Give me a break wrote on Jul 6, 2008 5:40 AM:Every day a new group with a new expert comes out to spout off on this topic.

If "Minutemen" weren't funny enough, now we have Vista Citizens Brigade.

Mikey, what title do you hold in that outfit, Major General or Admiral of the SUV Fleet?

Jeez.

Gulf of Mexico wrote on Jul 6, 2008 7:25 AM:Spencer doesn't seem to know that about half of those illegally in the country came here legally and overstayed their visas. This means they underwent the criminal, health and other background checks. He tries to scare parents about TB, but cites no statistics or studies to back up his ominous inference. Strangely he says that those without documents are more involved in gang crimes "either as suspects or victims". But studies based on the 2000 census show that immigrants with and without documents were incarcerated in jails and prisons at about 1/3 the rate of native-born citizens. He notes that legal immigrants must show financial self-sufficiency, but ignores the temporary visa programs for poor workers, and the economy's need for millions more, which draws impoverished people here like a magnet. Lastly, he acts like they use resources but do not contribute to the economy. But most economic studies show that they pay taxes, spend, and contribute far more than they take out. We owe our privileged way of life to these poor workers who aren't allowed to enter or stay legally. Our immigration laws do not conform to economic realities.

M A ... wrote on Jul 6, 2008 8:16 AM:Michael Spencer: Great article ,keep
up the good work to take back Vista!

Gulf of Mexico wrote on Jul 6, 2008 8:24 AM:Two more things: 1) Most people who oppose the Minuteman-types are NOT "open borders advocates". 2) Although they pretend they are't against Hispanics or legal immigrants, most Minuteman actions are directed at day laborers, many of whom are here legally.

Hes Right wrote on Jul 6, 2008 8:35 AM:The author is right. That illegal immigrant kid that sits next to your kid in school probably has not been vaccinated, and could be carrying tuberculosis. It's a shame that you won't find out about it until your kid is in the hospital, sick - maybe dying. What's more infuriating is that the school district will protect the privacy of that illegal immigrant kid over the health and safety of the entire school population. Teachers - do you realize that you are exposing yourselves to deadly diseases now that you have won the war to educate 'every child' regardless of citizenship? And for those of you who think vaccination records can't be forged - keep this in mind - they forge the documents necessary to prove residency for admission into the school or working - forging vaccination records is a piece of cake.

Irene legal immigrant wrote on Jul 6, 2008 9:15 AM:Good article. Go, ICE.

America Today wrote on Jul 6, 2008 9:24 AM:Great OP Ed piece. There is no way to justify illegals, people try and say the system is broken. It is a system to limit immigration not a floodgate to allow every pedro juan or maria in. Just because criminals cannot get in legally they say it is broken. More groups are needed, the Minutmen do a lot more than challenge day laborers, but smaller less media blasted groups are a good way to educate your local communities about this negative problem. I enjoy daily news about another batch of illegals being arrested and sent home or to prison, it means we are finally fixing the broken part of the immigration system, the enforcement part...

Teacher wrote on Jul 6, 2008 9:27 AM:Schools cannot by law ask what the legal status of a child is before they are enrolled. But, by law must present a record of immunizations prior to a child attending their first day of school.

Laurian wrote on Jul 6, 2008 9:29 AM:".....We owe our privileged way of life to these poor workers who aren't allowed to enter or stay legally....."

And do we also "owe" our "privileged" way of life to their wives here (who most likely don't work) and the multiple children they have (whom our taxpayer dollars support) and the extended families they bring over? I hardly think so.

You see, you can't have it both ways: on the one hand, you all comment how little money they work for, so how can they possible afford supporting a family of 4,5, or 6 on minimum wage? They certainly aren't able to afford OB & Delivery care, so exactly WHO is it you suppose pays for just that one faction alone? Ding ding ding---if you said, "Medi-Cal," you'd be correct. Now, just where do you suppose Medi-Cal gets funding? Hmmm?

How arrogant to think that U.S. citizens aren't capable of working. Did anyone notice just who were the ones working incredibly hard to save their communities during the recent flooding in the Midwest? (Hint: It wasn't massive groups of illegals from Latin America)

U.S. citizens are perfectly capable of taking care of themselves; they proved that long before any amnesties came along and will now do whatever it takes to save the sovereignty of this country. Illegals have no stake in this country and usually could care less about our values and laws because the goal for most of them is to provide a better life for when they go back to the mother country. Too many who have this "white guilt" going on have some romanticized notion that as soon as someone crosses our border they magically suddenly understand our culture, laws, and values. Right. People with little or no education coming from countries run by corruption and lawlessness can even begin to understand the USA? Use common sense for cryin' out loud. Look at how their very own countrymen who are already here treat them when they finally do cross the border (holding them in drop houses under filthy, inhumane conditions while extorting more money from family members, just for starters).

KB Thanks You Irene wrote on Jul 6, 2008 9:40 AM:for valuing and respecting America enough to immigrate legally. Welcome.
I think it would help to hear more from those who have immigrated LEGALLY.

