D Murhpy wrote on Aug 5, 2008 12:38 PM:This is why it's so important to label locally raised products. As long as consumers know the cost of locally raised eggs will be higher, I don't see a problem with this. If prop 2 improves the conditions of hens during production to more humane practices, what's the problem?

No Eggs and No Cars wrote on Aug 5, 2008 12:54 PM:Go Green, GO GORE!!

Anna wrote on Aug 5, 2008 12:54 PM:I agree with D Murhpy. I would and do pay more for cage free, veg-fed eggs. It is so worth it to me. With the increase of gas prices, even eggs from out of state are going up in price. So why not spend that extra money, that you are going to spend anyway, on humanely raised and vegetarian fed chicken eggs? Vote YES on PROP 2!!!!!

Johny On The Spot wrote on Aug 5, 2008 1:08 PM:People do not give a hoot whether a TV set or a dozen eggs came from California or China. The American citizens have proven time and again that they are only interested in price and that quality and other concerns such as humane working conditions are way way down the list.

If you are trying to make ends meet in these tough times, price will most likely be the deciding factor on whether eggs get sold.

The article was very correct in saying that production will just move over to Arizona or Nevada if the gov't puts too many restriction on the farmer's business.

Frank wrote on Aug 5, 2008 1:59 PM:Yeah here we go again legislate, legislate, legislate!

What about starting with the removal of the elite economy exempt corrupt politicians. The ones that pass this crap without a thought as to what it will do to an industry, an economy, a family. Eggs were inexpensive food but not anymore.. If they make everything illegal that is inhumane or dangerous then we sit on rocks around the fire and eat beans and corn.

Yeah

Bo wrote on Aug 5, 2008 2:39 PM:Some people will pay extra for California eggs but most won't. I've been inside about 20 egg houses on the west coast. The industry standard is about 6 hens in an approximate 10 cubic foot cage (2'x 2.5' x 2'). If California imposes new standards California farmers won't be able to compete with Oregon, Washington, Arizona, and Nevada egg farmers. If you object to the industry standards don't eat eggs! And don't let the "Free Range" label fool you either; the hens do not freely roam any range, and in fact they never even see sunlight. The "Free Range" hens are just packed into one large hen house cage instead of into the 10 cubic foot cages.

Cecelia wrote on Aug 5, 2008 3:06 PM:Chickens have been bred and raised for thousands of years, but only in my life time have they been exploited with such brutality. A short life in a filthy crowded prison stacked in cages five rows high over a manure pit, in a huge house full of dust and the reek of ammonia. Free the birds! And get rid of the prophylactic use of antibiotics and the salmonella problems to boot. Protect local industry by restricting the import of cage-raised eggs into the state.

Chris wrote on Aug 5, 2008 3:25 PM:A lot of production would shift to other states, but it doesn't mean California shouldn't do the right thing and stop being cruel to Chickens.

Derek wrote on Aug 5, 2008 4:02 PM:Simple solution: also ban the importing of eggs from factory farms.

In fact, if you did this, you might not need to ban factory farms at all, just the sale in California of eggs from them.

The only difference wrote on Aug 5, 2008 4:15 PM:between a politican and a chicken running around in circles is the politican still has his head.

Vista Granny wrote on Aug 5, 2008 4:19 PM:Like many others, I feel that eating meat or eggs or even fish that have had a miserable life and/or painful death is not good for your own health. Chickens are kept in windowless buldings, crowded together, the dew claws and ends of their beaks cut off, where the lights come on and go off two or three times a day. The light makes the chickens think it's time to lay another egg and they do. When they are still quite young, and not very healthy, they get put into chicken sausage, chicken soup, chicken pot pies, etc. Sounds yummy, right? I hope the law gets passed, and then DO ban the sale of out-of-state eggs. If the price of eggs doubles, they'll still be cheap protein.

Humpty Dumpty wrote on Aug 5, 2008 5:19 PM:The way California legislators and their special interests keep citizens and taxpayers is inhumane.
Government should not be the solution to every special interest issue. Why don't people who waste our time with frivolous legislation channel their energy into something that invests into a company or non-profit that raises chickens in a humane fashion for egg production, obviously their is a market for it.

Rob wrote on Aug 5, 2008 5:25 PM:Nanny state, nanny state, nanny state. The scary thing is that so many of you so called Americans are willing to let the 'state' regulate everything in your lives because 'they know better'. It's called 'creeping incrementalism', and pretty soon all of our liberties will be decided by the politicians social engineering. Is there a bigger 'special interest' group out there than the wacko environmentalists who want to control every aspect of our lives? I don't expect or want the politicians to do anything for me except what the founding fathers intended with very limited government. They are going insane with their seemingly unlimited sense of power.

