Murrieta Resident wrote on Jul 18, 2008 8:12 PM:It is unfortunate that people do not understand what a "gang" is. We think of th Crips or Hell's Angels and the like. There are many, many gangs all with different names. It is the activities that these individuals get involved in that creates the "gang" definition. These young men became thugs and chose to go the route they did. Now they have to pay the consequences. Everyone pays. Parents I have one thing to say to you. Be aware of what your children are doing. Check out their bedrooms and don't let them tell you that it is private. Until they pay the mortgage or rent it is not private. Know what they are doing, ask questions, who are their friends. etc.

Jeremy wrote on Jul 18, 2008 8:57 PM:There may be many types of gangs, but the real question we should be asking as members of the public is whether these gang laws with heavy penalties were intended for situations like this. I think the answer is no, they were intended for highly dangerous L.A.-type gangs we are used to hearing about. 25 years for those four counts is excessive.

To Jeremy wrote on Jul 18, 2008 9:49 PM:Yes they are intended for situations like this. I am sick and tired of the thugs and gangs thinking they run the show.
Any punk taking it upon themselves to commit crimes against others deserves every day of the 25 year sentence.
Another two-bit gang off our streets.

murrieta mom wrote on Jul 19, 2008 8:14 AM:I agree with both Murrieta Resident AND Jeremy regarding Murrieta's so called FIGHT CLUB/GANG. Parents need to know what your children are doing at all times--protect them. The courts, in my estimation did an overkill on the years these young people are going to be incarcerated. Yes, they should have done time but not to the EXTREME that has been implemented.

teensyoung adults listen up wrote on Jul 19, 2008 8:25 AM:the message should be loud and clear to anyone thinking of committing crimes in Murrieta or anywhere in Riverside County.
Crimes will get you long LONG sentences.
we won't stand for it and you will go to prison.
Consider this fair warning. Stay out of trouble or face maximum punishment under theh laww.
Don't do the crime if you can't do the crime.
To the DA and MPD. Good work. Keep it up. there is a group of young people hanging out near Los Alamos and Avenida Acacias by the empty furniture stores. Neighborhood watch is out and taking photos and video. If you have a kid that is roaming the streets unsupervised be prepared to face legal repurcussions.

Murrieta Dad wrote on Jul 19, 2008 9:06 AM:Calling yourself a "Club" and then using a gun to rob businesses and commit home invasion robberies, not to mention severely beating people, is certainly a street gang. We will now have 25 years where we won't have to worry about this thug. Good work MPD.

about time wrote on Jul 19, 2008 9:40 AM:To some people here: you can't sit here and complain about how gangs in this valley are out of control and should be punished, then the next day complain that the sentence they received it too harsh. Bottom line is that the court made examples of them and it should be a LOUD message to any other punks that think beating up citizens is OK. They are cancers to society and the only way to get rid of them is to put them away. If this sentence helps discourage 1 other possible gang member from committing a crime, well then it's worked. Stop the bleeding hearts around here and start holding people accountable for there actions. Don't do the crime unless your are prepared to do time. Lastly, to Murrieta Mom...would you think that this punishement was EXTREME as you call it, if it was your family member/child that got jumped and beaten to a pulp? I think not. I'm not challenging anyone here or trying to be rude, i'm saying it how it is and how it's nice to see the system work in the publics favor once in a while.

anotherview wrote on Jul 19, 2008 9:55 AM:Criminal street gangs debase neighborhoods and threaten public safety. Removing a member of a criminal street gang to prison for his crimes may therefore improve the quality of community life. News reports say the State of California has over 400,000 known criminal street gang members. Thankfully, the justice system has put Mr. Smith behind bars until at least the year 2028. Now let us target all the other criminal street gang members for the same outcome.

sophie wrote on Jul 19, 2008 10:19 AM:FOR ONE I AM VERY PLEASED AT HOW THE JUSTICE SYSTEM WORKED (FINALLY),THESE YOUNG MEN(CRIMINALS)GOT WHAT WAS COMING TO THEM,THEY WENT AND AND ACTED LIKE ANIMALS NOT ARE LOCKED UP LIKE THE DANGEROUS ANIMALS THEY ARE, WHAT THE TRAVESTY HERE IS THE LASTING EFFECTS THEIR VICTIMS WILL HAVE TO LIVE WITH,THE REST OF THEIR LIVES. THANK YOU MPD..

to Sophie and others nay sayers wrote on Jul 19, 2008 10:35 AM:locking these young men up isn't going to deffer the crime in our city. You people need to wake up and if someone was in a fight or injured in one of the assaults what did they do to deserve it and what were they doing at a party if they new something like this happened with these young men... What wasn't said and hasn't been said is that some of these young men like Smith where insulted by someone calling them a racial slur and when alcohol is a contibuting factor fights break out. They happen every where and all you people know it when someone is disrespected you feel bad and want to get revenge it happens in the work system all the time. These young men in my oppinion do not deserve the amount of time they recieved.

