Tuck wrote on Aug 14, 2008 1:08 PM:For the most part, these test scores are pathetic.

Magster wrote on Aug 14, 2008 3:23 PM:"The number of students who passed the tests in each district followed familiar trends, with traditionally high-performing school districts in wealthier communities doing better than districts in poorer areas." Duh! Ya think! I wonder why. These tests won't mean anything until things are more balanced, but that's not going to happen!

teacher wrote on Aug 14, 2008 4:14 PM:How many of the "pathetic" scores belong to second language learners or children with poor, uneducated parents?

Spouse of Teacher wrote on Aug 14, 2008 4:48 PM:Is anyone surprised at this news? I'm not. If you look at the lowest performing school districts, (Escondido, Vista, and Oceanside) they all have a disproportionate number of Latinos.

Larry Perondi, superintendent of the Oceanside Unified School District, hit the nail on the head when he says, "Schools in poorer areas often face extra challenges, such as a higher number of students learning to speak English and less parental involvement." The key to his statement is "less parental involvement." Latino parents are oftentimes less educated and don't stress academic achievement to their children. They expect the teachers to do all the work.

The problems in the Latino community are not going to get better any time soon. In fact, we have seen drop-out statistics to prove this point. A recent article in the NCT about the 'Encuentros Leadership Program' stated that less than half of Latino young men graduate from high school. This is abysmal and very disturbing. Sure, some graduate and even go on to college, but there is a very serious problem in the Latino community that keeps them mired in academic underachievement and the cycle of poverty. And, non-Latino students aren't getting the quality education they deserve. Teachers and administrators are frustrated and compelled to devote enormous resources to address the problem with limited success. These are resources that could be going towards the kids who come from non-Latino families, who devote time and stress academic success to their children. While ESL programs are another drain on resources, oftentimes Latino kids who speak English well enough still have no desire to excel at school. Why? The reasons are many, but Latino parents don't set the example for their kids to follow, and don't have the desire, education or skills to help them achieve academic success.

This is a very real socio-economic problem. As these students get older and are then faced with entering adulthood, they are ill-equipped, and have limited skills to be employed in occupations to be self-sufficient. We have a surplus of low-skilled labor and it only compels these young adults to live at home for indefinite periods of their life, eventually repeating the cycle of poverty and economic disparity. It's a viscous cycle of poverty and despair that doesn't seem to be a priority to Latinos.

teacher wrote on Aug 14, 2008 6:35 PM:Thank you, Spouse of Teacher! That doesn't mean I won't continue to work my tail off trying to reach these kids in my classroom. However, the old expression fits perfectly here: "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink." I often wonder what would happen if we pumped as much money into our "regular" kids as we do the EL kids. Funny how I can get adult aides in my EL classroom and pretty much anything I want, but it's a totally different story in my regular classes. I am always told that certain programs are "funded differently." I am so tired of it.
I speak and write Spanish pretty well, but I doubt I would score well on an exam in Mexico geared for Spanish speakers. It's common sense, people!

Bob wrote on Aug 14, 2008 6:42 PM:These tests are a joke. The scores would have been the same if kids took these tests 50 years ago. Kids are tested to death and they just shut down after awhile. My kid had a state or district test in at least one class everyday for four weeks. What a joke.

Mike wrote on Aug 14, 2008 6:44 PM:Why does this paper have a negative headline...scores slows to rise...but the Union Tribune...local schools beat state averages. I wonder how bias the NCT really is towards teachers???

Culture no language wrote on Aug 14, 2008 8:03 PM:I've known many English Language Learners over the years, and many children of poor uneducated parents. However, these children all thrived and many went on to college and university. What was the difference? Culture! But, we have been told for many years that it is wrong to try to enculturate immigrants and that we are to respect their culture and values as opposed to try and teach them our cultural values. You see, a primary cultural value of the American society is work hard and encourage your children to become educated so they will have a better life than you. I could name quite a few big named political candidates who have told us all about how hard their parents had it and all that their parents did to help them get where they are today. I can also name quite a few wealthy business men and women who can tell you very similar stories about their experience from poverty to riches. We have for most of the American history placed the "rags to riches" story as a primary goal that is actually possible because of the freedoms we are afforded in America. You may actually think that this is something that every parent would want for their child, but if you've ever studies world cultures you'd find that you are very wrong! Only in the past couple hundred years has this even been possible and in America it has been a primary part of our culture.
So, when you speak about the children who are doing so poorly in our schools these days you must realize it is the do-gooders who have pushed the political correctness and forbidden the enculturation of the children in the classrooms that is really at the root of the problem. These children should be given equal opportunity to thrive in America, but if they don't learn to embrace our cultural values they will continue to be fit for nothing more than "doing the jobs American won’t do!"

