nita wrote on Jun 9, 2008 6:21 PM:I just sounds stupid, Gays are fine in the military as long as they don't tell anyone. If gays are putting their life on the line like the straight people, they should have all rights of any other person in the military. They are good enough to die for this country, but the military still puts on blinders,
Only in America. how sad

I feel for the servicemen wrote on Jun 9, 2008 7:36 PM:it will be difficult for them to leave their loved one's behind. Just when we need more soldiers, the army want to kick some out?????

So...why tell wrote on Jun 9, 2008 7:42 PM:In the military or anywhere else. You don't hear about heterosexuals going around screaming that they are straight. It is this prolific philosophy that gays have that they should be "in your face" and with expectations of "special" rights that is their problem. Sexual Orientation is personal and should be kept as so. And NO ONE should get any "special" rights because they are gay. Being Americans already gives them all the rights they are entitled to.

Oceanside wrote on Jun 9, 2008 7:52 PM:I am retired military and am against the don't tell policy. I have known many soldiers who were too cowardly to serve and said they were gay so they could get out of the service. Until there is a test to prove you are gay it should not be a reason for discharge. The policy provides a loop hole for those who change their mind when the going gets tough.

Mario wrote on Jun 9, 2008 8:19 PM:To So...why tell,

Being gay is not an issue of telling others you are gay and you are quite wrong in saying straights do not do that. Every time a straight person is afforded the right to marry, every time they kiss or hold hands in public they tell the world they are straight. In most circumstances gay people can't even hold their partners hand in public on the off chance they will be beaten up or at least verbally harassed. In some states gay people can legally be fired from their jobs and kicked out of their apartments simply for being gay. Attitudes like yours never truely come from a concern of others being afforded special rights, it is simply bigoted bullyism. The truth of the matter is that gay men and women serve in all ranks and in all services of the military proudly and with distinction. Forcing them to hide who they are is what causes disruption.

Olina wrote on Jun 9, 2008 8:55 PM:Legalization of gay marriage in California is a good news for GLBT. One of my friends, who found her another part on the online community bisexualmingle, decided to get married recently. Hope they have a great marriage life.

Not The Same wrote on Jun 9, 2008 9:06 PM:Same sex marriage is not gay marriage. Homosexuals have never been denied the right to marry. Homosexual men have always been able to marry women, and lesbians could always marry men. And everyone has the right to do what they want in their bedroom. So who's not being treated equally?

So ... why think wrote on Jun 9, 2008 9:09 PM:I agree with So Why Tell. Straight servicemen never ever ever mention their wives and girlfriends back home. I'll bet it hasn't happened even once.

To Not The Same wrote on Jun 9, 2008 9:38 PM:Wow.

Chuck wrote on Jun 10, 2008 3:16 AM:Its not rite that gays are in the military, I am a retired military man. All us men sleep in the same berthing and shower in the same location, I have the rite to my privacy. If a man is gay he is there rite with me, and I dont know about it therefore my privacy is gone. Why cant we sleep in the womans berthing and shower in the same place they do? Gays are attracted to the same sex go figure !! Well, im attracted to woman, but that doesnt give me the rite to sleep and shower in the same place !!!

Mike wrote on Jun 10, 2008 3:22 AM:To Mario-Being straight is the ONLY way. The good Lord made man for the woman and the woman for the man.

I wrote on Jun 10, 2008 5:00 AM:The "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy prohibits individuals from disclosing their gay or bisexual orientation. Those who are heterosexual are not prohibited from disclosing their sexual orientation. Unlike many may think, gays and lesbians do not desire the ability to "scream in the faces of others" and draw attention to their sexual orientation. They just ask that they not be punished for saying they are attracted to people of their same sex. These are brave individuals willing to fight for our wonderful country and we continue to deny to them, basic protections and equal rights. This continued inequality is sad.

Justice wrote on Jun 10, 2008 7:16 AM:As previous bloggers have indicated, the issue at hand is recognition and acceptance of gays and lesbians in our society which will inevitably happen as it did for women and minorities. These individuals in the miltary are actually contributing more to this country than most Americans. We can't ask or they can't tell but they can die for this country just as well as any heterosexual can.

How come in the bible... wrote on Jun 10, 2008 8:24 AM:men have more than one wife? Christian types say God made marriage between One man and one woman? Was God taking a day off in the Old testament? Is not the BIBLE the WORD OF GOD? or maybe right wing christian types are keeping us from God's word and not letting us marry as HE ordained through his word as contained in the Old Testament? I say let;s get back to MARRIAGE as God intended....one man, many wives!

to so why tell wrote on Jun 10, 2008 9:44 AM:they aren't looking for "special" rights. just EQUAL ones. go figure, huh? what a strange concept!

heres the truth wrote on Jun 10, 2008 9:46 AM:There's a group of soldiers sadly attacked while on duty in Iraq. All but 2 are killed in battle. In their last moments these troops pull out the pictures of their wives/girlfriends back home and die knowing they're loved. One soldier pulls out a picture of his husband/boyfriend and also knows he's loved. Fortunately one straight and the gay soldier survive but the straight soldier, being UNCOMFORTABLE that his fellow soldier is gay reports the picture to his commanding officer. The gay soldier is then kicked out of the military, with no honorable discharge, no respect...no love. Tell me, how is that fair?

