Marine Wife wrote on Jul 27, 2007 2:09 PM:I thought this was always the case for Marines but often the Army guys wear theres. Hopefully it is a military wide change.

mark wrote on Jul 28, 2007 5:29 PM:the fact that such a ridiculous thought would enter your mind at all would seem to indicate that nothing of any real importance is going on in your life.

Gregory-USMC wrote on Jul 29, 2007 1:27 AM:In most cases across the U.S. the United States Army, Army Reserves, U.S. National Guard Units wear their combat utilities or Battle Dress Uniforms, (BDU's) in public as they are permitted to do so when going to and coming home from active duty assignments. I am not sure what the current regulations are for the U.S. Air Force, however, these regulations can be researched at Military dot com or by Googling the subject of research. The U.S. Army now has what is called ACU's or Army Combat Uniform that is a sort of grey-ish green digital pattern that they are allowed to wear off base and the U.S. Marine Corp has what is called MARPAT, for Marine Pattern that comes in a dark green Woodland color and a Coyote Tan Desert color. Marines are only allowed to wear their Dress Blues or Casual Dress "Alpha's", (The dark green suit jacket, slacks and tie outfits off base. No combat uniforms of any kind, UNLESS they are either deploying to a combat area or returning from combat, you will see them in their desert MARPAT uniforms, at which point you should ALL be at the airport welcoming these warriors home, as we should ALL be doing for ALL returning from combat for this country. As for the "person" that made the rude comment about ANY civilian having "nothing of real importance" going on in their life as a concern over this issue,(Mark), is the troubled one as he is not at all informed or aware of what is taking place in his surroundings which makes him dangerously ignorant. THAT is one of the most dangerous of persons to listen to or take ANY type of advice from, as he would be a likely candidate for domestic terrorism, being too tightly wrapped or warped, whichever occurs first. It seems that pity, apathy and stupidity always brings out the best in some people.

John wrote on Jul 29, 2007 9:01 AM:Its just a lot easier for a man or woman to ware ther work clothes to work ,Especially if they live off base .Think about this, How would you like to change 4 to 5 times a day?Lets not get stupid .

Peter wrote on Jul 29, 2007 9:57 AM:The rule concering Cammies off base is what separates us from all of the other services. I was stationed on Camp Pendlwton for 7 years, and remember getting out to get gas @ a station right off of base. When I had left work, I took of my cammie blouse and went home, I realized I needed some gas and stopped to get some, I was out of my car for al of 2 mins, before I was approached by a motivated SgtMaj who who was also driving home noticed I was out of uniform. After short butt chewing and a laugh, I realized that day how different we are from most organizations. For years Marines have done things alittle different then most, I have since left the Marine after 13 years of service and still notice things that Marines do off base and correct them when needed. For those of you who might not understand our logic, don't, it will not make sense. For those who have wore the uniform, they understand and will never forget why we do things the way we do, eben if it is something as simple is what we wear to work and where we can wear it. Semper Fi all!

mark wrote on Jul 30, 2007 9:18 AM:All this is very interesting but pretty pointless. If it makes you feel special to keep changing your uniform several times a day, go ahead knock yourself out. I am very aware of my surroundings at all times but have the ability to filter out the trivial and unimportant. I never feel or in fact ever am in the slightest danger I can assure you.

Pretty boys? wrote on Jul 30, 2007 9:32 AM:I don't understand the carer military. The zeal that they have for protocol and spit and polish is mistifying. Shouldn't the Marines be out chasing bad guys? Instead you spend your time shining your shoes and preening. Why should we pay you for strutting around the parade field?

mark wrote on Jul 30, 2007 10:48 AM:I guess I should clarify before I get accused of disrespect for all of the Marine Corps most cherished traditions. Read the article. The thrust of it is that the uniform policy is to protect the tender sensibilities of the local civilian population. If that is indeed the reason don't bother. In fact to me it smacks of the same condescension that causes flag draped coffins to be slyly returned in the dead of night. Either the country is at war or it isn't you can't have it both ways. I know this uncomfortable truth may cause some to maybe think twice before they speed down the freeway at 80mph solo in an Escalade. Or refinance the house for a Nordstroms shopping spree or expensive vacation. Bad for the economy don't you know. It is my opinion that our local Marines and Sailors service and sacrifices needs to be made more apparent in our community not less.

