ESCONDIDO: ACLU pressure prompts city retreat on fee hike
Mobile-home residents get reprieve while city studies policy
By DAVID GARRICK - Staff Writer | ∞
ESCONDIDO ---- Facing pressure from the American Civil Liberties Union, Escondido has decided to allow a group of mobile-home residents to continue using city meeting rooms without charge while the city studies whether the fee schedule is unconstitutional.
City Attorney Jeff Epp said Wednesday that the city was not ready to concede that the city's policy of charging political groups more than other community groups violates First Amendment free speech rights, as the civil liberties organization asserted last month.
But Epp said city officials were willing to give the mobile-home residents a reprieve while they contemplate the issue.
The controversy began in early July when city officials decided to begin charging fees to the mobile-home residents, who had been meeting at the city's East Valley Community Center once a month for many years.
The decision came three weeks after the residents had launched a campaign to subject Escondido City Council members to term limits, so the residents accused the city of retaliation. But city officials said the term-limits campaign and the tone of the group's recent newsletters had distinguished it as a political organization.
Then David Blair-Loy, legal director for the local affiliate of the civil liberties organization, read about the controversy in the North County Times and questioned whether the city's policy was constitutional.
Blair-Loy then sent Epp a five-page letter detailing what he described as the meeting room policy's "viewpoint discrimination" and its vague definition of political and religious groups.
On Wednesday, Blair-Loy praised Epp's decision to grant a reprieve.
"My concern is that the city comply with the First Amendment, and for the moment they are not violating the First Amendment because they have not imposed the fee increase," said Blair-Loy.
Donna Martin, president of the mobile-home residents, said she had mixed feelings about the reprieve.
"It's good news for now, but I don't know how much notice they will give us if they decide to begin charging," said Martin. "We have to do our newsletter a couple weeks before each meeting, so I am worried we will announce a meeting and then have to cancel."
Martin said her members were also concerned that city officials treated them differently during their last monthly meeting July 24. She said they were required to sign a form promising to pay for any damage to the room, and city employees carefully inspected the room after the meeting.
"We've been meeting there for more than 10 years," said Martin. "We are not a militant group."
Robin Bettin, the city's assistant director of community services, said Escondido officials have become more careful this summer because of recent damage to some meeting rooms. But she said a sign-in sheet was the only new form the mobile-home residents were asked to complete.
Epp and Bettin said it would take about six weeks for the city to analyze its policy and determine how to handle political groups.
The city's policy divides groups into tiers based on a variety of factors, including whether their members live in Escondido and whether the group is a business.
Scouts, Little League baseball and other youth sports pay up to $25 per hour for rooms, while service clubs and homeowners associations pay up to $30. Groups from outside the city, political organizations and religious groups pay as much as $55.
Because the mobile-home residents meet for three hours each month, the city's reclassification of their group would increase their fee from $60 to $120.
But the group is actually facing an even larger increase because city officials have not been charging them $60. They had been "grandfathered" in at no fees because they have been around for so long, Bettin said.
Martin has vowed not to use city facilities if her group is ever charged a fee.
Contact staff writer David Garrick at (760) 740-5468 or dgarrick@nctimes.com.
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Floyd wrote on Aug 21, 2008 8:06 PM:It's time to put the "fees are really taxes" initiative back on the ballot.
Inland wrote on Aug 21, 2008 8:10 PM:Again, why do we make a stance....then back down? Lets get our "act" together, SAVE your time & energy!
Hypocritical wrote on Aug 21, 2008 8:18 PM:This group amazes me. If their sole argument is based on the basic concept of having every group treated fairly, it is totally unfair that they do not have to pay any kind of fee simply because they have been around longer than others and have been grandfathered in to using the facilities for free. The city should say they can pay the same fee as the boy scouts, which would mean they are not being penalized as a political organization. At the same time, however, they need to also actually pay to use the facility like everyone else.
This mobilehome group wrote on Aug 21, 2008 9:05 PM:has been a political action commitee for a long time. EMPAC has been endorsing candidates and creating and supporting ballot initiatives for decades. Why do they feel they need special privledges? Everyone else has to pay. Quit ya whining.
TO THE THREE STOGES wrote on Aug 21, 2008 10:05 PM:stop picking on people who don't agree with yoou!!!
Escondido wrote on Aug 22, 2008 12:30 AM:I agree that the group should pay a fee but a reasonable one and I do feel that they were targeted by the city council because of the term limits issue they brought up and I think its a good one...The city should get its act together why didn't they look this up in the first place have they not heard of the ACLU or did they think there bulling would intimidate them thanks for wasting tax payers dollars
Same old song and dance wrote on Aug 22, 2008 7:26 AM:When will the city learn to do the homework before it becomes an embarrassment to our town? I don't understand what their problem is. Sooner or later if you keep beating your head against the wall it's gotta hurt!
