:02 AM:First of all, the land in question is BLM land, not "their" land. The city is trying to make sure that the Pechangas respect the spirit of the proposal, i.e. keep it as open space. As far as the golf course, the Pechangas built it without any input from the city or county, which was in their sovereign rights, but not in the public's best interest. The impact of the development affects the region, and there should have been input. The Western Bypass would have benefited all, but the Pechangas had other criteria. I'm not unsympathetic with their attitude, but they've come out of it pretty well in the long run.

ShawnP wrote on May 21, 2008 9:13 AM: I live right next to the Pechanga reservation, less than a mile to the casino; I hope the city DOESN'T get hold of the land, or we might have another stupid Super Wal-Mart here!

Bad Habit wrote on May 21, 2008 10:39 AM:Let the indians do what they want with the land. The City of Temecula should widen Pechanga pkwy and then at the end closest to the casino open a toll booth and collect funds from people going to the casino. This will force the indians to come up with a new plan to get customers from I-15 to their casino. Then the offramp at I-15 and Temecula Pkwy will have less gamblers clogging it up.

Get A Clue wrote on May 21, 2008 12:53 PM:This notion that the city was not aware of plans for a golf course is absurd. I remember reading about this golf course in the newspaper years ago. I’m curious: did the city talk to the Pechangas about traffic when it authorized development of Wolf Creek? Did the county ask before Red Hawk was developed? What about Great Oak High? And Patricia Birdsall Sports Park? The public’s interest demands cooperation from the city too.

My Thought wrote on May 21, 2008 12:57 PM:The largest part of the land in question is behind the casino. It starts at about the height of the water tanks on the side of the mountain, running from directly behind the casino south past the great oak ranch.

In my opinion I couldn't really see the tribe developing the land in question, especially now that they built the golf course which blocks access to that area from the east. Additionally, it would not be that easy to develope due to it being on the side of a mountain. My guess is if they are going to expand it will be just south of the gas station, or just expand directly around the current casino.

To Concerned One wrote on May 21, 2008 1:32 PM:Lets see--The New City Hall site in Old Town sits on land that was part of the Luseno Pre Historic and Historic area. Arrow points and other artifacts have been found on the City Hall site for years. This City cares so much about preserving history that they Did not do a EIR or even a Archeological study of the land. From my point of view this City cares about tax base and the Yankee dollar.

Observation wrote on May 21, 2008 2:02 PM:Ever consider the fact that the Pechangas don't want a freeway bypass bisecting their land? If I were a Pechanga I would have built a golf course on MY OWN property too if it would prevent outsiders from building a highway bypass splitting MY OWN property in half. Many here seem to forget that the Indians can do whatever they want with THEIR land...or perhaps they never learned their history.

We all live on land that was stolen from the Indians just 150 years ago. Like it or not, the land transfer being made by BLM is being made because the Federal Government doesn't have the cash or resources available anymore to maintain the property. The Federal Government has decided to give back this property that has become a liability to the very people it stole it from in the mid-1800's. I see this land transfer as a drop in the bucket justice to the Pechangas.

Publius wrote on May 21, 2008 2:49 PM:Wow, you guys who oppose the tribe are funny and have a strange sense of history. Do you remember how the tribe saved Temecula from the SDGE powerline? How did they do it? By getting the Great Oak Ranch as part of their reservation. They also funded the citizen's group againt the powerline attorney's to the tune of $200,000. Now that the tribe has built a golf course the city starts to cry? Why? Because they want to build an unecessary bypass that wont even drop patrons off at the casino. It will wrap through redhawk and support massive development in Wine Country. Mike Naggar is behind this for his reelection and to appease the developers like Rancon who want to open up Wine Country. Wake up Temecula and read between the lines.

Peanut wrote on May 21, 2008 3:10 PM:What's the problem? Your Federal $$$ spent on useless land VS letting the Indians take care of it? Nice open space with the golf course VS maybe more houses or shopping centers? Quit complaining!

Buy A Clue wrote on May 21, 2008 5:22 PM:I suppose if "Get A Clue" believes reading the newspaper is an acceptable form of official governmental communication, then this would apply to all entities. Therefore, if the Pechangas didn't read the newspaper about Wolf Valley, Great Oak, blah, blah, then that's their problem.

By the way, if the City was allowed to operate the same way the tribe does, half of you morons would be kicked out of town. Sorry, "disenrolled".

concerned wrote on May 21, 2008 8:20 PM:The tribe has one goal to own & control all of Temecula by any means they can get away with. They misled everyone before & will do it again. This tribe is not to be trusted. What about all the casino revenue promised to the State?

The way this tribe has treated their own people is disgusting. The city is doing the right thing questioning this tribe's intentions. I'm sure this tribe will be writing a big check soon.

More Whining wrote on May 22, 2008 6:26 AM:Pechanga is whining that "...they passed a resolution...without any effort to engage the tribe in a substantial discussion..." I think it's about time they get out the mirror! When politicians buddy up to the tribes, look out! Good riddance Darrell Issa!

Ted wrote on May 22, 2008 7:24 AM:If I were a native american I would have two names. One within the tribe and one for the white man. The one for the white man (specifically the city manger) would be "flying bird".