Ragnar wrote on Aug 5, 2008 6:13 PM:The more concentrated livestock production becomes the bigger is the risk of an outbreak of sickness among the livestock and of contamination of the final product. Bird flu spread the quickest in countries that practice bad hygiene and close animal breeding. I see this legislation as a necessary way to reduce this risk. I only see it as a disadvantage to big businesses, and as an incentive to engage in smaller scale and more local production, which in average also employs more labor, creating jobs the local economy needs. I don't get why people here seem to blame politicians when this is a ballot decision that every voter can vote on her/his own. What do you people have against democracy?

factory farming wrote on Aug 5, 2008 6:33 PM:is disgusting ! If " you are what you eat", I will pay for the good eggs! Cheaper is not better.

you dumb people wrote on Aug 5, 2008 7:11 PM:What a bunch of crap. Chickens and eggs are for eating. Our society is a bunch of pansies wearing hats backwards, wearing baggy shorts, and flip slops. Go get a starbucks and fret over the poor chickens. This is part of agriculture. This is the way that millions of you cool ecology minded farts can enjoy your grilled chicken breast sandwiches.

Informed wrote on Aug 5, 2008 7:23 PM:I support this proposition. Factory farmed animals are not fit for consumption. Unfortunately too many people like "you dumb people" are not educated on these issues, so that state has to do if for you. Support this proposition for your health.

Caged Eggs wrote on Aug 5, 2008 7:26 PM:I suppose that the people who are against this proposition, are the same ones who justify driving SUV's by the reasoning that they are safer.

Time for change wrote on Aug 5, 2008 7:32 PM:Proposition 2, the Standards for Confining Farm Animals, is a California ballot proposition in that state's general election on November 4, 2008. The proposition would add a chapter to Division 20 of California's Health and Safety Code to prohibit the confinement of certain farm animals in a manner that does not allow them to tum around freely, lie down, stand up, and fully extend their limbs. The measure would deal with three types of confinement: veal crates, battery cages, and sow gestation crates.

Do you want to continue to support an industy that does not allow animals to turn around, lie down, stand up or extend their limbs?

Mojave Jim wrote on Aug 5, 2008 7:58 PM:I swear Californians are so touch with things, they act like a bunch of fools. I was raised on a farm and trust me, chickens are not people, they are just stupid chickens with IQ's just a little more than a tomato plant. The people in this state are being laughed at by the rest of the country and this stupid proposition is one reason why. We raised chickens on the farm for eggs and when one stopped producing eggs it resulted in capital punishment for the chicken (and Sunday dinner for us).

Grandma was the judge and she carried out the sentence. Today we pay someone to do the dirty work while worrying about the chicken feelings (guess what, they don't really have feeling as such). Besides, who cares.

Anyway this stupid thing will pass, of that I am sure (meanwhile they will be laughing at us yet again.

RG wrote on Aug 5, 2008 8:03 PM:Eggs are eggs. Let the farmers produce them as they are regulated now. Put the effort towards more inspection follow-up. If you don't like them, don't eat them. The only thing this prop will do is cost everyone more money to enjoy the quality we have right now.

Dont Trust the Industry wrote on Aug 5, 2008 10:40 PM:The car companys cried wolf in the 60s when the goverment first started enacting clean air and fuel effeciency standards. They survived just fine and in fact thrived.

Kill the goose wrote on Aug 5, 2008 10:49 PM:Maybe Prop 2 is morally justified and maybe it's not, but it's all cost and very little benefit unless California bans imports of factory-farmed eggs from other states, as Derek and Johny On The Spot seem to recognize. And the winner of the award for the worst logic: Chris! If this passes, not all of chicken farmers are going to "do the right thing," and you'll just more farmers in Arizona and other states doing the "wrong" thing.

Mike H. wrote on Aug 5, 2008 11:57 PM:This proposition was put on the ballot by citizens of this state signing petitions. That's how this democracy works.This isn't about a nanny state, it's about a grassroots movement of the people who worked hard to get these petitions signed and the citizens who signed them. If you don't like it then start your own petitions and stop sitting in your computer chair and whining and crybabying. People are just asking that animals be treated a little more humanely. Try searching "factory farms" on the internet some time. You might learn something. Sorry people life is always changing- deal with it.

Chicken Little wrote on Aug 6, 2008 12:07 AM:The sky is falling! The sky is falling! The factory farm industry is using scare tactics again- surprise- surprise. This industry has no regard for living creatures, their only interest is MONEY MONEY MONEY! Someone once said- "If slaughterhouses had glass walls there would be a lot more vegetarians" I don't give a crap what any other state or anybody else says- this is the right thing to do. Most people have no idea what happens to animals in factory farms. Just because some animals are less intelligent than us gives us no right to put them through horrific abuse. If we are more intelligent then we should be more merciful.

this.... wrote on Aug 6, 2008 12:40 AM:type of farming has been going on for decades and generations of farmers have been supplying the needs of the communities surrounding them using these techniques, now the touchy, feely, activists have to throw their 2 cents into a failing economy just so the can hear the flushing sound as they take down farming industries here in California, Chickens have about the same IQ and attention span as that of a flipping goldfish, as long as the egg farms are kept clean and the birds aren't diseased, let the industry continue to do what it's done for decades, otherwise, this proposition will just drive another tax-paying, state money making industry out of state, this proposition was probably started by the developers who have run out of land to build upon and now are doing anything and everything they can to build on the rural properties that these farms < egg ranchs, dairy farms, pig farms, sheep farms etc... > now sit upon. California has a huge spending problem, driving out money making businesses is not the way to cure it...

Nigel wrote on Aug 6, 2008 1:29 AM:Bird Flu will affect everybody. We need to keep it at the forefront of every business manager's mind. It won't go away so better start preparing...