Resident wrote on Jul 19, 2008 12:09 PM:I think they were labeled a gang by overzealous DA Pacheco who wants to keep his numbers and therefore his budget up to fight gang activity. It is obvious the punishment does not fit the crime. Justice was not served here.

Senior wrote on Jul 19, 2008 12:11 PM:While the things Anthony was accused of occurred in recent times, some of the other persons were sought out for older things. It looks like the police and DA want to go after persons who did some bad things while they attended MVHS several years ago. Other students and parents may have complained then, but the school authorities and/or police would not do anything about it then. Now they come along and spend a lot of time and money to track them down now, even while what some of them did then was relatively minor. One or more had gone on to college in another state and was behaving properly. Another one was in college nearby preparing for a good career. But now after being arrested and labeling as part of a criminal street gang with one or two strikes against them it has almost ruined their chances for the planned careers doing something society values. One way to look at it is the law itself has become the big unstoppable unreasoning bully! I will try to explain what I mean in another comment. THE STATE LEGISLATURE IN MAKING A POWERFUL GANG ENHANCEMENT LAW STATES THAT IT MUST BE APPLIED ONLY WITH GREAT CAUTION. That is written right into the preface to the law. Remember some of these persons arrested for past misdeeds perhaps should have been punished for the violations they actually did, but not for being a member of a criminal street gang. Actually some were sentenced for the gang enhancement concurrently so they did not do extra time. HOWEVER the threat of the extra time added on to the threat of consecutive sentences for the several crimes meant that the accused were forced to plead guilty to the gang enhancement without the reasonable chance for a fair trial on the issue itself. It is noted that Anthony was sentenced to certain crimes and the rest were dropped. That seems to be a normal procedure for many of the unrelated cases. However I have been told by several attorneys that it is also a practice to charge the accused with extra items that he is probably not guilty of beyond a reasonable doubt in order to force a plea bargain, and that practice is done in Los Angeles, San Bernardino and San Diego Counties also.

Murrieta Resident wrote on Jul 19, 2008 12:23 PM:They all got what they deserved. Innocent people don't plead guilty. If only their parents had cared as much and were as involved in their kids lives then as they are now maybe this would not have happened. Pay attention to what your kids are doing. Great Job Murrieta PD for making the community safe for me and my family

Senior wrote on Jul 19, 2008 12:46 PM:I have some knowledge about what some of these men did or are alleged to have done from sources other than the newspaper and sitting in the courtroom. and I know one of them. I also attended the hearings for two others but not Anthony’s. I have seen several criminal trials before but these were not trials, these were preliminary hearings held nearly a year after they are supposed to be held.
I talked to a private investigator that also was a policeman for many years. He has spent many hours looking into one of these cases. There were several persons among the 11 arrested who did serious bad things and several who did not. Speaking of one of the other 10 the investigator SAID HE HAS NEVER IN HIS CAREER SEEN SUCH AN OUTRAGOUS RAILROADING OF ANYONE WITH SUCH OVERBLOWN CHARGES. Due to the allegation they are a gang member with excessive bail of $250,000 set due to the gang enhancement charges they can in no way have a fair trial on the merits of the charges. They are in effect forced to plead guilty. I understand one man sat in this same jail for 5 months without a public defender even visiting him or showing him the charges. He would have liked to plead guilty to one charge that he admitted to but he is adamant he was not involved in the other event, which was a lesser charge, and that he was not a gang member. The sentence could be substantially increased by the gang enhancement. Then the DA throws in more even overblown charges to scare him, and says that if he does not accept the plea offer PRIOR TO THE PRELIMINARY HEARING and admit he is guilty of BOTH charges and is also guilty of being a GANG member he will face twenty years in prison, but if he takes the plea now he can get off with nine years. Fortunately the judge reduced that by several years after getting the probation report. Normally a person can make a plea bargain right up to the time of his trial and often does so just before the trial. But this DA has said accept the plea now before the preliminary hearing or else go to trial. No second chance for a plea bargain later. This means being kept in this badly overcrowded jail for another two or three years waiting for a trial and not knowing whether your future public defender will be experienced or just assume you are guilty of everything and be bored by it all. So then you may face the sentence of 20 years at your trial. Again even knowing you are innocent you may have only a 50% chance of being found not guilty. It depends a lot on the luck of the draw during jury selection. So the result is the Gang Task Force gets another point for their report, and the DA gets another point to brag about his accomplishments when he runs for reelection or runs for state DA. I am thinking maybe there should be some kind of Federal Investigation of these violations of the routine denial of a FAIR SPEEDY trial, and denial of Reasonable bail.

