jl wrote on Jun 7, 2008 5:29 PM:Ridiculous. My wife and daughter are U.S. citizens and paid out of state tuition until we lived here a year. In a state where educational resources are stretched, it's a shame that illegals get these benefits. State legislators, get your priorities straight.

Disgusted wrote on Jun 7, 2008 6:03 PM:I cant believe our gov't don't see what is going on here. Why dont we all just move out of California and give it back to the mexicans to begin with. They are already the Majority Race in Southern CA

Roger wrote on Jun 7, 2008 6:05 PM:Be patient, sdraoul will be here any minute.

MaryJ wrote on Jun 7, 2008 6:21 PM:Yes, and California is a bankrupt, drought-ridden, Third World toilet with a 17 billion dollar hole in the budget and a Third World infrastructure. Which is one reason why states like North Carolina enacted the laws they did -- they didn't want to grow up and look like us.

Roberto wrote on Jun 7, 2008 7:33 PM:This shows why California is far ahead of the the rest of the pact...educating the people who live here is in our best interest regardless of immigration status...finding a way to make it eqitable is also in our best interest. Out of state tuitions should be paid by illegals and sales taxes should be raised with a cut in in State withholding to insure all taxes are paidth...btw, illegals already pay property taxes through rent, home ownership, busineses etc. The rest of you who think it's better elswhere....goodbye!

Dream this wrote on Jun 7, 2008 7:40 PM:legal residents only

Ralphs wrote on Jun 7, 2008 7:50 PM:I think all of our present politicians have sold us out. We dumb down our kids to accomodate illegals, we overload our hospitals to accomodate the illegals, we give away our tax dollars to put illegals through college. What exactly is wrong with this picture. If this was an insane asylum, I would have to say the patients have taken over.

Bud wrote on Jun 7, 2008 7:52 PM:If you folks think this is bad, when the next puppet president gets into office they will let any and all illegal immigrants into the country, with amnesty.

If you haven't heard of the Council of Foriegn Relations, I would urge you to educate youself, because the US as we know it now will soon cease to exsist.

Google or Youtube NAU (North American Union) or CFR, trilateral commision. You'll be frightened at what has been going on behind closed doors.

These are elitists selling out this country so they can have a One world Government.

Very real and very scarey actions going on that are not reported.

BTF wrote on Jun 7, 2008 7:58 PM:Since these illegal alien students are "so bright", why don't they go back to their own country and finish their education and fight for their rights there.
Oh that's right, it wouldn't be free, and they wouldn't get benefits.

They are ILLEGAL taking spots that SHOULD be for AMERICAN students.

sarah wrote on Jun 7, 2008 8:19 PM:Ilegal Aliens move the economy in california. Is different than other states.They should have the same opportunities than citizens, they work the bases, clean your cities,feed you,do your yard,take care of your children and your seniors and they pay taxes and social security that they will never see....they will retire to their countries.

Matt wrote on Jun 7, 2008 8:38 PM:Good.

Jimbo wrote on Jun 7, 2008 8:44 PM:I was born in California, moved to New York as a sophomore in college where I couldn't afford the college of my choice because the out-of-state fees were too expensive. I didn't ask for assistance. I worked during the day and took classes at night at another college I could afford. This is what Americans do. We don't expect hand-outs. And we wouldn't live in another country unless we had the proper paperwork. I love that tired old phrase, "broken immigration system." Other immigrants are waiting in line and entering the country the right way. And we're supposed to reward those who didn't (or whose parents didn't) with college loans? I don't think so.

Karl wrote on Jun 7, 2008 8:50 PM:I just don't get it. Our
representatives are lazy and folks like SD Raoul and Assemblyman Fabian Nunez can only back up this total invasion by calling us that are opposed bigoted. All we want are the laws of our land to be enforced. My question, and I have asked it may times before, how many illegals immigrants is enough. Come on Raoul answer the question. How many illegal immigrants can this Country absorb? Is it an infintesible number? Did anyone catch the story today about a town in Mexico that is upset with Arizona for passing a law that is tough on employers? It seems that the illegals are retuning to their town of origin in droves and the local job market can't handle it and are blaming Arizona for their problems. I say tought s..t. You reap what you sow.

Ridiculous wrote on Jun 7, 2008 8:56 PM:This defies all logic. And I'm a liberal-leaning Democrat. The politicians should think twice about this. The only people who support them on this are illegal immigrants

Dude wrote on Jun 7, 2008 9:07 PM:I agree with everything Mary had to say. The other States like North Carolina are learning from our mistakes and don't want to become like California. Who can blame them.

What wrote on Jun 7, 2008 9:12 PM:I can sort of forgive the colleges for not investigating immigration status of students. I can not understand giving illegals aid or fee waivers. We are laying off teachers in K thru 12 schools but we can afford to give a free college education to illegals?

Tuck wrote on Jun 7, 2008 9:18 PM:Speechless, but not surprised!!!

Al wrote on Jun 7, 2008 9:37 PM:Despicable! Outrageous! Sickening!

Elizabeth wrote on Jun 7, 2008 10:09 PM:I believe this article is a misrepresentation of facts and lends itself to hatred and fear.

Let's correct it a bit.
1- 65,000 undocumented student graduate high school nationwide. In California its approximately 20-25,000.

2- these undocumented students pay the same in-state tuition that US residents & citizens pay as long as:
a. they have been in high school of 3 years
b. obtained a H.S. diploma or GED
c. been admitted into a higher education institution;
d. apply for an institutional affidavit.

