ESCONDIDO: Two routes through city considered for high-speed rail
State officials weigh Interstate 15 path vs. inland path
By DAVID GARRICK - Staff Writer | ∞
ESCONDIDO ---- With momentum growing behind plans to build a high-speed rail system in California, one decision facing state officials is whether the 800-mile line should travel through Escondido along Interstate 15 or follow a slightly more inland route that would connect to the Escondido Transit Center.
The more inland route through the city would allow high-speed rail passengers to conveniently transfer to Sprinter trains or buses when they reach Escondido. But it would add about $900 million to the rail line's $42 billion price tag, said Brian Hausknecht, a consultant for the California High Speed Rail Authority.
Most of the $900 million would be spent building underground tunnels that would bring the tracks inland from the freeway to the transit center, and then back out to the freeway, Hausknecht said this week. The transit center, which is at Valley Parkway and Quince Street, is about a quarter-mile east of the freeway.
If the authority chooses the freeway route, Hausknecht said that a high-speed rail station would probably be built somewhere just south of the El Norte Parkway freeway exit, about two miles from downtown Escondido and the Sprinter line.
The authority opted for the freeway route when it plotted the proposed rail network three years ago, but Hausknecht said a more detailed study of station locations will begin soon.
"The next phase of work is to revisit the station locations and alignments," Hausknecht told the Escondido City Council during a presentation last week. "There is no question that the transit center location is far superior for connectivity to other transit."
Mayor Lori Holt Pfeiler said this week that it would be shortsighted to put the high-speed rail station along the freeway.
"It's so obvious it needs to be connected to the transit center," said Pfeiler. "It might look like a pretty foolish decision to people years later if they choose the freeway route."
Pfeiler has urged her colleagues to support a $9.95 billion statewide bond measure this November that would pay for the first phase of the high-speed rail network.
The willingness of state lawmakers to place the measure on the ballot is a testament to how much skyrocketing gas prices have done to improve the prospects for high-speed rail this year. Similar bond measures have been postponed in previous years due to lack of support among state lawmakers and perceived lack of support among the public.
"If our state is going to continue to have economic vitality, we're going to have to invest in this," said Pfeiler.
Even in a best-case scenario, the rail line would not begin operating until 2020, said Hausknecht.
As proposed, the electric trains would travel at 200 mph between San Francisco, Sacramento, Los Angeles, Riverside, Escondido and San Diego.
Coastal North County would not be part of the route because the authority wants to bring Riverside into the network, making the Escondido route the best way for the line to travel south into downtown San Diego, said Hausknecht.
A trip from San Diego to Los Angeles would take about 80 minutes and cost about $20, said Hausknecht. A trip from San Diego to San Francisco would take nearly four hours and cost about $70, he said.
Councilman Ed Gallo said he also supports the transit center route, explaining that such an approach could benefit from a North County Transit District plan to extend the Sprinter south to Westfield North County mall. The transit district controls the rights of way for that route, which the high-speed trains could use in their return to the freeway from the transit center.
Pfeiler said city and transit district officials should consider relocating the Escondido Transit Center if the high-speed rail authority chooses the freeway route.
"It's a bold thought, but they're already spending billions," said Pfeiler.
Sarah Benson, a spokeswoman for the North County Transit District, said district officials have not studied the possibility of relocating the Escondido Transit Center along the freeway to accommodate the state's high-speed rail route.
Benson also said that the effort district officials have spent recently working on a master plan for upgrading the Escondido Transit Center on its current site makes it unlikely they would embrace a plan to move the facility.
Contact staff writer David Garrick at (760) 740-5468 or dgarrick@nctimes.com.
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Yeah Right wrote on Jul 24, 2008 7:07 PM:Residents of the North County will be able to hitch a ride on a flying pig before this project gets built. There's too many Nimby's in this county and not enough dollars. Other than that I see no problem with it getting off the ground.
Dennis wrote on Jul 24, 2008 7:37 PM:I dont know !! Why can they not build a sub station on I-15 and run a special to it from the transit center, that would work better.
