JA wrote on May 24, 2008 6:36 PM:If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and looks like a duck, then it is probably a duck and this whole deal smells like duck doo.

Well Said wrote on May 24, 2008 7:54 PM:Well Said..."JA". I agree.

paul wrote on May 24, 2008 7:55 PM:And you people keep voting for him!!!!

jeff wrote on May 24, 2008 8:31 PM:The guy is unapproachable. You only hear from him at election time. I met him at a farm bureau event, and he left a bad taste in my mouth since. He will probably get a super deal on a house, property, car, or vacation spot to push this through. He gives me the feling that he is an opportunist.

Brotha wrote on May 24, 2008 9:23 PM: Outstanding he finally has a mix that will sink his ship, the swine got his behind in a fix. bye bye HORN

Horns not going anywhere wrote on May 24, 2008 9:49 PM:Money is power and Horn has the power to get developers to back him. Let us not forget that in 2006, just a week or two before election day when he was down in the polls to his opponent a group of developers came to his rescue in the tune of $160,000. This guy is here to stay unless voters become educated on the complete incompetence of the man.

anotherview wrote on May 24, 2008 10:34 PM:Old story. Thanks to NCT for digging it up and telling it anew. Story a romance, about politicians and land developers in bed together. Ploys and slogans galore. New road for safety, yet not so. Smart development near a freeway, only needing a road to it, and viola! a local politician finagles it out of public view. Land developer accreting land thereabouts would benefit from road for his housing project. Both actors deny a connection between this road and the housing project from $25,000 earlier changing hands. Progress -- suggesting change for the better, but really meaning more money in the pockets of a selected few. Soon to come, the jobs mantra, a popular but narrow justification for building more homes. Boosters will emerge parroting the typical economic slogans about increased property tax base, sales tax revenue, and prosperity for all -- the distorted view of human activity through the dollar sign. In this one news article, the NCT has exposed the typical machinations that operate behind the scenes to further the moneymaking activity of building houses. By sticking together, the concerned parties against these two questionable projects can defeat them completely.

John wrote on May 24, 2008 10:34 PM:Gives new meaning to Hornswaggled.

Two Faced wrote on May 24, 2008 11:33 PM:Pots and Kettles... Those Planning Group members have wanted a road to Cole Grade from the 15 for years and even said it three or four years ago in public meetings. I don't know about 3,000 homes, but someone is hiding something, and it's not Horn.

strangled_kitten wrote on May 25, 2008 1:27 AM:how do we know the NC Times did due diligence? they are the same rag that erroneously had a City Councilman strangling a cat. Did they fire their top editors after such a shameful snafu?

Now you get it wrote on May 25, 2008 4:53 AM:How many years has Horn been in office? Who keeps re-electing this guy? The damage he and the other "I haven't met a developer I don't love" Board of Stupidvisors have done is incaculable.

BUT.... it's the boters fault for putting like Horn in office and keeping him there.

WE/YOU ARE TO BLAME!

Eskimo wrote on May 25, 2008 7:09 AM:Nice work, guys.

North County Havoc wrote on May 25, 2008 7:21 AM:The Supervisor is unapproachable, Jeff is correct. Supervisor Horn believes in his vision for North County, and thinks that the rest of us are in contempt when we dont agree with his personal views. He was a good man at one time (a Marine), but as with most politicians, something has happened to the guy and it shows when events like this keep recurring. The Fifth District needs political leadership, and it's just not there with Horn. Enough with the Orange County housing development model ok? Lets think about some infrastructure planning here for a minute. Does Valley Center have enough water from CWA to supply this development? Does SDG&E have enough power in that area? Is there sewer capacity to support the development, or are we going to need to add additional infrastructure on top of this effort? Or a Bill says, "thats the Utilities problem". Do you really want to leave the planning of our region in the hands of someone at the planning desk of the County, or worse yet, Sacramento?

Sounds like Oceanside... wrote on May 25, 2008 7:36 AM:The man needs to be investigated along with KFC (Kern, Feller, and Chavez) in Oceanside.

Concerned wrote on May 25, 2008 8:07 AM:Now that was a well put together article. Over some time we all have been reading about what is going on with Horn and the road in Valley Center. This article puts it all in perspective and how he works with developers and those who contribute to his campaign.

Roger wrote on May 25, 2008 8:16 AM:I'm shocked!