3. Remember not all 20-25,000 students will attend college.

4. Undocumented students in the UC system make less than 1% of the student body, and less than 1.5% in the CSU and Community College system.

5. However, these students contribute over $64 million/ year through tuition alone. You will need to add another $2million for books,materials, transportation, housing, and meals.

The CA Dream Act will not give STATE fund to undocumented students. What it does- it gives less than 20% of that 1% the opportunity to compete for institutional financial aid.

What is institutional financial aid you may ask? The total tuition sum goes into the "institutional bank" in which teachers, janitors, T.A.s, and other admin staff get paid from. In addition, 33% of the becomes institutional aid: scholarships, grants, loans, and workstudy money.

If these undocumented students pay into this "institutional bank" and only less than 20% of these students would be eligible for institutional aid, that state of California would still see a revenue.

No one is stealing a seat or funds from us the US born. We must learn to be objective in our decisions.

Immigration is a huge problem that as Americans we must solve together. Undocumented students in the state of CA are really more a financial and educational asset than they are a burden. Now if we can get them legalized we could stop importing the 175,000 employees from overseas. Yeah, we import while we already have hot-dog eating, Macy's shopping, undocumented students here trying to be part of our culture.

Now that we do have a deficit, has anyone questioned why the legislature has failed to pass the Yacht "loophole" tax that would bring in over $4million in revenue. Or what about the Car Tax? We have lost over $6million/year just by allowing the governor to repeal it.

dave from oceanside wrote on Jun 7, 2008 10:14 PM:This is robbery as far as I and most in this state are concerned.
The only people who put up a stink about the mater are the illegal’s trying to get a free ride on MY tax dollars for their children and the self serving politicians who are selling us and this state to a voting block of illegal’s who shouldn‘t be voting in the first place. I witnessed the illegal’s appreciation for their free education on a day without a Mexican last year when they put the MEXICAN FLAG ABOVE AN UPSIDE DOWN AMERICAN FLAG at our Oceanside high school. This is sickening to me and my neighbors who had to mortgage their houses to the max to put their kids through college while the state allows our tax dollars to be spent on illegal’s. Time to put the screws to the idiot politicians who think they can rob us blind so they can expand their illegal voting base.
I demand that my tax dollars only be used to educate my countrymen’s children.

The High School Graduate Trick wrote on Jun 7, 2008 11:08 PM:The Democrats are 'avoiding' Federal Law by stating the illegals are not allowed to pay resident tuition based on residency, but instead based on in-state high school attendance. That way, Americans from other states must pay nonresident tuition, while illegal get to pay resident tuition. However, allowing illegals to pay resident tuition is based on residency! Otherwise, it is not resident tuition.

One Person One Vote wrote on Jun 7, 2008 11:11 PM:Not in California. Legislators are apportioned according to population. Thus illegals get the same representation as US Citizens. However, they do not get to vote, so the other voters in their district effectively get to vote for two.

Bob wrote on Jun 8, 2008 12:05 AM:ILLEGAL!! What do our politicians not understand about this word?

Bob wrote on Jun 8, 2008 3:38 AM:Yes, these politicians are selling out our country, gutting our collective identities. It's all about greed and
self serving special interests. They need to be yanked out of their positions by the scruff of their necks.
There was a time that what they are doing would be considered treason and I think it still is. Greed is shipping all our good paying jobs off to Mexico, India and any place that they can pay pennies on the dollar for labor. What will be left will be low paying service jobs. They want to make us a third world country, like Mexico, where there is no real middle class, just rich or poor. We are letting it happen and believe me, it is happening fast. It's got to be stopped. These shifty politicians will stop at nothing to undermine our Nation, our borders and our citizens to promote their sickening agenda.

To Roberto wrote on Jun 8, 2008 6:40 AM:You say illegals alread pay property tax through rent but that doesn't work out well when there are 6 familes living in 1 rental house.

Jim wrote on Jun 8, 2008 6:42 AM:What is so hard to understand? The law is the law. As it is illegals who have children here are immediately rewarded by their children having citizenship status. That alone is enough of a draw. Let us wake up and do as the most of the rest of the world, including Mexico. Just because your children are born here, if one is illegal, does not make them eligible for citizenship. Incidentally, illegals returning to Mexico must prove their kids are eligibile to go to schools there. Ironic, isn't it? What a laugh.

Patrick wrote on Jun 8, 2008 6:43 AM:How many College Grads move out of California because of the cost of living? So we give all these kids a good education and they move to Atlanta.

Bloke wrote on Jun 8, 2008 6:48 AM:The once great state of California is the only state in this once great country that does not give educational benefits tor its National Guard. Our dumbed down state politicians are tripping over themselves to give more and more educational benefits to illegals. The next time a disaster strikes California, call an illegal.

to Elizabeth wrote on Jun 8, 2008 7:04 AM:I think you've been smoking some happy stuff. Look at this again. The legislature wants to allow illegal immigrants to apply for taxpayer funded loans, scholarships, workstudy programs grants, etc. Just where do you think that money will come from? Some tree Arcela Nunez-Alvarez' backyard? Simple fact is that there is finite amount of government aide available to help students. When you take money from a child of a legal, taxpaying citizen and give it to an illegal immigrant - you think that is fair? This state is in a financial crisis. It can't afford to provide a quality education to the elementary and secondary school children. Partly because so much money is diverted from the general fund schools receive to educate children of illegal immigrants to speak English. Add to that the health care benefits, etc., that an illegal immigrant is taking from a taxpaying citizen, and you have an opportunity for mass demonstrations by the taxpayers if this legislation passes. I am not willing to pay more taxes to educate illegal immigrants. That's not what I want my tax dollars to go to.