Jerimiah wrote on Jul 24, 2008 8:12 PM:A subway with a movable sidewalk connecting the two stations could be a cheaper solution. There are many airports where you have to travel that far from the plane to the terminal.
where... wrote on Jul 24, 2008 8:13 PM:are they going to manage to place a highspeed rail line down the I-15 corridor..?? Any space along or inside the freeway from Hwy.78 south is taken by regular use lane and H.O.V. lanes.
Chuck wrote on Jul 24, 2008 8:58 PM:The transit networks here are already too fragmented and the last thing they need is another sets of transfers and schedules to plan around. If high-speed won't come to the transit center, then the transit center needs to move to the high-speed station.
I only wish wrote on Jul 24, 2008 9:19 PM:I only wish this could happen. Until it does people will be unwilling to use rail for anything but straight jaunts to work, the beach and back. Oh and maybe a Padres game or two.
hey Dennis wrote on Jul 24, 2008 9:21 PM:REad the article, a station would be built where the Sprinter and high speed meet. Would be just as well because most riders will be going west anyhow.
Esco Local wrote on Jul 24, 2008 10:48 PM:While it does make sense to connect the transit center, $900M is a *LOT* of money. For that amount, you could shuttle people between the two places by buying a brand-new $100K bus each year, pay a bus driver $50K/yr and pay $20K/yr in gas, for 5,300 years!
Spokker wrote on Jul 24, 2008 10:48 PM:I think everybody agrees that it should connect to the Sprinter, which might actually make the thing useful for once.
The question is, who is going to connect it, NCTD or the high speed rail authority?
I believe that the HSR line should take the most direct and fastest route to SD. If that means the Sprinter has to be extended two miles to the HSR line, so be it.
It's not like the Sprinter has anything else going for it.
Yeah Right wrote on Jul 24, 2008 11:06 PM:I doubt that anyone alive including my children will ever see this project become a reality never mind dreaming of ever riding this pink elephant. However, if it ever gets build it would only make sense to build the railway along I-15, the current transit center could expanded all the way north to the intersection of Hale Ave and Washington Avenue. Heavens sake its only two blocks away from the current location, thus saving millions and millions of dollars. Nevertheless, that would make too much sense for any government agency to consider such decision in their planning creation, and who am I to come up with such an idea.
escoman wrote on Jul 24, 2008 11:41 PM:HUGE BOONDOGGLE!
Mike S. wrote on Jul 24, 2008 11:41 PM:I would love to know why the two options listed are the way they are. Why aren't there any "in-between" ideas, such as (1) an I-15 station closer to Valley Pkwy and the Transit Center (which may be part of what Dennis has in mind, and would probably be necessary for what Jeremiah has in mind.) (2) an elevated jaunt over to the Transit Center rather than tunnels? Or are tunnels cheaper than elevated rail? (3) A station far enough South on the 15 to connect vertically with a new Sprinter stop under the freeway?
I'm curious why the original plan was for a station just south of El Norte. More room on the freeway?
Tom wrote on Jul 25, 2008 3:21 AM:Run the tarnsit services to wherever the station is. Not doing so is just dumb.
Oh goody wrote on Jul 25, 2008 5:54 AM:another transfer point, gee maybe I can get up to five a day!
Who wants wrote on Jul 25, 2008 6:38 AM:to go where this train is going anyway? What a waste of money.
Bond Measure wrote on Jul 25, 2008 6:57 AM:I wish people would realize that bonds have to be paid back by the state with taxpayer dollars. We already have the highest state taxes in the US and still not enough money to pay for all the previous bond measures. Don't blame our Governor for deficit spedning when people keep approving bonds that we don't have the money to pay for. Maybe you just want your taxes raised again? We certianly don't need that on top of the huge increases that Obama has planned should he win.
Vote NO wrote on Jul 25, 2008 8:10 AM:Although I have long been a proponent of a high-speed rail system in this state, I would not vote for a bond measure until there is a final, approved plan. Otherwise, all that money will be sucked up by the "planning" people for as many years as they can, then they will be back at the trough, begging for billions more to be able to actually build the system.