Too Much Testing wrote on Aug 14, 2008 8:12 PM:Bob, you hit the nail on the head! Schools are to the point where they test so much, teachers don't have time to adequately cover material to the point of mastery. If the students don't understand, too bad. Keep moving on. Students have learned that these tests really have no effect on them.

Frank wrote on Aug 14, 2008 8:21 PM:Hispanics don’t truly value education. They value hard work and earning money. There was article in the USA Today that supported this notion recently. Who are we to change their values? Shouldn’t we just accept that they don’t value education and love them for their hard work? This is what our liberal friends tell us. We should accept all people and not try to make them conform to American values. Right?

Agree with Mike wrote on Aug 14, 2008 9:44 PM:Why does NCT almost always make a negative out of something positive. Maybe they would have more subscriptions if they weren't always negative about almost everything.

To Mike and Agree with Mike wrote on Aug 15, 2008 5:45 AM:Why are Mike and you always so negative? Can't you ever say anything good or posative about the NCT?

Political Correctness wrote on Aug 15, 2008 5:51 AM:The lack of any common values, common language, or common beliefs is the death of a society. Political Correctness where immigrants are concerned is destroying America, and is exactly what the Social and Progressive Elites have desired for many years. How can you organize in chaos, especially when there are no commonalities?
It is time to take back out schools and teach AMERICAN Values starting in kindergarten and continuing through 12th grade! Otherwise you can say goodbye to the USA in two more generations!

Vista Watchdog wrote on Aug 15, 2008 5:57 AM:If the High School Exit Exam only requires students to be profficient in basic subjects, would VUSD's 48% 10th grade English score mean that VUSD is failing to graduate 52% of their students?

Immigrant Myself wrote on Aug 15, 2008 6:29 AM:I'm an immigrant myself (Germany). We have two children in the Oceanside school district. Having closely watched for eight years what has been going on, I've become more and more hostile. My kids are smart, have good study skills, and could be at a very high level, but instead they get great grades but aren't at the level they could be at because too much effort, time, and money has to be spent to make sure that at least 46% are at passing level. School is not difficult here! Listen, do your homework, you get an A. It must really be a cultural thing. I wish we had the financial means to move to a better school district. Disappointed, but still liking Oceanside as a city.

To Frank wrote on Aug 15, 2008 8:08 AM:LOL

Its a shame wrote on Aug 15, 2008 8:27 AM:While working the registration desk at Fallbrook HS I had a student who had been in the district for at least 4 years (could have been longer) and still couldn't speak english. Of course the school caters to those students with special programs which simply discourages them from learning to speak and understand english. Why the schools continue to promote to the next grade without a good grasp of the subject material is beyond me.

yeah wrote on Aug 15, 2008 10:18 AM:why do the schools not hold a student back anymore ? They move them forward with failing grades.... just how are these kids going to become productive working adults if they can't even pass school ?? No wonder we're not going to have our Social Security later- the younger workers will NOT be paying in enough !

Reardon wrote on Aug 15, 2008 11:49 AM:The most powerful political entity in this state is the teachers union! IF the teachers really wanted to do something about low-scoring Latino children, teachers through their union have all the clout in the world to change the system, but have you ever heard of a teachers union going out on strike for getting language proficiency required before mainstreaming students?

No, and you never will, because there has never been a teacher strike, and nationally there have been many teacher strikes, on any subject except more teacher pay and fewer teaching hours!

The reason we have so many tens of thousands of English Learners is that the State pays per seat – regardless of whether that seat is occupied by a citizen, or a rock! $30+ per day, per student – follow the money!

Until the teachers demand a change, American citizen students will suffer because the PTA will continue to go lockstep with the teachers, and the teachers will only worry about money.

California students rank no higher that 46th among states in reading and math, at the 4th and 8th grade, according to the federal National Report Card. In most cases, California students ranks 49th!

But our teachers rank NUMBER ONE IN TEACHER PAY, nationally. There is a cognitive disconnect between these numbers.

Boat wrote on Aug 15, 2008 11:52 AM:These statistics are not good. With Escondido High School at only 40% for 10th Grade English that means that for every 100 who tested 60 failed. I would be interested to know if the scores are statistically skewed by dropouts - before or after the tests are administered.

With such a high dropout rate Latinos are just making themselves into a permanent underclass. I went to junior high and high school with a girl from Mexico back in the midwest in the '60s. She taught herself English by reading the dictionary every morning before school. The last time I saw her was back in the mid-70's when I was home on leave. She was running for the city council. I don't remember if she got elected, I voted absentee for her, but I sure admired her for her accomplishments. Where did her drive come from? I don't know, but I noticed it even as a kid.

