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REGION: Property tax measure considered for fire resources
November ballot may be too soon, some officials say
By EDWARD SIFUENTES - Staff Writer | ∞
SAN DIEGO ---- A proposed property tax to pay for county fire resources raised more questions than answers during a meeting Friday, where it was discussed publicly for the first time.
The tax would raise between $25 million and $100 million a year, depending on the levy amount, according to officials with the Regional Fire Protection Committee, a panel of elected officials and fire chiefs formed after the 2007 wildfires to study fire protection for the region.
County Supervisor Ron Roberts, who chairs the committee with San Diego Mayor Jerry Sanders, said he wants the measure on the November ballot. Approval of the 30-year measure would require two-thirds of the county's voters agreeing to pay.
The parcel tax proposal comes on the heels of a landmark vote earlier this week to merge 12 rural fire departments.
On Wednesday, the county Board of Supervisors voted to reorganize the agencies by 2012. The plan is expected to be the first step in reorganizing the region's fragmented and underfunded firefighting resources.
The ballot measure would also create a joint powers authority that would manage the tax revenue, provide regional fire protection primarily through a fleet of firefighting aircraft, and improve agency communication during an emergency, officials said.
However, members of the committee raised numerous questions, including:
-- Can the proposal can be written in time?
-- How would each property be taxed?
-- How much would be used to fund the regional fire authority?
-- How much would existing fire agencies get?
To answer those questions, a subcommittee made up of Roberts, Sanders, Carlsbad fire Chief Kevin Crawford and San Diego fire Chief Tracy Jarman was established to come up with answers and report their findings at the panel's next meeting in two weeks.
Supervisor Dianne Jacob, whose East County district includes some of the hardest-hit areas in the 2003 and 2007 wildfires, expressed doubts about whether the work could be completed in time.
The ballot measure would have to be approved by the Board of Supervisors and submitted to election officials by Aug. 8 to be eligible for the November election.
Committee members also raised concerns about whether there would be enough time to persuade voters, who have turned down similar tax proposals in recent years.
"If we fail, we've lost that opportunity," Jacob said. "I want us to have the best possible chance."
Some fire officials, who said they support the concept of a property tax to raise revenues for fire protection, expressed other concerns.
Mark Baker, president of the San Diego County Fire Districts Association, said other ballot measures seeking revenues for school districts, cities and fire departments will crowd the November ballot. Faced with those, he said, voters may turn their backs on a regional tax proposal.
The tax plan presented by county Counsel John Sansone would impose an undetermined amount on all county land parcels. The amount would increase each year based on a cost of living adjustment or by 2 percent, whichever is less.
If it's put on the ballot and approved, the tax would begin July 1, 2009. The money would be used to buy firefighting equipment and communications equipment, improve fire stations, and fund the regional fire joint powers authority.
The authority would serve all areas of the county, but it would not supplant existing fire departments.
Roberts, one of the main proponents of the parcel tax, said that he was optimistic that the ballot measure could be written in time. He also expressed optimism that voters would approve it.
"If there is a more important issue than what we're dealing with here, I don't know what it is," Roberts said.
Contact staff writer Edward Sifuentes at (760) 740-3511 or esifuentes@nctimes.com.
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wait wrote on Jun 27, 2008 8:18 PM:Don't we already pay taxes for fire protection? I thought all the development in San Diego was suppose to make all the governments rich and bring better infrastructure and pay for improved services. What happened?
Terry wrote on Jun 27, 2008 8:36 PM:I feel an increase in sales tax would be more effective and not put anymore hardship on property owners.
Mary wrote on Jun 27, 2008 9:14 PM:Absolutely not. We don't need more union jobs that don't do anything more than border patrol. In 2007 if the winds continued the fire would have hit the ocean. More freeloading high paid firefighter and gas wasting big old paramedic engines will not give any more protection. I will vote NO.
I miss true GOP wrote on Jun 27, 2008 9:16 PM:Republicans have lost their way. Its time for a new party formed by Ron Paul
Ralph wrote on Jun 27, 2008 9:17 PM:Just what we need. Even more plush firestations. Man- what a waste.
Its only money wrote on Jun 27, 2008 9:27 PM:Keep the taxes coming.
Part of our taxes already go to fire, but the budget cannot be maintained, tax us some more.
Part of our many taxes already go to highways, but the budget cannot be maintained, tax us some more.
Its only money, keep it coming.
Escondeeter wrote on Jun 27, 2008 10:09 PM:If this really is a tax on every parcel in the county, that means that property owners in the incorporated cities would be double taxed to pay for fire service not only for themselves, but for the unincorporated areas of the county. They'll pay for their own fire department, then they'll pay for some else's departmebnt too. That's a gold plated guarantee that the measure will fail at the ballot box.
Any measure that tries to force the 'haves' to subsidize the 'have nots' isn't going to get a 2/3 vote. They need to put this off until they can get it worked out properly. That's not going to happen in five weeks.