Your right Senior wrote on Jul 19, 2008 12:49 PM:Senior has hit the head on the nail completely. If you were to go back and look at the charges of the first eleven defendents they are all over charged and then to look at what they were actually charged with is ridiculas. You don't see this in other counties people are getting away with manslaughter serving 12yrs and under and being an admitted gang member. All these young men and the other 4 where denied there constitutional rights to even have a chance to fight or be given the maximum sentence. Riverside is tough on crime and sure they are letting people know committ a crime here and go to prison. This isn't fair or right to all individuals. Rod Pacheco has gone over board with this case.......

to murrieta resident wrote on Jul 19, 2008 12:53 PM:How dare you say all these parents wern't involved in their kids lives' did you know them? If not you have no idea what your talking about I know for a fact several of them were completely involved with their children. These young adults made choices on there own as adults who had moved out of there parents homes. Please don't make coments you can't back up unless you know first hand.

Think about it... wrote on Jul 19, 2008 1:38 PM:No one made him take the plea deal. If he was innocent and the DA overcharged the case, he should have gone to jury trial. He knows how many vicious crimes he committed and did not want to take a chance in front of a jury.

Senior wrote on Jul 19, 2008 2:08 PM:It is understood that letters to the editor and comments to web site are personal opinions. This is my opinion based on what I have been able to find out. It is understood from the article today and previous articles that Anthony Smith did some wrong things for which significant prison time may be appropriate. It is questionable whether the sentence is in line or out of line with terms given to unrelated other persons who have committed similar crimes without a gang enhancement added. Several others of the 11 young men allegedly went with Anthony on several occasions. But it was in no wise all 11 of the accused. Furthermore these young men who knew each other in high school did get nick named the Murrieta fight club. But they subsequently did not form a criminal street gang as far as most of us understand what a street gang is as far as I can tell. I have observed the behavior of one of the accused and his visitors for the past several years and put that together with what the parents of the others have said as reported in this newspaper and from two of the mothers. It seems like two or three of these guys allegedly did go out together to do some bad things excluding the others. Meanwhile a couple of the others did some bad things independently and not for the benefit of a criminal street gang. And several others settled down and went off to college and were behaving properly. I sincerely honestly doubt there ever was a "criminal street gang" involving all the 11 men arrested in February 2007 and charged as if they were all members of a "criminal street gang" making a much higher bail requirement. Several of the 11 did not even know what those others were doing. There was NO gang. There was NO gang membership. There were NO gang initiations. There were NO gang meetings. There were NO gang colors, NO gang symbols, NO gang tattoos and NO gang racial restrictions, and NO gang membership. A couple of others got together on their own and did some bad things without any discussion or approval of any gang leader, because there was no criminal street gang.
Some of these 11 persons mentioned in previous newspaper articles were NOT even accused of any of these things like robbery, burglary, carrying a gun, stealing a car, stealing a motorcycle, arson, or kidnapping. Yet they are all grouped together as equally of all doing gang things together. If you read the previous articles in this paper and web site carefully you can see that it is true that some of them were not accused of doing any of those things I listed. There was "no gang territory". Some people say Tim Hales of the regional gang task force gets a lot of points from his bosses for how many "gang members" he can put in jail, (whether they are really criminal street gang members or not.) Everybody knows the Riverside DA is almost obsessively strict, and wants to be able to brag about having a high conviction rate and being tough on gangs. He has been written up in numerous previous Riverside Newspaper articles as wanting to have a reputation for being tough on gangs. He is the DA quoted in a recent Riverside Newspaper article that while in the state legislature he once said it takes a GOOD prosecutor to get a conviction, but it takes a GREAT prosecutor to convict an innocent man.

Wake up Citzens wrote on Jul 19, 2008 2:37 PM:How naive you are Murrieta Res., innocent people DO plead guilty because as Senior said, the DA heaps on charges to force a plea bargain and they hold all the cards. It costs average citziens tens of thousands to defend themselves with no guarantee in the justice system. The families sound honorable in making their sons bear the guilt of the crimes they did commit. I hope they are able to appeal outside of this unreasonable county because, again, JUSTICE WAS NOT SERVED HERE.
I have followed this case closely and they were railroaded and, just as in the recent off duty police shootings, the law is one-sided. The judicial system is warped.

consider the options wrote on Jul 19, 2008 3:41 PM:Murrieta is extremely materialistic (expensive cars,clothes and partying)and "MOST" kids are brought up that way. The kids who dont have money know this and go out and commit crimes just to keep up. I feel extremely sorry for the victims of these boys, but if the boys parents didnt teach them whats really important in life and the City didnt offer any alternatives to drinking and getting high on a Saturday Night What do we Exspect?

Face it wrote on Jul 19, 2008 3:46 PM:He was hung because he's white. Go to Perris, or Elsinore and you'll find far more egregious crimes being committed by REAL self described gang members. There are people sentenced to less time than this for killing people. The guy was definitely no angel, but 25 years is out of line with what is typical sentencing. He apparently did NOT have good representation.