to Elizabeth wrote on Jun 8, 2008 7:13 AM:RE your comment: 'no one is stealing a seat or funds from the U.S. born" just how do you arrive at that conclusion? With 2 students in the CSU system, I see the immigrants stealing seats from my kids every day, week and month of school. Because of the budget crisis, the schools have shut their doors to new applicants, transfers are not permitted, and my students can't get their classes because the school is overcrowded. I watch the illegal students get the same tuition as a California resident when in reality, they should pay out of state tuition because they are not a legal resident of this state. There is a set amount of seats at each college and when any portion of those seats is filled by an illegal immigrant who is receiving my tax dollars in the form of a grant, scholarship, work program, etc., he/she is literally stealing a education from my kids. So you are wrong - these illegal immigrants are continuing to steal from my children to benefit themselves.

hometown wrote on Jun 8, 2008 7:13 AM:Typical ultra liberal Elizabeth. What the heck is going on in Sacramento? Water quality control board please check the water up there. Have these people lost their minds? Oh yeah, liberal control in our Legislature. Free to be you and me, hug a tree. Ever wonder what happened to the hippies from the 60's? They're in our Legislature.

What is wrong with you people wrote on Jun 8, 2008 7:19 AM:Assemblyman Garrick says this "If someone were to take two years off to serve their country and then decide to come back to college and his seat is taken by someone who is not a citizen of this country, that is not an acceptable scenario to me," What scenario does he find acceptable, hum lets see oh yeah, lets send the illegal off to serve America because sadly they can't say they are serving THEIR country and if he gets killed in battle oh well? Is that the scenario you prefer Assemblyman Garrick. Yes absolutely they are victims of the nation's broken immigration system. It incredible for me to believe that the people bemoaning about allowing ALL those who desire further education are the same ones who scream that the Latino's are nothing more than gang bangers and drug dealers, rapist and criminals. Geez give them a break and equal opportunities to succeed. When does this Garrick guy run for re-election he must be a one issue candidate who is only concerned with satisfying the the illegal immigrant lobby. We do not need legislators who do not serve ALL the American people. Bon Joir!

Miss Spending wrote on Jun 8, 2008 7:23 AM:Isn't the State of California in a budget crisis already?

Jim wrote on Jun 8, 2008 8:07 AM:To “Elizabeth” - I think it is you that don’t understand. You don’t seem to understand, the more they are given without question, the more they slip in and are not questioned. Let me put it to you in a way you should understand. I had a dog once and I would tell him to stay off the carpet. Being a good dog, he would lay down just off the carpet. After awhile I would look up and he would have a paw on the carpet. A little while later and he would have another paw on the carpet. A little while later and his nose with both paws would be on the carpet, until finally he was on the carpet. This is the same type encroachment that is happening with our schools. I see it all the time; classes held back, teachers spending more time with these kids because their parents can’t help with their homework. Yes, I feel sorry for them too, but, I stop when you tell me my daughter did not get her time with her teacher because she was helping these other kids get the basics.
So Elizabeth I don’t really care what you say or how you manipulate (or fabricate) the facts. I have seen it.

Daphne wrote on Jun 8, 2008 8:10 AM:These are some of the comments posted here today "They didn't want to grow up and look like us", Who is the "they"? If the "they" are Latinos than you are correct! "They" don't look like us! How sad it is that we still live in a country full of racists that will always look at skin color before the character of a person, now that is ridiculous. "They are already the Majority Race in Southern CA" This comment really shows the ignorance and fear of some Americans. This is the oldest racist defense in the book. It is all used up and no longer valid. I see them as people who do contribute and if we allow them further education we are strengthening our Country. "The only people who support them on this are illegal immigrants". Nope sorry you are wrong, I am an American and I support them. I agree with John Valdez and Arcela Nunez. I think Elizabeth made a good point and she is well educated in this matter! I know that nothing anyone says will quell the fear in the hearts of Americans because we seem to err in this all the time, I mean in accepting people who are different than us. "We can not afford to give a free college education to illegals?" They are not getting a FREE education nor are they asking for a FREE education. They just want to have a chance to further their education. As Al said Despicable! Outrageous! Sickening! some of these comments are just that. We are doing ourselves a disservice by depriving any student of an education. I have three children, they all made their own choices, One went to Pepperdine and graduated, the other chose SJSU and graduated and the other went to a trade school to learn plumbing. We paid the tuition for their education, and they also received some scholarships. I do not feel that if a more needed student received assistance to further their education my children received less! That is a flawed thought process and you will always live in a mindset of deprivation. Now that is sad.

Jim wrote on Jun 8, 2008 8:14 AM:To "Roberto" - Great idea just let them continue the way they are. Let them keep their illegal strangle hold on the system. Keyword here Roberto is "Illegal". These people you describe are here illegally. As far as you go, you should, just go!

robertocantwrite wrote on Jun 8, 2008 8:23 AM:Roberto wrote,

This shows why California is far ahead of the the rest of the pact ...educating the people who live here is in our best interest regardless of immigration status...finding a way to make it eqitable is also in our best interest. Out of state tuitions should be paid by illegals and sales taxes should be raised with a cut in in State withholding to insure all taxes are paidth...btw, illegals already pay property taxes through rent, home ownership, busineses etc. The rest of you who think it's better elswhere....goodbye!"

Roberto's submission filled with spelling and grammatical errors makes it obvious that he is a byproduct of the lousy California educational system he so loves. My suggestion to him is to go back to (or start) school and learn how to write.