Tim wrote on May 25, 2008 8:27 AM:Let's not forget that Bill Horn's ranch house (where he lives) is located immediately west of the Goodson land grab and proposed development. The S1 road that Horn proposes could have an affect on his own land value, and therefore, Horn should recuse himself from all voting on the matter!!!

TS wrote on May 25, 2008 8:41 AM:how's too blame?--you get what you vote for. Where's the ATTY GEN??

ST. wrote on May 25, 2008 9:27 AM:The same guy who's trying to raise money to buy Rancho Guejito??? Who's contributing to Jekyll & Hyde's campaign on that front? TS, is right - you get what you vote for.

What... wrote on May 25, 2008 9:40 AM:...ever happenned to the saying, innocent until proven guilty? Let's wait for the facts to come out and then we can make judgement. Bill Horn is a pretty good guy. I've gotten to know him through friends, and I can tell you he's genuine politician, but I don't think he'd jeopardize his career (a la Duke) for a few dolars. He's already loaded...

And besides, the NCimes is so skewed editorially. They are always looking for the nefarious in everything!

First the wrote on May 25, 2008 9:44 AM:cell tower now this comes out. If only he would be a stand up guy and admit it. It is obvious to all what went and is going down. He thinks he is above it all and the voters are stupid. He has to go. Vote him out before we lose all of VC. Don't change the zoning and let Goodson and investors sit on their land at 1 house per 40 acres!

Nick wrote on May 25, 2008 10:10 AM:Hey NTC, ... Let the voters deal with him. What we want from you is a real story... like why we're paying near $5.00 at the pump? Let some of the awesome writers your employing sink their teeth into a story that could benefit your readers. Go take down the giant gas gougers. If there's any reporters out there that can do it your staff can. Stop wasting talent on small town schiesters like this Horn kook. He'll get what's coming to him. Go lower my gas prices... Please.

aDAMANT wrote on May 25, 2008 10:15 AM:We don't need any more housing in Valley Center. It's a small town and let's keep it that way.

Cal wrote on May 25, 2008 10:44 AM:Shoe-Horning more houses into Valley Center to make a fire road. Brilliant! What will they think of next? Amazing what you can buy with money.

aDAMANT wrote on May 25, 2008 10:53 AM:is right. VC doesn't need any more homes, it'll be just that many more that are threatened in the next big fire.

Vote of Reconsideration Recusal wrote on May 25, 2008 11:41 AM:Unbelieveable. Horn did it again. Laws ? What laws ? They sure don't apply to him. He has been pushing the limit for years and stooping to bending the very laws he should uphold. How in the world did this EVER get done in SECRET ? Changing the character of any community via favors to and from developers is an old story, but one that deserves further digging. Go for it NCT, it is a long time coming and your readers are grateful. If this subject property is near Horn's residence, then somebody at the Board of Supervisors needs to make a motion for a vote of reconsideration and remove Horn from any part in it. The citizens of VAlley Center deserve better !!!

smokey joe wrote on May 25, 2008 12:12 PM:does anyone remember the folks who were stuck at the high school during the last fire.

how we couldn't get out becauswe the roads were dangerous?

and clogged?

i remember. i was there.

so was horn.

north county reader wrote on May 25, 2008 12:30 PM:question: did the ucsd professor whom the nc times used for quotes ever talk to anyone involved?

has he ever even been to valley center?

does he know where valley center is?

or do the reporters of that piece of innuendo know they had to make their weak story look stronger by quoting a so called expert who does not know anything about the spefici topic he was talking about.

GFN wrote on May 25, 2008 12:42 PM:Valley Center does not need the housing development to have a fire-escape road. The County is responsible for maintaining the safety of the area and a bulldozed, graveled emergency road would work fine and cheap. Besides, if it takes 3,000 homes to build a 2 mile road for over 9,000 people, then the road wouldn't be capable of being a safe fire-escape road anyway. Quiet the Horn.

valley girl wrote on May 25, 2008 12:52 PM:apparently smoke causes amnesia ... also paranoia.

how many fires do we need in five years before the crazies go back to fulminating about electro magnetic fields in over head wires and black helicopters from the u.n.?

perhaps Eminent Domain wrote on May 25, 2008 1:01 PM:Much trouble for a V.C. family, the Britsches, West Lilac Rd area.

Trouble from Randy Goodson and Simon Malk.

“You buy property, you have your business, you have your home, and so someone can make money, they plow right through.”

"For two years, no one – not their land-use attorney, not the county, not the reporters, not the “experienced” developers – ever informed the Britsches of the possible taking of the heart of their property through eminent domain."