To Mark wrote on Jul 30, 2007 4:22 PM:Mark you say some pretty ignorant things, it has nothing to do with the public perception as some believe. It is about professionalism, they have uniforms that are allowed to be worn off base but cammies are a work uniform only. The USMC has always been strict about it but there was wiggle room in the order that many took advantage of so they tightened it up. For most Marines this is business as usual not front page news.

mark wrote on Jul 30, 2007 5:13 PM:I guess I will try one last time. Slowly now, my comments were directed to the article: "Marine Corps camouflage rule has this civilian's blessing". Do you feel that you need his blessing? I have lived my whole life in this area surrounded by Marine Bases. During the VietNam War my own lying eyes will attest to the fact that Marines, in uniform, where seen everywhere. I never felt that they were in anyway being unprofessional, but that's just my opinion you are entitled to yours. If the Marine Corps feels that baning this or that uniform off base is important, more power to them. My point was if it is because of some perceived anxiety or confusion cammies might produce to civilians as the article seems to suggest, don't bother.

Dave wrote on Jul 31, 2007 11:04 AM:Guess the US civilian population is fast becoming more secular (non-religious) and more anti-conformist (see no value in becoming part of anything that requires hard work or self discipline). Another indicator in the decline of the US work ethic as we slide toward a socialist mindset.

mark wrote on Jul 31, 2007 12:26 PM:Well OK then if banning cammies off base prevents even one young Marine from becoming a Godless non-conforming socialist then I'm all for it. I'm sure yours is as good a reason as any. My only point has always been that if by some chance the rule is in place because for whatever reason your commanders feel that the local civilian population would not be able to withstand the site of a Marine in that particular uniform. If that is the reason the rule is not necessary. We are not Marines of course but we are still a hardy breed and I have no doubt that all of us would survive the experience.

MarineWife wrote on Aug 1, 2007 1:32 PM:The rules about when and where Marines wear anything have absolutely nothing to do with the impact it may or may not have on any civilian, and everything to do with good order and discipline. If you don't understand it, then it doesn't matter to you, and it wasn't meant to.

Army Vet wrote on Aug 1, 2007 2:20 PM:I got out of the Army in 1987. I was last stationed in Ft. Benning Georgia. We were not allowed to wear our combat fatigues while running errands off post. We wore them to and from work and took civilian attire with us if we needed to go somewhere. The combat uniform is a work uniform and considered very casual. It is like a mechanics jumpsuit. Most military members do dirty jobs and their uniforms reflect this by the end of the day. The military is just asking that the troops present themselves at their best at all times. It is not a sign of disrespect to anyone, but a sign of respect to the public. It is only a small inconvenience and even if the troops grumble a little, they understand. This has nothing to do with the war or offending anyone. It is a military custom.

mark wrote on Aug 2, 2007 10:17 AM:Thank you MarineWife and Army Vet your explanations make total sense. I'm not sure why that was so hard. It does not change my mind about the fact that the reasoning behind the above article, "Marine Corps camouflage rule has this civilian's blessing", was beyond goofy.

Rediculous wrote on Sep 4, 2007 8:42 PM:This is a rediculous commentary. A cop in uniform is a person whos job it is to assist when in need. Although, all americans, I believe, have a moral obligation to help when someone is in need. Just because you where camis does not mean you have to help or not help. A Marine, Fire Fighter, Cop, Doctor, Teacher, Custodian, Flight Attendant, ect all have the same moral obligation to get involved when someone needs help. Unfortunetly, we live in a selfish world where people don't want to get involved because they don't want to get home late and miss their favorite sitcom. Take it from a cop and a reservist.