Gee Bob wrote on Jun 8, 2008 8:29 AM:How original!!! Let me ask you this what part of the Constitution do YOU not understand!! ANY PERSON in the jurisdiction have the right to life, liberty and property and equal protection under the law.....ANY PERSON.

Yoda wrote on Jun 8, 2008 8:43 AM:Illegal immigrants living in California can now attend public college at in-state tuition costs. But legal U.S. citizens still have to pay out-of-state tuition at schools outside of their home state. That price difference can be tens of thousands of dollars. This includes US military and their dependents.

Absolutely pathetic.

To Elizabeth wrote on Jun 8, 2008 8:47 AM:Do you really think only 20-25,000 illegal immigrants are graduating from our schools??? Maybe in San Diego County alone... I wouls venture that the 65,000 number is actually quite low... MAybe you should visit some of schools in Escondido, San Marcos and Vista!

JuanGrande wrote on Jun 8, 2008 8:47 AM:Viva La Raza!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nick wrote on Jun 8, 2008 8:48 AM:Don't you just love how folks like "Elizabeth" and "Roberto" try to justify why children here "ILLEGALLY" have a right to a free education.
"Elizabeth" tries to insinuate that "Illegal" students are a benefit to the school system. Yes, the public funded school system. It's all about numbers and money. You see, the more students who are present every day is how they base how much aid they get from the Government. The more students, the more money.
Then she goes on to say we should bring back the "Car Tax"....LMAO. Are you really that dense? Let's TRIPLE the registration fees for everyone just so you can finance the education of "Illegals" and the children of "Illegals".
I pay $650.00 a year to register my truck and you would like to increase it to $1,950.00 a year. You are seriously out there. As if my tax dollars aren't doing enought to support all the freeloading kids and their families in this Country ILLEGALLY!
Get a clue girl, because you have NO idea what you are talking about!

Lyle wrote on Jun 8, 2008 8:52 AM:I am a US Citizen/Veteran and wish law enforcement wouldn't be so serious about drunk driving laws. They need to equate illegal aliens with drunk drivers. I mean, they are everywhere aren't they? I am relaxed after a few beers and I drive better when I have a 'good buzz' on too. Why enforce one law and not another?

Oh come on JuanGrande wrote on Jun 8, 2008 8:54 AM:I know this is just one of you small minded Latino haters race baiting again! It is just to obvious! Don't worry your tactics are working some American's are actually being your bill of goods.

To Gee Bob wrote on Jun 8, 2008 8:57 AM:I suggest you go back an read the constitution bud. Yes, we give "ANY PERSON" the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, however if you bothered to read a bit deeper it also says that they must follow the rules of immigration set forth in order for that entitlement. No where does it say to come in ILLEGALLY and reap these benefits. These rights must be earned by going through the proper channels of immigration. Then and only then are you worthy of those benefits.

Jim wrote on Jun 8, 2008 9:00 AM:To Nick - RIGHT ON. I wrote a couple of things to Elizabeth and Roberto but I guess NC Times did not like what I said and did not print them. But, they printed yours and I agree.

The Constitution according to Bob wrote on Jun 8, 2008 9:07 AM:It does not say that you must earn the rights through "proper channels". It say clearly ANY PERSON in the juridiction. So once ANY PERSON steps on American soil they are granted those rights under the Constitution, bud.

What gives wrote on Jun 8, 2008 9:14 AM:All of you who are posting mean and nasty comments are wrong, all four of you. I know you are all the same people because as I examine the comments I see the same errors in spelling and grammer appear in the posts. Don't fret to much we know those who oppose further education to illegals are in the minority so keep on posting. This blog does not change a thing. I do think the whole dog example is inappropriate even for this blog.

To Constitution according to Bob wrote on Jun 8, 2008 9:26 AM:Boy, that was fast! You sure are a speed reader. Oh, did you just read the parts that you want to apply to you or did you read the whole thing including amendments?

Do that and then get back to me.

I'll tell you what, I'll translate a copy into spanish for you since you seem to have a problem reading the English version.

Guess wrote on Jun 8, 2008 9:29 AM:No Country for old men...

Roger wrote on Jun 8, 2008 9:42 AM:Thought we'd have some insipid drivel from Remainder Table Raoul by now.

aDAMANT wrote on Jun 8, 2008 9:50 AM:This is absolutely insane. First, they are illegal. Which means they should not be here. They are criminals because they are hear illegally. Now, they are allowed into our schools and Universities? I'm certain they get free grants and loans and they don't have to pay these back. That is very unfair to Americans who are here LEGALLY. I finished college with a degree in business and I'm finding it very difficult to pay my student loans back. I almost wish I never went to school to get my degree. Makes me want to be Illegal. Then, I would not have to pay these student loans back!

MaryJ wrote on Jun 8, 2008 10:00 AM:Daphne,

"They didn't want to grow up and look like us" -- the "they" refers to the people of the State of North Carolina, i.e. they don't want to become a bankrupt, drug-gang controlled, educationally deficient, Third World toilet like California. If you chose to see a "racist" statement in that, that's your problem. I didn't know that "North Carolina" was a "race."

I am a native-born Californian who remembers when this state was number one in education, not #47 as it is now, and yes, I'm bitter about what has happened to this state because of mass illegal immigration.