Sue wrote on Aug 6, 2008 5:05 AM:The chickens are not free rage. I will make sure NOT to buy those eggs. No sunshine, no movement and feed who knows what. Thanks for the picture of those poor animals.
"You are what you eat" Eat good quality food and you will have a good quality body and mind.

Da Bear wrote on Aug 6, 2008 5:21 AM:Who is putting the big money into passing into Prop 2?.... Out of state egg producers !

How come this article fails the Woodward test to follow the money?

To dont Trust wrote on Aug 6, 2008 6:14 AM:How are the car industries (GM, Ford, etc.) doing now?

Dan wrote on Aug 6, 2008 7:24 AM:If you don't like factory produced food, buy your own chickens and YOU do the work. Don't pass a law that prohibits others from doing what is legal and a practice that is worldwide.

I like my factory produced chickens and eggs. I'm a grateful consumer of factory produced meats, eggs and other products.

I no longer live in an agrarian society so its either factory produced or I quit my day job and try and make due with what I can grow in the backyard.

Do you realize wrote on Aug 6, 2008 7:38 AM:the damage chicken droppings and their gas is doing to the environment? NO CARS! GO GREEN, GO GORE!

you know folks wrote on Aug 6, 2008 7:43 AM:You are all so concerned about the well being of the chicken and are willing to pay extra for free range. Every year hundreds of well treated market animals are raised and sold by local FFA and 4H members during the San Diego Fair. Its the best meat available and if you really want that safe well taken care of meat, go down there next year and fill up your freezers for the year.

do you wrote on Aug 6, 2008 7:45 AM:really care?? do you where leather shoes? where did that come from? a chicken has the brain the size of a pea. is it thinking my life sucks being in this cage, I doubt it. I want eggs for $1.00 a dozen not $5.00. care more about people.

It might not be a bad idea wrote on Aug 6, 2008 7:49 AM:to make do with what you can grow in the back yard. It's likely to be a heck of a lot healthier than what you get from a factory farm.

nik wrote on Aug 6, 2008 8:02 AM:Californians deserve whatever happens to them for what the do to themselves. The cost of eggs MAY increase. Eggs not only get sold fresh market, they go into all sorts of packaged food mixes/canned items.

By maxing eggs more expensive to grow in CA, you will indeed make things better for out of state producers. Or more than like, other countries where producing them is cheaper to do, like China.

Use snake eggs wrote on Aug 6, 2008 8:17 AM:taste just like chicken! :) Who dreams up this junk?

Randy wrote on Aug 6, 2008 8:24 AM:Eggactly!

Randy wrote on Aug 6, 2008 8:25 AM:That is a funny yolk!

John wrote on Aug 6, 2008 8:33 AM:There is more to this than just economics. This is more than just animal rights. Californians (from all over the state) have decided to put this on the ballot so you can decide what is right.

For too long have we taken advantage of animals for our own superfluous desires. For too long have animal industries taken advantage of local farmers and ruined local environments. For too long have these same industries hired illegal immigrants, and CHILDREN (see Iowa) to work the most dangerous jobs in the nation.

The government HASN'T been doing its job of regulating effectively. The industry HASN'T been honest with the public (at all). SO, the citizens are holding them both accountable. Democracy in action, America at its finest.

For liver sakes wrote on Aug 6, 2008 8:44 AM:Govt. doesn't think we need water, gas and now eggs.

Dan wrote on Aug 6, 2008 8:55 AM:I grow some of my own food, I hunt a couple of times of year to supplement the food budget. Even then, it only makes up about 2% total food intake for a family of three. Leave the factory farms alone.

It's tough enough to make ends meet so someone else can sleep better at night because they saved a chicken.

Dan wrote on Aug 6, 2008 9:00 AM:Factory farmers are not doing anything illegal. They are responding to consumer demand. How are they hurting anyone, what laws are they breaking?

Prove it without spouting some vague rhetoric or party line from some animal rights group.

Want to save animals? Rescue abandoned pets! I did and now have seven.

DD Wis wrote on Aug 6, 2008 9:02 AM:This is why we need to break our addiction to FILTHY FOSSIL FOWLS to save the planet! You may hear some objections to the concept of a food-free life, but it comes from the CONSERVATIVE WAR AGAINST SCIENCE and must be ignored! There is a scientific consensus that people who eat food will die someday, so you know this is important. PEER REVIEWED STUDY! When the chicken coops are finally empty and cleaned up from the effects of the REPUBLICAN SLIME MACHINE, we can use the roofs for solar panels that I can install myself lots cheaper than a professional would charge.

Umm.. wrote on Aug 6, 2008 9:17 AM:This kind of thing does not work on a regional level for obvious reasons. Those outside the 'region' are free to move in with their products that have an advantage.

Joe wrote on Aug 6, 2008 9:37 AM:It's a shame the bill doesn't ban eggs and veal from other states that don't practice california's increased standards. This just leaves room for massive egg ranches out of state to continue their "banned in california" ranching and the consumers will buy the eggs from them, encouraging them on.

China will own us wrote on Aug 6, 2008 9:41 AM:Do you think the chicken eggs in China
will be better?

How many humans have died from Calif raised chicken eggs?