Mike is Right wrote on Jul 6, 2008 9:43 AM:Mike Spencer's VCB has been a great success over the past two years. Its the reason we don't have a taxpayer funded hiring hall for illegal aliens. Its the reason 50 illegal aliens loiter in the Vons parking lot now instead of 125. Its the reason people need a hiring permit to hire illegal aliens (only in America) instead of just picking them up like common hookers. VCB is the reason hirings are way down at that large site.
Thanks Mike and all the members of the Vista Citizens Brigade!

To Mexico wrote on Jul 6, 2008 9:47 AM:Wrong! All studies show that almost all day laborers are illegal aliens. Just ask them. The anti-illegal immigration groups welcome all Americans of all ethnicities. VCB and SDMM have many great Mexican Americans and many LEGAL immigrants, but the pro-illegal alien activists really don't want you to know that. They are full of hate for America and Americans who stand up for this great country!

add to Laurian wrote on Jul 6, 2008 9:48 AM:you mean the "priveleged way of life," being consistently leered at, threatened and sexually harrassed while walking to the store? On Quince, I credit that to the acceptance of misogynistic cultures, of illegal immigration...

Robert wrote on Jul 6, 2008 9:50 AM:To "Gulf of Mexico"; I tend to believe Michael more than I believe you (you state no statistics or studies either!). All you need to do is take a look around to see the urinating in public, loitering, pandering, etc. No, I am sure they are not all illegal, but the majority of them are. And, if all of the supporters of this illegal activity did not promote it, then there would not be the need for Minutemen or the Vista Brigade, because we would not have the problem. We would also not need ESL classes in school to hold up the kids that came prepared (can speak English already) and are there to learn. We would not need free school lunch programs. We would not have the huge WIC program (look around one of these places and see who makes up the majority of folks in the line). Trying to rationalize the illegal activity by stating (again, with no back up) that "they do contribute most economic studies show that they pay taxes, spend, and contribute far more than they take out" is ludicrous! In fact, it is exactly this type of ridiculous rationalizing that the illegal immigrant supporters tend to use to make it all okay! The easy solution: welcome, legal immigrants! Go home, illegal aliens!

Great article, Michael! If we stay the course and don't back down, we will one day get our great Country back!

Vista Citizen wrote on Jul 6, 2008 10:15 AM:The truth is a stubborn thing. Mike nails it. One can argue this and that for illegal migration but facts against it are facts. Two root causes of illegal migration is the coming North American Union and the Mexican La Raza Reconquesta. Google it!

Citizen X wrote on Jul 6, 2008 10:17 AM:"Vast Gulf"? Its simple really, open up a dictionary and read the definition of "illegal". We should simply adopt the immigration laws of Mexico (very harsh and restrictive) and treat illegal aliens the same way that Mexico does (cruel and inhumane in most cases), then sit back a listen to the hypocrisy of our "neighbors" to the south while they whine about how their citizens are treated while commiting the same acts themselves! LEGAL immigration is wonderful and has contributed to the fabric of our great country. ILLEGAL immigration will destroy our nation.

Sharon wrote on Jul 6, 2008 10:17 AM:The US needs to change the law regarding citizenship at birth.

For example, just because one is born in Italy, does not make one an Italian. One has to show proof how/why they are Italian citizens.+

The same can be done here. If one is born here whose parents are NOT US citizens, then that child does not get US citizenship.


Irene -- WAY TO GO! Thank you, for doing it the correct way. May your dreams be fulfilled!

Asteroid wrote on Jul 6, 2008 10:26 AM:I notice that the Commissar General of the North County Forum gives “talks” on "Immigration Myths and Realities". Has anyone ever attended? Was the term illegal alien ever used? How many times did he refer to real American citizens as “anti-immigrant”? Great letter, I think I’ll be helping out with the Vista Citizens Brigade this year.

It amazes me wrote on Jul 6, 2008 10:30 AM:when there is a truthful article about illegal immigration in the paper the open borders activist attack with name calling and lies.

I have figured it out. When the truth hurts, immature people defend the hurt with name calling and lies.

This is a very true and accurate article regarding illegals aliens. Thank you Mr. spencer.

to Gulf wrote on Jul 6, 2008 10:40 AM:"half of those illegally in the country came here legally and overstayed their visas" Is this factual or just your personal opinion? The millions who violate US borders had visas? Ironically, where are the "statistics or studies to back up" your statement(s) - or is this just your biased opinion?

Those who come to the USA on a tourist visa are subject to "health... checks"? Since when? Reference?

All Illegal immigrants honestly participated in the 2000 census? Right....

Lumping rates of incarceration rates of both"immigrants with and without documents" (legal and illegal) is somehow a legitimate analysis? Aren't we concerned with illegal immigration as the article indicates?

Temporary visa programs are REGULATED unlike illegal immigration.

Illegal immigrants have no role in driving down wages?

The $25 billion of remittance to Mexico alone annually contribute the the US economy?

And if these people are such an economic asset why is Mexico letting them leave by the millions?

Who made possible our "privileged way of life" before 12-20 million illegal immigrants entered in violation of US laws?

