South Poway Resident wrote on Jun 8, 2008 7:10 PM:Yet another low income development is being built on "our side" of town, Midland Road Housing. How about spreading the wealth to the upper class and letting the low income families live in their neighborhoods for a change! Let the low income children go to Painted Rock and Chapparel ES instead of Valley and Midland. I've also decided that I will cut back on my water ussage when I drive through North Poway and see the golf courses and million dollar homes with brown yards!

Dago wrote on Jun 8, 2008 10:42 PM:South Poway Resident sounds very disgruntled and envious about his northern brethren. Frankly, we think the graffiti by these low-income creightons looks a lot better down in your neighborhood, than in Northern Poway custom neighborhoods. There's a reason why Poway is subdivided like this. Just take a good look around you.

Complainers wrote on Jun 8, 2008 11:18 PM:if you don't like south Poway then move. Nobody is forcing you to live there. I live south of Twin Peaks and our neighborhood is great. Why must people (especially Connie Messina, the "spokesmouth for south Poway") always complain...

and you don't speak for me Connie - I want the Super Walmart.

SOUTH POWEGIAN wrote on Jun 9, 2008 8:27 AM:To Complainer: Those who don't live in the neighborhood surrounding the South Poway Wal-Mart site and still think a huge Supercenter monstrosity is a great idea obviously have no compassion and no concern for their neighbors. How unfeeling and selfish can you get?

Common sense tells you that a 24-hour, 200,000 sq. ft. Supercenter (at the current South Poway Wal-Mart site where expansion is proposed) will bring a huge increase in traffic congestion, truck traffic, noise, night-time light, pollution and crime. As everyone knows, the core area of South Poway is already overloaded with congestion and a range of negative density issues. In addition, other nearby supermarkets and other stores on Poway Road will be put out of business. Aren’t there already too many empty stores all along Poway Road? A Supercenter will have nothing but a negative impact on the quality of life for all in the core area of South Poway.

I can't believe Wal-Mart would even think of imposing themselves in this way on a site surrounded on three sides by apartments and homes filled with families and kids. (Well, actually considering this is Wal-Mart --- I guess we can believe it.) I truly hope our City Council will never approve this expansion proposal. If the Wal-Mart expansion is approved, then "Complainer" will have his way and lots of South Poway folks will likely have no choice but to move.

Personally, I think Connie Messina and her South Poway group are right on. It’s about time to tip the balance of power in Poway. Unlike Complainer, the neighbors in my area of South Poway have appreciated that someone is finally representing our side of town.

Olaf wrote on Jun 9, 2008 8:31 AM:to complainers: Typical high brow mentality. Keep the riff-raff out of our neighborhood but I am free market, go ahead and put a super Wal-Mart down in your neighborhood. I say you put the super Wally World in NORTH POWAY. Then watch how unglued they become.

Dave wrote on Jun 9, 2008 8:35 AM:I live right in the middle of Poway, and I agree with the S. Poway folks. And the comment from Emery is quite funny. Of course the South gets more resources, that's where most of the people live, where most of the traffic is, where most of the crime is..so of course they would get most of the resources. Emery has been in his job way too long and has lost sight of what he and the council has done to South Poway. Maybe because none of them live in South Poway.

SOUTH POWAY GHETTO wrote on Jun 9, 2008 9:38 AM:This article does a good job of pointing out the vast differences between north and south in Poway. You don’t have to be in Poway for long to see that the two areas are very different. The reason most of the parks and facilities are in the southern area is because THIS IS WHERE MOST OF THE POPULATION IS. This is not difficult to understand and Emery should know this. Hundreds (if not thousands) of apartment dwellers in South Poway do not have a patio, a deck or a yard of any kind. This is where parks and open space are most desperately needed. Meanwhile, most of the wealthier folks in the northern area have a personal “park” in their own front yard and back yard.

Note that, in addition to nearly all of Poway’s city-sponsored affordable housing complexes, there are over 30 large privately owned apartment complexes all around the core area of South Poway. The resulting density issues are obvious. Thus, this is where all the graffiti and abandoned shopping carts are found, in addition to gang wannabe’s and other socio-economic issues. Meanwhile, there are zero apartment complexes in North Poway (and very few of the city’s complexes).

It is important to understand that there are state laws against racial, ethnic and economic segregation --- which is certainly what this is in Poway. As the City of Poway and its Redevelopment Agency continue to add its city-sponsored low-income housing in our area time after time, they simply exacerbate the ongoing density problems in our side of town. Thank goodness for Ms. Messina and her Association for finally speaking out on this important issue.

Affordable housing is needed – but not all concentrated in the same area. Enough is enough. South Powegians need to educate themselves about our Redevelopment Agency and understand why this continues to happen to our side of town. Our council members will claim all sorts of zoning restrictions and other excuses. But don’t be fooled… the wealthier and more powerful folks in the north side have, over the years, set things up and “stacked the deck” so that it is always the south side of Poway that gets dumped on. Just take a look around – The evidence is plain to see. As much as we all like living in Poway, it is no accident that, in many ways, South Poway looks and feels like a quasi-ghetto area.