Continue down this path, the wonderful crops and other foods from Calif will disappear and Made in China labels will take their place.

Do you trust Quality Control in China?

Mike from Escondido wrote on Aug 6, 2008 9:51 AM:Another legislative unfunded mandate from Sacramento. The politicians have no concern for the additional money this will cost us or how many people will again be put out of business by this stupidity. Business as usual

Buy Local wrote on Aug 6, 2008 10:01 AM:I push for more farmer's markets at suitable hours. They should be from 5:00 to 7:00 during the week not from 2:00 to 5:00 or only on the weekend. With the price of gas, I am not going to drive to Solana Beach for their Sunday Farmer's Market when I live in San Marcos.

Lee wrote on Aug 6, 2008 11:07 AM:I 'll have some eggs with this BALONEY !

esteban wrote on Aug 6, 2008 11:30 AM:Chickens are not friends they are food. There is a reason why humans are at the top of the food chain. Have any of you thought that by stacking cages we are able to produce more chickens per square foot? That means more food for everyone. You take away that efficincy what are we left with..soylent green? Soylent green is people remember that.

farmers daughter wrote on Aug 6, 2008 11:39 AM:Big business factories are what what put my dad out of business years ago. Support the local farmers who raise hens/livestock in reasonable quantities. Big business takes enough of our money. My family is voting yes on this measure to hopefully spare other local farmers.

I checked... wrote on Aug 6, 2008 11:45 AM:The cost to the consumer would be less than 1 cent per egg.

Susan wrote on Aug 6, 2008 11:48 AM:The photos shown in this story are not battery cages. The conditions shown do not accurately represent the controversy of battery cages.

Stephanie wrote on Aug 6, 2008 12:17 PM:This is ridiculous. Most of you have never even visited a farm, factory or otherwise, and are not as informed as you believe yourselves to be. Hey, if you want to pay $50 for a dozen eggs, fine. Why not just use your vote at the market, an option that is available to all of you right now?

bogie wrote on Aug 6, 2008 12:23 PM:Stop eating eggs like I did and you won't care either.

The post from "DD Wis" is hilarious.

Democratic Society wrote on Aug 6, 2008 12:32 PM:Anybody believe in voting here? This ballot was put on the ballot by petition gatherers, not Sacramento. In a free society such as ours: If you like the idea Prop 2 advances - vote YES! If you don't, vote NO! SIMPLE! Immature blog entries do nothing except bore me. VOTE!

supersenior wrote on Aug 6, 2008 12:48 PM:This is so stupid. Do you want to get your egg from Mexico? From a state with fewer safety standards. Right now CA has the highest standards for eggs, but because of sympathy for chickens, we will give that up? It is ridiculous for the general public to make decisions about something they have no knowledge of - farming. Should we all vote on how to do plumbing, run a hardware store? I'm actually a pretty liberal Democrat but this law will be damaging to our economy, food safety and is a bunch of nonsense!

From Missouri I write wrote on Aug 6, 2008 1:04 PM:You yayhoos on the left coast will pass this silly legislation in an ill advised effort to appease your misinformed collective conscience.

You will collectively feel like you have really done something worthwhile. But it will just be another demonstration of how reality challenged the average Califorinian has become.

Pork producers will make the transition okay, but it won't be good for them. Smaller, family run farrowing operations will go out of business. Bigger operations will probaby get bigger to absorb the additonal capital outlay.

I don't know about veal. I never understood that food anyway.

But egg production is a different story. Go ahead and pass this silly initiative. Except for a very small number of niche producers, California's egg industry will die. And Iowegan, Texican and Missourian egg producers will benefit.

Rank and file consumers, the ones who have to work for a living, will be the big loosers. Figuratively speaking, money will be taken out of their pokets by all of the moral elitists that want chickens to be the equals of humans.

Chickens produced in free range and\or cage free conditions are just filthy. They are also susuptible to parasites. That is because they are in constant contact with feces. Caged chickens are much cleaner and have a very parasite infestation because they are separated from the manure.

The cage system didn't come about because some corporate executive wanted to be mean to chickens. It came about because a farmer, advised by the University Extension found that chickens were cleaner, healthier, more productive and easier to manage in caged laying systems.

To those of you that whine about wanting vegetarian fed chikens, you should look into avian biology. Chickens were developed from birds types of birds that consumed gobs of insects, arthropods and benthic organisms. It is part of their natural behavior to eat other animals. Consumers that demand vegetarian fed chickens are essentially demanding that the chickens be malnourished.

Be smart Californians. Vote no on Propostion 2. Save your food source. Save jobs. Save an important part of your economy. Or don't. We'll be glad to send lots of Missouri products your way, if you're willing to pay the freight.

to Stephanie wrote on Aug 6, 2008 1:16 PM:take a remedial math course. At less than 1 cent per egg, the cost of a dozen eggs would increase about 8 cents.

Sue wrote on Aug 6, 2008 1:19 PM:Interesting now the picture is GONE!

Budget is fixed wrote on Aug 6, 2008 1:40 PM:Glad our Gov has time to ban cell phones, trans-fat, and now decide where I should get my eggs from- for a second there I thought they were still working on the budget. I'm not from CA, and yes, the rest of the country LAUGHS at this idiotic state. I say YES to $20 eggs!