Bogarts wrote on Aug 22, 2008 7:46 AM:These folks aren't happy with just having their rents controlled and partially subsidized, now they see the need to use city facilities without paying a dime. What exactly do you trailer types do with your income and retirement dollars since all the rest of us citizens are the ones that support you?
Dirty Sanchez wrote on Aug 22, 2008 7:49 AM:These mobilehome park owners are a pain in the neck and contribute nothing to the community. They think that they are entitled to everything without paying for it. I hope a big tornado comes through town and flattens the mobilehome parks so we can build some condos over the top of them. That will fix their little red wagons.
Citizens of Chamber wrote on Aug 22, 2008 7:58 AM:Can't the mobile home groups meet in their own communities? Don't they have a place to meet within their parks? Why do they need to use the city facilities for free? We at the Citizens of Chamber are opposed to the mobilehome parks.
To Escondido wrote on Aug 22, 2008 8:48 AM:The city council had nothing to do with this. They never addressed this as it was handled administratively by the city attorney and community services office. Stop dragging the council into it. This is an old issue.
And as for the term limits initiative, who cares? Even if it passes, the current members can run another 8 years. How ineffective is that? And a waste of time and taxpayer money.
free speech is a good thing wrote on Aug 22, 2008 8:51 AM:The issue isn't this particular group. It's that the city was charging "political" groups more than, say, book clubs, for using the same space in the same way. There's nothing about being a political group that says you'll cost the city more to clean the room up when the meeting is over. This is all about free speech and having the government not impose fees or fines based on what is being said in the public meeting room. As usual, the ACLU is taking a principled stand in supporting free speech rights, which eventually will serve to protect the rest of us when WE have something to say.
I agree wrote on Aug 22, 2008 9:06 AM:I hate the ACLU but the city is wrong. As a reminder Mr. Epp, taxpayer money built these meeting rooms as well as the office you sit in. Making taxpayers pay a fee to use their properity would be like you paying the taxpayer rent for your office. You have to cut costs or raise revenues. How about looking at your, along with all city workers, salaries and benefits.
Ah The Irony wrote on Aug 22, 2008 9:15 AM:The ACLU claims it's opposed to content discrimination, but if we were giving free rent to the Boy Scouts instead of to a bunch of left-wing, corporate hating, anti-property rights fanatics, they'd be all over us.
Maybe the ACLU isn't practicing content discrimination, it's just that in their eyes some content is more equal than others.
Escondeeter wrote on Aug 22, 2008 9:24 AM:Let's try to be clear on something: the Constitution guarantees you freedom of speech, it doesn't guarantee you a free place to speak. The proposal here was just to make EMPAC pay the same price every other similar group was paying.
To be vindictive wrote on Aug 22, 2008 9:55 AM:Take a look at the timing of the fee increase.
EMPAC speaks out against Abed and proposes term limits - the city notifies them they will start charging fees.
If this was a genuine attempt to level the playing field or "recoup costs" then their timing sucks.
Ah the irony wrote on Aug 22, 2008 10:07 AM:The ACLU has defended the Nazis, Rush Limbaugh and many other wacky right wingers, your selective choice of issues is dishonest
Fair Play wrote on Aug 22, 2008 10:07 AM:Mobil home residents should pay to rent this meeting room, just as other groups do. I am personally tired of their constant whining. They are approaching a slippery slope. I use to support their causes, but if given the chance, I will vote against any further give aways to these groups. You have lost my support and the support of many others over this.
A fare is fair as long as it is wrote on Aug 22, 2008 10:28 AM:EMPAC does not oppose paying their (fare) shair as long as things are fair. EMPAC represents all Escondido parks and community issues.
To Ah the Irony wrote on Aug 22, 2008 10:31 AM:Thanks for citing the three exceptions to the ACLU's six decade long history of supporting left wing extremists. Now go count the percentage of cases they've filed on each side of the political spectrum, then come tell me who's really being dishonest.
Lets protest wrote on Aug 22, 2008 10:32 AM:at the mobile home park! ACLU will make sure the citizens have the right to protest against the mobile home park without paying a fee.
Been there done that.... wrote on Aug 22, 2008 10:46 AM:The City Council doens't have to "say" anything.... they just get the word to the City Attorney/City Manager about what they want done.
Things like sticking it to the mobilehome owners is not something they would want to say in an open meeting!
Do Nothings wrote on Aug 22, 2008 11:01 AM:I recently retired and decided to rent a mobile home after 13 years of Condo living and hearing my neighbors fight every night but, its been a hugh eye opener for me!
From what I can observe (6 months now) most of these people do nothing all day long, most of the day they watch TV or go to the grocery store on the first of the month, or they complain about the management or there neighbors. They don't take care of what lawns they have, never plant a flower from what I've observed in this park anyway.