Alex wrote on Jul 19, 2008 4:03 PM:This Fight Club does meet the criteria of a gang which is a group of people operating together engaging in criminal activity. But the punishment our court system doles out needs to be sensible and fair. Utilizing factors that can be termed serious and irrevocable. These may include length of time the gang has existed, the history and seriousness of crimes committed and the gang size in terms of actual members. Further, considering the extent of negative impact a gang may inflict on society helps us to assess the overall picture. Gangs like the Hells Angels, Crips and Mafia obviously carry these factors to an extreme. Deservedly, they merit the maximum sentence our justice system considers. But if you look at the Fight Club in light of the factors above, the punishment really is cosmic overkill. They do need to pay their crimes to society, but not at this rate. It reminds me of the three strikes law that automatically sends a criminal to life in prison for something as small as stealing a slice of pizza. We need a more common sense criminal system.

Stephanie wrote on Jul 19, 2008 4:47 PM:They were over-sentenced. This keeps happening in Riverside County. Don't think for a minute that they were not forced into this plea agreement. If you don't think that looking at 60 years is a threat...thats what they tell these defendants will happen if they loose at trial. And to Murrieta resident, I hope you don't have kids. Anyone can get tied up in our legal system. I have seen it happen. You can be at the wrong place at the wrong time. I hope it does not happen to anyone you know.

Oh I get it wrote on Jul 20, 2008 8:41 AM:What you are telling me, in not so many words is, these kids couldn't be bad guy street gang members...because?

Well, because they are white middle class kids in nuevo-suburbia...gang members and street criminals, after all, come from inner city ghettos and are either brown or black.

Ya, right!

To Consider The Options wrote on Jul 20, 2008 9:44 AM:Why does the City have to offer alternatives to "drinking and getting high on Saturday night"? It is not their responsibility to entertain. In my day the words I'm bored were met with, there's plenty of work to do around here. As youngsters we made our own fun, none of it organized. As teenagers the same thing. There were dances that were put on by a church or the YMCA, we went bowling, volunteered at the local hospital, most teens also held a part time job. Oh, is that a dirty word? I don't ever remember my parents driving me any where. The boys played sandlot baseball or football. Find an empty lot and we played dodgeball. No TV no video games, Does anyone know how to play Jacks or shoot marbles? Sure we always had a few kids that got in trouble and they were usually given the option of going to jail or in the military. Too bad that is not an option today.

Consider the Options wrote on Jul 20, 2008 3:11 PM:We are in the age of technology somehow I dont think marbles and jacks will cut it these days. The economy is so bad if you check the stats there are very few jobs available for teens. There are not many lots left in which to play dodgeball. Most have been replaced by strip malls and housing developments. Skateboarding is a very popular hobbie, but there are very limited places in which young people are aloud to do this. Dances are great but usually require financial and parental backing, both of which are lacking. If the City Murrieta really wanted to set a good example for young people and help to keep crime down they should volunteer some of their time. "Cliche" It does take a village.

right action wrote on Jul 20, 2008 5:01 PM:these guys were not innocent nor were they over charged. Don't do the time crime if you can't do the time. Its pretty simple.
Have a nice day.

a murrieta-youth wrote on Jul 21, 2008 3:15 AM:"An evil tongue is sharper than the sharpest sword edge"
I honestly can't figure out how this justice system sleeps with the enemy and points their fingers at somebody else making a few bad decisions. What is the point of throwing this guys LIFE in a can? Nobody was ever killed; and the reason that this "fight club" was created was probably because you get severe and harsh punishment for doing anything against the law in Murrieta. Of course, there must be at least 1 group of people that get tired of being pushed around by the laws, and the cops, and the restrictions, and the INEQUALITY. CHILDREN have become the scapegoats to our society. How long will our community watch the future turn into the past and see dreams turn into nightmares?
Our adult generation believe each other and like to follow wherever the herd roams.

TO ALL ADULTS: instead of judging how CREDIBLE i could possibly be, question how credible YOU are. You should look for the answers by yourself and not just believe what the cop says, or the politicians, or the school teachers, or the church or even THE NEWS AND THE TV! The answers are staring us in the face and we run from them like cowards. "The fact of the matter is, we know what the right thing to do is, the hard thing is doing it."

"Active evil is greater then Passive good"

The evils of this world always run and hide, while the heroic and brave always stand up, like a light shining through dark clouds.
"Let the spirit of perseverance Thrive in the face of adversity"
This is not the first time where corruption has taken its root, time always tells, but we still get to decide how the story ends, stand up for your life, stand up for what is RIGHT!
Lives are at stake

Railroad Engineered wrote on Jul 21, 2008 8:40 AM:Riverside is plagued with corruption! Power hungry cowards roam the corridors of county government.Do these kids lives really matter when "My" career is at stake? Justice was needed ,but not served. The D.A. and Deputy D.A. both need to face charges for abuse of power and enhancement of a crime for personal gain and/or profit. Oh,they might also fit the "Gang" special circumstance, as applied so liberally in this county.