Davis grad wrote on Aug 6, 2008 1:52 PM:What about the July 2008 study from UC Davis that says Prop 2 is good for consumers?

Frustrated Veterinarian wrote on Aug 6, 2008 2:00 PM:I have spent my career caring for animals and hope that I have a pretty good understanding of what it means to to minimize their suffering. That being said, I am very frustrated with California's ballot initiative system and the ease with which emotionally charged animal oriented issues can be passed. There have been multiple issues that have been passed by a largely urban population with very little day to day interaction with animals other than their pets. Often times this legislation can have detrimental effects suchs as the complete ban on Mountain lion hunting. The desert bighorn population has been very adversely effected by a very inflexible piece of legislation that makes it very hard to control predation on a very endangered population. Similar conservation problems have occurred with the total ban on use of leg-hold traps. If these laws had been passed through the Assembly, there might have been some flexibility built in to minimize the negative effects on endangered species conservation. Another example of poorly thought-out legislation was recently defeated attempt at a spay-neuter bill. As with this current bill being great for Arizona egg producers, it would have supported out of state kennels supplying the needs of this state. I do not see that import bans either for eggs or puppies would be practical. The emotional feelings behind the public support of these issues is understandable but I am very concerned about the repercussions of poorly thought-out and inflexible legislation. Just so we can get the political stuff out of the way, I am literally a card-carrying member of the ACLU and haven't voted for a Republican since 1980. I am an evironmentalist and also very concerned about the poorest people in our communities. This type of legislation does not help either.

Hottie wrote on Aug 6, 2008 2:02 PM:Those of you who cannot comprehend the suffering of animals are simply not evolved enough to understand,

Chick Checker wrote on Aug 6, 2008 2:08 PM:Terrific riff on DD Wiz's usual FINITE FILTHY FOSSIL FUEL post! (9:02 a.m.)Someone has a great sense of the absurd, which DD certainly is.

But go easy -- one thing DD does not have is a sense of humor!

to Budget is fixed wrote on Aug 6, 2008 2:16 PM:Please educate yourself on our democratic processes. The governor has nothing to do with this.
After proponents draft the contents of the initiative, petitions are ciculated and a certain number of signatures must be gathered from registered voters before something can go to the voters on a ballot. No one just decide to put something on a ballot--Geez...

And if everyone laughs at this state why do so many insist on moving here? I say it's for bragging rights!

NAFTA wrote on Aug 6, 2008 2:46 PM:hey folks, just wait until you are getting your eggs from South of the Border, complete with bacteria (salmonella)! At your restaurant, enjoy that Denver Omelet, Eggs Up, Eggs Scrambled, Eggs Benedict, etc; and then the visit to the hospital. Hey, they will throw in some Jalapeño’s on top for your pleasure.

ARTIFICIAL EGGS wrote on Aug 6, 2008 2:47 PM:Don't you people know that eggs can now be produced artificially? Yes, it's a mix of just a few chemicals, add a little yellow dye for the "yolk", and presto ~ EGGS! As for the egg laying chickens, change their formula to make them into chickens with enormous breasts, since white meat is a fave! So if it's done right, no need for Prop 2, because no egg laying chickies!!

Cecelia wrote on Aug 6, 2008 2:48 PM:1. "factory farms aren't doing anything illegal". Since chickens are currently excluded from ANY standards for humane treatment, they could flay them alive and still be within the law.

2. "chickens are stupid and don't have feelings, so who cares". Chickens are NOT stupid. They are friendly, busy, active, adverturous and curious. My hens hop onto my lap and snuggle their heads under my chin. They love to come hunting with me when I pick over the tomatoes for horn worms. They clean up earwigs, snails, fly larvae and all sorts of other insect pests, and they cultivate garden areas before planting.

3. I sell my excess eggs to my neighbors for $3.00/doz., not $50.

4. "free range birds are filthy and covered in manure". That depends entirely on the farmer, not the hen. Same for parasites. If you spend time with your stock and manage them properly, it is not a problem.

5. "caged chickens are healthier". NO animal kept in grossly overcrowded conditions is healthier, hence the excessive use of antibiotics by commercial farmers.

6. "an egg is an egg". NOT so! I could write and essay...

Get your own hens, or find a neighbor who raises them and buy your eggs really locally. Hens are easy to keep and a pleasure to have. They are the most useful and productive animal going. People should be ashamed to reduce them to the status of a thing.

Studies are a dime a dozen wrote on Aug 6, 2008 2:57 PM:First, studies done by most university professors are biased beyond belief, driven first by what will get them their next grant, and second by the politics of of the person doing the study. They already know what they want the answer to be, and then go out and support it.

I can almost guarantee that within a decade, someone will do a study and find out that "free range" vegetarian chickens are unhealthy for consumers. That's because the people behind these types of propositions want us all to be vegetarians, and the best way to do that is to make it as hard as possible to raise livestock. This is just one step in that direction. No different than the radical environmentalists that really want us all to return to the stone age. Each step is just one more toward this goal. And one step at a time, they are convincing just enough to get past that next little hurdle.

