MILITARY: Marines refuse to testify in detainee killings
Two sergeants facing murder charges also hit with contempt of court finding
By MARK WALKER - Staff Writer | ∞
RIVERSIDE ---- Two Marines who refused to testify Friday against a comrade facing a civilian court trial for the 2004 slayings of four detainees in Iraq are guilty of criminal contempt of court, a federal judge ruled.
U.S. District Judge Stephen Larson said he would schedule a hearing within 30 days to determine what punishment to levy against Marine Sgts. Ryan Weemer and Jermaine Nelson for withholding testimony against their fire team leader in Iraq, former Marine Sgt. Jose Luis Nazario Jr.
Assistant U.S. Attorney Jerry Behnke was visibly angered at their refusal to testify, and called the move "a charade being perpetrated on this court."
The judge said that while there wasn't sufficient reason for them not to testify, "Placing either of these two men in jail would have no effect. There is probably not a whole lot in this world that these men fear."
It's the latest development in the first-of-its-kind federal trial in which a civilian jury will decide whether the alleged actions of a former service member in combat violated the rules of engagement.
The military has granted limited immunity to Nelson and Weemer, meaning that anything they say cannot be used against them. Their attorneys argued the promise wasn't good enough.
Nazario is being tried for manslaughter and for ordering members of his squad to take part in the slaying of captives during a battle for the city of Fallujah in November 2004.
When called to the stand Friday morning outside the presence of Nazario's jury, Weemer and Nelson each cited a Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination.
Nelson and Weemer face trial in military court later this year on murder and dereliction of duty charges for their alleged roles in the killings.
Nazario sat stoically at the defense table as attorneys for his two comrades made impassioned pleas to the judge.
"Look at the Purple Heart on his chest," attorney Christopher Johnson said of Weemer, "and think of what it must take this Marine to refuse a lawful command. To him, this is a nightmare."
Attorneys for the two men say the immunity the Marine Corps granted them has a loophole and thus isn't good enough to guarantee that their words won't be used against them when they head to court-martial at Camp Pendleton.
The problem, the attorneys said, is that the letter granting immunity was not signed by Lt. Gen. Samuel Helland, who wields power over the courts-martial for the two men. Instead, the letter was signed by an attorney on Helland's staff.
Behnke called Weemer and Nelson to the stand and confronted them about the signature. Both said they would still decline to testify, even if Helland signed the immunity grant.
Nelson and Weemer were jailed for nearly three weeks earlier this year when another judge found them in civil contempt for refusing to answer a federal grand jury's questions as it evaluated the case against Nazario.
In court Friday, Behnke revealed that Nelson had earlier rejected a plea deal from the Marine Corps: plead guilty to dereliction of duty in exchange for the service dropping the murder charge. The deal would also have allowed Nelson to stay in the service.
His attorney, Joseph Low, later said his client rejected the offer because he was not going to testify against his fellow Marines.
Nazario was out of the Marine Corps when the allegations came to light and was not eligible to be called back into the service to face trial in military court.
That left the U.S. attorneys office as the only entity that could prosecute the case. Nazario's case is the first to reach court under a law adopted by Congress in 2000 that allows for prosecution of former service members accused of committing crimes on a foreign battlefield.
His attorneys argue the nine women and three men selected to hear the case that continues on Tuesday are not in a position to "second guess" a decision made in the heat of battle.
The alleged killings took place on the first day of a bloody battle that has earned a spot in Marine Corps lore. The killings came during a massive Marines offensive on the city in the Anbar province after the squad found the four men hiding in a house with a cache of weapons.
The incident came to light after Weemer revealed it during a lie detector test taken as part of a job interview for a position with the Secret Service.
Nazario faces a minimum of 10 years in prison if convicted of all charges.
Nelson and Weemer each face the possibility of life in prison if a military jury convicts them.
Marine Maj. Timothy Jent, who commanded the 3rd Battalion, 1st Marine Regiment company that the three accused men were part of testified Friday afternoon that each member of the unit went through at least three training sessions in handling detainees.
Jent said the Marine Corps had designated a detainee holding facility where captured insurgents were to be taken.
Among those in the courtroom was Nazario's mother, Sandra Montianez.
"I gave my son to this country at age 17," Montianez said. "This is how the country repays me."
Staff writer Teri Figueroa contributed to this report. Contact staff writer Mark Walker at (760) 740-3529 or mlwalker@nctimes.com.