Quotes from today's UT. Business, home, hearts, broken by map line. Read Logan Jenkins May 25 2008 article in the Union Trib.

kc wrote on May 25, 2008 1:04 PM:Thank you nctimes for bringing this out, I knew Horn had land there and it was obviously for his benefit....but the deal was much bigger than that

Fire Safe Healthy wrote on May 25, 2008 1:19 PM:Calif does not have money. Does not have water. Does not have reasonable gas prices. And many more problems.

The graveled emergency road sounds feasible. Would not cost a zillion dollars.

What will happen to ag with all this VC development? Food will cost a fortune from other states and foreign countries.

Our AG folks must stay and work and provide for us and earn a living.

your next reporter wrote on May 25, 2008 1:19 PM:hey gang: i have the lead for your future fire investigation story:

a north county times investigation has revealed that supervisor bill horn succumbed to political pressures and crackpot innuendo to stop the construction of a new road that experts said was needed to evacuate residents during a major fire.

"they said they'd rather burn than get a new road," said resident. 'and they got their wish."

you're welcome.

Dukes Cellmate wrote on May 25, 2008 1:26 PM:This needs to be looked into further. I have no doubt Horn will one day be rooming with Cunningham. We need to build more prisons and lock em all up! Politicians are holding us prisoners. Should be the other way around. ... Looks like a snake, crawls like a snake.....its a snake!

gasmiser wrote on May 25, 2008 1:35 PM:Kudos to NC Times for this story. We don't need more huge subdivisions in the back country, flooding I-15 with more drivers who have no access to public transit. It's a shame we can't trust elected officials to put the public interest ahead of lining their own pockets.

Robert and KaDee wrote on May 25, 2008 1:41 PM:Since Thompson is the closest anyone has come to getting this guy out, we hope Bruce Thompson is gearing up his campaign to run again. We need someone who is trustworthy in office.

Funny thing wrote on May 25, 2008 1:45 PM:I was just looking at some old campaign flyers that I kept during some of the races in 2006. One of the flyers that was paid for by Voters for Responsible Government says that Bill Horn is "A proven leader for open spaces and controlled growth." It also says, "During the past 12 years, Bill Horn has actively fought for the continued preservation of land and natural resources that are vital to the quality of life for all of San Diego." A warning is then issued on his about how he is not environmentally responsible. He (Thompson) will allow out of control development and ruin what San Diego has fought so hard to protect - our quality of life." Thompson was not for high density zoning like Horn. I can't believe Thompson lost, but when a group of developers spend $160,000 to keep a man in who favors high density development then that is their candidate. Unfortunately for us the better choice in 2006 would have been Thompson.

Agriculture wrote on May 25, 2008 1:47 PM:In San Diego County, and especially Valley Center, agriculture is a major business.

Give the water to the current residents and the agriculture community before building any more developments.

USA - Calif - SD County losing many jobs to foreign countries - India, China, etc. Let us keep our USA agriculture business. Something that is made in the USA.

MJ wrote on May 25, 2008 1:49 PM:This will take care of itself .... who in their right mind is going to build and try to sell houses for the next 5 years .... no doubt this yahoo wants to build "upscale", "executive" McMansions selling for over half a mill --- who is gonna want to live out there in the sticks anyway? The richy riches all want a slice of oceanview.

Bernard wrote on May 25, 2008 2:04 PM:The current General Plan is a sham. Waste of taxpayer money because it changes easily for developers.

The next General Plan is probably already completed in the minds of DPLU--Commissioners--Supervisors.

Most of our politicians are dangerous. They do not care about government of the people, by the people, for the people. They do not surround themselves with ethical professionals.

County of S.D. motto: The noblest motive is the public good. MDCCCLI. (1851)

Our quality of life continues to be negatively impacted by politicians.

To Your Next Reporter wrote on May 25, 2008 2:05 PM:You must be ignorant. The issue is not the road as much as it is how the road came about. If there was true concern for fire safety then things would be different. He would have actually communicated with the VC planning group (wow theres a thought) and would have created community liaisons to attend all planning group meetings to understand the what the heck is happening in his district. But I would advocate, knowing Horn, that the 3A road is a cover-up for development. Any fool can look at the contributions and the list of developers who pooled together 160,000 dollars and add two and two together. The developers knew that with Bruce Thompson they would have an advocate for the people, and the people would not have stood for this. This is all about the "quid pro quo" system that seemingly exists within the 5th district. I challenge anyone to review the contributions that have been made to Bill Horn; see if find that more (in terms of dollars) contributions have been made by people outside his district then within. You must also calculate any outside group that comes to his aid, such as Voters for Responsible Government, because no candidate running for county supervisor could have survived the onslaught what occurred.

to MJ pm wrote on May 25, 2008 2:24 PM:Sorry, semi-new housing is already high in VC. Today per realtor website, 199 single family homes for sale. From 300,000 to 4,900,000. Most 500,000 to 800,000.