Which "economic studies" show illegals give more than they take? Again, where are the "statistics or studies to back up" your statement? Or is this just another biased opinion that you accuse others of making?

If the illegals are so terribly exploited here why are they coming in massive hoards? (Hint - look south - where the real exploitation exists).

The US has done more to aid the welfare of illegal immigrants and the dysfunctional countries they flee than many deserve.

Unregulated illegal immigration does not conform to the best interest of the USA.

Dave... wrote on Jul 6, 2008 10:48 AM:Gulf, the same tired comments you make are finding less and less of an ear as the results of illegal immigration make themselves felt in such places as Central Escondido, Mexico. The illegals need to be run out and run out now, allowing rents to fall, and neighborhoods and schools to clean up.

Mr. Spencer is correct wrote on Jul 6, 2008 10:51 AM:Funny how just telling the truth and reciting the facts brings those who would propagate the dangerous lies that this truly out of control illegal alilen invasion is nothing more than oppressed people seeking a better life. Spencer has courage enough to stand up for his country against those who are trying to tear it down. Bill Flores, Tina Garcia-Jillings, Claudia Smith, Enrique Morones and Escondido City Council wannabe Olga Diaz, have all taken their turns at wronfully and maligning Mr. Spencer, the Minutemen (who the record shows have NEVER murdered or raped ANY illegals though illegals have murdered and raped MANY Americans, as the record shows!)and frankly, anyone who would speak the truth about the obvious destructive effects on so many levels of this terrible problem that effects ALL of us, including our children, in so many different ways. Thank you Mr. Spencer for your patriotic and selfless service. You are a hero and inspiration to many. BTW...I graduated w/high honors from a world famout University and still at middle age, I clean my toilets, mow my lawn and do all the other things that we hear only illegals, who are stealing these jobs from our teenagers, will do.

all factual.... wrote on Jul 6, 2008 11:05 AM:illegal aliens who come here and relocate or start families here are more burden to the American taxpayer then they are benefit. They bring down our schools, healthcare systems and abuse social service programs driving these programs deeper into debt, and we as the American Society continue to allow it to happen by re-electing those who will not enforce the laws of this nation, or the will of the people, these elected officials are constantly cow-towing and genuflecting to the special interests, a good example is Mayor Sanders's declaration of "La Raza Day" coming up to "honor" ... as they hold their convention here in San Diego.
Take away the magnet incentives, free social services, the free medical they get, automatic citizenship for their anchor babies, we need to stop rewarding illegal immigrants for breaking our U.S. Laws, until we take away the free incentives, the SSI benefits that their kids get until they are 18 simply because they are born here. There are people in Tecate who pick up their SSI checks for children born here by crossing the border, going to a P.O. Box, cashing them and going right back across the border...just as their kids cross the border to attend U.S. schools...

Michael wrote on Jul 6, 2008 11:39 AM:To Gulf of Mexico, who says "those who came here legally and overstayed their visas underwent the criminal, health and other background checks." Wrong!!! Those coming in on a tourist visa from Mexico get a quick scrutiny from a U.S. agent at one of our embassies in Mexico. That scrutiny includes only a very quick assessment of whether or not the Mexican citizen is likely to return to Mexico, or overstay the visa and remain in the US indefinitely. Questions like… Are you employed? Do you have money in a bank account? Do you own a house?…Basically, ties to Mexico that would make it unlikely for a tourist to remain unlawfully in the US. No criminal check. No health check whatsoever. The process takes about a minute, plus or minus.

El Guero wrote on Jul 6, 2008 11:47 AM:Thanks to Mike Spencer for providing such an airtight argument for enforcing the law. And to "Gulfo de Mexico" (8:24 am): Please tell us you're joking when you say, "Most people who oppose the Minuteman-types are NOT 'open borders advocates'." Have you no shame? The most open of "open-borders" advocates ALWAYS pay lip service to our right to secure borders. But they're also the ones who scream loudest when ANY action is taken by law enforcement to enforce our immigration laws, at the border or anywhere else.

suzy wrote on Jul 6, 2008 11:53 AM:Thank God (oops, is that allowed!) for Michael Spencer & the Minutemen. They care about their country & are doing the work most Americans are too lazy & apathetic to do. We all should wake up before it's too late. I want my country back!!!

Un-American wrote on Jul 6, 2008 12:28 PM:It is un-American to have a sub-culture workforce that we have all benefited from? Do we accept that sub-culture workforce only if it remains silent and non-political? Not in America. The debate about immigration will continue, but these immigrants have Constitutional rights and due process. Additionally, their children are U.S. citizens. They will become part of our society. They will become teachers, police officers, and firemen. Several generations into the future, many of them will have professional jobs too.

We have seen this process before. Look at the plight of the Irish in the late 1800's. Do a Google search for archived New York Times editorials. You will see that the Irish were not well thought of in terms of benefiting America. They were viewed as drunkards that liked to fight. They were also viewed as not sophiticated enough to contribute to an American society. A hundred years have passed and there are no concerns about being Irish in America today. Time changes prejudicial attitudes. There was a movie that even celebrated Irish gangs of the 1800's. The movie, Gangs of New York, is about Irish gangs and the related crime and violence.