Sneaky sneaky wrote on Jun 27, 2008 10:39 PM:What a bunch of sneaky politicians. First they put out information that the tax is only for the county's unincorporated areas. Now the truth is out. The politicians want to tax everyone in the county. Sneaky, sneaky.
Old Timer wrote on Jun 27, 2008 11:01 PM:How about a 1/2 cent increase in the Sales tax to put sand on the beaches, then a 2% tax on hotels in Encinitas, and a tax on property owners for fire protection, then discuss how to raise the 1/2 cent tax to build roads, then maybe more school bonds, hospital bonds, environment bonds, water bonds. etc. etc. and We Get To Pay For It All.There is no end and there is no mercy....
Fire Hound wrote on Jun 27, 2008 11:12 PM:Two other additional STATE imposed taxes are already on the drawing board. First a $50 per home tax for pretty much anyone living outside of a city. And a second a tax on EVERY home and business insurance policy in the state. Both taxes will be used at the state level to make up for budget cuts and maybe buy some additional equipment. So lets consider a third tax by the county. That will fix it! Surely three taxes will be enough to stop those nasty fires from occuring! It would be very funny if it were not our money they were proposing to take from us.
Damn Fat Cat... wrote on Jun 28, 2008 12:41 AM:republicans are always looking for a tax to levy. And they're supposed to be the "lower taxes" party? I know I'm voting for Obama, he's gonna send those GOP shysters out of town on a RAIL!!
William wrote on Jun 28, 2008 12:52 AM:Why do they need more money when the procedure is to let the houses burn and get the people out. 900 plus house burned in one fire alone last year. Perhaps they should buy some gas trucks, fill them after the fires start and help the people who have no fuel, for one reason or another, get out of town.
It seems that every agency is jumping on the wagon with SANDAG and wanting to raise taxes as they see fit.
Perhaps we do need to put more money into fire fighting equipment, but boys, you are going to have to convince me that it is necessary, and that you are going to do a lot of good with it.
Taxes for the elitist wrote on Jun 28, 2008 3:25 AM:firefirghters? Not!!!! We already pay for fire protection on the property tax bills. I live in the county and am paying for three new fire houses in Escondido. Escondido doesn't protect my home the county is supposed to and that is questionable after the last fire. No reverse 911 call came to this residence. We sat, waited and watched the news and the hills to see if we were going to burn.
Paul wrote on Jun 28, 2008 5:59 AM:Deer Springs got a property tax for those living in their district to build and fund a new fire station. Now another tax! Time for a tea party!
George wrote on Jun 28, 2008 7:37 AM:Here we go again. Lets tax the elders out of their homes.. That is exactly why Prop 13 is in place. We are gathering the troops to Fight This Gov. abuse of the Seniors once again. We know the politicians are all millionares and the fire people get 100% of pay on retirement. I guess this is to make sure they are all millionares at retirement. Well the rest of the population can't afford to drive a car to work anymore... Yeah! lets get every dime. you crooks!!
Yokozuna wrote on Jun 28, 2008 7:39 AM:It seems these government agencies don't have a clue about the current economic situation. They need to quit adding programs or find ways to include them relative to their current incomes. That's what we citizens have to do.
Ann wrote on Jun 28, 2008 7:41 AM:We already pay for fire protection. In Encinitas we are getting ready to pay for ALL new fire stations. And now they want us to pay for another layer of highly paid bureaucrats called "The Regional Fire Joint Powers Authority"! Enough is enough. NO already !
Lizzy wrote on Jun 28, 2008 8:55 AM:It's only fair if we tax just the property owners who live in high fire areas. Why should someone living along the coast pay for fire protection that they will probably never need?
Prop anyone wrote on Jun 28, 2008 9:10 AM:We passed Prop 172, a 1/2 cent sales tax for this purpose and these same Supervisors funnelled that money into other uses! Now they want to tax CITY resident's who aleady pay for their CITY fire services to subsidize the unincorporated county area? NO WAY!!!
Michael wrote on Jun 28, 2008 10:02 AM:This is why you form a county fire department. If you live in the ares now covered by CalFire and the Volunteer Stations you pay for that. If you live in city covered areas, you pay for that. SIMPLE!
TO MARY wrote on Jun 28, 2008 11:36 AM:Mary, YOU THINK FIREFIGHTERS ARE HIGHLY PAID?? THINK AGAIN. GO LOOK AT THE FACTS BEFORE YOU WRITE STUFF ON HERE. IS RISKING YOUR LIFE ON A DAILY BASIS, GOING TO SCHOOL AND PAYING FOR PARAMEDIC SCHOOL OUT OF YOUR OWN POCKET, BEING AWAY FROM YOUR FAMILY FOR 24 HOURS AT A TIME WORTH 30,000-40,000 DOLLARS A YEAR? NO IT ISNT, BUT THE FIREFIGHTERS DO IT BECAUSE THEY LIKE HELPING OTHERS. WHY DONT YOU GO TO A FIRE STATION AND SEE HOW A DAY IN THE LIFE OF A FIREFIGHTER IS. FIREFIGHTERS DESERVE MORE MONEY, BUT THEY KNOW THEY WILL NEVER GET IT. BUT YOU KNOW, FIREFIGHTERS ARE OK WITH THAT. WHAT DO YOU DO FOR A LIVING? MAKE ALOT OF MONEY TO SIT BEHIND A DESK ALL SAY IN AIR CONDITIONING AND THEN GO HOME AND SLEEP IN YOUR OWN BED EVERY NIGHT? IF YOU EVER GET SICK OR INJURED, WHY DONT YOU DRIVE YOURSELF TO THE HOSPITAL INSTEAD OF CALLING THE FREELOADING FIREFIGHTERS TO COME TO YOUR HOUSE IN THE BIG OLD GAS WASTING PARAMEDIC ENGINES... THANKS, IT WOULD MAKE OUR JOB EASIER!