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Bill wrote on Aug 22, 2008 11:32 AM:I know what this former Marine would tell this judge and prosecutor.
I would tell them all to stuff it and do some time for contempt.
Semper Fidelis!
Nick wrote on Aug 22, 2008 11:58 AM:Good for these 2 Marines! It's about time they start standing up to these asenine prosecutions.
This is war and all these trials are getting out of hand. Now a civilian court is going to try these soldiers?
I agree with "Bill", tell them to stuff it!
Semper Fi wrote on Aug 22, 2008 12:53 PM:Civilian courts are poorly equipped to deal with battlefield justice. He deserves a jury of his peers (Marines), not average citizens off the street with no combat experience. The "cops n' robbers" law these courts deal with is an entire world away froma combat zone.
Ugh wrote on Aug 22, 2008 1:04 PM:Why is this a surprise when Karl Rove can refuse to obey a supoena? If my president doesn't have to follow the law, why should I?
DESERT BUG wrote on Aug 22, 2008 1:52 PM:The 6th Amendment says, "...the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury..." I think Sgt Nazario's attorney should ask that the panel of prospective jurors ALL BE COMBAT EXPERIENCED MARINES so that the defendant can be judged by a jury that KNOWS FROM EXPERIENCE what it's like to be in combat against arab terrorists. Only then would the jury be IMPARTIAL.
Huh Ugh wrote on Aug 22, 2008 2:00 PM:What a moronic comparison "ugh." Go back & bury your head in the sand and return to your drum circle, sit-in, or PETA rally. I'm sure these Marines, serving their country in a putrid, horrible situation, were evaluating Karl Rove and his legal issues. Enjoy your freedoms while these men protect it for you.
Here you go... wrote on Aug 22, 2008 4:58 PM:Nazario ins ENTITLED TO A JURY OF HIS "PEERS." While the citizens of Riverside may be fine citizens...when it was time to "voir dire" the jury, here are some questions that should have been asked...if they answered "NO" to ANY of them...they should not be on this jury. 1. Have you ever served in combat? 2. Have you ever been shot at? 3. Have you ever been IED'd? Have you ever had RPG's hitting your house/car or mortars going off within 10 meters of your house? 4. Have you ever had someone arrested for trying to kill you, and see them walking down the street 2 days later ready to kill you again? That would be a good start, but I could go on.
Daniel wrote on Aug 22, 2008 6:52 PM:Farce.
Just another.... wrote on Aug 22, 2008 7:31 PM:example of our Federal Prosecutors running amok, they should be trying and convicting those who are openly breaking our Federal laws here in the U.S., not one of them would have had the balls to plave themselves in a hostile combat environment like Fallujah was, yet the want to second guess these Marines, like Ramos and Compeon, they will try to make examples of them. Stay Strong Marines, and guard each others backs, because those who have no-right to try and judge you are attempting to place a rope around your necks.....
Of Course They Did wrote on Aug 23, 2008 2:44 AM:Stand up for their brother.
They, WE as Americans, what them to be taught act as a unit. In the federal court I'm suprized they weren't called GANG memebers.
Ugh wrote on Aug 23, 2008 4:54 AM:Seems I struck a nerve. The truth hurts doesn't it? Why should we expect anyone to live by the law when our leaders don't?
Retired Master Sergeant wrote on Aug 23, 2008 6:42 AM:MARINES!!! This is ridiculous! Three of our own are on trial here--I realize that the two who refuse to testify are not on trial, but if you think about it, big brother is coming after them, too. They are being prosecuted, tried, and judged by people who have never been to where they've been, never experienced what they've experienced, and have no idea the thoughts, actions, and decisions that must be made in a spit second while in combat. Several of us Retired Marines do. To all Marines, let us report to the court house where the trial is being held and show our support for these Leathernecks. Wear your Marine memorabilia and we can march outside.
-Top Sends....
Hmmm... wrote on Aug 23, 2008 7:35 AM:Just a thought...
"That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, IT IS THEIR RIGHT , IT IS THEIR DUTY, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."
Not a bad idea eh Marines....
Hmmm... wrote on Aug 23, 2008 7:42 AM:We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.