ARTIFICIAL MEAT wrote on Aug 6, 2008 2:57 PM:My goodness, vegetarians have been doing without pork or veal for eons! In fact, any meat at all. The tastiest meat can be made of soy and tofu and other ingredients. Try a veggieburger sometimes and just see how yummy yum it is for goodness sake. So wise up and fly straight by becoming a veggie person!! As for the pregnant pigs and so forth, emancipate them and set them free and by so doing you will earn a fast track ticket to paradise. Believe me or not, but think about it!

chick wrote on Aug 6, 2008 3:29 PM:It's a dang chicken!! Let them out and see if they all run to the gate of the farm to escape. Oh wait, they are not that smart. They are for food.

TO BUDGET IS FIXED wrote on Aug 6, 2008 3:30 PM:Hey, whoever you are. It's nice to know you don't live in California. Let's hope you stay wherever you are, but wherever that is, it must be some place where morons abound. This "idiotic state" has the largest agricultural output of any state, the largest population, and the most electoral votes. It's home to Cal Tech and Stanford and is by far the richest state in the Union. It's good here in California, so we're glad people like you don't live here to spoil it all. Load up on eggs fella, I heard they help to grow brain cells, so YOU should eat as many as you can and as often as you can.

Bradley J. Fikes wrote on Aug 6, 2008 3:41 PM:Davis grad:
What about the July 2008 study from UC Davis that says Prop 2 is good for consumers?

I wrote this story. The study didn't say Prop. 2 is good for consumers. That was the spin from the Humane Society of the United States. The study's authors disagree with that spin.

to Mr. Fikes wrote on Aug 6, 2008 4:09 PM:Wow! Nice to know how objective you are with your reporting! I guess what everyone says about the NCT is true.

COMMON SENSE wrote on Aug 6, 2008 4:28 PM:This by far is the biggest waste of oxygen, ink, paper, and time I have ever witnessed. This entire article is the reason why I refuse to sign petitions at the supermarket. Local chicken farms, bring fresh eggs, and chicen meat to our grocery stores at a reasonable price. Perhaps the authors of this proposition would rather buy their eggs from China I hear there is a great method of eggstracting product there, just ask the students of Tianamnmen Square. With all of the issues facing humanity today, the need for us to take care of mother earth, and not to mention the survival of the human race; we have to deal with the PITA crowd. SAVE AN EGG SCRAMBLE PITA.

Nemo wrote on Aug 6, 2008 4:39 PM:Eat this eat, live here, no bags, no drinking and most of all no thinking. Let them think for us. We are sheep. Regardless of the vote a judge who belive he has the power of God can take the vote away and impose his form of sharia law on us. It doesn't matter. We all have loss sight of what freedom is. Get use to.

Kristin wrote on Aug 6, 2008 4:41 PM:I fully support this measure and was a leading signature gatherer in SD county. The time has come to do what's right and healthy, for those who choose to eat eggs and for the environment. These types of factory farms are major polluters to our air, water and soil.

What came first... wrote on Aug 6, 2008 5:49 PM:How about cloning eggs? How about doing some research that will finally answer the question, "What came first, the chicken or the egg?" If it was the egg then perhaps we can forgo the chicken all together. Oops - it is 4:20 - gotta go!

Sandy wrote on Aug 6, 2008 6:05 PM:This issue has nothing to do with caged hens and everything to do with what the Humane Society of the United States wants. The point is being missed. The Egg Ranches are just an easy target for this horrible group. Ask any dog or cat owner in California about AB1634. "The Pet Extintion Bill". I have gone to rally after rally for AB1634. The Humane Society of United States staff shows up in new Mercedes, BMW, and HUGE SUV's armed with a fist full of dollars courtesy of the good people that think they are supporting the Humane Society of America! The HSUS does not care about the HENS!! They only care about getting the citizens of the U.S. to bent to their will. Today, it is Dogs and Cats and HENS. Will it be something you care about tomorrow???

to to Mr. Fikes wrote on Aug 6, 2008 6:36 PM:If you don't think Mr. Fikes is being objective, I challenge you to go through the UC Davis study and find a single implication that Prop 2 is good for consumers. But that probably would require more brain power than a personal attack.

What came first... wrote on Aug 6, 2008 7:16 PM:How about doing some research that will finally answer the question, "What came first, the chicken or the egg?" If it was the egg then perhaps we can forgo the chicken all together. Oops - it is 4:20 - gotta go!

Richard Christiana wrote on Aug 6, 2008 9:08 PM:Perhaps the League of Women Voters could sponsor a debate on Prop 2 with Ginger representing support for and Mrs. Tweedy the opposition. They could also have pro/con technical explanations by Mac and Mr. Tweedy respectively and commentary by Nick and Fletcher..."Eggs from heaven".... "no, from her bum!"

translation please wrote on Aug 6, 2008 9:48 PM:Could someone please tell me what Nemo was trying to say?

Kath wrote on Aug 6, 2008 10:54 PM:Proposition 2 is incredibly basic and common sense. How can you argue with giving animals enough room to turn around? It's simply the right thing to do...

Col Sanders wrote on Aug 6, 2008 11:35 PM:Get a grip people it is just food as long as it is healthy, we are working hard at developing a chicken without legs or wings so no need to worry about them standing and streching!