Why raise taxes... wrote on Jun 28, 2008 11:36 AM:the problem is the idiots in Sacramento can't balance the money they already have. All the money goes into the politicians pockets not for Californians. Unless your counting the welfare, between the two there is no money left for anything......
Sunny wrote on Jun 28, 2008 12:38 PM:I agree with Paul - it's time for another Tea Party! To Damn Fat Cat: Obama will NOT lower taxes - his plan is to increase all of them - he is a socialist. Perhaps you should pay closer attention to what the man is really saying, er, what his puppetmasters are saying.
Rancho Santa Fe Homeowner wrote on Jun 28, 2008 1:36 PM:I'm all for it if it means people who live in the city help me pay for fire protection for my home.
Double Charge wrote on Jun 28, 2008 2:25 PM:They will tax us for fire protection by property tax and then they will bill us if in an emergency occurs on your property. We don't need a monolithic county fire agency.
Waste of Money wrote on Jun 28, 2008 2:35 PM:Why do all these city fire depts. have to send out a half million dollar fire engine that costs ten bucks a mile to a skateboard accident or a two bicycle pileup? They are proven inefficient. The county and incorporated cities will go broke if there is a single county fire agency. It's not their salaries, it's all the junk they buy.
To Mary wrote on Jun 28, 2008 2:36 PM:I'm a Capt. / Paramedic. When you need any assistance on the road, in your home...please, don't call us. :) Same for your entire family.
But wait! When you need us...if your home (mobile) is burning, a family member is in need...we can negotiate a price for payment before we render our services to you.
You're pathetic!
Bruce wrote on Jun 28, 2008 2:49 PM:More money is not the solution, better management is!
Get these idiots out of office and put some leadership, REAL leadership in office...enough of the stealing under the guise of taxes...I don't care if they call themselves Democrats or Republicans, it always ends up the same. We need a third party, Independents unite!
I know one wrote on Jun 28, 2008 3:24 PM:Quote from article: "If there is a more important issue than what we're dealing with here, I don't know what it is," Roberts said. Well, I know one and hope othes agree it is the most important of all, even above fire protection: SCHOOLS, EDUCATION! Lack of it has gotten us i the mess you're trying to dig out of. California ranks dead last of the 50 states - our children have suffered long enough. Tax us, fine, but use it for education!
Karl wrote on Jun 28, 2008 5:13 PM:TO MARY
[-] wrote on Jun 28, 2008 11:36 AM:
You chose the profession so get of the lecturn. 30k to 40k maybe as a starting pay or if you work in Mayberry. Lying about pay will get you no sympathy here.
Karl wrote on Jun 28, 2008 7:21 PM:To Mary
[-] wrote on Jun 28, 2008 2:36 PM:
So much for taking the high road.
Mary wrote on Jun 28, 2008 10:43 PM:To both To Mary's -
You are both pathetic. Most firefighters earn over $100k without a college degree. You both hit the lottery.
More than 1000 people will gladly take your job for much lower pay. The Gov unions paying off the elected officials are the only thing keeping your pay so high.
You both are milking the public at the expense of us tax payers.
I say no union fire districts. then we will see true fire protection benefits at the true cost.
Let freedom ring!
To Mary wrote on Jun 29, 2008 3:15 AM:Once again, your ignorance is showing. More than a 1000 people would gladly take my job? The number is probably higher.
A firefighter that makes the figures your mentioning...he or she is working alot of overtime. You dislike unions? Thats apparently clear to me. In other words, your career is in a stalemate. You lack the benefits that I have. :) Thats not my fault. Quite true, I will fight to sustain the benefits that I have.
Don't call us Mary. My 5th grade education...well, I can easily relax in my comforter while you remain in need. You see, I get paid either way.
For the rest of you folks, my degree and I will risk our lives for you and your family. My brothers and sisters will respond and truth be known; we'll risk our lives for you and your children.
sdiacc wrote on Jun 29, 2008 10:06 AM:To you ff's responding to these uneducated views of the fire service. trust me when I say this: YOU do have the support of the majority, we just need to make sure we get the majority above 66%. These blogs are of the complaining minority. Then you will have the personnel and equipment you need to get the work done,including daily practice and medical aids. As for you uneducated people, look north and you will find out how underpaid and understaffed the SD fire service is. Wake up SD WE need to start paying for this important service.
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