To Not The Same wrote on Jun 10, 2008 9:54 AM:"Same sex marriage is not gay marriage. Homosexuals have never been denied the right to marry. Homosexual men have always been able to marry women, and lesbians could always marry men. And everyone has the right to do what they want in their bedroom. So who's not being treated equally?" - Not The Same

Response: ALL of those people in your scenario are not being treated equally! a gay man with a straight woman or a lesbian with a straight man... all of those people are being kept away from real love. If you truly believe that forced/false marriage between a man and a woman who don't love each other is better than a same-sex marriage based on love than you my friend are truly cold-hearted and arrogant. It's people like you who should be denied the right to wed.

Just a thought... wrote on Jun 10, 2008 10:09 AM:When you join the military you sign papers and pretty much hand over your life to them. If they say jump you say how High. Being in the military is a choice. If you are a gay/lesbian in the military you made the choice Knowing fully that the military has this policy. If you have a problem with it DON'T join. The military has many other policies that are over looked by many...do you see us complaining about those? Sexual orientation is a choice, so is joining the military.

Reference wrote on Jun 10, 2008 10:35 AM:Out of the new testament...

Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders
1 Corinthians 6:8-10 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 6 (Whole Chapter)

Reference wrote on Jun 10, 2008 10:47 AM:If God had meant for a man and man/woman and woman to be together he would not have decreed to Noah to bring a male and female of every species on the Ark with him. The reason for this, you might say was for reproduction only. And with your counter I say, exactly, man was meant to only lay with woman, not with another man.

Now for those that do not have faith or believe in the Lord, you will denounce all of this. For you, I pray that the Lord will touch you in some way so that you will begin to have faith and believe in the Lord almighty.

who cares what the bible says wrote on Jun 10, 2008 10:56 AM:This all boils down to religious nonsense. Try as they may, those who wish to ban gay marriage, gays in the military gays in space etc are just forcing their religion down everybody else's throats. In November we'll have a ballot initiative and the anti-gay marriage folks will word it so religion isn't mentioned but always implied. It won't pass but it is an example of religious zealots trying to force their beliefson everyone else.

There is no scientifically-derived proof that god exists. Or that there is a afterlife or that some mysterious force created the earth. Faith can explain those things, which is fine,but it is not proven FACT. Social policy shouldn't be faith-based, especially when the faith (Christianity) it is based on is bigoted, contradictory, and inherently sexist. ONLY science and reason can improve society, religion merely divides us. E-mail me if you disagree, I don't mind.

Hey Reference... wrote on Jun 10, 2008 10:56 AM:How many gay men are married to homosexual women and hiding out in your church?!!

To Just a thought... wrote on Jun 10, 2008 10:58 AM:You are absolutely incorrect when you say that sexual orientation is a choice. There are many professional medical groups (The American Psychological Association, The American Psychiatric Association and The National Association of Social Workers to name a few) that disagree with your claim of sexual orientation being a choice. There is a substantial amount of research to support their conclusions. Sexual orientation may be brought on by the environment in which a person develops, and/or may be attributed to a possible genetic predisposition. You are basing your comments off of unfounded claims. As for joining the military, you are correct by saying it is a choice. One that can have fatal consequences. However, there are thousands of individuals, who still bravely enlist in the military every year. We live in a great country that has afforded a better life to many people. There is no greater way of showing one's appreciation and gratitude for this country than serving. In a time when our President is keeping troops in two war-torn countries, and talking about possibly invading a third, our country needs all able-bodied individuals wanting to serve. Gays and lesbians only ask for equality, not special rights. They are not second-class citizens. Every human being deserves to be treated with dignity and respect, including yourself "Just a thought."

Re Reference wrote on Jun 10, 2008 11:02 AM:Not everybody agrees with your Bible. We live in a country that unites under the United States Constitution. This great document affords equal protection to ALL citizens under the law (14th Amendment). Just because your holy book may be the way by which you operate your life, it isn't one that the complete rest of the population follows.

To Reference wrote on Jun 10, 2008 11:17 AM:...and how is this relevant to California law?
Kindly keep your belief out of my life.

To the Gays wrote on Jun 10, 2008 11:37 AM:Please keep your life styles to yourself as it offends me. Normal people keep their bedroom doors closed.