Reardon wrote on Jun 9, 2008 9:53 AM:DUH! There is a mountain range between the north and south of Poway!

The north shops in Rancho Bernardo -- they do not need Poway downtown. I lived in Green Valley for 22 years and never thought of downtown Poway -- many miles away -- while Rancho Bernardo was (literally) three hundred yards away! I shopped, ate, and owned a business in RB, so I was there in RB daily -- I saw South Poway once every three months.

It is a natural geographic barrier and several miles that separate North Poway from South Poway, and yes, it developed (naturally) differently from South Poway because the people in North Poway never saw South Poway.

Get over it! It is natural.

I Love South Poway wrote on Jun 9, 2008 10:27 AM:I live in South Poway. I love South Poway. I don't have to drive miles to go to the store, the movies, etc. The so-called low income housing is really workforce housing for those in the retail and service sectors. It looks better than the so-called market rate apartments and has improved the look of the community. As far as Wal-Mart goes, I have been to supercenters and I don't know how they can get one on that site. There is not enough parking. I am looking forward to the Town Center to revitalize Poway Road.

Alex wrote on Jun 9, 2008 10:44 AM:I agree with Dave concerning our City Council in Poway. It seems they have forgotten that they represent all of Poway. Also, it seems the council refers to the general plan when it suits their needs and ignores it when it doesn't suit their needs. The general plan was formulated many years ago. Don't you think it just might be a little outdated, along with our Council.

Tired wrote on Jun 9, 2008 11:16 AM:I have lived here in S. Poway for more than ten years now. When my daughter enrolled in Valley Elementary it was a top notched school, in the last few years I have watched it go down hill.
I agree with the South Poway group on many issues but I do not agree with the Walmart expansion. I was in the food industry for many years selling to the super markets and I can tell you that they are all ripping us off, Walmart will keep the more honest in their pricing and all of us will win from there presence in the community. I can guarantee you all that they (the large markets) and the small markets will not go out of business. There will still be loyal Von's, Albertsons and Stater Bros, shoppers that will not change stores, and the little markets are still needed.

Get over it wrote on Jun 9, 2008 11:31 AM:Quit your whining south Poway- at least you don't live in Oceanside.

REPLY TO REARDON wrote on Jun 9, 2008 12:09 PM:REARDON: How dare you say “Get over it! It is natural.” What a selfish an elitist remark! You are simply proving points made in several other comments above. Too many folks in North Poway, like you, forget that we are all one city. It is easy to ignore the southern section of your city as it turns into a “ghetto” when, as you say, you rarely have to see it.

SOUTH POWEGIANS: Remember, there is an election in November for two new City Council members. It is time we South Powegians stood up for ourselves. We need to let our local candidates know that we will no longer tolerate the City Council turning our area into the “dumping grounds” while wealthy northern folks work everything to maintain their pristine and privileged atmosphere. The lack of fairness and consideration for South Poway has existed for too many years and the time is ripe for big changes in our city.

POWAY CITY COUNCIL CANDIDATES: You would be well advised to pay more attention to South Poway needs. Our City Council needs to quit catering mostly to folks in the north and take care of the needs of ALL of Poway. South Poway has been shortchanged way too often and the residents here know it. South Poway residents have become smarter, more aware and angrier about this power imbalance.

John E wrote on Jun 9, 2008 12:15 PM:No one is mentioning the elephant in the room: state-mandated growth-accommodating (and arguably growth-generating) upzoning. I sincerely hope Poway can hold the line at 55k residents.

Succeed wrote on Jun 9, 2008 1:14 PM:Maybe south Poway should succeed from north Poway and form its own town. That way south Poway will have the last laugh because they will have all of the taxes to themselves.

Footnote: I don't live in Poway nor do I know anyone who lives there.

Reardon wrote on Jun 9, 2008 3:58 PM:To Reply...: No, I didn't forget that it is one City -- but I lived there before it WAS a city! And North Poway voted heavily against Poway Incorporation -- it would have much preferred to have been in the unincorporated part of the County as it was before incorporation, or even to have joined Rancho Bernardo, or to have incorporated itself. It couldn't because of the County Board of Supers "Sphere of influence" concept that treated two absolutely disparate communities as one community.

You can make North Poway part of the Poway City, but you can't force the residents not to shop in RB, a community they go to or through daily. There are people in North Poway who have not seen Poway Road in the past year -- perhaps five years.

It's not elitism -- it is geography! If you don’t like North Poway residents ignoring South Poway, close off Espola Road at the RB boundary – but until then...

Yawn wrote on Jun 9, 2008 4:27 PM:I thought this was supposed to be a "news" paper. This is just the same old north south babble that has been going on forever, nothing has changed. Must be a slow news day.