Mike S. wrote on Jul 25, 2008 8:26 AM:"Who wants to go where this train is going?"
What, you've never wanted to go to San Diego, Los Angeles or San Francisco? Is North County that insular that its residents don't want to go any of those places? I can't imagine a better route for high speed rail in the United States. And most of Europe and Asia already has high speed rail on their most traveled routes.
Vote NO: you don't want to pay for planning? You think high-speed rail systems can be built sensibly without LOTS of planning? Seems to me the most obvious lesson from this whole article is that careful planning is vital for a successful system.
id rather pay for this... wrote on Jul 25, 2008 8:47 AM:than fire protection for the cities
Dave wrote on Jul 25, 2008 9:13 AM:Could you Imagine, Putting in a station where the Sprinter crosses under I-15. THen the connection would be an elevator. In the mean time people could use the elevator to transfer from the sprinter to the bus that will be going down I-15
Boat wrote on Jul 25, 2008 9:16 AM:It can't be built fast enough as far as I am concerned. Mass transit around here has always been terrible.
Should have been done long ago. I remember riding BART out of S.F. to Concord when I was stationed up there. I recall thinking how cool it was. Especially as we passed all of those cars stopped on the freeway. This was back in the '70's.
I've been to London and ridden The Tube. You can go anywhere, even out to Heathrow Airport. I suppose that would be asking way too much.
I love where the Sprinter wrote on Jul 25, 2008 9:24 AM:stops now, industrial parks!
GFN wrote on Jul 25, 2008 9:34 AM:Please, please, please plan this for the benefit of the traveler and not the cost. The project will end up costing twice as much as current estimates anyway so get what is best. Do it right; DON'T do it the asinine way the did the Sprinter!!!
Kevo wrote on Jul 25, 2008 9:42 AM:I would believe it would NCTD's job to connect the system, however there is a provision in the bond measure that some of the money would be used to improve the feeder systems like the sprinter. However, SD will have to wait til the extension bond to even worry about this. Coordination is key, and that is a hard thing for separate gov't agency to do.
Consultants always win wrote on Jul 25, 2008 10:32 AM:Typical boondoggle. It's too late for high speed rail in this state. The population is too dense and the routes are taken over by underutilized and overpriced HOV/Toll Roads. If the government wants to build rail, start with a county wide system similar to Bay Area Rapid Transit (BART) that is proven to work. Once it's proven on a regional level, think about high speed to connect the major cities. Until then, the consultants who plan tunnels through the Santa Ana mountains and high speed rails will continue to rake in our hard earned money.
Jim wrote on Jul 25, 2008 10:45 AM:Pretty funny - Our "officials" are talking about restructuring the I-15 area before the toll road (oops . . . "H.O.V. lanes") are even completed. We'll be paying to destruct/alter what isn't even built yet on I-15.
Jimmy wrote on Jul 25, 2008 10:48 AM:What is a "plastic jug:? Who buys a plastic jug at VONS?
An other Sprinter wrote on Jul 25, 2008 10:56 AM:Let's see. 70 bucks and four hours to San Francisco. Or, less money and less time by plane. HMMMMM.
escondido girl wrote on Jul 25, 2008 11:02 AM:i hope this goes through... how great would it be to travle for less
To wrote on Jul 25, 2008 11:09 AM:Once you factor in time for driving to the airport, paying for parking and gas, checking in, going through security, baggage claim, and then finding transportation into the city, it will probably be less expensive and take less time than flying to San Francisco.
No Way Willy wrote on Jul 25, 2008 11:53 AM:This will NEVER happen - especially not after the SPRINTER fiasco. I live in Escondido and work in Carlsbad/Vista area. I can drive to work in 30 minutes, or take the SRINTER and transfer to a bus for a nice hour and a half ride. Hmmmm - I'd rather spend time with my family and have quality of life! I also do not like commuting with a bunch of homeless people and loud students.