Believe upscale and executive is a million or more.

Not a realtor, but have been tracking house prices a long time; first by newspapers and later by realtor website.

Pro Horn wrote on May 25, 2008 2:44 PM:The facts are simple. The road needs to be built for public safety reasons, 3,000 homes or not. There could not be a purer motive than public safety. Second, this is simply a proposal. This hasn't been voted on yet. Third, this proposal was brought forward in public, nothing has been hidden here. I think it's comical that the NCT keeps digging up stories from one or two years ago and calling them today's news. WHat pathetic journalism!

Fire --be prepared wrote on May 25, 2008 3:10 PM:Reality is that in a major wildfire, there will simply not be enough fire engines or firefighters to defend every home.

Successfully preparing for a wildfire requires you to take personal responsibility for protecting yourself, your family and your property.

The most important person in protecting your life and property is not the firefighter, but you.

And few people have adequately prepared their families for a quick evacuation or the prospect of staying to defend their home from fire.

The fire season is now a year-round reality. Meteorologists are forecasting extreme drought conditions for Southern California, requiring firefighters and residents to be on heightened alert for the threat of wildfire.

Each year, wildfires consume hundreds of homes in the Wildland/Urban Interface. However, the California Department of Forestry and Fire Protection (CAL FIRE) estimates that as many as 80 percent of the homes lost to wildfires could have been saved if their owners had only followed a few simple fire-safe practices.

In addition, wildfire-related deaths occur because people wait too late to evacuate their home or prepare inadequately to stay and defend it.

Action Plan, Tips, and Tools are available on V.County website.

Many residents have built their homes and landscaped without fully understanding the impact of fire.

Fire Chief

To John wrote on May 25, 2008 3:27 PM:To John, May 24, 2008 10:34 PM post: LOVE YOUR POST: "Gives new meaning to Hornswaggled". Bravo! That was brilliant! It's sad...because it's true. But...a little humor helps. Thanks.

your next reporter wrote on May 25, 2008 3:53 PM:the vc planinng group and the san diego county planning commission and the san diego county board of supervisors approved this two years ago.

KUDOS NCT wrote on May 25, 2008 5:18 PM:This is great reporting. Some bloggers on this forum would like to marginalize the problem, make excuses and apologies for Horn and kill the messenger - but this article was well done and will stand against the baseless attacks of Horn-heads.

Fire or Sprawl wrote on May 25, 2008 5:49 PM:If I lived out in the sticks, I would assume that I have made a choice to put myself at higher risk of fire IN EXCHANGE FOR the rural lifestyle.

Don't try to "save those people from wildfire" by then creating significant development sprawl. It is not a fair trade...I'd choose fire over people ANY DAY!

Proof wrote on May 25, 2008 6:19 PM:Where is the evidence that the VC planning group approved the exact plan the Horn is advocating? Does anyone have any documents showing that they did approve it? Please, it would really change the way this debate is being carried on.

Former Valley Center resident wrote on May 26, 2008 8:36 AM:There is property in Valley Center that has an ocean view. I lived there for many years. Got tired of the small minds who wouldn't even develop a shopping center,, so we didn't have to drive 10 miles to get groceries. We loved the feel of the rural area, but you could see the development creeping in near the high school and beyond. Yes there is a fire danger, we were there for the Paradise fire (Oct 2004 I think), never felt the same about Valley Center after that. A real tradegy to a wonderful area. I am a native born and raised California girl who never thought I'd be evacuated at 4:00 AM by the Sheriff because of a fire. It changed my feelings for living in an area that was not well protected or that we couldn't easily evacuate from. I think a lot of residents felt that way after the fire. I saw the writing on the wall with Bill Horn long ago. He was always "in" with developers, I guess we just didn't know how much.

John wrote on May 26, 2008 11:37 AM:Horn and his fellow supervisors have been in office too long. Up until the past year
they have been lucky enough to ride the economic benefits of the California real estate boom. Their luck is about to end and they will have to deal with lower revenues, uncontrollable costs due to poor outsourcing decisions and neglected infrastructure. God help us.

prof wrote on May 26, 2008 12:20 PM:Perhaps Horn and the other incompetent government officials should devote efforts to minimizing fire dangers instead of supporting un-needed development in rural areas.