Dave A wrote on Aug 23, 2008 7:45 AM:Many aspects of our legal system have become politicized to the point where the system has literally run aground. We're giving terrorists Constitutional protections & subjecting our military members to bogus charges & trials to pacify the anti-military crowd. My hat is off to the marines who refuse to participate in this legal charade. Thank you gentlemen.
good for them wrote on Aug 23, 2008 7:53 AM:i wouldn't either.... semper fi
Another fine mess you got me into.. wrote on Aug 23, 2008 8:09 AM:I know it sounds way out in left field - but you can trace the line all the way to the top and the beginning of all of this. BUSH ... BUSH ... BUSH... Forget all the smoke and mirrors - if you voted Bush into office and if you vote another like him - you will get the same... Think of all the things that happened since the Florida chad thing, WMD lies, ruined economy, worthless houses, etc. etc. etc and ask yourself - WHY ? WHY ? WHY ? BUSH or another like him???
Hmmm... wrote on Aug 23, 2008 8:20 AM:Apparently this week in New York 1,00 Iraqis were allowed to emigrate to the USA.
I really wonder how many blood seeking terrorists we just let into our country this week?
Good work on dumping the worlds GARBAGE back into our homeland... by the way these were all sponsored by DEMOCRATIC REPS who insisted on their coming into the USA...and by the way the same ones pushing to prosecute Marines for doing their jobs.
And they're about to elect one president...
Lee wrote on Aug 23, 2008 8:27 AM:These two think they are above the law.
They should be held in jail, in contempt.
But, they've already seen a good deal of lawlessness by the Marines and probably figure they will get away with lawlessness, themselves.
What an example the Marines have set these last 8 years.
joesixpack wrote on Aug 23, 2008 8:47 AM:It’s hard to find words which adequately describe the contempt I feel for this legal system and these court officers in charge of persecuting Marine Sgt. Jose Luis Nazario Jr. Judge Stephen Larson and U.S. Attorney Jerry Behnke clearly, from their public remarks, are not interested in the persuit of truth and justice but only in gaining a conviction at any cost including the incarceration of these young marines until they tell prosecutors what they want to hear. This is the same tactic used against the Haditha Marines and the Pendleton 8 by marine prosecutors to compel testimony. Some of those Marines spent a year or more in the brig being held without charges because prosecutors were on a “fishing expedition”. Same thing here. Prosecutor Behnke is cut from the same cloth as US Attorney Johnny Sutton, the guy who “railroaded” border patrolmen Ramos and Compeon into 11 year prison sentences. The federal courts have long been used by prosecutors as “kangaroo courts” for the destruction of political enemys. I personally look forward to the day when our criminal justice system is restored to its primary mission of administering justice. Meantime does anyone know if there is a Legal Defense Fund set up yet for these Marines?
JK wrote on Aug 23, 2008 8:55 AM:It is my firm belief that one cannot sit in judgment of a fellow human being unless they have walked a mile in their shoes, so to speak. When knowledge comes solely from books, U.S. District Judge, one should not judge. Semper Fi Granny
I agree with Ugh wrote on Aug 23, 2008 9:03 AM:With the example set by our Republican Leadership for the last eight years, it is no wonder we don't take the law seriously. They certainly don't. Why should the Marines? Why should anyone?
Ugh is right wrote on Aug 23, 2008 9:41 AM:What kind of example have these "Republican" leaders set! Didn't one of them have money in a freezer? I think one was involved in a Whitewater scandal, one even committed adultry in the OVAL OFFICE for goodness sakes! Another had sex with a reporter while his wife was dying of cancer! Scum, the whole lot!
Former Marine wrote on Aug 23, 2008 9:49 AM:I would rather be tried by 12 then carried by six.
Don't backdown Marines!!
Semper Fi
joesixpack wrote on Aug 23, 2008 9:56 AM:May God grant peace and comfort to Sgt Nazario's mother, Sandra Montianez and all the other moms and dads whose Marine sons are being “persecuted” by these demonic forces that have entrenched themselves within our Federal criminal justice system for the express purpose of “undermining” the combat effectiveness of our armed forces.
joesixpack wrote on Aug 23, 2008 10:02 AM:To Ugh is right...I believe all the outrages and "breaches" of trust you cite were committed by "leftist/marxist" office holders mislabeled as democrats.
DefendOurMarines wrote on Aug 23, 2008 10:15 AM:joesixpack, All
Google above for coverage of Sgt. Nazario and others, there's also info on defense funds.
RedRover wrote on Aug 23, 2008 10:41 AM:TO JOESIXPACK
Yes, there are individual defense funds for each of the three Marines. Posting guidelines here say "no contact addresses" so I hope it's okay to just say...