To a Murrieta Youth wrote on Jul 21, 2008 10:55 AM:Your statements scare me, literally. The police know what they are doing and it took months before they had enough evidence to even arrest these thugs. There is no conspiracy by the DA's office to make them scapegoats. Justice was served. So, no one was killed, right, but there were victims. Ask them how they felt. If you have never been a victim of a crime you will never know how it feels and how long it takes to get over it.

evil wrote on Jul 21, 2008 11:34 AM:How, exactly, is putting criminals in jail evil?
These young men had choices and they chose unwisely. Now they must pay for thier sins.
BTW... hitting someone with a beer bottle and assaulting them and stealing from local homes and businesses sounds evil to me.
Where was your righteous indignation when these young men were doing drugs and harming members of our community.
Let all gang wannabees be warned. This could very well happen to you.

to a murrieta-youth wrote on Jul 21, 2008 11:43 AM:Sounds to me like you should have given this flowery diatribe to the members of fight club six months before they got arrested. You might have talked them out of doing something stupid.

Instead of looking at your community and government who only reacted to the crimes, doesn't the individuals that committed the crimes have at least some responsibility here?

to Railroad Engineered wrote on Jul 21, 2008 11:45 AM:I hear people talk about how corrupt our local government is but they never seem to be able to back it up with proof.

to Railroad Engineered wrote on Jul 21, 2008 11:48 AM:regardless of corruption, these characters still committed the crimes. They could have avoided all this nonsense by doing the right thing in the first place.

somebody wrote on Jul 21, 2008 11:50 AM:Why did they change the DA on the case 3 times?
Why were 4 other boys brought in in 1/08 for the same thing connected with Anthony, and not get the Gang Enhancement? 2 of the boys both with priors (probation for this same thing) got their charges dropped to Misdemeanors? Justice for some and not others. Why wasn't this in the news?

to a murrieta-youth wrote on Jul 21, 2008 11:50 AM:you wrote: "stand up for what is RIGHT!"

Wouldn't this whole mess been avoided if Smith and his pals practices this themselves?

to Consider the Options wrote on Jul 21, 2008 11:59 AM:Really? You are going to use boredom as an excuse for committing felonies?
So far I have seen the gamet of excuses.
1. They are innocent.
2. They did it, but it's not bad enough to justify real prison time.
3. The government is corrupt. Therefore nulifying the convict's culpability.
4. (This one cracks me up) They did the crimes but they should be excused because they were bored.

You folks really keep me entertained. Keep trying. Eventually you might come up with a plausable excuse for such bad behavior.

gangs and wanabees wrote on Jul 21, 2008 12:14 PM:Be warned. Murr-town hates gangs in ANY form. Best be moving along to a community that condones this sort of behavior. We won't stand for it and you will go to prison for a LONG time.
Have a nice day (somewhere else).

to a murrieta-youth wrote on Jul 21, 2008 12:47 PM:Ah the righteous indignation of youth.
Let's have this conversation in 10 years. come talk to us about injustice and responsibility after you see your community constantly trashed by young people. After you invest your life savings into a home for your family you want a place where they can thrive and be safe.
You have over complicated the issue at hand. These young men chose crime & cheap thrils instead of the path of what is right. Its very simple. These guys thought it was all fun and games. I am sure they had a good laugh at their victim's expense. Where is your sense of right and wrong for the folks that were robbed, beaten and burned?
What exactly is "right" about that behavior?

Excuses exuses.... wrote on Jul 21, 2008 12:53 PM:I get tired of reading all the excuses. The first bad excuse is "there is nothing to do in Murrieta". What a bunch of garbage. I can't even believe people use this excuse to commit a crime. Then you have the bunch that thinks what they got for time is harsh. Well, lets ask the victims if they think their sentence was too harsh. These punks got what was coming to them and I hope it sent the message that this will not be tolerated. And then they have the nerve to whine about the justice system. They should have thought of that before they commited their nasty little deeds!!

arnys army wrote on Jul 21, 2008 1:16 PM:you neo-con spin propagandists never let the truth seep into your false fantasy. No one said let them go,everyone agrees that FAIR punishment was due. A 25 year sentence is a system using the sword not a shield.

to arnys army wrote on Jul 21, 2008 1:49 PM:You called us: neo-con spin propagandists.
I see your word of the day calendar is really paying off.
Fair doesn't cut it anymore. our legal system was "fair" in California before 3 strikes and gang enhancements. Guess what, our young people were killing eachother by the dozens. Fair sentencing was not a deterent. Older felons got younger kids to actually commit the crime because kids got less harsh sentences. So the legal system adapted. It grew and changes to meet the threat facing it.
So, yeah, we are harsh on criminal and guess what, it is working. Crime is down in RV county.
So you keep whining about all these tough sentences and I will be able to take my kids to the park without worring about getting robbed or them stepping on a used needle.
These young men came from good families and they all know right from wrong. They had months to clean up their acts and do the right thing. Instead they kept taking it to the next level and it bit them on the back side. Kennedy said "ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country".
Arny, do you practice this? Did Smith and his friends work to make our community a better place? Did they? Nope they didn't. They made life miserable for their families and their victims. The brought the quality of life down in our town not up.
So yeah the sentences are tough. We want them to be tough. We are sick of thugs making us feel unsafe on our own streets.
Now the gangs can be scared for a change. They can wonder when Johnny Law will be coming through the door or they can get out of town. I don't care. Either way works for me.
so go ahead and call me a neo-con spin propagandist but at I can sleep a lot better knowing these criminals are not hassling, stealing or attacking my family.
BTW... I hate the 3 strikes law. It is too soft on crime. I want a 1 strike law. Violent felons should have to spend life in prison for any violent crime. In my opinion, our legal system is too soft on crime and we need to get rid of bleeding heart, liberal, hand wringing politicians and get serious about really wiping out gangs in RV county.