Benjamin Disraeli said that "There are lies, damn lies, and statisitics." But these numbers don't bode well. Collectively we had better find some answers.

Reardon wrote on Aug 15, 2008 12:15 PM:Albert Shanker, longtime president of the American Federation of
Teachers: "I'll start
representing kids when kids start paying union dues."

That sums up the problem!

The solution is up to the teachers -- they have the money, they have the vote, they have the clout!

What they lack is the will!

Gil wrote on Aug 15, 2008 12:39 PM:Funding is NOT the problem. CUSD collected $98 million for a new HS and they can't even spend the money. Teachers are not the problem either, it is the parents fault. School is an extension of the home. If a school is failing, the neighborhood is failing. This has nothing to do with teacher pay or unions, it has to do with parents that don’t care about their child’s education. It must start at home. Until these people’s parents value education, nothing will change.

Red Herring wrote on Aug 15, 2008 3:19 PM:is what blaming the parents is, because parents do not have hundreds of billions of dollars spent annually on building, teachers, teaching material, bussing, food and utilities.

If we cant hold that enormous infrastructure responsible for educating our children in the 182 days a year they own our kids, then let's abolish it and find another way!

We spend a whole lot of time and money on failure! Louisiana and Mississippi rank higher in academic standing - for a lot less money -- heck, everyone ranks higher with lower teacher salary.

Either pay teachers a salary commensurate with our educational quality (basically 48th), or get our quality up to our academic standing.

Either way works for me.

Red Herring wrote on Aug 15, 2008 3:55 PM:is what blaming the parents is, because parents do not have hundreds of billions of dollars spent annually on building, teachers, teaching material, bussing, food and utilities.

If we cant hold that enormous infrastructure responsible for educating our children in the 182 days a year they own our kids, then let's abolish it and find another way!

We spend a whole lot of time and money on failure! Louisiana and Mississippi rank higher in academic standing - for a lot less money -- heck, everyone ranks higher with lower teacher salary.

Either pay teachers a salary commensurate with our educational quality (basically 48th), or get our academic quality up to our teacher pay standing.

(Corrected Copy)

Reardon wrote on Aug 16, 2008 7:50 AM:We should all support efforts to get rid of the unions. No child left behind will guarantee every school fails and then we can force out the union. It states by 2014 every child will be at grade level. This law should be applied to other greedy union professions like police and fire. We have too many criminals and if the union cops don't do better cut their pay. Look at all the fires. PUT WATER ON THEM, DUH!!! These lazy firefighters should also be punished with lower wages. Don't say these jobs are difficult or have other factors influencing them. Get rid of the unions and improve education, eliminate crime, and fires.

Vista Teacher To Reardon wrote on Aug 16, 2008 9:39 AM:Would you support a Union Member who is trying to turn the union around and attempting to improve a school district by running for school board? Or, would you immediately assume that a candidate who is a CTA member, and who seeks money from the very union that has forced them to pay dues, is just another one of those failures in the making? You must realize that the power of the union in CA is so strong that you will never beat them in a frontal attack. But, infiltrate them and change them from the inside (bottom up - grassroots style), and you will eventually have CA back to #1 in the nation and world for K-12 education. We have plenty of teachers who are caring conservatives, and many more caring conservatives who would make good teachers. But, constant attacks against teachers on the whole contributes to the power of the union by the union using these attacks to rally the rank and file against the "establishment." So, if we are going to change the landscape of our schools we will have to do it in the same way the unions took control in the first place: little by little over many years. Are you IN?
VT

To Gil wrote on Aug 16, 2008 9:53 AM:To a certain extent you are correct about parents. That is why homeschooling has become such a great alternative to public schools: these parents care enough to sacrifice for their children.
But, the interesting thing here is that a homeschooler parent or private school parent who runs for school board for a local school district is automatically assumed to be "anti-public school." Here you have a parent that cares enough about their own child to sacrifice their time to educate them, and when they willing to sacrifice even more to help with the public school they are attacked and considered as unqualified to help the public schools improve. So, in the end it's more than the parents, it is the Union Leadership and School Leadership (often so closely tied that it is hard to tell them apart) that needs to be changed. Most teachers really want to teach, but their hands are tied by the Leadership that runs the school, micromanaging their every move in the classroom. So, before you go attacking the parents in the area you better take a good close look at how your excusing the Union's influence only aids them while doing nothing to improve the quality of education in the public schools.

Vista Watchdog wrote on Aug 16, 2008 4:18 PM:I was doing a bit of research and found that many schools in So. Riverside County did much better than around here. I also foudn that many of those very same schools are on year-round schedules. VUSD did away with MTYR and test scores never improved.