Nick wrote on Jun 8, 2008 10:01 AM:To What Gives: No, you are in the minority and just hate to face the truth.
The truth is the Majority of Americans are fed up with Illegal Immigration and the Billions of dollars that are sucked out of our pokets to fund Social, Medical and Education for Illegals and the Children of Illegals.
Why do you think all the the Amnesty bills were defeated? It sure wasn't because of folks like you, "Roberto", "SD Raoul" of "Elizabeth".
Things are changing for Illegals and you can see it in the fact that many are returning to their home Countries and fleeing from States that aren't "Ilegal Friendly" anymore.
Dry up the jobs, dry up the free handouts and the majority will self deport.
It's NOT going to happen on a Federal Level because GWB and his cronies have plans for a North American Union by way of the SPP and The Council on Foreign Relations(which I bet you have NO clue about). We are starting to accomplish it on a State level and other States are getting on the band wagon. It won't be much longer until the loophole in the 14th Amendment is corrected and than the Illegals will really be out of luck.
I suggest you get used to this change, because it is coming and coming fast!

MaryJ wrote on Jun 8, 2008 10:10 AM:I think we should let all the Kumbaya-singers here pay the tuition for the illegals via a special state illegal-alien lovers' tax. The rest of us don't have to pay. Sounds fair to me. Daphne, Roberto, Elizabeth, where are your contributions?

Sickening wrote on Jun 8, 2008 10:25 AM:This state/country is going to hell.

My kids can't even get a dime of help but ILLEGALS do?

This has to stop one way or another.

PLEASE...Every citizen of this country must make their voice heard. Call, E-mail and fax our legislators and tell them you are PISSED!!!!

To Gee Bob wrote on Jun 8, 2008 10:33 AM:So when the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor, if they would have stayed and occupied Hawaii, we would have given them the right to life, liberty and property and equal protection. Well I got news for you, we are being invaded and I'm not giving life, liberty, and equal protection to any invader, whether it be Japan, Nazi Germany, Mexico, or Mars. I'm an equal opportunity defender of this nation.

Ken wrote on Jun 8, 2008 10:34 AM:This is insane!!! We are having to lay off teachers and increase classroom size and now they want to reward ILLEGAL ALIENS by allowing them to enroll in our colleges and even help pay for it, WHAT IS WRONG WITH THAT PICTURE?

I DON'T WANT MY TAX DOLLARS GOING TO PAY FOR ILLEGAL ALIENS TO BE EDUCATED! They (the ILLEGAL ALIENS) need to return to their own country and be educated. Then maybe they can start changing their own country.

Karl wrote on Jun 8, 2008 10:36 AM:atta boy Lyle @ 8:52 AM

You really put this into perspective. Come on illegal alien supporters call Lyle and I a bunch of names in order to support your cause.

Herb wrote on Jun 8, 2008 10:40 AM:In times when our politicians are not performing according to the peoples wishes we must exercise our right to protect ourselves from them. We do that through the initiative, referendum and the recall.
The people in our legislatures are going to far. We must let the people's word be heard very strongly through getting this issue on the ballot, even if a special election is necessary.
We have been too easy with our elect officials, and they do not realize that they have been elected by the people in order that they can provide legislation that serves the will of the people. Whose money do they think they are spending? Well, there are two cases I would like to bring to there attention; those of "duke" Cunningham and Gray Davis.

Karl wrote on Jun 8, 2008 10:41 AM:Elizabeth

You lost me on "we already have hot-dog eating, Macy's shopping, undocumented students here trying to be part of our culture." Exactly who are you talking about? I don't get it.

Mark wrote on Jun 8, 2008 10:42 AM:Those who refuse to give opportunities to undocumented students remind me of a story about the Nicaraguan dictator Anastacio Somoza Sr. back in the 1930s.

Somoza gave a tour of the country to a U.S. representative of Pres. Franklin Roosevelt. The latter noticed how the vast majority of the campesinos were illiterate and suggested building schools with U.S. aid.

Somoza bristled and said, "I don't want educated people. I want burros!"

This is the mentality of the naysayers and nativists. Everytyhing is black and white and overly simplified for them.
Ironically, they are the ones who need to get educated.

Time is passing them by.

JUAN wrote on Jun 8, 2008 11:06 AM:Undocumented residents, especially those from Mexico, are entitled to all the benefits afforded documented residents. After all, California was once a part of Mexico and was taken from Mexico by force. California should be joined with Baja California; removed from the Estados Unidos and become one more of the Mexican States. Never mind, soon the North American Union will combine Mexico, the USA and Canada into one big united federation with the capitol in Mexico City. The Canadian and American dollar and the peso will then become the NORCO, similar to the idea of the EURO of the European Union. Just remember too, Mexico is very rich in untapped oil resouces and will eventually become the dominant part of the North American Union. Many of those who came to California during the depression and WWII from the dust bowl, will be returned to the Ozarks or wherever they came from.

To Disgusted wrote on Jun 8, 2008 11:13 AM:You see, the thing about this is...we all move out, then the Mexicans turn California into the same thing they've left. They will come to wherever the gringos are to make some money. It doesn't matter what we do or where we move, they will follow, as long as they are allowed to.

You need to ask yourself...why are the politicians allowing this to happen?

ColoradoBob wrote on Jun 8, 2008 11:17 AM:Thank goodness California is so hospitable to the foreign invaders. By being so accommodating, you are helping our state by attracting these people away from here. We can't afford the social burden without raising our taxes or living like third worlders. Heck, we are at a point here where is is getting very hard to stay employed in the construction trade, we don't need foreigners coming in and undercutting us by working for poverty wages. So keep up the good work California. All you neighboring states appreciate the burden you keep us from enduring.

To Bob wrote on Jun 8, 2008 11:18 AM:Politicians understand the word illegal! It's what they do.