R THEY INSANE wrote on Jul 25, 2008 1:50 PM:900,000,000.00 just to stop in Escondido? You could build 10 TEN YES TEN CENTER'S FOR THE ARTS FOR THAT PRICE!!!!!!!!!
Oh Yeah wrote on Jul 25, 2008 2:13 PM:can't wait to visit Bakersfield or Fresno. How about running it down Grand Ave?
billion wrote on Jul 25, 2008 2:27 PM:no, more like 142 billion
januaryM wrote on Jul 25, 2008 2:58 PM:Oh please dont build anymore Art Centers...the one we have is just one too many.
"If our state is going to continue to have economic vitality, we're going to have to invest in this," said Pfeiler.
California has economic vitality? Someone has a few loose screws here!
Escondido couldnt even support the bike riders that use the Sprinter,there is too many of them.
This council will NEVER get anything right,EVER!
Like the Great Carnack I see this Council wasting more of your hard earned tax dollars of studying subjects over their heads.
Vote the Slimeballs out Nov.08
Oceanside Chris wrote on Jul 25, 2008 3:03 PM:That's the name: The Flying Pig! The first poster has it right. Take the Flying Pig from Sandy Eggo to la El-Aye! Twenty dollars today; eighty dollars if it gets built -- at all! All aboard the Flyin' Pig! Oink Oink, more pork!
Mexicat wrote on Jul 25, 2008 5:25 PM:When I was stationed in South Korea, the subway would take you anywhere, it was fast, efficient, and convienient. Anyway, they should build it, I think they should have invested in the train instead of I-15 expansion but if they can make it work then do it.
januaryM wrote on Jul 25, 2008 5:50 PM:TO MEXICAT;
This Council has NEVER done one thing that is "fast,efficient and convienient." They just WASTED $18 MILLION DOLLARS and they are in the RED this year for $MILLIONS$ more ! Wake up the gravey train is over! VOTE them out Nov 08.Mexicast do you pay taxes? Seriously do you?
Spokker wrote on Jul 25, 2008 7:08 PM:"Let's see. 70 bucks and four hours to San Francisco. Or, less money and less time by plane. HMMMMM."
With the price of jet fuel, I wonder if air travel is even going to be a viable industry, especially for short haul trips. Do you want to keep bailing out the airlines or something?
Reminder: NCTD has nothing to do with California High Speed Rail. As a rail proponent I think the Sprinter was a horribly mismanaged project. The Sprinter has nothing to do with CA HSR though.
januaryM wrote on Jul 26, 2008 10:16 AM:TO Spokker.
Reminder: If the Escondido City Council has ANY involvement in any project they will screw it up and make it cost more.Look at their track record.This Mayor is 16 years on this council.This town is a disgusting mess from mismanagement!The rest of the Council are no better when it comes to governing and neither is EPP.Why is Epp still employed by this City? He has cost us millions too.With his decimal point contract errors and typos.We should have an elected City Attorney.Time to clean house!I cant wait to VOTE these slimeballs out Nov.2008
Clean out the rest Nov.2010
JerryL. wrote on Jul 26, 2008 1:38 PM:Wonder why Escondido is so financially going down hill? Our mayor's quote "If our states' going to continue to have economic vitality, we have to invest in this". The state is over 20 BILLION in debt & to her that's "economic vitality". We're lucky she's so great at figures as Escondido is ONLY 9,000,000 in debt........& counting.
Spokker wrote on Jul 29, 2008 12:53 AM:We're 16 billion in debt, not 20. And we didn't accumulate so much debt because of spending on capital projects.
We're in debt because of 12 billion in tax cuts since 1978. We lost 6 billion alone cutting the vehicle license fee, all so you could save $150 a year.
That's why schools are strapped for cash, not because of runaway spending.
Chris wrote on Jul 29, 2008 4:15 PM:I'd rather have a bus that follows the same path. Give me something, and something fast, so that I can save gas money when I have to come into the office twice a week. (200 mile roundtrip)
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