Sam wrote on May 22, 2008 10:45 AM:I beleive I reside adjacent to the 20 acre site near Sun City. There is a fenced off area containing numerous boulders with indian paintings on them. The area was recently posted with no tresspassing signs by the tribe. It is over seen by a very rude lady that lives on the land and claims to be with the tribe. The paintings are monitored 24/7 by video cameras. I have contacted the BLM to verify this.

Randy wrote on May 22, 2008 11:45 AM:If Pechanga wants Federal land, they should first do what is right: reinstate the 1/3 of the tribe that was recently "disenrolled" for no valid reason.

Mr. Know-It-All wrote on May 22, 2008 4:02 PM:Greed and hypocracy come in all skin colors. It saddens me to see that only a small fraction of Native Americans are reaping the financial benefits of casinos. And, of those, I question their legitimate heritage.

Fred wrote on May 22, 2008 6:35 PM:Just to clarify, the land for the proposed Eastern Bypass and Rainbow Interchange is mostly located on land purchased by the tribe and annexed to the reservation several years ago. The land used to be in the city limits. The bypass and interchange are not on the land proposed by Issa to be given to the tribe.

The proposed bypass would allow greater expansion of the casino by improving access to I-15. When and if the tribe needs it, it will be done. The air quality and noise impacts of the proposed Granite Quarry would pale in comparrison to the massive impacts Eastern Bypass and Rainbow Interchange.

The tribe also has a public responsibility to mitigate impacts of development projects because they are a creation of the federal govenment but they also run a profitable business enterprise which plans and decides on how much impacts to mitigate. It's like a developer who approves their own project without public input or impartial third party review.

patty wrote on May 22, 2008 7:30 PM:This is an issue not about past history or respect for people's cultures, this is about the city wanting a commitment to use the land for the intended purpose of open space preservation and not to "swap it out" for a casino the next day which would be the option of the tribe. If Issa wants to give away 1,200 acres of government land for free to the tribe based on a promise to use it for open space, when he knows they can change their mind later, then who is foolwing whom and playing politics? I wonder how much money the tribe gives to Issa's campaign to get free land to expand the casino? If the tribe wants it for open space to protect artifacts, then they should have no objection to the protections the city wants in the Issa's free land giveaway bill. It sounds like the city is taking care of it's citizens like it should. The city is also trying to annex land where the granite quarry wants to go to protect the residents by protecting open space. GOOD JOB TEMCULA CITY COUNCIL! If the tribe wants the free land for another purpose, them them say what it is and work with the city to make sure it doesn't affect Temecula residents with more traffic, more pollution, more crime and more tribal rangers arresting, taking pictures, handcuffing and iterrogating Temecula residents who have hiked to the top of the mountain on the BLM land for years before the tribe took over the land where they built the new golf course.

Jed wrote on May 22, 2008 9:35 PM:Just to clarify, the tribe approved its own project (the golf course) with total tribal public input and total citizenship 3rd party review. All tribal citizens have input and say over any and all tribal plans and projects.

To Howdy wrote on May 22, 2008 11:07 PM:The city is pretty smart. No debt, and developers have to pay for roads, parks, bridges, the libraries, the museums. We have a great city with no taxes assessed to residents because developers pay and build the infrastructure before the homes are built. The city is also smart in trying to annex land to the south to maintain the open space as we have to the west. And they are smart for trying to keep the BLM land as open space to ensure that Pechanga doesn't build another giant casino and cause even more traffic, crime, and hardships on the residents of the south end. The city needs to get tough if they have to. We don't want a bigger casino or more gaming in our neighborhood!

To lifelong resident wrote on May 22, 2008 11:13 PM:Like every other large property owner, the Indians must consult the neighbors and agree to mitigate their impacts before they expand. It's the law - but they didn't consult anyone before they built the golf course. Would it be OK if the Indians built 100 50 story towers on their land? Using your premise, it would be OK. But ask the neighbors and they'd tell you they are tired of being impacted and trounced upon. The tribe has every right to be successful, but not at the expense of the entire south side of the city. They just build a road to the freeway for their own traffic.

Good Cipherin Jed wrote on May 23, 2008 5:44 AM:You left out the part that anyone opposed to the will of the tribal council will find themselves on the next list of disenrollees. Besides, what idiot wouldn't favor it when the end result is a substantial boost to one's monthly cash allotment? Any attempt to suggest that the Pechangas are a model democratic society makes one appear pretty naive.

That aside, the issue here is not the consensus of the tribal public, it's the impact of the tribal public's actions on their neighbors. For those of you who are arguing that they have a right to do whatever they choose with their own land, the Liberty Quarry folks are loving you.