Google "Weemer defense fund", "Nazario defense fund", and "Sgt nelson defense fund".
Thanks for caring.
Bo wrote on Aug 23, 2008 11:19 AM:Prosecute Bush, Cheney, Rice, and Rumsfield! Stop the witch hunts against our Marines!!
To Lee wrote on Aug 23, 2008 11:24 AM:George Bush is he one who thinks he is above the law. He illegally sent the Marines in to Iraq, and now he sitting on his ass while they are prosecuted for following his orders to kill. GEORGE BUSH IS THE ONLY AMERICAN MURDERER IN THIS WAR!
Roberto wrote on Aug 23, 2008 11:39 AM:True American heroes in every sense of the word...
No justice for Veterans wrote on Aug 23, 2008 12:11 PM:Stand strong Marines and don't let the knownothings get you down. Combat and civilian situations are as different as night and day. No civilian has the knowledge or duty to judge a veteran's alleged actions committed during war. This should be thrown out of court A.S.A.P.. What's next? Prosecuting WW II Veteran's for "crimes committed against Germany"?
To Ugh wrote on Aug 23, 2008 12:23 PM:DO NOT AND I REPEAT DO NOT put my Marines in the same category as Karl Rove. They are standing by their own as they should. I cannot even imagine what they went through in Iraq so how does anyone think 12 civilian jurors could possibly know. It is deplorable that they are even on trial.
Stand Fast Marines.
Marine Mom and Grandma
Stuffit wrote on Aug 23, 2008 1:02 PM:Good for these guys. Finally people are standing up to these stupid judges and court proceedings that shouldn't even exist. It was war and these guys are alive and enemies of theirs are not. That is the way it works. Besides, the dead can't harm any more americans, soldiers or not. I am glad for that.
Bill wrote on Aug 23, 2008 2:01 PM:Ugh
The subpoenas?
This is a seperation of powers issue and its backed by 230 years of precedent.
Your comments show you have no idea what the consequences of attacking the executive branch like that would bring. Im not ready for that slippery slope just so "my side" can score a political victory. Theres no cover up. The system is designed to protect a President and his advisors from this type of stuff and subpoenas of that type are an assault on the executive branch. That is why nobody from the court sanctioned Rove. There wasnt sufficient probable cause to justify the subpoena. The subpoena isnt a weapon to be used for political gains and the courts stayed out of the way. The President, by design of the framers, is insulated from legal consequences of the courts. They intended to make it a political process that involved the American people and drafted the clause that authorizes impeachment as a remedy.
But in doing so, they subjected the congress to consequences for their vote.
The people have the ultimate say that way.
Ask Bill Clinton.
Thats why he wasnt removed from office.
Yet, these Marines in this article have been denied rights just like you lefties whine about at Gitmo.
Yet, silence from the left.
That scumbag John Murtha is responsible for this and Semper Fi said it best when he said the courts werent equipped to handle battlefield justice.
Yet, nobody on the left is concernend about this injustice.
I would do the time and not say a word.
I am so proud of these kids.
Semper Fi!
Bill wrote on Aug 23, 2008 2:15 PM:Isnt it against the law to lie to a federal judge while under oath in a civil case?
You know?
Assaulting a private citizens right to due process?
Yes, I do believe it is a crime and it shows contempt for the law. All the lawlessness youre whining about started with Clinton and not Bush.
Ooops!
Bush LEGALLY sent our troops to war as Congress authorized it every step of the way. The problem was poor intelligence created by the Gorelick memo in 1996. How can anyone say that intelligence problems didnt exist before Bush when Clinton bombed an asperin factory?
Or is Bill Clinton a murderer?
Bush was a victim of Clintons policies that effected intl reports. He hadnt had enough time to correct it after 8 years of problems that allowed AQ to plan 9/11 right under Clintons nose.
The Gorelick memo isnt Bushs fault.
A Jury of Peers wrote on Aug 23, 2008 2:24 PM:You people don't make a very good example of an impartial jury of peers.
But what if wrote on Aug 23, 2008 6:17 PM:What if these Marines turn out to be Obama supporters? Then the same folks praising them on this space will do a 180 on their beloved semper fi and start calling them phony soldiers, liars, traitors and all the rest. The Marines who refuse to testify might be praised for taking this stand, and then they should serve time. Even if you approve of them breaking the law, they still are breaking the law.