To who cares what the Bible says wrote on Jun 10, 2008 11:41 AM:This is not the place to begin debating the whole science/religion issue... but here's some food for thought before you start denouncing faith: you can't scientifically prove that science works... ultimately, you have to put your "faith" in empirical analysis and reason. Read Thomas Kuhn's "The Structure of Scientific Revolutions" for a closer look at this issue.

About gays in the military... I think I agree with Chuck -- I'd hate to be sharing a shower with people who get turned on by seeing me naked. And "Just a Thought" was right -- it IS a choice.

Reference wrote on Jun 10, 2008 11:43 AM:who cares what the bible says
[-] wrote on Jun 10, 2008 10:56 AM:
This all boils down to religious nonsense...just forcing their religion down everybody else's throats. It won't pass but it is an example of religious zealots trying to force their beliefson everyone else.

In response to this, but yet, you are trying to force down my throat that there HAS to be a scientific proof for everything that exists in this world.

I do not try to force anything down anyone's throat, just providing more information.

As for gay men being married to homosexual women in my church, I don't know because I don't go around trying to find out to flog them or ban them. I just pray that God touches their hearts to convict them for those things they are doing that go against his word.

I have faith and believe in the word of God. Others do not and that is their choice, but they does not give them the right to push religion to the way side because they don't believe in it. Love concurs a multitude of sins, and if we show compassion to everyone, as Jesus did then there would be a lot less hate in this world. Jesus was not a bigot. But Jesus did teach the word of his father and informed people of those things they were doing that went against the word of his father so that they may have everlasting salvation. Jesus was crucified (is proven to be true) and was raised from his grave 3 days later (also proven). There are many things that are stated in the Bible that scientists can not prove, nor do they try to because they have admitted there is no scientific answer to it, but they can not dispute it either.

This is an issue that we will have to agree to disagree on.

csihoni wrote on Jun 10, 2008 11:44 AM:Thank you "who cares" finally a voice of reason to light up the ....well you know!

Reference wrote on Jun 10, 2008 11:45 AM:To Reference
[-] wrote on Jun 10, 2008 11:17 AM:
...and how is this relevant to California law?
Kindly keep your belief out of my life.

But yet you expect me to accept your beliefs and let it be a part of my life? Is this not hypocritical?

csihoni wrote on Jun 10, 2008 11:45 AM:Thank you "Who cares" finally a voice of reason to... well, you know.

To NCT wrote on Jun 10, 2008 12:19 PM:Why is the NCT duplicating posts on several subjucts today, and others are not even put in?

Ive Read Kuhn wrote on Jun 10, 2008 1:03 PM:and I stand by my words. I have great FAITH in scientifically derived knowledge. That's why I go to a doctor and not a priest when I'm ill.

Some people of (zealous) faith, on the other hand, want it both ways: religion and science. They seek to base social policy on articles of faith (i.e. anti-gay marriage) but they are not so "faithful" as to go to priest when they are ill instead a doctor. Hey, if you're a religious person, good for you. Just stay out of social meddling since you have no basis other than your beliefs. Furthermore, try and be a bit consistent in your everyday lives will ya? Pray to Jesus to heal your strep throat. Ask god to fix your car. You don't because religious beliefs can't do anything about matters dealing with reality.

Timothy wrote on Jun 10, 2008 1:47 PM:To the "It's a Choice" crowd:

Not only do ALL mental health and medical organizations disagree with you, but so too do most churches. Including, I might add, the Southern Baptist Church. There may be disagreement about the origins of sexual orientation, but all persons who have studied the issue, conservative or liberal, religious or secular, agree. Same sex attractions are not the result of choice.

Of course, those who base their beliefs on ignorance, bigotry, and the foolish notion that they can just declare something to be and thus make it so, those folks still believe orientation is a choice.

Timothy wrote on Jun 10, 2008 1:53 PM:To those who believe that their religion trumps all disagreement:

You do know, don't you, that this country allows for differing religious views? And you are aware, I'm sure, that a great many Christian churches disagree with the one you attend.

In fact, a study from a conservative religious research group (LifeWay) revealed that HALF of Americans do not consider homosexuality to be a sin. That includes 55% of Catholics and 31% of Protestants.

What's more, half of non-Church goers would not even visit a church if it was anti-gay.

So your own personal belief is that. And you are welcome to it.

But we don't make policy decisions based on someone things is sin. And you anti-gays should be happy about that. Because you are rather quickly becoming the minority in this country.