WHY DO WE ALLOW THEM TO DO ILLEGAL THINGS?

The consumer is in charge of what happens in this country. Too many people are too complacent and just don't care to do anything about it.

It's easier to blame someone else!!

Nancy wrote on Jun 8, 2008 11:27 AM:I paid out-of-state when I went to Penn State and then Ohio State because I was a New Jersey resident. What are these legislators thinking of? These illegal aliens should leave now. When I was a public school teacher I noticed that the illegal alien kids had mothers at home who brought them to school in time for the free breakfasts and lunches. My husband and I paid for our kids and paid for daycare so I could teach these illegals. What's wrong with this picture? Wake up American citizens! We are being played for fools.

Donna wrote on Jun 8, 2008 11:43 AM:This should be mandated by the FEDERAL government. NO illegal immigrant should be allowed attend our colleges. There are legal ways to do this. I know people from other countries that attend our universities legally. We need to cut off the incentives for these people to come here in the first place. Also, I don't believe these people want amnesty. They have things just the way they want them right now. Everything is to their advantage. Free meals for their kids at school. I see social security #'s IF APPLICABLE?? on all the forms. I say if that is the case, FREE lunch/college for ALL, NOT JUST ILLEGALS! COME ON, THEY ARE ILLEGAL!!

El Guero wrote on Jun 8, 2008 11:47 AM:Great anecdote, Mark. Except you missed the most important point that it was a Latin American leader who said he didn't "want educated people." Just as the Mexican, Guatemalan, Salvadoran, etc. leaders of today "don't want educated people." The implicit message is that their "paisanos" can go to el Norte and get a free ride from the gringo taxpayers. I'm all for educating U.S. citizens, but if you don't mind paying for the education of illegal immigrants, why don't you step up to the plate and pay my share too?

Funny wrote on Jun 8, 2008 11:49 AM:You should all be angry at your own children for not being smart enough to be in school/college. If immigrants can get into school, yet our own citizens prefer to be on welfare or out surfing and skateboarding, then it says alot about this country! Don't expect hand/help-outs if you are a citizen! You should be able to make it on your own.

UGH wrote on Jun 8, 2008 11:57 AM:This should be mandated by the FEDERAL government. NO illegal immigrant should be allowed attend our colleges. There are legal ways to do this. I know people from other countries that attend our universities legally. We need to cut off the incentives for these people to come here in the first place. Also, I don't believe these people want amnesty. They have things just the way they want them right now. Everything is to their advantage. Free meals for their kids at school. I see social security #'s IF APPLICABLE?? on all the forms. I say if that is the case, FREE lunch/college for ALL, NOT JUST ILLEGALS! COME ON, THEY ARE ILLEGAL!!

El Guero wrote on Jun 8, 2008 12:21 PM:Mary J's onto something (10:10). CA Assembly members who voted last month to approve AB2083 should have a special tax levied in their districts. Taxpayers whose assembly members voted against the bill would be exempt. The tax would fund state grants, scholarships, and loans for illegal immigrants under AB2083 and once the money ran out, so would the benefits. Then the Assembly could vote to raise the tax only in those districts if it wished to. What could be more fair?

Hey JUAN wrote on Jun 8, 2008 12:37 PM:You have most of it right but the money will be the AMERO. And we also paid the mexicans 15 million dollars. ( We should of taken ALL of mexico.)

People you are being manipulated and lied to by our government.
We are DOOMED!
We are going into a One World Government, we have been blindsided by the president and all the elite in this country to wipe out the constitution and the middle class.
I implore you to Google NAU and find out just how sleezy our leaders have been behind our backs.
Talk about disgusted!

Nick wrote on Jun 8, 2008 12:41 PM:Where's my last post Mr Ed? AS usual, there is NOTHING wrond with it. I have been blogging here for a longgggggg time and know the rules regarding posts and would not bother posting something that was not in the guidelines.
All of you Ed's should know that about me by now.
So how about it? It was a response to
"What Gives".

Robert wrote on Jun 8, 2008 12:42 PM:To "Juan": I think it would be great to "combine" with Mexico. Then we (the United States) could clean up that cesspool and make something of it. A land rich in resources and beauty, destroyed by an extremely corrupt government, and people who would rather run to America and take advantage of its generosity than fight for their own country. If these folks would spend half as much time trying to "fix" Mexico, they wouldn't need to come here and whine about how they are treated. What a glorious day when Mexico is just another holding of America! What a jewel it would become! Let us know when you are ready to have us take it and clean it up......

Guero wrote on Jun 8, 2008 12:51 PM:Few of you seem to realize that most of the people in question are 18- and 19-year -olds. They didn't choose to come to the U.S. Their parents brought them.

I'm in favor of tougher immigration enforcement, but punishing kids is not the way to do it. That's just going to create more of the very same problems that you're talking about here, like kids who still need help understanding English in 5th grade.

Build the fence. Improve workplace enforcement. But don't keep kids in the ghetto just to satisfy your anger.

Double Trouble wrote on Jun 8, 2008 1:11 PM:Lets see now, we help illegals get an education so they can become California Legislators, so they can pass more laws that will give more aid to illegals living in California. Jeez!, can we please import some of the North Carolina legislators?

TAX REVOLT wrote on Jun 8, 2008 1:22 PM:I demand a 100% CA State tax refund; the State has shown that they don't know how to handle my money.

El Constitution wrote on Jun 8, 2008 1:30 PM:To Gee Bob[-] wrote on Jun 8, 2008 8:57 AM:
Please give us the exact quote and location in the Constitution. I have never read it.