How?

Make sure SDG&E clears vegetation away from powerlines, with regulation and enforcement if needed.

Work to insure that the moronic process that kept military firefighting aircraft on the ground while the fires spread horribly does not happen for a THIRD TIME.

Invest more on the county's own firefighting infrastructure.
...

Bernard wrote on May 26, 2008 12:26 PM:Only evidence that is 'real' is not enough improvement: 2003 and 2007 fires were horrific. It is now Fire Season 2008.

NOW need that bulldozed gravel emergency exit suggested by GFN May 25 2008 12:42 pm.

If private owners are involved with the road, perhaps they would be willing to help because it is for the good of the Valley Center community.

Perhaps VC Fire Safe Council, VC Fire Chief, and VC Fire Board can get involved.

And all the unincorporated SD County residents must Plan, work on the Tips including defensible space, and have & use Tools that will help at the appropriate time.

In 06 07 08, 'wrong' tools were used during hot windy weather and have sparked fires in both Valley Center and Hidden Meadows.

VC Resident wrote on May 26, 2008 4:34 PM:Great job by NCT. I agree, this is NOT about a fire road! From where 3A is proposed to start (West Lilac & Running Creek) there is not only one, but TWO quicker ways to the freeway. As Fire Marshal Lucia said, this 2 mile road will do NOTHING to help the "Valley Center Residents" evacuate. In fact, these 3,000 new homes will only add to the burden on the already existing roads and fire response.

THIS IS ABOUT GREED AND CORRUPTION!!!! All around us we see the devastating effects on communities that sell out to Developers and thier Swift unilateral unplanned mass development schemes. The result:
(1)A massive and instant "New VC Community" with absolutely no connection to the rich traditions and values of our VC;
(2)A new Juvenile community in the middle of nowhere with nothing to do, gangs, drugs, and serious crime, with no plans in place; and
(3)And with no job market, thier parents will be "commuter parents" with little time to deal with these problems.

And where will the Developers be then? Living off their millions somewhere else....

Time and time again, the people speak, but Horn doesn't Listen. This time, if he succeeds, he will forever Bulldoze- Out our VC Community,Values,Traditions, and Way of Life. Can we trust our much loved community to his leadership and in his hands? NO! The time has come to Recall Horn!!!!!

VC Future wrote on May 27, 2008 8:37 AM:For those who don't want more people in VC, WAKE UP! The new GP update already adds 20,000 to our population, mostly in very densely planned North and South villages. If this west devleopment happens, then let's lower the plans for in town.

At least that would reduce the number of folks trying to evacuate from further inland.

The west development does nothing to help the road bottlenecks we already have. I dread finding out what it will take for those connectors to be built!

Nothing new wrote on May 27, 2008 3:14 PM:Horn is always hiding something but then again he has lots of help. How does his staff sleep at night is the money that good that you sell your soul?

KB wrote on May 27, 2008 7:27 PM:If you were to check furthur into Bill Horns $160,000.00 pre election mailer you will see that it was paid for by several developers. One such developer is proposing a 2700 unit development in San Marcos called Merriam Mountain.

KB is Right On wrote on May 27, 2008 8:49 PM:I'm sure you can trace every donation made to Voters for Responsible Government (ironic name, huh?) to a project in Horn's district. Those were some big donations to get nothing in return.

Another gem from Jenkins wrote on May 28, 2008 7:28 PM:Logan Jenkins writes
"Horn is on the wrong trail with road plan"
UNION-TRIBUNE
May 15, 2008

almost was a best kept secret

No more water wrote on Jun 3, 2008 2:20 PM:Besides all the political favors.. where is the extra water going to come from? I already have had a mandatory 30% water cut.

Response to VC Future wrote on Jun 4, 2008 3:23 PM:Response To VC Future:
You can't be that naive: 3,000 MORE homes can never help alleviate crowding in the city!!! Where do you think kids will go to school and obtain other services? County Police response will take even more time, since we'll have to share with 3,000 more homes. And there will be a lot more crime. Additionally, this is just the start of developement. Once this developement is allowed, it's just a short time before the developing works it's way into the heart of town. Look at other communities and you will see that leaving growth in the hands of developers is a recipe for disaster!! Let's hope our leaders have more sense...We like VC the way it is!!!