sword not a shield. wrote on Jul 21, 2008 2:06 PM:Arny wrote "A 25 year sentence is a system using the sword not a shield".
Well, have you ever heard the phrase "the best defense is a good offense"?
Let this be a lesson to other criminals in our community. Be prepared to spend lots of time in jail. We have NO problem locking you up and throwing away the key. Worrying about stiff sentences is like closing the barn door after the horse has run off. Its too late. If you really want to help young people, work on prevention. I don't mean the government should work on prevention. I mean YOU, the concerned citizen. You have to get out to the schools and places where young folks gather and warn them about our "evil, corrupt, wicked, whatever" criminal justice system. Tell them over and over again that they need to avoid crimes to avoid being sent to such an awful place as our penal system.
If you really wanna make a difference, work with at at-risk kids BEFORE the government gets involved. Be sure to teach them about person responsibility and the old axiom "due unto other as you would have them do unto you".
You see, we teach this to kindergatertners and they get it. Sometimes, some folks just don't get it. For some people, it is easier to blame the government or society than to do the right thing.

how fair was it wrote on Jul 21, 2008 2:11 PM:So how fair was it when Smith committed those assaults and armed robberies? Wouldn't it have been fair of him to leave his victims alone?

To Arnys army... wrote on Jul 21, 2008 2:28 PM:Read the comments, NOT everyone agrees with the punishment!

the real travesty wrote on Jul 21, 2008 2:34 PM:Smith's grandfather called this a "travesty". I respectfully disagree. The real travesty is the fact that his family didn't step in to stop his descent into crime and it was a real travesty that it took our police department months to react to the crime spree these guys were on.
Travesty actually started months/years before these guys were arrested when someone from their families and friend could have intervened. Instead, all of you stuck your head in the sand or looked the other way until it was too late. Shame on you for trying to shift blame on to the community or the police or DA or society. Please place blame where it belongs. Squarely on the shoulders of those who committed these crimes in the first place.

to To Arnys army... wrote on Jul 21, 2008 4:11 PM:It does not matter what we think about the sentence. You won't get what you want here. You have to go to the law makers in Sacramanto.
But since most folks are sick of crime, good luck getting lighter sentences for violent criminals. That will go over like breaking wind in church.

Safety First wrote on Jul 21, 2008 8:05 PM:I think that I would feel safer if I knew that the defendants had or would have received a fair trial. While I have never been a victim of a violent crime that was not perpetrated by a "peace officer" I have been falsely accused and had to defend myself. If is exstreamly expensive to defend yourslf against even a misdomeanor crime and the D.A. has deep pockets and no concious. Any one can be accused! I think that overcharging is the same as falsifying a police report or peppering “evidence”.

Re to a murrieta youth wrote on Jul 22, 2008 12:53 AM:Of course they need to be punished! What exactly do you think I am trying to say? The kids need to be taught a lesson, not play the roles of a bad example. They deserve FAIR treatment, which means dropping the outrageous gang enhancement. In 10 years you wanna know what I predict? I will be paying money (all of us americans, through taxes, of course) to keep them in prison when they should really be taught to contribute to society rather then to accept they're only good at taking away from it. Do you know how much it costs to hold 1 prisoner in prison for 1 year? $30,000!!!!!!!!! I am making my opinions based on the facts that I have attained; NOT ON SPECULATION OF WHAT I MAY BE THINKING. You people are being so arrogant and blind! I don't pretend to know what I don't know, but you people try and prove what you don' know. Pure Arrogance.
Please just go look for yourself, and not believe the "facts" that you hear someone else talk about. Know the truth, not believe it.
They will still be punished, i am saying to drop the gang enhancement.
put yourself in their shoes.... 2 or 3 of the boys were attending college, and now will probably not get that chance again....ESPECIALLY WHEN YOUR RECORD SAYS THAT YOU ARE A PREVIOUS GANG MEMBER!!!
Anthony will be marked FOR LIFE, no matter what job, school, or community he interacts with.

to Re to a murrieta youth wrote on Jul 22, 2008 8:11 AM:Cry me a river. All of you know right from wrong. Any 5 year old knows that crime is wrong.
These guys all had choices. No one made them commit these crimes.
They all knew full well that they oculd get in trouble and they knew it was wrong. It is a cautionary tale. Tell all your friends. Murrieta don't play with ANY criminals. Commit a crime here and GO TO JAIL. Get it?
Wanna change the law? Go to Sacramento and talk to the law makers. Guess what, they all got elected by being tough on crime. They won't get re-elected for letting off violent criminals with easy sentences.
As for Anthony being marked for life, he should have thought of that BEFORE he acted.
So keep griping about the government and society but at the end of the day he knew better and he did it anyway.