Yes, most parks have hugh rooms for entertainment or meetings so, it actually surprises me they chose a room at the cities facility in the first place. They could easily reserve a room whereever these people live and trade off. I don't know anything about this group but, it appears they have nothing to do but sit and judge the city. If I were the city I would definitely charge them,grandfather time or not, I think the city has a good case against them if anything these 'seniors' are the ones' causing problems. Hey they have nothing else to do all day but bitch! This gives them purpose in life? Sad...What a poor representation of seniors! Go take a class at Palomar, or volunteer your time at the Salvation Army, feed the poor, tutor children...instead you sit in the cities 'free' room taking away from other groups, and have the gall to hire the ACLU! Get a life!
To A fare is fair... wrote on Aug 22, 2008 12:07 PM:If EMPAC really desired to pay the same rate as everyone else, it would have voluntarily contributed the money to the city. The city maintains an account for just such contributions. Their failure to do so makes clear that what this case is really about is a bunch of congenital complainers calling in the ACLU because their free ride at the taxpayers expense was threatened.
Nudist of Escondido wrote on Aug 22, 2008 1:59 PM:wants to use the facilities free of charge also! Come and visit us!
Strippers of Escondido wrote on Aug 22, 2008 2:26 PM:We want to use it for free too!
Any attorneys out there wrote on Aug 22, 2008 2:46 PM:want to represent me pro bono? I think it is time the CITIZENS of Escondido sue the ACLU and get them the hell out of our business, our lives and our city.
Escondido wrote on Aug 22, 2008 3:26 PM:Whats the next big brain idea from the city? How about the air fee the city can charge money for breathing and the a disposal fee for breathing out carbon dioxide...the money the city will bring in will cure everything! Loosen up the thinking cap people its cutting off the blood flow to your brains!
Mr.PotatoHead wrote on Aug 22, 2008 5:55 PM:EMPAC is not the same organization it was 15 years ago. It's run by different people. MANY mobilehome owners have NOTHING to do with that organization now. It helps nobody. Why isnt EMPAC at every rent hearing? Why are homeowners locked out of their clubhouses? Why cant the current President have their monthly meeting at her clubhouse? The same 20 people attend EMPAC meetings monthly. They really dont need a community room ,it's small anyways.
Term limits ,what a joke that is. EMPAC is not going to use their petition power (if they collect the needed signatures) until AFTER the Nov 2008 election. That means YOU the TAXPAYERS will foot the bill for a SPECIAL ELECTION. EMPAC no longer represents all mobilehome owners. Most of us want nothing to do with this organization and prefer to contact the past president when we need action.
Please dont judge all mobilehome owners by this small group.
januaryM wrote on Aug 22, 2008 6:10 PM:Mr inEPPness scores another bomb!
Do you seriously think no one asked him his legal opinion on this before doing it? Every council meeting shown on tv you see them asking Epp for the yes or no,legally nod.
Violate the first amendment! Shame on you inEPPness. Its not nice to GAG the voters.
Epp is not elected,he is appointed.You think Epp had nothing to do with the condition of this city?He has been here too long folks.Making a very tidy sum.On YOUR dime taxpayers.So we can throw him out when we throw out Gallo & A Bed.
VOTE Nov.2008 to clean house at city hall...
The ACLU .... wrote on Aug 22, 2008 8:03 PM:the ACLU takes more "left wing" cases because the RIGHT WING government impinges on the civil liberties of "left wing" groups. You haters of the ACLU do so because, despite your deluded beliefs to the contrary, are RIGHT WING reactionaries who hate anyone whose opinion is different than what you learned in civics class back in Nebraska in 1953.
Wheres the lawyer wrote on Aug 22, 2008 8:56 PM:Blame Epp for this one, not the Council. Just like the immigration ordinance, this move lacked plain common sense, and the Council was never informed of the pros and cons of implementing the decision. (Try to find the item on a Council agenda.) The bigger question is why does Epp keep trying to find ways to please the Council with decisions that are quickly reversed as soon as David Blair-Loy picks up the phone? Lame.
lioneltrains wrote on Aug 23, 2008 2:01 AM:It should be more than obvious by now that Escondido needs a competent city attorney. You know, one that's more commensurate with the salary he receives.
lioneltrains wrote on Aug 23, 2008 2:13 AM:It should be more than obvious by now that Escondido needs a competent city attorney.
You know, one whose knowledge, judgment, and experience is more commensurate with his exorbitant salary?
NEW COUNCIL WANTED wrote on Aug 23, 2008 3:48 AM:actually, the city attorney and experts had every single time warned Abed,Gallo and Waldron; every time they decided to do their will. They don't care about our tax dollars, only on their personal agendas.
i'ts happening again with the parking ban, are you going to let them wasting our tax dollars? not me; I'm voting for Diaz.
Dennis wrote on Aug 23, 2008 9:39 PM:Hey city HALL!! dont back down to trailer people and their A.C.L.U. Dont start presendents for them to come into town. They shot at you, sick ummm!
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