AWcryinoutloud wrote on Aug 23, 2008 9:25 PM:I had the honor of meeting a Marine who fought with Chesty Puller at Chosin. He wonders if they'll come after Marines from that era. Would anyone be surprised?
Poor Ungh wrote on Aug 23, 2008 10:30 PM:Did someone strike a cord with you? It seems that you got VERY defensive when everyone brought-up the OH-SO-MANY mistakes by liberals. Shame. Too bad, must be difficult to defend a view that is so pathetic. Poor Ungh.
Ugh got wasted wrote on Aug 23, 2008 10:37 PM:I don't usually read this crud, but sucks to be a democrat! Did that clown (Ugh) get PLOWED or what! Sad and pathetic. I'm sure our founding fathers would be laughing if they read any of his sad attempts at writing. Sorry bro, but you are WAY off.
Drum Circle wrote on Aug 23, 2008 10:45 PM:that was funny, poor "Ugh" for getting BAGGED ON. Sad, I'll lend you a drum dude.
No worries wrote on Aug 23, 2008 10:47 PM:The Marines will come out clean. Not a worry in the world Joe Biden, John McCain and others have their backs. I would take one Marine over 100 hippies any day.
John wrote on Aug 24, 2008 6:12 AM:As a combat veteran that was in the Falluja campaign one can not understand the complete madness that was around us. This is criminal that it is even in the civilian courts! Hell, the US government is paying 25 million a month to former insurgents to not attack us! Why not try those guys in our courts??? Leave the Marines alone, they are better Americans for serving their country while the rest of America is at the mall!
keep em shut wrote on Aug 24, 2008 10:00 AM:I don't blame the Marines for keeping their mouths shut. Nobody likes a rat--besides, it's bad for morale.
Nobody Likes A Rat wrote on Aug 24, 2008 10:34 AM:"I don't blame the Marines for keeping their mouths shut. Nobody likes a rat--besides, it's bad for morale."
Just like a gang-banger. Nice.
Marine-KB wrote on Aug 24, 2008 10:43 AM:I think there shouldn't even be a trial!
Marines have like the hardest job in the world. It's easy to make a mistake like that. Besides if George Bush ( ALL HIS FAULT!!!) never sent over sooo many troops... We probably wouldn't be in this mess. So George Bush is to blame, not these marines. Now go get 'em Marines!!!!!!!!!!!!
Chris wrote on Aug 24, 2008 11:47 AM:You people that make all these excusses for these Marines make me sick. You have shown how Americans don't care about what our military does to other peoples. We look at people in other countries as less than human. The people that have been tried so far did not kill innocent people in the heat of battle but you keep talking about being in the Marines shoes. This is why I hate our military because it takes ordinary people and teach them to hate when they go to war. As one mother said {" I sent the military a nice young man and they sent back a killer" Semper Fi, indeed. If Alf is reading these Blogs then he should understand where I am comming from. I see that we just killed a bunch more innocent civilans in Afgnanistan who were not doing anything hostile to anybody. Just gatherng for a memorial. But who cares about Afghans. We are Americans and the world should bow to us and if they don't we will send in the Marines to teach them respect. Semper Fi.
Roberto wrote on Aug 24, 2008 2:08 PM:Send these young men off to war and they become real men, stand up like men then have a bunch of sniveling whiners who won't stand up for our heroes. How disgusting. And they are heroes, in every sense of the word.
AWcryinoutloud wrote on Aug 24, 2008 2:36 PM:Chris: Try some Pepto Bismol. When I read your comments it helps me. Maybe it will work for you.
esteban wrote on Aug 24, 2008 6:22 PM:Chris, if it weren't for our military, you'd be a slave right now.
Chris wrote on Aug 25, 2008 10:33 AM:Pepto Bismol won't help me get over all the hatred that I see from my fellow Americans. Killing innocent people makes people heroes. That is sick.
AWcryinoutloud wrote on Aug 25, 2008 12:55 PM:To Chris: It was worth a try. Hate to see your intestines in a bind. Oh! "Killing innocent people makes people heroes" is sick? Then perhaps the insurgents in Iraq could use some Pepto Bismol, or the Taliban in Afghanistan, or geeze, maybe Saddam could have used some while he was mutilating his own people. Oh, I'm sorry, perhaps I shouldn't make references to Your heroes. American lives don't seem to take priority in your world. Like I said, try some Pepto Bismol.
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