to Safety First wrote on Jul 22, 2008 8:20 AM:yep, crime doesn't pay.
My advice to future criminals, Don't do anything you are not fully prepared to pay for with years and years of your life.

these guys are not innocent. It took MPD months to compile enough evidence to convict them. They all racked up a lot of crime and it is all documented with witnesses and evidence. If they were wrongly convicted, the ACLU & Innocence Project would be all over this. Guess what, no one is running to defend these guys because they are all guilty.
It is easy to blame the so called corrupt government but that really only works on Law and Order or X Files.
In the real world DAs and cops go after criminals they know they can get convictions on based on witnesses and evidence. There is plenty of dumb people committing crimes. The cops don't need to make stuff up to get guys this arrogant, mean and stupid.
Frankly, they were such bad criminals they made it really easy for the DA and cops to make their case against them.
Sadly, your pals hurt our community and now it is time to pay the piper.
Have a nice day.

to Safety First wrote on Jul 22, 2008 8:39 AM:MPD did not need to falsify reports or pepper evidence. After the first couple of arrests these guys were falling all over themselves to rat out their buddies. A huge amount of the testimony and evidence gathered was based on the other defendants all trying to save their own hides. The old axiom is true, there is no honor among thieves.
Face it, the DA had plenty of evidence and it was mostly supplied by someone trying to get a better deal.
The shear volume of evidence against them was overwhelming and it was provided by the defendants blathering away. The cops just wrote it all down and presented it in a nice little package to the DA.
Are they criminals? Yes. Are they criminal geniueses. I think not. Did they act with honor & integrity before or after the crimes were committed. No.

reply from consider the options wrote on Jul 22, 2008 8:53 AM:Even with all our good intentions, Face it, Our Society has created these young criminals, take responsibility.

Rasta Man wrote on Jul 22, 2008 9:04 AM:The point being made,"is the sentence fair?" It is beyond some to separate the verdict from the sentence. The brains development and reality of consequence, are not present at this age. Young people deserve a reasonable chance to recover from their mistakes. 25 years is not reasonable. And you call yourselves Christians?

the DA goes after anyone wrote on Jul 22, 2008 10:14 AM:Take this into heart, this is the DA that is quoted as saying, " it takes a good prosecutor to get a conviction, it takes a great prosecutor to convict an innocent man." If you stood in his shoes, you could make these kids look like anything, and that is exactly what he has done. A gang... Maybe if murrieta had gangs, it would give the cops some actual work for their raised wages. What's so hard about being a cop in murrieta?

Embrace the future wrote on Jul 22, 2008 1:32 PM:There is no way that murrieta or any city can keep gangs out of there city, forever. It will happen, one day, just like your kids will try drugs and alcohol. People aren't perfect and we make mistakes, trying to keep it out until the one day the crap hits the fan, won't cut it. One day, actual gangs may move into murrieta, start drug-dealing and start marking the town up... Cuz that's how gangs are funded. but, NOT the drunk, roid-raged "fight club" that you people embellished to be a gang. Smith never knew he was in a gang, so NO he did not know EXACTLY (key word) exactly what he was getting himself into. And it takes a lot more then one person to change a law, it takes one person to be the spark to light the fire. People just have to understand what is right to be fighting for, and they will fight. Crime is wrong...HAHAH duh. But crime isnt black or white, you can't look at all the grey and just call it black. You can't honestly believe that this kid deserves to be put in prison for over 1/4 of an average human life. And if you do, you need to wake up and smell the coffee, 25 years is a death sentence. What would you do as a 47 year-old, just getting out of prison looking for a job, marked as a previous gang member, having to explain why to every employer, even a McDonald's. You mind as well put him in for life because the world will advance far too much in the next 25 years and he won't be COMPATIBLE. In the words of another great man, "GIVE ME LIBERTY, OR GIVE ME DEATH!"