I second that.. wrote on Sep 7, 2007 8:29 PM:Ridiculous as it is. I have seen both Army and Marine personnel wearing their dress uniforms and fatigues because I live halfway between Pendleton and Barstow. I said something to both of them and they both knew no matter how they reacted that they were wrong. Only should be worn on duty, going to or from, or special occasions (not halloween). I never even cared to wear my uniform except for very special occasions although I was in Iraq from March 2003 to July 2004 and have seen combat and earned my CIB. I figure I have enough pride but it doesn't concern civilians. And my struggle is the same internal conflict that has gone through the ages of combat veterans battling with PTSD. Because when you've done certain things you don't make it public as if others will understand when they start questioning you. I don't think combat veterans get enough credit over the rest anyhow like I believe we should since we acknowledge a difference between special forces and infantry MOSs in the Army because of the pains we face.

Edizzle wrote on Sep 10, 2007 6:28 PM:As a proud former resident of Vista and a current Air Force NCO, I am glad to say that Air Force members are alowed to wear their BDU´s (Battle Dress Uniform) off base at any establishment where civilians where work type clothing (ref. AFI 36-2903) With my 35 minute commute every day I would be pretty angry if I had to take extra time to change if I wanted to get a coke or stop for gas. It is well known that Marines are the most "hardcore" of the services.

Married to a Marine wrote on Sep 15, 2007 10:16 PM:The rule is, what my husband told me who is in Iraq right now, because the Marine Corps didn't want the Marines to receive special treatment out in town. They wanted them to be Marines because they WANT to, not to receive perks. So no one will say, "He is wearing his cammies to get special treatment." There was also a time where being in the military wasn't something that was pride driven. It was a rule that continued so they would not be heckled. Don't knock our rules.

Aceadjuster wrote on Sep 20, 2007 8:32 AM:It's a Marine thing. If you have not experienced it, you will never understand it. If you have, you will never forget it!

Al wrote on Oct 4, 2007 6:37 PM:I served in the USMC as a scout/sniper for 4 years, got my honorable discharge and switched to the Army Airborne. I frankly don't understand why some people are offended or bothered by soldiers in their camouflage uniforms off post. Perhaps this is a sign that they truly have nothing to actually worry about and so they are finding something ridiculous to focus on. I always found it a hassle in the Corps to change out of our work uniform and into civilian clothes (appropriate civilian attire, shirt with buttons and collar and slacks) so I could go home, take a shower and then change into clean clothes. In the morning I would have to dress in "appropriate" civilian attire, drive to the base and then change into my sateen or camouflage uniform for duty. This policy was no doubt thought of by some REMF who never busted a sweat during the day and got off duty at 1630 SHARP. This isn't Hardcore either, it's stupid. Hardcore is PT in flakjackets and helmets, not changing clothes four times a day. This is a waste of time and I'm glad the Army doesn't have this policy. If you don't like seeing soldiers in their ACU or camouflage uniform, look the other way or find a different hobby besides nitpicking soldiers.

Goatskull wrote on Oct 5, 2007 1:23 PM:"Many of us in the civilian environment never thought is was." And who is Andrew Kleske(the author of this article) to think his or any other civilian's opinion matters on this. Rules are rules and people in the military have to follow them, but for this to be based on what civilians think is beyond stupid. I have no opinion one way or the other on this matter but I DO think the author is a complet moron for even having an opinion on what's appropriate and what's not appropriate for military personell to wear off base. He's also a complete moron for not knowing the difference between the garb of a "professional" and surpuss hand me downs.

Goatskull wrote on Oct 5, 2007 1:26 PM:Oh and it's good to know that the rule of not waring cammies out in town have "this civilian's blessing". What a dork.

TULSI wrote on Oct 7, 2007 7:28 PM:I also agree with the opinions however I am also a military personnel.

TO Peter the Marine- wrote on Oct 12, 2007 11:52 AM:Marine, Get real-as a 20 plus, 1950-1974, reired Strategic Air Command USAF SAC trained killer, you certainly hit the nail on the head when you said the Marines were so different. In my 20years in SAC it has ALWAYS been prohibited to wear fatigues( utilities to you ) off duty and in public-so this is new to your Marines? Another point-while I am at it-litter and trash on Marine bases. Don't they teach how to field strip a butt in M/C boot camp and not throw trash on the ground? Very strict in SAC about any litter because of FOD, foreign object damage-trash sucked into a jet intake. And, yet another, off duty we were a representative of our service and that meant appropriate dress attire-a dress code. No females in flip flops and short shorts in the commissary, or men down town showing there underwar! Third,security is very lax compared to SAC,and that includes the speeders on base who ignore posted speeds, and finally the AF alwys looks good-like the French Poodle, but very vicious in a fight. Also education,and quality of people,a big difference.