Finally, we are all to blame for the current problem. We have accepted the immigrant workforce as part of our lives when they maintian our yards, build our homes, watch our kids, and cook our food; just to name a few. We use cheap labor when it benefits us. Immigrants have provided cheap labor for America and we continue to embrace it.

Now these immigrants want to share in the same American Dream that we have experieced. Let's help them.

Asteroid wrote on Jul 6, 2008 12:48 PM:Asteroid
[-] wrote on Jul 6, 2008 10:26 AM:
How bout it? Any North County Forum folks here? Care to enlighten us on how Mr. Eiden dispells "myths" surrounding "immigration" (illegal)?

To Un-American wrote on Jul 6, 2008 1:12 PM:Hate to break it to you but at the time of the Irish immigration, we did not have the immigration laws that we have now. They came across, LEGALLY.

Wow wrote on Jul 6, 2008 1:16 PM:This is all so true!! Thank you for your clear sited article!!

Mr. Spencer is correct wrote on Jul 6, 2008 1:43 PM:To un American: The Irish, nor any Euro centric nationality (Italian, German, French, etc.) DID NOT come to USA in anywhere near the numbers that Latino's...Mexican's are and have been. Also, there was a vast ocean separating them from their mother countries; for the millions of Mexican's and Central American's, there's only a bit of road to traverse. The Euro centrics were ECSTATIC to come to USA and quickly appreciated and assimilated; the Mexican and Latino illegals are for the most part an ungrateful, lawless demanding bunch. Ever see millions of Irish, Germans or Asians marching in our cities and forcefully demanding rights normally afforded only to law abiding, legal citizens. This is the difference. Spencer's premise and conclusion are solid and unshakeable.

Sponsor wrote on Jul 6, 2008 1:58 PM:Good commentary. The illegal immigration crowd just wants to invade. Requiring a sponsor solves so many problems. However, the 1986 amnesty taught the wrong lesson, and many of the beneficiaries are failed to learn good citizenship, and are unwilling to sponsor others. Just take, take take!!!

Ryan wrote on Jul 6, 2008 2:48 PM:The 'employers fight tough measures on immigration' article on the front page of todays Californian raises a question.

As reported, the employer groups and chambers of commerce in Oklahoma went to federal court to water down the 2007 state law that required employers to use a federal database to check immigration status of new hires.

While not listing their reason for doing that in today's article , I recall the CofC's national whine of 2007 was employers were not government agents.

Since when?

Who tracks and forwards income tax payments and reports income to the IRS?

I'd sure like to see them initiate some action to back out of that deal.

And who enforces and/or monitors the nanny state rules the government passes to ensure 'fairness' for all?

The illegal invasion is not about refilling a disappearing labor pool.

It's about draining the labor pool and using the cheapest fill possible.

My hat's off to the Vista Citizens Brigade.

Un-American wrote on Jul 6, 2008 3:46 PM:I still haven't seen a response to the two questions posted. Legal or not, ANY person in the United States has Constitutionally protected rights and due process.

Also, many immigrants are very grateful to be in this country. They have become more politically aware. For example, you will not see a majority of Mexican flags flying at immigrant rights marches. This was done in the past and it did not sit well with many people. The most recent immigrant marches in the Los Angeles area show cased American flags.

The immigrants' rights movement recognizes that their future political power will come from operating within the US political systems. That's the beauty of this country, any part of society can gain political power and influence. I believe that is what's happening now....and it makes some fearful of change.

Never met Mr. Spencer wrote on Jul 6, 2008 4:45 PM:But,
He gets my vote.
Hope he runs for office.
The complacent Americans have forgotten what he tells us here.
Thank you NCT for having the courage to print it.

ALBERTO wrote on Jul 6, 2008 5:01 PM:I AM SO THANKFULL FOR THE MINUTE MEN AND WOMEN,AND THE VISTA CITIZENS BRIGADE. HOW AND WHO CAN I CONTACT TO DONATE MONEY OR TIME.I WANT SO MUCH TO HELP STOP THIS PLAGUE.

William wrote on Jul 6, 2008 5:54 PM:A first principle of society is that no one may be permitted to gain a profit or advantage by wrongdoing. Aliens who entered without a visa violated a federal criminal statute - 8 U.S.C. 1325. Those with a visa who do not depart on that visa's expiration engage in wrongdoing by not obeying the terms agreed to when obtaining the visa, but did not, under present law, commit a crime. All so-called immigration reform proposals would allow both types of wrongdoers(some not allowing all of them)to remain enjoying a higher standard of living in the US in preference to their law abiding, fellow nationals who apply and wait their turn for a visa permitting permanent resident status, and thus all offend the first principle by permitting the wrongdoer to profit from the wrongdoing. Some proposals did not even require the aliens to demonstrate that they had paid taxes on income earned in the US.

Gotta love those Vistonians wrote on Jul 6, 2008 5:57 PM:But, when Vista is the best you can do, I guess you want to do all you can to keep it to yourself!