Stephen wrote on Jun 8, 2008 1:44 PM:It's time to demand a zero tolerance towards ALL illegal immigration regardless of race or country of origin. As other state's crack down on illegal immigration, they'll all be coming to Crowdifornia. It's up to ALL of California's legal residents and citizens to demand our elected officials stop pandering to the pro illegal groups. We are now 20 BILLION over budget for our state and it's going up each year. Until illegal immigration is stopped we will never get rid of the deficit.

Ron wrote on Jun 8, 2008 2:18 PM:Well this is just great. More of my tax money being spent on the criminals that we should be rounding up and deporting. This needs to be a ballot measure so it that it can be soundly defeated.

No Surprise here wrote on Jun 8, 2008 2:24 PM:Well just another thing an Illegal can get on top of EVERYTHING ELSE.

I give up, California is becoming another Mexico. Time to leave.

sd wrote on Jun 8, 2008 2:25 PM:Here is an example of giving up our rights and decisions to the city and state government. Why are we surprised that we were not asked what we, as the people who pay for everything including the paychecks of the so called law makers think? Read the article below about parents and tax payers not having a say in anything regarding education. Liberalism is fully active and will get worse with Obama.

According to the New York Examiner, a new report issued by the American Textbook Council said that administrators who approved books for use in the Montgomery County school district caved into pressure by pro-Islamic groups seeking to present a less violent interpretation of Islam.

Gilbert Sewall, director of the council, stated that, for example, the definition of jihad has gone through "amazing cultural reorchestration" in textbooks, losing any connotation of violence, the Examiner wrote.

Other terms, such as sharia law, have been adjusted or removed from lessons to avoid what he called "inconvenient truths."

Montgomery County Public Schools defended the decision to use the books, saying in a statement that all texts used by teachers had been properly vetted and were appropriate for classroom uses.

El Guero wrote on Jun 8, 2008 2:36 PM:Yes, Guero, I know that most of the people we're discussing are 18- and 19-year olds and that their parents brought them here. Are you saying the parents are innocent in all this? What I'd like to see is a little concern on the part of the parents for their children's future. After all, it's their poor decisions that have put their children in this situation. Honestly, my sympathy for these kids and their parents was exhausted long ago, some time after the feds amnestied 2.7 million of their aunts and uncles in 1986. And wouldn't you agree that that was a foolish thing to do, given the magnitude of the problem today?

I'd like to believe you when you say you're all for building the fence and punishing employers and all that, but the truth is that punishing employers will hurt illegal workers and their families, no? So how is denying financial subsidies to 18- and 19-year-old illegal immigrants who have graduated high school any different? Consider that they've already received a K-12 public education courtesy of the U.S. taxpayer.

Greg in Oceanside wrote on Jun 8, 2008 2:44 PM:Why is Ed Sifuentes trying to "sell us a bill of goods" that are clearly not the truth? Is he trying to convince us that illegal aliens should be here and a part of the system? Is he trying to 'soft sell' us on the idea of freeloading illegal aliens getting what the taxpayers pay for, something illegal aliens are literally getting for free? Sheesh, now I've heard it all! The time is now to contact your congressman and let him know under no uncertain terms that you are opposed to the hordes of illegal aliens getting things like in-state tuition and other benefits for free.

The minority wrote on Jun 8, 2008 2:56 PM:To Robert (12:42) You're on the right path . Instead of combining with Mexico, lets trade California for Baja California. Within 20 years things would be reversed. California would be the third world country it's becoming and Baja would be the jewel of the Pacific. It's amazing what intelligence, work ethic and honesty can do. We, the non-Latino are the minority...where are OUR rights?

Alexander wrote on Jun 8, 2008 2:58 PM:If a state allows illegals the in-state school/collage tuition rates, than, every out of state parent should sue for money back as "out of state" tuition rates will no longer be justifiable.

To all who are in doubt wrote on Jun 8, 2008 3:27 PM:You asked for it, here it is. Read it and understand what it says.

Section 9 - Limits on Congress

The Migration or Importation of such Persons as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the Year one thousand eight hundred and eight, but a tax or duty may be imposed on such Importation, not exceeding ten dollars for each Person.

The privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it.

No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed.

and more yet wrote on Jun 8, 2008 3:34 PM:The constitution covers "citizens" not illegal immigrants nor invaders which are one and the same.

Thank you very much, have a nice day.

JUAN wrote on Jun 8, 2008 3:35 PM:To "Hey Juan" whoever you are. You are totally out of touch. At the last meeting of the Organization of American States (all the countries of North, Central and South America) the name NORCO was felt to be a better fit for the name of the new monetary unit of the NAU. Amero is out of date. It's still possible that the name PESO will be adopted. The planned NAU will be headquarted in Mexico City since it is geographically more central to the Americas and will be a good launching pad for the next phase: The American Union, combining all of the Americas into one big federation, or country. The official language will be Espanol (Spanish) with Portugese, English and French as alternate tongues.

PS wrote on Jun 8, 2008 5:11 PM:I understant what they are saying laying off teachers because there is no money, I was told by a social worker I could receive Medi-cal faster if I were Illegal, they get the medical and I don't. I had to take me son out of his school because half those kid had a problem with english so the teachers attention was mainly on those students, and they have taken programs for gifted students out of the school, because some one complained that it discriminates against the mexican kids.

MaryJ wrote on Jun 8, 2008 5:12 PM:California sucks, it's the most Third World of all the states -- even Louisana looks better than CA nowadays. It might look good to some of the Mexicans posting here but that is only because they are used to Fourth World conditions instead of Third World ones. We gringos have higher standards.