Darryl wrote on Oct 13, 2007 4:38 PM:Thanks for serving Al, and thank you again for transferring from the Marine Corps

John wrote on Oct 20, 2007 1:47 PM:I was in the Army 68-70. I see no harm in wearing work fatigues (camo or not) at anytime. What difference does it make? I cannot believe that anybody would be offended by men and women wearing their uniform. What is going on in America? I am totally shocked that this idiotic order was ever issued. What is wrong with a service member going shopping in their work clothes on the way home, getting gas, or going to a movie, or anything? This stupid order will not last.

Daina wrote on Oct 20, 2007 3:43 PM:I live in an Air Force town and have worked for the AF as a civilian employee for 33 years. AF members are allowed down town in BDUs. I personally am proud to see our men and women in uniform in restaurants and business establishments. It reminds us as civilians that these are the defenders of our freedom, that we are an Air Force town and proud of it. In my opinion, the Combat Utility or Battle Dress Uniform is a mark of honor and most Americans want to see it worn, no matter the branch of service.

AMANDA wrote on Oct 23, 2007 1:02 AM:MY FIANCE (WHOS IN AFGANISTAN RIGHT NOW) IS A SOLDIER IM PREGNANT AND WHEN HE GETS OFF OF WORK HE GOES 2 THE STORE AND EVERYWHERE ELSE I NEED HIM TO IN HIS UNIFORM AND HE WEARS IT WITH PRIDE... HE WEARS IT IN IRAQ AND HE WEARS IT IN RALPHS BUT HE WEARS IT WELL!!!! NOT ONLY IS HE RESPECTED BUT HE IS ALSO HONORED BY CIVILIANS EVERYWHERE THEY SEE NOTHING WRONG WITH IT I SEE NOTHING WRONG WITH IT BUT MOST OF ALL MY FIANCE SEES ABSOLUTLY NOTHING WRONG WITH IT....LET IT BE!!!!

Good news wrote on Oct 23, 2007 1:12 PM:enough CASUAL fridays they should dress like professionals.

Justine wrote on Oct 23, 2007 3:47 PM:I TOTALLY AGREE WITH MARK. WHY WOULD ANYONE EVEN THINK ABOUT THIS. ITS RIDICULOUS. MARK... DO YOU WANT TO GET TOGETHER SOMETIME? PLEASE POST THE ANSWER.

Justin wrote on Oct 29, 2007 11:38 PM:this was a useless article, smack me because i just read all of it. Idont care if they wear them off base or not, its not offending me, and im an ex marine so dont blow that tradition stuff my way i know it already.

Now... wrote on Nov 10, 2007 12:32 PM:to ban those obnoxiously baggy pants the kids wear these days.

Marine Wife wrote on Nov 11, 2007 6:41 PM:My husband has been a Marine for 22 yrs. I asked him once to stop by the store on his way home and get me something. He said he couldn't because he didn't have a change of clothes and he can't go in the store in his uniforma. Later I asked him why, and he said I should think of it as a safety measure. If there were military personnel running around off base in their uniforms, and some bad guy saw them, he could easily pick out the higher ranking officers and perhaps follow them home?? Kidnap them and try to get them to spill top secret information? While on base, our Marines are protected, but off base, they could become potential targets. Making them chance into civilian clothes is another form of camouflauge, if you will. They blend in with their environment.

Russ wrote on Nov 27, 2007 1:28 PM:Dont put the other branches of service up againt the USMC. They have there own rules and traditons. I was a Marine for over nine years and never wore my work uniform off base and know of no others that did. It was either civies or a full dress uniform of which I was and are am proud of.

Jaque wrote on Dec 11, 2007 8:50 AM:Andrew has got more issues inside himself than that of worrying about our Armed Forces wearing their uniforms. This could be the dumbest notion I've read in a week. Only in America can people whine about so little, so much of the time.