to Embrace the future wrote on Jul 22, 2008 4:09 PM:I am not naive enough to think we can keep the gangs out completely but I do know that all businesses and criminals prefer to work where it is easiest to make a profit. If we make life tough on gangs and gang members in their infancy, we make it tough for them to make a buck and to run criminal enterprises.
Quite frankly all of these guy knew what the did was wrong. Now all of you are whining because the sentences are long and hard.
I do not care how long he has to spend in prison. Every day these guys are in prison is one less day they are in our community.
You are quoting Henry about liberty and death. I find it absurd that you would compare common street thugs with a founding father.
I grew up in California and I have told my kids over and over again that the California Penal System is a terrible place for anyone BUT it is the individual's duty and responsibility to be a decent human being.
You are asking all of us for forgivenness for a young man who committed ugly mean crimes. Quite frankly, I am all done with forgivenness. Forgiveness does not deter criminals. hard time and the 3 strikes law is the only thing that makes an impact on these guys.
Why in the world should we keep turning the other cheek only to have it slapped over and over again by people who repeatedly take advantage of folks who try to forgive and forget. Remember, repeat offenders are about 80 percent. Smith had many opportunities to do the right thing and he repeated escalated his crimes. Why in the world should this sort of repeated bad behavior warrant leniency?
I think it sucks that he will be middle aged when he gets out. But many of you think the sentence was too stiff. That it is not fair. When we gave everyone in California less harsh sentences they had a bad habit of committing more crimes when the got out. So what should we do. Be kind and forgiving and let crime rate soar to what is was in the 70s and 80s or should we continue to put our boot on the neck of people who repeated flaunt the law and harm defenseless people?
Please do not compare Henry to Smith. Adams committed the crime of treason against an unjust government but he did it in the open. He did not try to cower and hide and sell out his friends for a better deal when King George sent his troops after him.
Smith and his buds are cowards who would continue to hurt and rob folks until someone stopped them. An easier sentence would have been a message to other thugs that this behavior was acceptable. Well, tell all the young people you know. It is not acceptable.
Have a nice day.
Henry did not say "give me liberty or give me death" to avoid doing prison time for robbing folks.
In the words of Bart Simpson: give me a break.

to the DA goes after anyone wrote on Jul 22, 2008 4:14 PM:Nope. He only goes after dumb criminals who leave a trail of evidence and witnesses. The DA got almost all of his evidence from the other members of the gang trying to beat the rap by ratting out a friend.
Face it. All these guys sold each other out because they did not want to go to prison either.
You should not be mad at the DA or cops. You should be mad at all these so-called friends who were quite willing to sell each other out for a deal.

to Rasta Man wrote on Jul 22, 2008 4:17 PM:These guys had months and months to set thing right before the cops ever had wind of their activities. Exactly how long do we give someone who is robbing and huring people to mend the error of their ways before we step in?
The first crime was a mistake. Everything after that was intentional.

to reply from consider the options wrote on Jul 22, 2008 4:20 PM:You can blame society but all of these guys came from good homes and had plenty of good opportunitied to make better choices. God gave us free will. no one forced them to commit crimes. They enthusiastically engaged in criminal activity.

to Rasta Man wrote on Jul 22, 2008 4:27 PM:I agree completely with the sentences and I do NOT consider myself a Christian. I am, however, a big believer in karma. Practice good works and the world will be a better place. These guys all remind me of Earl Hickey before he understood karma. You can blame the universe for your fate but your fate is what you make it. It is more internal than external. It is funny how people make bad personal choices and them blame everything around them for their fate. Until you reach inside and own what you did and what you are, you will nver be free.

to the DA goes after anyone wrote on Jul 22, 2008 4:55 PM:Did you ever think that the reason Murrieta does not have a serious gang problem is because MPD and the DA squash anything that has any resemblence of gang related crime?
We are as susceptable here as anywhere else in RV county to gangs, drugs and crime. The difference here is this, we empower and encourage MPD to go after criminals with all they got to keep them out.

To embrace the future... wrote on Jul 22, 2008 8:54 PM:Like I said before you bleeding hearts are a dime a dozen. Excuses, excuses, excuses!!!

Consider the Options wrote on Jul 27, 2008 9:18 AM:OK excuses, excuses, excuses, perhaps your right. I guess I am just a bleeding heart liberal.

realist wrote on Jul 31, 2008 9:38 PM:It may be a long time down the road, but remember these guys (currently very young guys) I might add, will be released. Do we think living among other even more hard core thugs for such a long period of time that they will be any better citizens when they get out???????

Ironic wrote on Aug 3, 2008 7:44 AM:I kind it incredibly ironic that people defending violent criminals are complaining about an unjust legal system. Which came first, the criminal or the system to stop them?
where was you sense of injustice when Smith and his pals were violating the rights of their fellow citizens? Have any of you bothered to ask their victims if they needed help in anyway? Have you offered to take them food or sit and pray with them? Or help them financially until this is all over? I doubt it. You all seem to be self absorbed and focuses on the sentences and not the impact of the crimes. No wonder these guys got in trouble with friends like all of you.
Have a nice day.

to realist wrote on Aug 3, 2008 7:50 AM:realistically, with a short sentence they would have been out 18-36 months before committing another crime. Repeat offenders have a high rate of committing more crime. Look up statistics on recidivism. It is running about 70 percent. All we can do (realistically) is increase the gap between their crimes. So realistically we can have them commit crimes in a couple of years of a couple of decades. I prefer to put it off for as long as possible.
Have a nice day.

Jesse wrote on Aug 14, 2008 8:26 AM:first of all i knew these guys first hand...they did not call themselves the fight club. that is a name the murrieta pd dubbed on them. yes they got in fights alot but most of the time they were started by other people. calling darrel racist names and such.

to consider the options wrote on Oct 5, 2008 8:43 AM:Dont make excuses for these savage animals. it sounds like one of your kids are part of this convicted fight club.