Responsibility wrote on Jul 6, 2008 6:44 PM:I agree that we need to have strong border enforcement and I think we should at least consider doing away with automatic citizenship by birth. But we also need to stop screaming at others and take partial responsibility for creating the problem. Every year, Congress approves massive subsidies for U.S. farmers, making it nearly impossible for Mexican farmers and food companies to profitably export produce. That's one reason why a lot of Mexicans emigrate. Most of the illegals who came from Mexico did so after NAFTA crippled the Mexican agricultural industry.

crazy wrote on Jul 6, 2008 6:56 PM:The reason immigrants of the past and present assimilate is to avoid discrimination from hateful U.S. citizens. Most of you so called "Americans" are actually un-American by always discriminating against others and their culture. Are you so simple and petty that it's too hard to tolerate anothers culture?
The other issue is that most of the people comming from south of the U.S. border are not "alien" at all. They ARE Native Americans that are simply following their natural course of life as it was before it was interupted by the white man. Disregard any theories such as the Viking, Beiring Strait and Out Of Africa, for that is all they are, theories. I believe if they are bringing diseases to the U.S. it may just be Karma for small pox and other diseases that the white man brought to the Native Americans. The Native Americans lost their entire natural course of existance and now you complain about your simple problems? MEH!Stop complaining,and try to correct what was done in the past or Karma will get you all.

E.F. .. wrote on Jul 6, 2008 7:45 PM:Obtaining a Visa DOES NOT mean you have had a health check, FBI background check or many of the other rigorous, exacting tests that make a LEGAL immigrant.

It amazes me how the anti-American, open borders crowd loves to demean honest, and above all LOYAL legal immigrants who give up everything, and sacrifice approximately ten years of work to adopt American ideals as their own, and be awarded citizenship.

Legal immigrants are some of the hardest working, America-cherishing people who hold this country's history and values in their hearts. The illegal immigrants' records speak for themselves--in prison, on welfare lines, and in violent gangs. Oh yeah, illegals are JUST GREAT.

face wrote on Jul 6, 2008 8:17 PM:Thank You Un-American! Well said.

Rat wrote on Jul 6, 2008 8:20 PM:This plague is in your brain Alberto and Michael.

To Un-American at wrote on Jul 6, 2008 8:22 PM:You said: "....We have accepted the immigrant workforce as part of our lives when they maintian our yards, build our homes, watch our kids, and cook our food; just to name a few..."

See, there's that arrogance again. Only "immigrants" maintain yards, watch our children, build homes, and cook food?

Newsflash for you: We had 4 kids; never even CONSIDERED having someone who couldn't speak English care for them; we did all the yard maintenance on both the homes we owned (large lots, both of them); our kids all helped with the yards and housework; the kids all worked in restaurants or retail as soon as they were old enough; hired a licensed contractor to do an addition to one of our homes (someone who never dreamed of hiring an illegal anything on his crews); and, for the final shocker, many members of my family have worked in the construction trades since the 40's (gasp! Imagine that, U.S. citizens working in construction???....Oh my.).

I have NO interest in "helping" illegals attain "the American Dream." Coming here--with no regard for our immigration laws--to work to send money back to the mother country is hardly an "American" dream. For Americans, it's a nightmare.

Taxpayer wrote on Jul 6, 2008 8:25 PM:Thank you to this newspaper for printing this. Thank you Mr. Spencer for stating some facts in an intelligent manner. Now brace yourself for the name calling and threats which are sure to follow.

Hello -un american wrote on Jul 6, 2008 8:42 PM:Where were you a couple of years ago when the mexicans did a walk out all over North County, including schools, and you could actually walk into wal-mart? The mexican community walked and drove around flying mexican flags and shouting "viva mexico." I didn't see not one marcher that so badly wants to live in the USA flying the RED,WHITE&BLUE. Again I have no problem with anyone looking for a better life comming to the USA. Do it legally! Don't make me pay for the babies they have, they need to pay their taxes like I do. The kids need to speak english in english speaking schools.

Nailed It wrote on Jul 6, 2008 8:59 PM:Good article, and tough to hear stuff. In addition to VCB, where's the ECB (encinitas citizens brigade) and so on. We all need to be a part of this solution. Illegal immigrants are draining this country's resources, putting our health at risk, and flaunting our laws. Our education system is one often overlooked facet of the equation. Burdened by spanish only speaking students, native english speaking children's education suffers. You'd think the teachers and school administrators would be up in arms, but no. Instead we have theatrical productions like "Wait a minute, Men" at palomar college mocking the minutemen paid for with our tax dollars.

ALBERTO wrote on Jul 6, 2008 10:04 PM:YOU KNOW IT SEEMS LIKE A PLAGUE TO ME.AND I FEEL THAT PEOPLE LIKE THE MINUTE MEN AND ALL AMERICANS WITH LOVE FOR THIS COUNTRY WILL PREVAIL.WE NEED PATRIOTS.