Open Minded wrote on Dec 12, 2007 11:09 PM:I am a retired Marine of 21 years and I consider it ridiculous that marines cannot fuel their cars or stop at a drycleaners while wearing the utility uniform. Some traditions should change with the times. I imagine a lot of resources and man-hours were invested in developing and implementing this policy change. Where are the Marine Corps' priorities?

Joe wrote on Dec 14, 2007 2:57 AM:I am a Police Officer in Northern California. I have never been in the military. I personally enjoy the heck out of seeing our young men and women in uniform.All of you should wear it proudly without question.We have the greatest military in the world, and you make us all very proud!!!! Carry on.

Grognard wrote on Dec 20, 2007 11:05 AM:The historical roots of this policy aren't too hard to see. There were three kinds of uniforms: utility/fatigues, combat, service/dress (in various sets). Nobody would have expected to wear the first two out on the town simply because they were unattractive and often very worn in appearence. Eventually the combat and utility/fatigue uniform merged and then the service/dress uniform was slowly pushed aside. The uniform normally worn only during training exercises or on work details became the normal uniform of the day. After that people started to question the inconvenience of wearing civvies to commute to base and changing there. Eventually limited off-base wear was authorized and then limit creep set in. Stopping for gas became stopping for snacks, became stopping to shop, etc. Going back to the orginal intent: Combat uniforms should be reserved for the field or hard labor (btw, specialized wear often replaces that requirement) and a Marine on the town should be wearing service/dress in order to reflect the high standards of the Corps. You want to see a Marine in camouflage? Watch the news, rent a movie, or take the oath.

JSten wrote on Dec 24, 2007 10:11 AM: I just assumed that seeing someone in "Camos" was more that likely a poser, unless something about the conduct or situation dictated otherwise. I am not a Marine but I have developed a deep appreciation of what it takes to be one. To the posers of the world-even the untrained eye can see the difference.

Neal wrote on Jan 2, 2008 9:57 AM:While travelling back to Washington DC on New Years day, I saw a Marine in the airport wearing a camouflauge uniform. I could tell he was a Marine by the emblem, etc. on the left breast pocket of the uniform jacket. Was he coming home from Iraq?

Retired Marine wrote on Jan 2, 2008 10:03 AM:While traveling back to Washington DC on New Years Day, I saw a Marine in Cammies at the airport. It appeared that he was returning from Iraq?

Top wrote on Jan 12, 2008 1:35 PM:For those of us who have a longer perspective, mine is 66-96 when I retired from the Corps, we know the "Utility" uniform has never been "Acceptable" and seldom authorized off base. It has generally been authorized only for wear to and from work with restrictions preventing one from exiting the Marines POV. On occasion, during times of high tempo operations and huge demand on the Marines, it has been authorized for wear to and from work with temporary quick stops like fueling a POV (privately owned vehicle) or at the convenience store for a gallon of milk, etc. It has never been authorized for Liberty or leave.

Marines often work 12 to 18 hours a day and when commuting from an authorized off base residence to and from work the convenience of not having to carry a uniform with you and change at work is a good thing. Not all work spaces have facilities to accommodate that and changing in ones POV is a pain.

Bottom line: Wearing the utility uniform off base other than in ones vehicle has and seldom should be authorized and only for those who really need it.

If the the other services want to practice lower standards that's their business. The Marines should not. In these days of armed conflict and all that goes with it, we have to suffer with enough events, some just distasteful and others tragic that test our strength and tarnish our image. Unfortunately, these things tend to become both more numerous and more reported during controversial periods. While our leaders do and should take reasonable measures to reduce the stress and difficulty of Marine life, the last thing we should be doing is lowering our standards.

A Marine is a Marine is a Marine. If we don't want to be Marines then be something else. Just don't do it in a Marine uniform. Leave the sloppy attire and poor attitudes for others. Professionalism, pride and performance are all part of accomplishing the mission. And that is the holy grail.

Always ask, "What would Chesty do?"