Fact Checker wrote on Aug 7, 2008 2:39 AM:Frustrated Veterinarian wrote on Aug 6, 2008: “....Another example of poorly thought-out legislation was recently defeated attempt at a spay-neuter bill. As with this current bill being great for Arizona egg producers, it would have supported out of state kennels supplying the needs of this state. I do not see that import bans either for eggs or puppies would be practical....”

The spay-neuter bill referenced here, AB 1634, was NOT defeated & is still very much alive. It will be voted on the floor of the Senate soon, most likely this Thursday or Friday, Aug. 7th or 8th.

In its current version, it would make it ILLEGAL to OWN an INTACT DOG or CAT.

If this bill passes into law, it will have devastating impacts on public safety, public health, and disaster preparedness. By greatly reducing the supply of healthy dogs with all of their instincts intact, as well as their gonads, it will greatly reduce availability of the dogs which can do the jobs of K-9 law enforcement, search & rescue, service and assistance, herding, and hunting, as well as the ordinary, everyday, beloved pet dog or cat.

Frustrated Veterinarian makes a valid analogy between Prop. 2 & AB 1634. Both are the product of Animal Rightists. Both are founded on a “Let them eat Cake” attitude. Both will fail at the stated goals miserably (does Prohibition ring a bell anyone?) and make many people, and their pets, miserable in the process.

Please contact your senator and assembly member ASAP and ask them to OPPOSE AB 1634. And Vote NO on Prop. 2 in Nov..

Dan wrote on Aug 7, 2008 7:12 AM:Folks,

Your being used by HSUS who sponsored this bill to further their agenda.

How can an lobbying organization based out of Wash DC really care about the economic impact this bill will have on Californians? This folks are NOT your local Humane Society.

HSUS believes that if this bill passes, it will set a precedent for the rest of the country. It's happend in the past.
They could care less about California and our economy.

Follow the money- ...and see what's really going on.

Dan wrote on Aug 7, 2008 7:26 AM:Go to your favorite seach engine,

type activist cash and follow the money trail. HSUS is a rip off.

Judy wrote on Aug 7, 2008 8:10 AM:Two points:
1. I can't imagine allowing my students to run around my science lab without rules. So... yeah, our industries do need a certain amount of regulation, not everybody is a responsible citizen left on their own accord.

2. It is not about HSUS, YES on Prop. 2 is about being more humane (as a civilized society).

WOW wrote on Aug 7, 2008 8:13 AM:Another great idea by the democrats and liberals of California to drive more business away and raises prices even further with more ridiculous legislation. Tweny years from now when the only thig left in the state is service workers and welathy retirees.. you can look back to legislation like this and know why.

dollar for one wrote on Aug 7, 2008 8:36 AM:Dime a Dozen was obviously too lazy to look at this study before criticizing it, even though the reporter provided a direct link. This a NOT a dime-a-dozen study. It's more than 100 pages long.

Nick wrote on Aug 7, 2008 8:54 AM:I still can't figure out why vegetarians who don't eat meat, chicken or dairy think they have a right to tell the rest of us how to eat.
Get a life and go hug a tree!

Save a cow, eat a Vegetarian!

Dan wrote on Aug 7, 2008 9:03 AM:Judy,

The industry has regulations and is doing quite well with them.

If its about being human, then prop 2 is a no..

From the study at UC davis "The sources of these added costs per dozen range across the major categories including: (a) higher feed costs (due to more feed consumption per laying hen and fewer eggs per laying hen), (b) higher laying hen mortality, which leads especially to higher pullet cost per dozen eggs
amortized over the life of the flock, (c) higher direct housing costs per dozen eggs (because there are fewer hens per flock and fewer marketable eggs over the life of each hen entering the flock), and (d) higher labor costs (due to fewer hens per flock, fewer eggs per hen and more labor per
dozen in gathering eggs)."

Hen mortality increase with prop 2.

Also from the study...
" Under new rules that eliminated the use of conventional low-cost cage housing systems, the costs of
production in California would be significantly higher than out-of-state farms that have already
demonstrated their ability to compete successfully in the California market. Thus the impact of the initiative would not affect how eggs would be produced, only where eggs would be produced."

HSUS is about the money, they are NOT your local dog/cat shelter. Prop 2, if passed, kills more chickens and doesn't prevent cage farmers from importing their eggs from out of state. So whats the point?

Judy wrote on Aug 7, 2008 9:52 AM:Prop 2 does not have the best welfare of the chickens in mind. If welfare was the issue there should be provisions for better water, food, and overall health. Vote NO on Prop2!

Chicken lover PETA wrote on Aug 7, 2008 10:46 AM:Poor Chickens does this mean its gonna cost me more for a mkchiken sandwich?
my heart goes out to the egg ranchers that have to deal with this ignorance.

Barbara wrote on Aug 7, 2008 11:14 AM:If you think chickens are mistreated and overcrowded in California, you should see the double capacity prisons. Maybe they could be forced to change using animal rights laws.

Ag business is running amuck. There is a new, interesting, easy to read book called "Animal, Plant, Miracle". It explains the waste, and soil depletion from huge farms, and why it doesn't have to be that way.

