Floyd wrote on Jun 17, 2008 9:25 PM:Now wait a minute. Single engine airplanes are okay in the daytime but not after sunset just in case "one of the engines fails while flying at night"? What evidence does the CalFire chief have that airplane engines cannot fail in the daytime? What am I missing here?

Floyd wrote on Jun 17, 2008 9:31 PM:If CalFire is concerned that pilots from remote locations (such as MCAS Miramar or North Island) might not be familiar with the terrain, maybe they should schedule some "practice ops" in September just before the fire season begins. When the inevitable santa-ana kicks up some flames, CalFire can flee the unsafe situation while leaving their equipment behind so that our trained firefighters, volunteers and military personnel can fight the conflagration unimpeded by CalFire's bureaucratic rules.

Albert wrote on Jun 17, 2008 10:30 PM:Seems you're missing remedial reading skills. Twin engine planes can fly with one engine if the other one fails, that’s why they need twins for night flying.

Single engine planes are the same day or night and the engines have just as much chance of stalling at either time.

The difference is that during the day the sun is out (making the ground visible) so if the single engine plane has to make an emergency landing the pilot can look for a flat spot to land instead of flying into the side of a hill or somebody’s bedroom like they might do at night (When the sun is gone and it’s dark out Floyd).

The chip on your shoulder for CalFire is obvious, but you should at least read and think a bit before posting.

Floyd wrote on Jun 17, 2008 11:11 PM:My opinion of CalFire is based on CalFire's performance to date.

Michael wrote on Jun 18, 2008 6:13 AM:All the county is doing is trying to piece meal a fire department together. Work towards a county department for the county and not the cities. Aircraft alone is not the answer. CalFire is doing more in this county then anyone else. They cover all areas not in city limits and respond to all types of emergencies and fires. Without them, this county would be in big trouble and the county board will not admit that.

Walt wrote on Jun 18, 2008 6:23 AM:A useful small step for getting at fires before control is lost.
But it is disgraceful that this technology-orientd country is not attacking the wildfire issue forcefully. Over 30 years ago the Forest Service was shown how to make all weather attacks on the origin of fires before contol was lost. Satellite IR imaging was one feature cutting down the response time. If we can attack safe houses, or individual automobiles in Iraq with unmanned aircraft controlled at a desk in Omaha we should be able to really prevent wildfire disasters instead of just reacting to them. With its recent losses, San Diego is in a strong position to wake up the national system.

Al wrote on Jun 18, 2008 6:46 AM:"We're starting to put together a laundry list of things that would be needed, including equipment, staffing, training and infrastructure," Payne said.

Wow! Since 2003, we are finally thinking about starting to address the night flying problem? Your government in action. And people want more government to protect them? Get real. People need to take care of themselves and not ask government to do it for them.

Not So Easy wrote on Jun 18, 2008 7:25 AM:"Jacob said she recognized that there were "inherent risks" involved in flying in the dark, but added that it can be done safely."

35 years ago my father (USFS) helped develop the early use of dropping retardant at night using the FLIR system. Working with the LA Co. Fire Dept. flying Hueys, they were able to develop a program that made it possible to attack fire in limited situations. I'm not so sure, as Jacob says, that this can be done safely in all fires. In fact, on one of the early involvements (the Unknown Fire on the Angeles Forest) a veteran pilot landed on top of another while attempting to reload on a mountain road. One pilot was killed, another seriously injured. Politicians tend to talk witout thinking.

TheGunny wrote on Jun 18, 2008 8:33 AM:Ah yes the posturing by the Stupidvisors has begun. If it's not bad enough when the politicians get into the fire operations and tell us where to and not to go (Mayor Sanders and Poway's City Manager) they are now going to use their VAST knowledge of air assets to make demands of the state and Feds? For God's sake just get the San Diego County Fire Dept off the ground and quit screwing off with the airplanes!
Planes do NOT put the fire out. Planes SUPPORT the ground pounders, not the other way around.

James wrote on Jun 18, 2008 8:38 AM:Firefighting services exist to protect the interests of insurance companies. Taxpayers get the bill.