But you didnt nail your sentence wrote on Jul 6, 2008 10:22 PM:The word is "flouting." "Flaunting" means "bragging about" or "showing off." I guess you proved your point: The education of English-speaking children is suffering. I mostly agree with "Nailed It" and Mr. Spencer's opinions about this huge problem. But when I see some of the posts on this blog mislabeling Mr. Spencer's opinions as "facts," part of me worries that the solutions might be as bad as the problem.

b wrote on Jul 6, 2008 11:00 PM:Un-American Q1: "It is un-American to have a sub-culture workforce that we have all benefited from?" Yes, it is un-American. Sure, in the past the U.S.A. used black slave labor (a sub-culture workforce), but that was at the infancy of the country. Slavery was abolished long ago as our collective consciousness expanded; further exploitation of any type of sub-culture workforce, whether illegal Mexican immigrants on the mainland or "sweat shop" employees overseas, is un-American. Un-American Q2: "Do we accept that sub-culture workforce only if it remains silent and non-political?" No. Given my answer to the first question, it is un-American to accept a sub-culture workforce; the activities of that group have no bearing on whether the group should exist and can neither justify nor jeopardize its further existence.

b wrote on Jul 6, 2008 11:24 PM:100% Support from me. Just a small addition: Legal immigrants are implored to demonstrate basic knowledge of U.S. History and English reading/writing skills, whereas illegal immigrants tend to have little, if any of this knowledge. This is very dangerous to the solidarity of the nation and the general social order that has been created through hundreds of years of development and refinement.

CRIMINALS SHOULDNT COME HERE wrote on Jul 7, 2008 12:56 AM:I AGREE WITH THIS [person] IN SOMETHING TODAY, AND IT'S THAT MOST OF THE PEOPLE IS DENIED ENTRANCE TO THIS COUNTRY FOR FINANCIAL ISSUES AND FEW FOR CRIMINAL PAST; IT COULD BE NICE TO ASK MR. ABED OF WHY HIS BROTHER HAS BEEN DENIED ENTRANCE TO THIS COUNTRY FOR 14 YEARS? THEY HAVE PLENTY OF ECONOMICAL RESOURCES! I WONDER WHY A LEBANESE CITIZEN WITH A LOT OF MONEY AND WITH A CITY OFFICIAL AS BROTHER CAN BE DENIED ENTRANCE TO THIS COUNTRY FOR SO MANY YEARS, AND HOW MR. COUNCIL MAN GOT HERE WITH SO MUCH MONEY IN FIRST INSTANCE.

Bill wrote on Jul 7, 2008 3:31 AM:The facts in this story are the REAL "inconvenient truths".

The constitutional rights guaranteed to illegals do not include the right to be here ILLEGALLY.

They are not guaranted right to due process for this crime because due process means being deported after an ICE hearing.

The courts have no judicial remedy for illegal immigration.

That is the border patrol and ICEs job.

Jesse wrote on Jul 7, 2008 3:38 AM:Illegal aliens are lawbreakers, hence they should be arrested and deported back to their countries right away. I am a nurse at a North county hospital and I see these illegal aliens draining the resources that should have been spent on US citizens and legal residents. What part of ILLEGAL these illegal alien lovers don't understand? If they so desire to support these illegal aliens, they should come and pay for their hospitalization expenses from your own pockets.

Enough is enough, get rid of these criminals who are sucking up our resources dry.

By the way, I came to the US legally and honorably served for 20 years in the US military.

Roberto wrote on Jul 7, 2008 6:08 AM:1) Violent criminals = incarcerate and deport.
2)Drug runners = incarcerate and deport

3) Sneaking around working = Tell the racist minute men to go pick on someone like a violent criminals instead.

illegal trucker wrote on Jul 7, 2008 6:18 AM:hi folks, I am sure I have seen many of you on the freeway, I am an illegal trucker. I drive with no license or insurance on your freeways and only with a couple of accidents, well maybe more than a couple, anywho, I don't feel you really appreciate me and my kind,m we bring food and merchandise, (Stolen? Hey you didn't hear it here.) Anyway just try to imagine what it would be like to have a Day without Illegal Truckers then multiply that by 365, pretty grim, right? After all we are doing the work that legal American firms don't want to do.

Jim wrote on Jul 7, 2008 6:46 AM:The thing about illegal non-immunized kids is they will be treated for a song but you will have to get new health insurance after your legal kid is treated for the disease they caught and if you can’t get health insurance then you will have to mortgage your house the next time.

Democrat Robert wrote on Jul 7, 2008 7:20 AM:What the hell is wrong with my Party? I have been a moderate democrat for forty years and its shocking that my party continues to spew this open border/ amnesty garbage. Thank God for Rep Bilbray who, despite growing odds has and will remain our Nations pitbull to end this insanity!

Do convicted felons wrote on Jul 7, 2008 7:22 AM:have the same constitutional rights as you and me? Of course not, don't be silly, they would be voting in Dillinger for President. Now do foreign aliens that are here illeaglly, have OUR constitutional rights? What do you think?

jim wrote on Jul 7, 2008 7:34 AM:Yes I am sure there are plenty of big rig illegals out there...NOT. Come up with a different ploy, one that you had to think about for at least two minutes.