Semper Fi,

Rules are rules wrote on Jan 20, 2008 9:49 AM:I retired from the USCG in 96 - even then, we were allowed to wear "working blues" to and from work only, no stops for shopping. The only exception to the rule was if we were on a work detail off base. I usually wore civvies to work - changed into my dress blues - many times having to change into a flight suit, then back to dress, then back to civvies to go home. No big deal - that was the rule and it was enforced. We were also not allowed to wear flight suits in public places or our flight jackets with civilian clothes. Semper Paratus

Carter: wrote on Jan 28, 2008 7:55 AM: A cop is not a part of the US military. In some foreign countries the military are the polices and they are very effective in enforcing the law, including suppressing the rights of the populous. That is an all different type of government from ours. Now that we have that settled, the utility uniform is a working uniform. During my twenty years in the Navy there was a period when personnel were allowed to wear the working uniform to and from work if they lived off base. But even during those times Naval personnel were not allowed to enter places of business in the working uniform. In the Navy at least, the uniform-of-the-day was prescribed by higher authority. For the most part, of my twenty years in the Navy including the last years, the dress uniform, or clean, well cared for, civilian cloths was required when off base. Why? The US military are not civilians, period! They are constantly under the scrutiny of the civilian public. As unfair as it may seem the civilian opinion is very important to our military. Without their approval the military would be in constant political turmoil that consumes effort and time, and find it very hard to convince congress of the military's requirements. The dress uniform is very impressive, and must be worn with pride and respect. The dress uniform worn properly, is a great aid in recruiting which is essential to our all volunteer services. A properly dressed marine is the best advertisement they can have. True, the services are quite different in their types of work. The Navy work, for the most part, is labor intense. Their working uniforms tend to become more soiled and look very bad. the Marine type work is, for the most part with their being the ground forces of the Navy, some what different. At any rate a dirty, ill kept, camouflaged, working uniform is just as disrespectful to the service as any other dirty ill kept uniform. Displaying pride in the service to which they belong is the duty of every military person, and to be disrespectful through the improper display of the uniform is a punishable offence, and I can not understand the thinking of a commanding officer who allows such. Showing pride in the uniform requires taking that extra effort that demonstrates a good marine. In their periodic evaluations, each military individual is graded on their military appearance, without exception. Wearing a soiled, disrespectful, working uniform off base is not conducive to a good career.

West Coast Marine wrote on Feb 5, 2008 5:27 AM:Marines have never been allowed to wear cammis in public, with the exception of banks, auto repair shops, dry cleaners and to pick their kids up from school. That is the only thing that recently changed, they are now not allowed to wear them anywhere. If you see someone in cammis at the mall, its either another branch of the service or a Marine who wants to get kicked out. I do not believe that the other branches should allow it. It just looks sloppy, but then again that's just another reason to join the Marine Corps instead of another branch.

DanAir wrote on Feb 5, 2008 9:41 PM:The world is safe now that Mr. Kleske is Chief of the Fashion Police.
If only he were as annoyed at looking at teenagers butt cracks.
Mr. Kleske, at least you're good for a laugh.

Mr. Military wrote on Feb 21, 2008 9:09 PM:Saw one of your finest USMC shopping in one of the big discount stores yesterday in full cammies (fatigues). I told him I did not care if he wore cammies and he said he was not worried and did not care about getting in trouble either. BTW my grandson who is 15 and junior ROTC was chewed out by a marine because my grandson was wearing cammies and walking home from Oceanside high after ROTC! He told me about it and was a bit frightened from the "chewing out."

TITLE 10 > Subtitle A > PART II > CHAPTER 45 > § 771Prev | Next § 771. Unauthorized wearing prohibited
Except as otherwise provided by law, no person except a member of the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps, as the case may be, may wear—
(1) the uniform, or a distinctive part of the uniform, of the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps; or
(2) a uniform any part of which is similar to a distinctive part of the uniform of the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps.

So basically it is up to the local Base Commander to allow or to discourage wearing of fatigues (work uniforms ) off base. AS with my own experience in the USAF. We were not allowed!

So if

usmc friend wrote on Jun 22, 2008 10:45 AM:A few folks on this list need to check out the spellcheck button. A few of the posts look like they were written by morons.