George wrote on Jun 9, 2008 7:56 PM:We've seen that "smart growth" leads to a declining lifestyle in "Smart Growth isn't so bright" (NCT 5/22/2006 http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2006/05/22/opinion/commentarycal/52406134521.txt ). Poway is proving the point.

Confused in Poway wrote on Jun 9, 2008 10:08 PM:I just moved to South Poway in October and bought my first home. My expectations of a wonderful community that comes together is sadly slipping away by reading these kinds of articles. Not only is it hard as hell to buy a home even with two incomes, I find it even harder to believe a community siding itself. I sure wish I would have known the North/South hate before I moved here. I hope when my wife and I decide to have kids that they won't have to grow up in a slum as people are seeming to point out. Or that all of school tax money is going North. I just don't get it. I was happy to move here in October and think it's a dream to even be able to afford a house. Now it just makes me sad see that Poway really doesn't seem like a community.

An idea wrote on Jun 9, 2008 11:39 PM:Let's put low-income housing in North Poway and that way the folks who live in the housing won't be on a bus line (the poway bus runs twice a day), won't be able to walk to stores, parks, classes, school, community pool, to the boys and girls club or even to work. South Poway is the logical place to provide housing to people who depend on community services. I do agree that squeezing in a super walmart is crazy. But watch, it will fly through the city channels. $$$.

It is simple wrote on Jun 11, 2008 1:31 PM:Maybe some south poway residents should get together (opposing wal-mart would seem a good motivator) and exert some pressure and, ultimately, elect a couple of residents to the council. Plus it isn't precisely Twin Peaks Road (isn't Rexford technically in "south Poway")- - rather it is the area that is at higher densities that feels a lot more like RB or Scripps than "city in the country places like High Valley Ranch".

Bravo wrote on Jun 11, 2008 4:14 PM:"An idea" is absolutely correct. Also, Super Walmart is a horrible idea ... Super Target would be much better! : )

John wrote on Jun 14, 2008 12:38 PM:Many cities -- MANY -- are actually collections of communities that are mostly separate, usually due to geography similar to Poway. All such separated communities normally go their separate ways, because their work/school/shopping paths do not cross due to geography. This has been the case in every one of the many cities I've lived in, including cities that are smaller and larger than Poway. So to declare it's some kind of political issue is creating a human "problem" when it's really a natural and unchangeable situation.

Poway's geography, and the distribution of roads and schools and shopping areas, is rather obvious, so what is a basis for accepting it by moving in, then complaining about it? And what could possible be a "solution" -- tear down Twin Peaks or add toll gates to/from San Diego?

Poway's real problem is that so many residents spend their money in San Diego (Carmel Mt/RB/Scripps Ranch) stores, shortchanging Poway on taxes. No one in north Poway is going to drive past three or four nearby SD grocery stores just to get to those on Poway Rd. Given gas prices, it's not even worthwhile to drive from north Poway to Wal-Mart just for the lower prices, but sometimes it is for certain unique merchandise.

There's no apparent solution to Poway getting more sales tax revenue from Poway residents, but it is a real problem. (Hmmm... could Poway offer charge lower sales tax rate to residents?)

Re Wal-Mart, I just shopped in a Wal-Mart Supercenter in Arizona, and loved it -- many more products, all at lower prices. For instance, a Smuckers Jam I like at Wal-Mart is around $2.50, vs. $4.70 in Vons. The higher tax revenue from Wal-Mart will directly benefit those in south Poway, because that's where the city spends most of its money.

Unless a north Poway neighborhood is leveled and a shopping center built in its place (which presumes merchanges would even want to be there), NOTHING is going to change the fact that north Poway is residential and south Poway is a mix. There's no reason to debate something that can't be changed.

More productive is to look at ways south Poway can become more of an attraction for north Poway, SD and other people who would then contribute even more tax money to Poway. I'd like to see more Old Poway theming, even to the point of being cute/quaint. Look at LaVerne in east LA County -- a western-themed small town that gets publicity drawing tourists and locals alike. Look at Solvang in central Calif, which is world-famous for its 19th century Danish theme, as is Poulsbo, WA. Across the nation, there are many small-ish towns that have prominent style themes, and for many it is the KEY to their surviving and prospering.

Why isn't a theme a REQUIREMENT for Poway commercial development? (Why does the "new" city hall and library look generic instead of like they belong in Poway?). Giving Poway an interesting, appealing image can't be done just by some facades on Midway Road and a "festival" or two. It needs to run the length of Poway Road, at a minimum. Visit LaVerne, visit Solvang, heck, visit Disneyland, then give Poway the style makeover it really needs.

inky wrote on Jun 17, 2008 8:34 AM:The traffic down Poway Rd. is horrible, even in the middle of the day. I'd like to move to a quieter area in the north part of Poway, but still it will be necessary to go through the traffic to get to the stores, library, post office, gym, etc. which are all in southern Poway. I think if I lived in the northern part, I wouldn't bother coming down here to shop anymore. I'd shop in RB or Carmel Mtn or even 4S ranch.