Opportunity awaits wrote on May 23, 2008 12:44 PM:I don't understand why some people get upset at every move of the indians. Let's look at it objectively. You have a group of largely uneducated people with a historical propensity for drug and alcohol abuse, and a large monthly check that they don't have to earn. Additionally, they believe this will continue in perpetuity. Shouldn't we be doing our best to suck them financially dry, just as they do to the rubes that stumble into their casino? Sell them drugs, firewater, and entice them through their obvious greed into investments that have no chance of returns. If you can't outsmart these people, you have no reason to complain. Have no fear. If history tells us anything about the future, we'll take this away from them in time as well. As the state coffers dry, the idea of legalized gambling throughout the state and subsequent revenue enhancement, will begin to gain traction in the mainstream. Then, those that gamble will
have a choice, indian gaming with very little oversight who have a recent history of bullying neighbors, or state run gambling with strict oversight and a more reasonable monetary return to the state and surrounding communities, not unlike Nevada. Where would you choose to gamble? Let them enjoy their day in the sun, they'll always be outnumbered, and subsequently laws will change in time to favor the majority...

Avid hiker wrote on May 23, 2008 2:14 PM:RIGHT ON TEMECULA COUNCIL and CITY MANAGER! Please, no freeway through Rainbow Canyon, no Granite Quarry in the canyon and no free land for the casino to expand. It's a joke to say Pechanga cares about the land or getting along with its neighbors. They do their PR money giveaway each year for the papers, but little else. People on who hike on the BLM land must be prepared to be arrested by the tribal rangers. ... This is sad but true. We should ask Mr. Issa who he thinks he represents.

To Publius Observation wrote on May 23, 2008 2:30 PM:#1 Read the law Issa is using to give land for free to Pechanga. It requires land to be sold to the power company for the very pwer line you say the tribe so graciously helped protect Temecula from... wake up Temecula. They could care less if they get the land they want to build more casinos.

#2 Get over it. The Indians lost the war and became Americans like the rest of us. They are not a seperate nation like they try to say. If they were a seperate nation, they would not be allowed to give money to American politicians like Darrel Issa! Furthermore, there is the issue of Kennewick Man, a caucasian grave dating back before the time of mongoloid Indians. Of course the Indians filed a lawsuit to keep the truth from the public that this was all their land. It wasn't! Do your research. There are many Americans, including the Indian tribes who suffered poverty and genocide in history. That story doesn't hold water, try another.

Open Space Laws wrote on May 31, 2008 9:55 AM:All the City would have to do to "any" open space areas to develop them is to pay out monies for "endangered species" to the County. That IS ALL.

Why do you think Johnson sold his 1700 plus acres to the Mike Naggar for the City of Temecula to own as "a land preserve?"

I think a preserve is just that...with these people in power; Preserve it until we can profit more by it, then pay monies for the butterflies to fly somewhere else!

Dear Publius Observation wrote on May 31, 2008 10:03 AM:Ron Roberts is in the 2002-3 and earlier minutes of the planning for the next freeway on the Dept. of Transportation minutes online! He said you will slow or never get through a freeway through if you demand six lanes. So, Roberts quotes that only four lanes is coming.
The designers of the freeway corridor expressway when I met with them stated, only four lanes will come for now, as there are no monies to start building a six lane expressway. They can claim by rights one lane on each side of the road...and pay NOTHING. Then, when they come for one or two lanes of the road...WILL THEY HAVE TO PAY THE PROPERTY OWNERS FOR THE ORIGINAL RIGHT OF WAY THEY TOOK FIRST, TOO????

The City Council Members Know that the bypass brings the rights for Aerial Circulation of Transportation wrote on May 31, 2008 10:10 AM:All members know that within a side committee the written documentation was written back in 2002 for the Dept. of Transportation to have the rights to place high voltage 500kV transmission towers; Four of them, along the two RCIP (Riverside County Integrated Plan) two NEW CORRIDOR Freeway Expressways.
Jeff Stone, Venable, Bob Buster, Mary Ann Edwards, Ron Roberts, Mike Naggar, Chuck Washington, and Jeffie Commercho......ALL KNOW THIS!
Originally, the city would only write a letter stating that they wanted the crestline on the West mountains to have a clear view. Not until they discovered that the 500kV four lines would be going RIGHT THROUGH THEIR NEWLY PLANNED SPORTS PARK did they take action.
The City was not opposing the powerlines, just where they were coming through on THEIR LANDS.

By the Worst Treaty of the American West We Stole the Pechanga Lands wrote on May 31, 2008 10:40 AM:The Treaty of Friendship and Peace written by the US Government, took the lands of the tribe, removed them and their livestock, and put them out on arid lands without even a well.
The hearts of some ranchers and settlers were so broken for the peaceful Americans, that they went out and helpped hand dig their well so all of them would not die.

The City wants the transmission lines to go through their lands. The tribe wants to protect Mother Earth and the spirits of the Great Oaks.

Four Rancon Real Estate Employees and one past SDG & E transmission clerk, Mary Ann Edwards, have NOT A "real speck of heart" for the lands.

Now, after tearing and riping out all of the old trees in Temecula successfully, the write an ordiance to protect ten year old trees?
Unbelievable.

Pechanga gives more than their share wrote on May 31, 2008 9:09 PM:Remember when the City of T said they could not put in the bridge on Pechanga Parkway?....the tribe paid for it.

Remember that the tribe helpped pay for the widening of Pechanga Park Way.

If you are asking for exact honesty, let's give each Council Member a second chance to state how many shares in Rancon Stock...they own.