I choose MacDonalds for fast food eggs because I heard they do not buy from farms that cut the beaks off chickens. Beaks are cut off because of pecking order habits when chickens are crowded really closely. That happens in prisons too.

USA Food wrote on Aug 7, 2008 11:42 AM:Do you love pets? Bring them home and take care of them.

Do you like to eat? VOTE NO.

The UC Davis report is on track.

It is better healthier to have our food come from California than from China, Mexico, Chile, etc. Jobs and our economy need rational folks to vote NO.

PLEASE VOTE NO.

food wrote on Aug 7, 2008 12:00 PM:Love our/your animals at home.

USA grown Food is not a political subject. Food is a basic necessity.

Best for our health are USA food products under the watchful USA food regulations.

Countries like China will feed us anything and would not care much about regulations.

The UC Davis study is important for both our physical health and our economy.

VOTE NO.

Mike H wrote on Aug 7, 2008 1:00 PM:I see that the factory farmers are very active on this blog

Hi wrote on Aug 7, 2008 1:21 PM:People over Animals. You ... dirty apes.

Dan wrote on Aug 7, 2008 1:55 PM:I see the animal RIGHTS activists are very active on this blog. Do bad, we couldn't get some animal WELFARE people instead.

AUTOMATIC EGGS wrote on Aug 7, 2008 2:00 PM:We now have the technology to have an egg clone itself with the clones cloning again and again! There will be no need for egg-laying chickens once this is on board and up and running!

Banallfood wrote on Aug 7, 2008 2:57 PM:I will not vote for Prop 2 because it does not go far enough!!! I believe we should ban all forms of food production, fruits and vegatables included!!! I think Prop 2 should promote the fair treatment of fruits and vegatables. Aren't fruits & vegatables living things too? What about their inhumane treatment? Just because this FOOD group doesn't have limbs or eyes doesn't mean it is not equal to a chicken or a human for that matter. Think of how carrots and mushrooms grown in the ground... how tragic. So I hope the Prop. 2 folks introduce an initiative supporting a ban on all forms of food production next time. Make sure community and home gardens are covered in this ban. Today ban certain forms of egg production; tomorrow ban another form of food production. Just ban, ban, ban... Eat meat, don't eat meat' eat eggs, don't eggs, it's your choice. The fact that Prop 2 has made it to the ballot amazes me. A bunch of self important people who's believe they should impress their lifestyle choice upon others. Hmm... sounds a bit "Orwellian" or fascist to me. Like some sugested in these posts, why don't you grow your own eggs? Matter of fact, why don't the Prop 2 proponents come up with successful business model and create their own "free range" egg farms and compete with the' conventional' farms. Sounds like a lucrative opportunity to me. Again prime example of how the democratic process is turned into a joke by a minority of people who believe they have a right to dictate to others what they on the manner they should produce food.

Buy from local farmers markets wrote on Aug 7, 2008 4:19 PM:If more of us bought from local farmers, we would have better quality eggs and more farmers would begin producing them. Back when we bought from farmers who kept their hutches clean, we could eat raw cookie dough.

Same with produce and meat. Sometimes veggies cost less, but if not, it is worth paying a little more for better tasting, fresher, more nutritous food.

California has real economic woes. They should not take them out on chickens, or prison inmates. (An earlier post mentions the over crowding. The prison system is horrific.)

Jimbo wrote on Aug 7, 2008 7:03 PM:Hey Dan- How's everything going on your factory farm?

Yogi wrote on Aug 7, 2008 7:07 PM:I don't care if eggs are 10 dollars each, cause I don't eat them. Boycott eggs!

Wolfgang wrote on Aug 8, 2008 12:03 AM:To those who say someone is telling them how to live. Duh, it is called an election, the majority wins. If a minority of people are trying to dictate to others, then they will lose the election because they are a minority. I think this is taught in grammer school. Not some of the best brains on this blog.

notablogger wrote on Aug 13, 2008 4:21 PM:This prop will hurt our economy, not to mention forever damage an industry. I know people are only interested in how much they pay for things, such as the basics. I started to work in the industry recenly and I am learning a lot. But my background is business ( I owned one)so that is where my prism lies. I love animals as much as the next gal, but I don't think it's my place to tell the Humane society and others how to do thier job. Is it necessary that they must poke thier noses into a farmers business? Where I work is clean and respectable. I deal with many people who order eggs and guess what? They gripe about price and price alone. They don't ask how these eggs are produced. They don't care, and thier customers don't care either. Those of you who say you do are full of it, and yourself. What if we lost allo egg production in the US? Do you think Mexican eggs would be appealing?

Don wrote on Aug 18, 2008 6:09 PM:A few readers have commented about "Nanny state" this and "government is not the solution" that. How is this government intrusion into our lives? This is people in a democracy agreeing to *very* modest, basic protections for animal treatment.

I collected signatures for this bill from family and friends and, looking back, I suppose most of them typically vote Republican.


So although there are obviously people so attached to their ideology that they think protecting the right to "fully extend a limb" is the equivalent of creating a socialist welfare state, I'd say, luckily, most don't see the issue that way.

A legitimate argument others have raised, however, is that egg production will just shift away from California. True, but it will have less places to shift once everyone else gets on board. The EU already has laws like this. California is, as usual, at the front of the trend. Yes on 2!