Paco wrote on Jun 10, 2008 2:00 PM:I am a straight male who is serving on Active Duty. I do not agree with homosexuality at all, but I do not have a problem serving with openly admitting gays. We know who the majority of the gay people are in the military and could care less. I don't care about taking a shower with a gay person because it does not matter. Because I am married, I would deal with a gay man the same way I would with a woman who would try to hit on me. I would put a stop to it. Although I do not believe with gay marriage, I do believe in civil unions. The difference is semantics. Marriage has traditionally been a religious event. It has been taken over as a legal issue. I would grant full civil unions to those who want to have all the same rights as heterosexuals. Like I said, it's all in semantics.

Oh Reference.. wrote on Jun 10, 2008 2:22 PM:It must be comforting to have faith in absolutes. What you believe is your business, but the intellectual arguement you offer is suspect. You claim to have faith and believe in the word of god, but what word and which god? Regardless of the god you choose to put your faith in, it's word, as interpreted by humans has changed many times over the centuries. Clearly, there are aspects of the bible, the koran and other religious texts that are clearly not relevant or applicable today. There is no need to use science to point this out. I may be an athiest, but I know many very religious people, and they all agree that faith is a living, breathing, and organic concept. They seem to think that faith should not be encumbered by the dogma of the past, but should be continually re-evaluated and tested against the realities of the modern world. If faith is never tested, then it can never be real. Some of these people are scientists who insist that there should be a scientific answer for everything! Given this, having two people who love each other and want to share their life together and have that love recognized by their peers and their community should be able to do so. I'm sure Jesus would have come to this conclusion irrespective of the dogma his movement created after his death. So I disagree that anyone is pushing anything down your throat. If anything, I don't think you have adequately explored the depth of your faith otherwise you would have come up with the right conclusiuon.

The more gays the better wrote on Jun 10, 2008 4:32 PM:The whole lot of you can be gay for all I care, That just leaves more girls for me, and I need all the advantage I can get!!

Karl wrote on Jun 10, 2008 5:22 PM:This is so much crap. Let the gays marry each other, be happy and we will be relieved from one of the thousand minority groups that have a complaint against the old white guys.

Tuck wrote on Jun 10, 2008 5:47 PM:Who really cares about this? This is a divisive issue, yet it impacts so few of us. Only 10% of the population is gay. Why do they get so much attention?

Steve wrote on Jun 17, 2008 2:59 AM:Timothy,
Thank you for your insightful comments.
Finally a man with compassion and good sense.
Steve

Jarod wrote on Jun 17, 2008 3:01 AM:Only men who are insecure with their sexuality would be afraid to shower next to a gay man.
Get over yourselves, you are not all that.

Roger wrote on Jun 26, 2008 1:27 PM:I am in the military and the current policy is fine. Do not try to fix what is not broken. There are gays and straights and no one has to worry just do your job and go home at the end of the day!

bohemianrob wrote on Jul 29, 2008 1:35 AM:well, i find this blog very interesting by far. I am a 33 year old bisexual married man with three sons. I am considering joining some branch of the military soon. I am not a practicing bisexual man, i love my wife and three sons very much. Now i am sure you all might ask "how can you admit you are bisexual and have a wife and three sons" well before my family life, i was a practicing bisexual man, i considering bisexuality a universal way of living. we love both men and women equally. I just so happen in the end to fall in in love with a woman vs. a man. I than decided to have three children which whom i love very much. So with everything that i have read here is just mind boggling. it's interesting to hear so many points of view. where does that make me stand? should i not enlist in the military? because of the ridicule i might receive. people meet me and automatically assume i am gay, but than they find out that i am happily married with three sons, and they are like "oh, my bad"... i don't know.. my father was military, and served in vietnam, and it has taken me awhile to actually realize that i might want to follow in his steps. my thoughts are as follows: I believe that if any one person, no matter sexual orientation, ethnic backround, religious preference, anything that makes a person stand out to the next person should be allowed the same rights as the person who looks at them differently. we are all american citizens, and we should have all the same equal rights, bottom line. those of you who think differently in my opinion are not true americans, because if you were, you would stand behind everything your country has allowed to be in this great country of ours.

Amanda wrote on Nov 24, 2008 1:39 AM:Well all this is quite interesting. Lets hear from the other side shall we? I am a lesbian in the marine corps. Everyday i see gays and straight serving together. The straight population might now know what we go through. so i will tell you. straight people can get married and live together. we cant. if your not married or have any kids then you have to live in the barracks. how is a gay person able to have a relationship with someone if they cant even get a place together? and then theres the extra money you get for having a dependent. gays dont get that money. no way of supporting our significant others. what if we want children. two lesbian women cannot have a child together in the military and neither can a gay couple. talk about fair. that doesnt sound fair to me. i have been under investigation twice for homosexual conduct because of the way i dress and my short haircut. is that any reason to kick someone out? because i wear jeans and a button up shirt? there is no justice in the dont ask dont tell policy. the time for change is now people! we fight for the constitution and all the rights that are mentioned in it. is it not fair that we too reap the benefits of this wonderful democracy?