To Double Trouble wrote on Jun 8, 2008 6:00 PM:You are so right, Look who is in power in LA.
It is lost to the illegal Hispanic group.
If any LEGAL Hispanic is reading these posts, I’m sure you are getting flack from the overspill of the anger and disgust most Americans have about the performance of the open border representatives in our government.
Be assured this is NOT directed to legal immigrants. We will win this battle with the self-serving pundits in our government. The internet affords us a tool to end the political corruption in our system and we will stop this once and for all.
No more will we trust our elected officials to do what we want. We, the American citizen, are now involved with online groups that monitor these buffoons tricks, such as hiding totally inappropriate legislation in completely unrelated bills. Take heed politicians, you will now be judged by your actions through these tool’s provided by the internet and you will be held accountable when you go against the will of the people and that is a promise.

D vrs R wrote on Jun 8, 2008 6:26 PM:I quote: "This year's bill, which is now in the state Senate, was approved in the Assembly largely along party lines, on a 46-31 vote. North County's all-Republican delegation voted against the bill on the Assembly floor". What is it about "illegal" the democrats can't understand?
Actually, I suppose they do understand it, it's just that they are willing to do ANYTHING for votes, and they want the Latino vote. Thank you republicans for trying.

Karl wrote on Jun 8, 2008 6:38 PM:For all of you Constitution geniuses ... the actual words are "and subject to the jurisdiction" not "in the jurisdiction".

Big difference I'd say.

Roberto wrote on Jun 8, 2008 7:08 PM:to double trouble, just go back and see the xenophobia for yourself. No one can disagree with a comprehensive and sensible immigration...but to say th mexicans and mexican americans are not targets is simply fiction.

sdraoul wrote on Jun 8, 2008 7:11 PM:what ignorance there is on this blog. Ignorance is absolute, that is proven here.

For those who do not know the Constitution, it covers all human beings within its jurisdiction, period end of discussion. If anyone can produce a Supreme Court decision since 1868 that contradicts that view, produce it here.xbqb8

For those who complain that they ahd to pay out-of-state tuition despite being U.S. citizens, so what?

In California, any child who is here illegally has to jump through far more hoops than anyoen from New Jersey to receive in-state tuition.

More importantly, that child and his or her parents qualify by greater intelligence to attend California public colleges. They had betetr sense to come to California that to be born or live in New Jersey and a number of other states.

As for the Governor, his mail-order degree directs his daily moves and that is why California is worse off under him than it was under Cash Davis.

As for those who declare that California sucks, go back home, you haven't contributed a thing to California's mammoth economy, to its industries, its universities or its ambiance of far less crime than the East Coast and general attitude which is superior to anywhere else in the world.

Go home, we don't need you and never have. You are bad drivers, whiners, and just plain negative drains on the California psyche.

Nick wrote on Jun 8, 2008 7:50 PM:This is straight from another article on the NC Times front page.

"Teachers and principals from Escondido's elementary schools are canvassing neighborhoods this spring, posting fliers, hanging banners and calling parents in an effort to boost kindergarten enrollment for next school year.
Fewer students means less money for the 23-school Escondido Union School District, which receives the majority of its funding from the state based on average daily attendance. The district gets roughly $5,500 per student."

Now do you people get it? It is not about education, IT IS ABOUT MONEY!
Plain and simple. More ILLEGALS in school equals more money to the schools.
It's all about bodies filling the seats.
Forget about all the American kids who have to put up with lowered standards and lagging classes do to all the Illegal students and the children of Illegals who struggle with the English language.
After all, all those here Illegally come before LEGAL U.S. Citizens, dontcha know?

Praxedis wrote on Jun 8, 2008 8:28 PM:Senor Sifuentes. "Any person not a citizen or national of the United States" IS AN ALIEN. An accepted and legally recognized term. The word 'Alien' is not some sleazy racial slur. No need to creatively water-down your language any further. When I emigrated from Mexico (with passport & B2 visa) I was a documented non-immigrant, but I was an alien. Years later I was lawfully admitted for permanent residence, at which time I became a Resident Alien (green card). Five years later I naturalized and became a US Citizen. ...

Nick wrote on Jun 8, 2008 9:24 PM:That's a hoot, "SD Raoul" commenting on the ignorance on these blogs.

Seeing as how "Praxedis" came to this Country LEGALLY like millions of others have, I wonder what his/her opinion is on the out of control Illegal Immigration we are dealing with today.

On another note, I am curious if "Praxedis" has taken their name from the minor planet orbiting the sun or from Práxedis G. Guerrero of Chihuahua, Mexico.
Cheers, Nick.

NAU wrote on Jun 8, 2008 9:46 PM:North American Union.
The United States as we know it now will soon cease to exist. Doesn't anyone care about this?

I have read about, heard of and talked about this for nearly two years now and the reaction I get from folks is one of ...duh...I don't think people believe it.

Imagine Canada, the United States and Mexico without borders, open, one nation. Geeze, talk about scarey and unacceptable. I would recommend to anyone living in the US to begin to look into this and start making your opinions known!

Is it any wonder the government doesn't care about the borders?

Karl wrote on Jun 8, 2008 10:01 PM:SD Raoul Under not within. You are absolutely correct that there have been no decisions. This does not mean yours or my interpretation will ultimately prevail. I definitely see a decison coming in the future.

You still haven't answered my question for about the 10th time. How many foreigners can this Country absorb without a negative impact?

Karen wrote on Jun 8, 2008 10:56 PM:Thats why we moved from California.