To James wrote on Jun 18, 2008 9:24 AM:Your post is narrow minded,and very shallow in substance. What is your evidence that Firefighters work for the interest of corporate insurance and not the safety/welfare of those in which they protect?

dave wrote on Jun 18, 2008 10:02 AM:What happened to the pkan to put water baloons in boxes and dump them out the back door od a c130. It done at a higher altitude and the water does not disburse until impact

Plain and Simple wrote on Jun 18, 2008 10:04 AM:It is much easier to make an emergency landing in the day light. Also, bare in mind these pilots are not taking a joy ride they are trying to get as close to the ground as possible. This is tough enough in mountains and canyons with shifting winds during the day let alone at night where you can't see. How about the experts in night flying, Supervisor Pam Slater-Price, and Supervisor Dianne Jacob, jump in at night and see how it is. Better bring a huge barf bag. Sounds like Pam and Dianne find it easy to put someone elses life at risk while they are in the easy chair watching TV.

Floyd wrote on Jun 18, 2008 10:16 AM:During the last fire season, I saw lots of news coverge showing planes and helicopters dowsing fires. How out-of-touch can you be when you claim "planes do NOT put the fire out"? Do you, by any chance, happen to work for CalFire?

The Supers wrote on Jun 18, 2008 10:42 AM:should spend more time helping the ones who lost their homes get them rebuilt around all the red tape the Supers have created. Let the firefighters fight the fires and you help those that can't get around your obstacles! It is hard to believe folks are still trying to get permits etc to rebuild. Where is the representation?

To Floyd wrote on Jun 18, 2008 11:28 AM:I think you need to use head. When the wind is blowing extremely hard planes have a problem. Plus while flying at night are you able to see any telephone/electric pole or wires. There are also firefighter, handcrews and equipment operator that work on the ground at night. Fire personnel put their lifes on the line not to get injuried of killed by a water or retardant drop.

Floyd wrote on Jun 18, 2008 11:54 AM:Of course I'm using my head, which is why I challenged the claim by the CalFire chief that airplane engine failure is caused by "night". This level of stupidity appears to be normal for CalFire administrators and is an excellent reason for them to let us use their equipment during fire season while they stay home until it is safe to come out.

Floyd wrote on Jun 18, 2008 11:59 AM:Of course I'm using my head. That's why I'm challenging CalFire Chief's claim that aircraft engine failure is caused by "night". This sort of stupidly appears to be normal for CalFire administrators. This is why they should move their equipment here during the October/November fire season but stay home so our trained firefighters, volunteers, and military personnel can use it to fight the fire effectively. The last thing we need is more CalFire mismanagement during a fire.

Not in My Job Description wrote on Jun 18, 2008 12:22 PM:The July '08 Nat'l Geographic has a good article about fire. Take a look at the photos and decide yourself whether you want to stay put and protect your home with a garden hose next time. Leave fire decisions to the experts. Flying in 70+mph winds at night, trying to drop your load accurately, good luck.

Walt wrote on Jun 18, 2008 12:47 PM:For Dave; 30 years ago this was done with 100's of balloons about hen's egg size. Helps to disperse the retardent more uniformly, and yes from higher safer altitude. The balloons were biodegradable. Tests were run to show such an egg impact on a human head is uncomfortable but not life threatening.
Just one of the ideas that in turn has been "dropped" because continuing "wisdom" is aircraft help ground crews rather than vice versa.Recent stories about much larger container drops, (by Boeing I believe), show effort in the right direction, but probably excessive size containers.

JF wrote on Jun 18, 2008 4:48 PM:Floyd, so you saw news coverage of planes and helos "dowsing" (sic) fires. Did it occur to you that after the camera goes away the flames kick back up? Drops without ground back up are a waste of money and an unnecessary risk.

And in case it isn't obvious, the CAL FIRE official never said that night causes engine failure. He said, "in order to make them safer if one of the engines fails while flying at night". Obviously, the engine can also fail during the day. But it's a heck of a lot easier to find an emergency landing spot during the day.