Chuckles wrote on Jul 7, 2008 7:36 AM:Roberto, you forgot Xenophobes today. What's up are you slipping or getting alzheimers?

To Roberto wrote on Jul 7, 2008 8:54 AM:It's the ones that are sneaking around working that are also the drug smugglers and the violent criminals, so why not get incarcerate / deport all of them?

If we had militaristic borders like israel this problem would not be as great!

IT wrote on Jul 7, 2008 9:58 AM:most of Latinos are here because of the great inflation that was caused by American companies in Latin America. Aside from that, many are seeking a life away from the puppet democracies that were funded by the United States; places like El Salvador, Guatemala, Peru, Columbia, Nicaragua, Ecuador and Republica Dominicana, and not just Spanish-speaking countries either, but Haiti and Jamaica as well.

A Legal Immigrant wrote on Jul 7, 2008 10:33 AM:Thank you for writing this article Mr. Spencer, and thank you for printing it NC Times. It is absolutely accurate IMHO.

A proud American from Canada transplant.

If they over stayed a legal wrote on Jul 7, 2008 10:36 AM:visa they are in the country ILLEGALLY. If we had militaristic borders like Mexico has this would not be a problem. No other country in the WORLD gives free medical care, free education and free food and low cost housing to every tom dick and harry who requests it, or as many do, demands it. ENOUGH the illegal immigrants are draining our country.

WHY is ANYTHING wrote on Jul 7, 2008 10:40 AM:from ballots to drivers license tests printed in ANY language but ENGLISH???

Jaque wrote on Jul 7, 2008 11:17 AM:Laurian, WELL SAID!

Fellow Americans, keep electing the incumbents and you'll keep getting the same damn thing. Get a Clue!

Frank wrote on Jul 7, 2008 12:19 PM:There you go again Flores using your favorite word UN-AMERICAN that you hide behind.

Artsyrat wrote on Jul 7, 2008 4:18 PM:Great article. Now let's send it to the San Diego Union Tribune, New York Times, Washington Post, Chicago Sun-Times and as many major newpapers as we can. Articles like this need to be seen by more than just North San Diegans. Let's send it and all these comments to the President and our Ca. Congressman.

Johny On The Spot wrote on Jul 7, 2008 4:35 PM:If for no other reason than the need for national security, we need to seal the borders and then deport every single illegal.

Do not reward the law-breakers by giving creating another amnesty free for all.

GREAT Article wrote on Jul 7, 2008 6:51 PM:Illegal Immigrants (and their supporters) will always believe the law doesn't apply to them. Mexico teaches its citizens the U.S. stole California (and the rest of the US Southwest)... so why bother following our laws?

To un-american wrote on Jul 7, 2008 7:53 PM:Yes, sounds like Flores wrote this one as that is his favorite disguised racist word.

Law and order... wrote on Jul 7, 2008 10:14 PM:Let me see, Mr. Spencer advocates law and order.
Mr. Flores, is unhappy with cops doing their job, enforcing the law.
Oh, and the cops are enforcing racist policies?
Mr. Spencer advocates law and order.
People are confused by this juxtaposition?

submit wrote on Jul 7, 2008 10:34 PM:Johnny on the spot has the right idea..... They hate our laws... So go back.

chickenlittle wrote on Jul 7, 2008 11:54 PM:Knew I shouldn't have read this forum...comparing the illegal mexicans to irish immigrants is taking it a bit far isn't it? ...
I have never/will never hire illegals. How safe is that? Yes, they are taking over jobs, people will hire cheaper labor, but at a price.

th Posting wrote on Jul 8, 2008 8:14 AM:Question for Mr Spencer
How much do you make from tax payer funded support? How many grants have you received for VCB? How much do you get in social services? Answer? ZERO!!! Look into the finances of these open border groups, people. El Grupo, CRLA, MEChA, La Raza, Gente Unida and on it goes. ALL these anti American groups are supported BY the US taxpayer!!! They wouldn't lift a finger if they weren't. Any group who advocates the lawlessness, ... citizenship and social services provided to NON citizens, needs to immediately be DEfunded. There is NOT a volunteer among them. God Bless the OBVIOUS patriots like Michael Spencer and the various VOLUNTEER Minute Men groups in this county and throughout America.

Law wrote on Jul 8, 2008 11:43 AM:Get this, the Mayor of San Diego is going to name July 8 La Raza Day!!!!!
What the, you know what the next word is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Rad man wrote on Jul 8, 2008 2:42 PM:If I were the president of Mexico I think I would be the most embarressed man on the planet. When a good majority of his own people wants to flee their own country for a greater opportunity elsewhere, something is very wrong. Mexico is a country that has great wealth in oil and other natural resourses; tourism; its a beautiful country. Why do they have so many problems? The answer is simple; they dont give a rip about educating their people. If they put this at a higher prioity. maybe this problem would go away.

Roberto wrote on Jul 9, 2008 2:50 AM:Ah yes...the demand for drugs is a good reason to seek out day laborers...no taxes? gee whiz, I though renters paid the landlords property taxes. Night School is an option for all those who are afraid an illegal worker will take your job.

Jim wrote on Jul 9, 2008 6:06 AM:I heard a news station last night refer to "hispanic/latino citizens". I thought we were "American citizens"?

Legal citizen tax payer wrote on Jul 10, 2008 1:33 PM:I don't know if many people are aware that an illegal female can receive from our state to start with $491 a month until that child reaches 18. She gives berth to 6 children and thats $2946 a month for 18 years. When we go into a deep recession her life style will not change. And we wonder why our state is going broke.

To Rad Man wrote on Jul 10, 2008 3:05 PM:Unfortunately our government is doing the same with our education system.
You see how "no child left behind" campaign is dumbing down our students. That is a well planed design to keep us Americans from the education we deserve. They do not want us to know how to think for ourselves, and that lets them do the destruction to this country that they are doing. The
government could easily put more money into the system and make sure no illegals are in the school system, but they don't.
The rich, elite are getting richer and the middle class falls into poverty and our unconstitutional taxes are being given to those that are not supposed to be in this country.
I could go on but I hope you are getting the message, we are being dumbed down for a reason and the illegals are making it that much easier to not educate at top notch quality.

To PM wrote on Jul 10, 2008 6:32 PM:Having been in education for 37 years I agree with you 100%,
It's sad

vistan wrote on Jul 11, 2008 6:14 PM:born and raised, where do i sign up for the brigade and minutemen

zeezil wrote on Jul 17, 2008 8:17 PM:Immigration Terminology 101

With the vitriolic immigration debate roiling in all parts of our country, it is important to understand terminology. Be prepared to dispel the half-truths and no truths of the way those who are illegally in our country are described by their advocates. Knowledge is power:

ILLEGAL:
1.) Unlawful; illegitimate; illicit; unlicensed.
2.) Illegal, unlawful, illegitimate, illicit, criminal can all describe actions not in accord with law.
3.) Illegal refers most specifically to violations of statutes.
4.) Prohibited by law

ALIEN:
1.) a person who is not a citizen of the country.
2.) in the United States any person born in another country to parents who are not American and who has not become a naturalized citizen. There are resident aliens officially permitted to live in the country and illegal aliens who have sneaked into the country or stayed beyond the time allowed on a visa.

INVADE:
1. to enter like an enemy: Locusts invaded the fields
2. to enter as if to take possession: To invade a neighbor's home
3. to enter and affect injuriously or destructively, as disease: Viruses that invade the bloodstream.
4. to intrude upon: To invade the privacy of a family.
5. to encroach or infringe upon: to invade the rights of citizens.
6. to permeate: The smell of baking invades the house.
7. to penetrate; spread into or over: The population boom has caused city dwellers to invade the suburbs

Those illegally in a country are not "immigrants". There is no such thing as an "illegal immigrant". An immigrant is involved with an established and orderly procedure of immigration (entering a country to which one is not native in order to settle there by legal process).

They are not immigrants, not undocumented immigrants (Kennedy and the PC fan favorite), not undocumented workers, not undocumented Americans (Harry Reid’s favorite), not economic immigrants (Big Business and Wall Street favorite), not immigrants without work papers, not people who are working (Enrique Morone’s favorite), not migrant workers, not entrants, not day laborers and not the “unbanked” (Bill Clinton and Arnold Schwarzenegger’s favorite).

The government has defined them as "illegal aliens" and explicitly uses that term in all its laws and statutes. So keep it simple…a spade is a spade…they are illegal aliens. Or, if you’d prefer, another term that would be just as correct to use is "invaders". I would consider the two interchangeable.

One other definition is exceedingly useful since you’ll hear with every piece of amnesty legislation, the open border lobbyists, facilitators and illegal alien advocates declaring that it isn’t amnesty in the hope that you will think so. Here’s the definition of amnesty so you can decide for yourself:

AMNESTY is legislation to forgive the breaking of immigration laws and to make it possible for illegal aliens to live permanently in the United States. Amnesty represents a system of federal rewards and assistance for illegal aliens, and they entice an even greater number of foreign nationals to illegally enter a country. Amnesty is providing the ultimate goal of the perpetrators illegal entry...legalization of their presence.

AMNESTY:
1. A general pardon for offenses against a government
2. An act of forgiveness for past offenses, esp. to a class of persons as a whole
3. Forgetting or overlooking any past offense

There you have it, folks. Knowledge is power…use it wisely.

Big Lake wrote on Jul 17, 2008 8:52 PM:Why wasn't this mentioned. When U.S. Citizens really know what the government does with our money, I think something will be done.

Seven-year limit for some noncitizens
http://www.socialsecurity.gov/pubs/11051.html
Some refugees and other noncitizens can get SSI for up to seven years. If your SSI payments are limited to seven years because of your particular noncitizen status, we will send you a letter telling you when your seven-year period ends. We will send you another letter explaining your rights to appeal before we stop your payments.
If you are a current or former SSI recipient subject to SSI eligibility under the seven-year time limit, we encourage you to contact the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) to find out how to:
Expedite processing of your pending naturalization (N-400) or adjustment of status (I-485) application; and
Waive fees for the cost associated with filing your application